Carla and Don were interviewed in 1976 for WIEL's UFO series.

The exact date of this interview is unknown.

Coming up in Part 3 of our series in just a moment, Bob Craft and I talk with the most knowledgeable of our guests on the subject of the UFO phenomenon. In case you’ve just joined us, you’re listening to WIEL Newsmaker 76, and our topic today is UFOs and psychic phenomena. In Part 3, our guests are Don Elkins and Carla Rueckert. This is E.J. Clark speaking.

About our guests: Don Elkins is a former college professor from the University of Louisville. He is currently a commercial airline pilot based out of Louisville with one of the nation’s major airlines. He is regarded in some circles as one of the twelve most knowledgeable persons in this country on the subject of UFOs. Also with us today is Miss Carla Rueckert. Miss Rueckert has assisted Don for many years and brings to this program a working knowledge in UFO research and mental telepathy.

The following WIEL news presentation is being brought to you solely as a news interview for your enjoyment, and does in no way intend to convey or reflect the views of WIEL management, its staff, or its sponsors. And now: Part 3 of UFOs and Psychic Phenomena.

Mr. Elkins, what are we up against when we speak of UFOs? Is it a phenomenon? Is it real? Is it something we’re projecting ourselves? What do we mean when we speak of UFOs?

Well, a UFO is an object that you can’t identify. What we’re interested in is the group of objects that have a specific purpose with respect to Earth at this time. There is a general contact that has been going on for approximately the past thirty years. It’s a contact both extraterrestrial and extra dimensional in nature. And it is a planned contact involving more than one other civilization. It is occurring now in a relatively large magnitude. There are approximately 100 sightings every 24 hours around the world.

And this contact as I said is planned, it’s extraterrestrial and extra dimensional in nature, and we earthlings are the recipients of something that, not only we did not expect, but for the most part we do not understand—it takes considerable study to understand it. None of us fully understands it. I think possibly I and several of the people I’m working with have a fairly good working knowledge of what’s happening.

What’s happening is extremely strange from an Earthman’s point of view. But look at it this way: if we were living in 1876 instead of 1976, and we were suddenly plopped down right into the middle of our 1976 society, would we understand anything that’s happening? No. Everything would look fantastic and beyond belief. Well, what’s happening is that we are having contact with civilizations much, much farther advanced than that mere one hundred years.

Let’s go back in time to where you first got involved with UFOs, unidentified flying objects, and the general phenomenon. Can you bring us from that point when you first got interested, what happened, and bring us up to date up to now.

In 1947, when Kenneth Arnold saw his flight of UFOs in the northwestern United States and the UFO was dubbed the flying saucer, I was seventeen. I was taking lessons at the Elkins-Mantel Flying School of Bowman Field in Louisville. In January 1948, Captain Mantel, who was half-owner of the school was killed while chasing a big UFO seen over Fort Knox, that was a real UFO, not a-

Was that a so-called mothership?

Ah, not to my knowledge. It was not a mothership. It was a large disc, and this of course stimulated my interest considerably. At that time, I started reading as much as I could find on the subject, and I studied an entire range of paranormal phenomena, extrasensory perception, you might say, because this seemed to have a link with the UFO phenomena.

Through the 50’s and 60’s, at that time I was physics professor at University of Louisville, I started experimentation in communication with UFOs using some data that had come out of the early UFO phenomena in the 1950’s. That was simply that most of the UFOs contactees, let’s say alleged contactees because people didn’t know whether to believe they had actually had face-to-face contact with the UFOnauts or not. Most of the contactees reported telepathic communication, mind-to-mind communication with the entity that came out of the ship.

Well, research into this, and work with the man who came from Detroit who’d been involved in the same type of research, resulted in what we considered a valid telepathic experiment linking the UFO occupants with our experimental group in a two-way communication. This we were able to do here in Louisville in 1962, and we have continued it to the present. Now, this is not unusual, really; there are groups of people all over the world involved in the same thing to one degree or another. I’ve sat in with groups in a dozen different cities over the United States and have read material from groups outside the United States. We were able to put together a general picture of what was transpiring with respect to the UFOs. There was no way to prove it in the 60’s other than that it made sense and all the pieces fit. Recently, in the 70’s, at least a partial proof has shown up in that certain people have received communications in a more direct manner.

Are these contactees? Is that what they’re called? They call them contactees?

Contactees, yes. For instance, Dr. Andrija Puharich of Ossining, New York–he’s a medical doctor with 56 patents in medical electronics, very brilliant man, has been a consultant at NASA during his investigation of Uri Geller in 1972. He was contacted by a UFO source, and the initial contacts were on his cassette tape recorder. The tape recorder buttons would go down as if pushed by invisible fingers. The tape recorder would run, and if one of us played back, there’d be a message from a UFO on it.

And what was the message?

Well, that I’ll get into in a minute, but he got dozens of these messages, and he published them in a book called Uri, by Andrea Puharich. The messages that he received on his cassette tape recorder matched very closely the information that we had received in our telepathic experiment. I have been working with Puharich since 1974, and we’re in complete agreement as to the objective of the UFO phenomena and in general what is going to happen in the future with respect to UFOs.

Who are we talking about? Who are these people, if you say they are extraterrestrial, extra dimensional? Are they from a certain planet, or certain–do we talk of planