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ABOUT THE CONTENTS OF THIS TRANSCRIPT: This telepathic channeling has been taken from transcriptions of the weekly study and meditation meetings of the Rock Creek Research & Development Laboratories and L/L Research. It is offered in the hope that it may be useful to you. As the Confederation entities always make a point of saying, please use your discrimination and judgment in assessing this material. If something rings true to you, fine. If something does not resonate, please leave it behind, for neither we nor those of the Confederation would wish to be a stumbling block for any.

CAVEAT: This transcript is being published by L/L Research in a not yet final form. It has, however, been edited and any obvious errors have been corrected. When it is in a final form, this caveat will be removed.

Thursday Meditation

September 27, 1979

(Carla channeling)

I am with this instrument. I greet you in the love and the light of the infinite Creator. I have not previously spoken with this group but have been asked to do so, in the name of the Creator, by the chief teacher of your group, the brothers and sisters of Hatonn.

We are attempting to transmit our name to this instrument, as we have used it before in other groups, but this transmission is, of course, very difficult as this instrument does not know our name.

We are of the constellations of what you know as [Ora,] and we call ourselves [Kasara.] We would like to share with you a little story, my friends, that we offer to you this evening in the humble hope that we might spark a thought or two in your minds that may help you in some way.

Once, my friends, there was a mountaineer and this mountaineer was a wanderer and he wandered up hill and down, many the day and many the night spent he [in] loneliness and enjoying the beauties of his scenery and enduring the hardships of all weathers. This mountaineer had but one desire and that was to find the perfect walking stick. For it was his belief that with a stout stick at his side, he could climb the highest mountain, traverse the longest distance, and always, without fail, keep a sure footing.

For years he tried and tried to find the right stick. He whittled on sticks, he carved on sticks. He traded sticks with others. But somehow, they never seemed to fit his hand just right or to hold him up just right. And one day, after many years of trying to find the right stick, he got tired of looking for something to lean on and decided that if he did not need a roof over his head or walls between himself and the winter, shelter between himself and the rain or anything but a hat between himself and the summer sun, that perhaps he did not need any stick, either.

And once he had found that he had all he needed in himself, then and only then did he become the true wanderer. Then and only then did he become truly happy. Satisfied at last that his purpose was not that of another and his needs not that of another, but that he was complete within himself.

We realize that in your culture it is not acceptable for a man to walk for a living, to live of the land, to have no money, and we do not encourage you to do this. We speak to you allegorically, my friends. What we are encouraging you to do is to leave off looking for the right walking stick in life. You did not come into this world to lean on others, to lean on ideas, to lean on possessions or to lean on preconceived ethics.

You came into this world a perfect creature and that perfection was rapidly overlaid by a complex system of intellectual limitations which were placed upon you by others. You then carefully continued the work of your parents, believed what they told you in good faith, and for your lifetime have been trying in good faith to live according to the precepts of people and ideas and ethics and ways of being that have been taught to you. These are your walking sticks, and none of them fit, do they?

No one else’s ideas will carry you through, no one else’s ethics can make you feel right if something is wrong, or wrong if something is right to you. Why spend so much of your life confused because of what others think? They may have traded you a walking stick, but you don’t have to have it. You don’t have to have any!

It is written in your holy works, my friends, “My rod and my staff shall comfort thee.” Yes, my friends, even if you walk through the valley of death, you have a rod, you have a staff. You have the Creator within you; you are part of a perfection that is the Creator. And that part of you is the only walking stick you will ever need.

You cannot get in touch with that part of yourself by any outer means; you cannot, even though you think you might, get in touch with that part of yourself by intellectually understanding the means of meditation and service to others. What is a walking stick for, my friends? It is for the steep places. When you need comfort, know that that comfort exists within you. Even if you walk in the valley of death, the Creator is with you. His rod and his staff shall comfort you. Stand on your own two feet, my friends. And in your spiritual path remember that the way of the mountaineer is the true way. Walking, going, journeying, seeking, that is all that there is to living. The rest is illusion!

I am of the consciousness of [Kasara.] I would like to attempt to transfer this contact, if I may, to another instrument.


(Carla channeling)

We have been attempting to contact the one known as B, but our vibration is very light, and we are not finding it easy to use the instrument known as B. We will once again touch with his being and see if he can pick us up, although we are indeed much weaker, shall we say, than the vibration of Hatonn or Laitos. I am [Kasara.]

(B channeling)

I am Kasara. My friends, it is important that you look to your spiritual growth. For, my friends, as I have already stated, (inaudible) is illusion. There are many times you will find that, indeed, possessions will help you along your path. But, my friends, I think it is also important to draw the line upon, shall we say, possessions. For, my friends, the pull is so strong that it may in turn engulf you.

As you know, (inaudible) meditation you will evolve to a state that you will, shall we say, be able to offer your services to many around you. It is also important that you realize (inaudible) of helping a great many people. Therefore, my friends, it is important that you develop yourself to a higher degree. The road is steep and long; but, my friends, well worth the trip!

It has been a great pleasure sharing your meditations, my friends. (Inaudible) or shall we say (inaudible) we are, shall we say, at your disposal at another time. Continue in your meditation, for it is the path to the Creator. There may be some experiences ahead of you all. I shall leave this instrument now. I am [Kasara.] I leave you in the name of our infinite Creator.


(Carla channeling)

I am Laitos, and I greet you also in the love and the light of the infinite Creator. If you would be patient with me at this time I would like to spend a few moments working with the newer channels. I would like to exercise the channel known as G at this time. I am Laitos.


I am again with this instrument. We will try once more with the one known as G, after requesting that she relax, for she is somewhat tense and therefore is having difficulty receiving our thoughts. Therefore, they are being reflected back into the group. And it is much easier to absorb our thoughts, even if they are not spoken, you each can receive them, as we say, subconsciously. We would once again work with the one known as G and attempt to say a few sentences through her, if she will relax. I am Laitos.


I am again with this instrument. We thank the one known as G and encourage her not to worry, if she has some days when she cannot pick us up, for there are days when one becomes very tense due to the happenings of the day, and therefore one is less able to receive our thoughts. It is a kind of talent which one has a knack for after awhile. But it takes some time to build up, and we will continue to work with her and thank her for the opportunity. We would like now to attempt to speak just a few words through the one known as M, if she would also relax. I am Laitos.


(M channeling)

I am Laitos. (Inaudible).


(Carla channeling)

I am again with this instrument. We are having very good contact with the one known as M. We ask that she refrain from analyzing our thoughts. We will tell her what our next two sentences were to be, so that she will know that she had our contact. We would have attempted to say, “What a privilege it was to use each new instrument, and that it is a great honor to welcome each new instrument.”

We will again attempt to contact the one known as M and speak just a few words further through her at this time. I am Laitos.

(M channeling)

I am Laitos. (Inaudible).


(Carla channeling)

I am again with this instrument. I am Laitos, and again I (inaudible) the one known as M. She is very close to making a breakthrough and being able to speak thoughts that she does not expect and that are original to her from us. Her main problem is in analyzing, and it is the breakthrough that we seek that will occur when she is able to speak our thoughts without attempting to discover whether or not they make sense. We are with you in love and love is a universal language, so that it is very difficult not to make sense, no matter what instructions or sentences we may give you. For there is almost no way that we can send you a thought which is not full of love in one way or another. We can only ask you to trust us as we train you in a service which will be more and more needed by your peoples as the new age begins. We thank you so much for your patience and we will close now through this instrument. I am known to you as Laitos, and I leave you in the love and light of the infinite Creator. Adonai.


I am Latwii, and I say to you greetings, my friends, in the love and the light of the infinite Father. As you say upon your planet, “Howdy, and how is everything with you?” We are very glad to see you this evening, and we are just very pleased to be able to speak with you. We have a very strong contact with this instrument, which we are attempting to mediate, so it will not be uncomfortable for this instrument. Unfortunately, we have a somewhat strong vibration. We are with this instrument. We are monitoring this communication. It is more comfortable to the instrument at this time. I am Latwii.

We truly are happy to be with you, and each of your vibrations gives us infinite pleasure as you sit about the room, miniature rainbows in what you think of as darkness but what we see as a beautiful violet glow at this time, due to the basic color of your vibrations, which is of a somewhat amethyst hue. We have come to answer questions at this time and would prefer to speak through the one known as Don, if he is willing to be of service at this time. We will attempt to transfer communications to him. I am known to you as Latwii.

(Don channeling)

I am with the instrument.

Carla: May I ask a couple of questions?


Carla: Where is Hatonn now?

Hatonn is in the creation. There has been no change in his location.

Carla: In the configuration of this sphere, in which he assumes the shape of a man and the vehicle of a ship, over what part of our sphere does he now reside?

Southeast Asia.

Carla: Thank you, Latwii. Is it for the same purpose as (inaudible)?


Carla: I see. Has there been any change?


Carla: I didn’t think so. When one has a person who comes to a group such as this one and is overenthusiastic, what is the most safe way of encouraging his ability to meditate and perhaps receive messages without opening him up to the problem of stray astrals which may mimic members of the Confederation?


Carla: Is there a general answer to that?


Information received by a channel is the information the channel desires to receive. The desire is what (inaudible) entertaining of the (inaudible). This desire then results in what the channel receives. We in no way wish to modify this process, for it is a natural process.

[If] you find that for your purposes you do not wish some communications to take place, we suggest that you discuss these possibilities with the individual. We have no control over this, for it is a matter of free will.

Carla: I see. Then there is no tried and true method of psychic self-defense that is general. It is completely a function of the honesty of the individual in his desire to seek. Is that correct?

There is no need, from our point of view for what you call self-defense, for all times an individual will bring to themselves (inaudible) therefore it’s part of a waste of time (inaudible) to defend (inaudible).

Carla: What if a person does not know what he seeks?

That does not matter. The individual seeks and finds (inaudible).

Carla: It is a subconscious method then, not a conscious one?

It can be either or both.

Carla: I see.

I shall tell a story. The child and an individual (inaudible) TV set seeks that which you don’t desire to watch, finds great pleasure in this program and [in] time grows to a state of mind (inaudible). In time, this seeking may become [analogous] to each of you who watch in joy (inaudible) program. This condition may exist (inaudible). Or the other type situation that you mentioned as being distasteful to you may exist, which was (inaudible) desire different programs than you desire. Which does not mean that programming that he desires (inaudible) will not satisfy the desires (inaudible). There is no such thing as bad seeking. There is only seeking. You will find that of what you are (inaudible).

Does this answer your question?

Carla: Fully. There is a problem that’s been bothering me for some time, and I really don’t know if you can answer it or not. But, crazy as it may seem, I was wondering about gravity. We have always been taught that gravity pulls things together and there has been some scientific evidence now that gravity is actually a repulsive force. Do you have any comments on that? Do we aid our spiritual understanding or is it merely part of the illusion?

I am in consultation for education.


This instrument is being given the impression of an egg partially submerged in liquid. This egg is surrounded by liquid, so is your planet surrounded by material which you know of as space.


Space has different densities. These densities are not a physical property as you know physical property. These densities are condensed out [of] space, and each has its peculiar properties. The thing that you call gravity in your particular density is a function of condensation of your density out of space. It is similar to a bubble being formed below the surface of a window.[1]

(Side one of tape ends.)

(Don channeling)

This bubble is an isolated system and unique in its environment. (Inaudible) this is a material of a totally different density. This is how planets are formed out of space. They are formed as submerged bubbles. Submerged planetary bubbles in space. Each has its particular properties because of its [antecedents] which is a function of what you would call its philosophy. Gravitational attraction, as you call it, which you experience, is the result of what you might call planetary philosophy, due to general configuration of mind, the population of your planet, both incarnate and discarnate. Certain level density, what you call physical matter, is condensed out of surrounding space, condensed in such a way, in such an intensity you might say, so as to reduce the intensity of gravity that you experience. All particles are condensed or pushed towards the center. This push or condensing force is philosophical in nature. A less intense philosophy would generate a less intense grip. Gravity is more an emotional thing than it is a physical thing in its origin. Your planet has a uniquely strong gravitation force. This is because of intense philosophical or emotional condensing action. Put in another way, the need for the dense physical experience, of those entities trapped in your vortexian experience, is such that they create the intense gravitational force that they now experience.

You can imagine consciousness being formed because of its like nature (inaudible) view (inaudible) across space (inaudible). The size and (inaudible) being a function of the general state of that consciousness. This then is what you are experiencing, when you experience gravitational force.

Carla: Can I pursue that a little further?


Carla: Can we assume then that each planetary entity is conscious or are we to assume that each planetary entity has a consciousness upon it which we would call living, as in living beings?

The consciousness is all the individualized consciousness that originally created the planet. In order to create a planet it is necessary to have condensation, shall we say, of consciousness. If consciousness is infinitely small, an infinitely small planet will be the result of this condensation. If consciousness as a group consciousness is large, shall we say, that numerous birds of a feather flock together so a large group consciousness will be formed, a relatively large planet will be formed. The planet is a result of the consciousness.

Carla: Thus, a large planet may not necessarily have a correspondingly heavy gravity as is thought in science, that the gravity would be dependent then on …

The gravity in your science is dependent on mass. Largeness or smallness is not related to mass, even in your science.

Carla: So you are saying that it is the density of the planet.

The density of the planet is the function of (inaudible) nature of the consciousness.

Carla: So when we are dealing with a planet like Saturn, which has been spoken of in other channelings, as well as ours, as being the ruling Council in this solar system, we are speaking of a very high consciousness, although the planet itself is quite large, is this correct?

There is no high or low consciousness! There is only consciousness!

Carla: Shall we say a consciousness more closely aligned with the original Thought of the Creator?

The original Thought of the Creator is that experience be sought. This Thought is being carried out all over the creation. Consciousness develops, anyway.

And this is the Thought of the Creator. It is also the original Thought of the Creator. Since we are at this time at the [earth] as we will be at all times or have at all times, density—shall we say ferocity of experience—is a function of that portion of consciousness, that, shall we say, amalgamates form, a sector of experience in what you call your reality. It is a physical planet. There are many, many planets that are not in your reality.

Carla: You just read my mind, that was my next question.

And exist for experiences at different levels.

Carla: Are they analogs of the physical planets in our system as we know them?


Carla: They are simply infinite?


Carla: I believe I am understanding a little more. If you are not too tired, I would like to know what relation that has to the Larsonian System. If you are, please say so.

Mathematical approach, Larson, is not considered a fact of consciousness. Larson’s mathematics are useful tools for bottling your physical reality. There will be no explanation total. It does not include formative force of consciousness. It is very difficult to use your language to express this. Consciousness in actuality is the motion of which Larson speaks. (Inaudible) of that motion or vibration is the philosophy of the consciousness of which we spoke.

Carla: Then the very basis of the Larsonian system, instead of motion, as he would call it physically, is consciousness metaphysically. Is there an analog to the space/time that motion is equal to physically in the metaphysical understanding of Larsonian work?

There is no space.

Carla: Is it light, perhaps, and love?

There is only consciousness, consciousness which creates the illusion of space and time. There are properties of consciousness. The emotional property called love, the physical property called light. They are one and the same thing, but they are each two representations of the manifestations of consciousness. When this is fully realized, you know everything, there is nothing else to know.

Carla: Do they hold a reciprocal relationship?

You mean more love, less light?

Carla: Is the state of being in unity a love and light in equal portions, forever expanding outward?


Carla: Is less love and more light then the beginning of the great cycle of experience, causing intense vibrations?

I am trying to communicate to the instrument …


Love is light and light is love. They are consciousness. Light … this is difficult to express in your language.

Carla: We understand.

There is no reciprocal relation between love and light. They are identical.

Carla: Is this also true of space and time?

Space and time are mathematically reciprocal. This is meaningless in reality. They are mathematically reciprocal and this is a very useful tool in the building of mathematical molds, what you call your reality.

Carla: When a healer or metal bender uses his ability for action at a distance effect, is he temporarily leaving the mathematical and physical world of space/time and entering the metaphysical world of love?

He was never in the forementioned world but always in the latter, as is everyone.

Carla: What is his tool for bringing …?

His tool is consciousness. It is the only Creator. It is in your language an emotional thing. It may be generated through realization which is a function, usually in your society, of meditation. Meditation is necessary for this, in your society, because of an intense distraction from truth. You become re-linked with truth through meditation. This (inaudible) creates what you might call an emotional response. If this can be properly triggered to radiate from the microcosm then this radiating wave can affect physical material as you know it by rearranging basic configuration or vibration. It is not important as to how this mechanism works. What is important is first to understand the state of mind required to create a change. That state is a state of what you would call intense love. That is not necessarily a conscious state. It may be developed very easily by anyone through the process of meditation.

This is a process of cutting yourself off from those distractions you find in your particular section of (inaudible) consciousness and realigning your consciousness with that which is in the outer proportions of your sphere of experience. With other words, your planet and those [about] it are condensed from the sea of space which surrounds it. Sea of space is a real solid material, just as solid as your physical world. It just happens to be a different density experience. You may tap this through meditation and use that which is not, shall we say, basic vibration of your planet. It’s difficult; the instrument understands it and cannot express it.

Carla: There are then no mathematical ways of describing how consciousness in a state of intense love can enter into the mathematically described universe of space/time. Is that correct?

You can only measure the effects of this.

Carla: You cannot pinpoint its point of entry, is that right?

The point of entry is the photon … is the photon. The intensity of the vibration which you identify as the photon is the point of entry, is the entry, is in fact the state of consciousness.

Carla: Then the link between love and light, love in a sense of consciousness and light in a sense of the reciprocal system, is the photon.

Love is the consciousness that is the vibration

Carla: Yes.

Light is another word for that vibration.

Carla: Yes, I see.

You are looking at the same thing, calling it two different things; it is the photon.

Carla: I am very happy to hear that. Thank you very much.

Are there any other questions?


We apologize for a lack of ability to communicate certain concepts which are very difficult in your language whether (inaudible) terminology include these concepts (inaudible). But considerable work might be possible to arrange your language in such a way to make these points very clear. In such a short period of time it’s very difficult to do.

If there are no more questions, we will terminate our communication.

Carla: We thank you.

It’s been a very great privilege to be of service to you. Adonai vasu.


[1] Carla: The word represented in the transcript as “window” may have been “meniscus.” Don was describing the idea of a bubble caught at the surface layer of a liquid condensate.

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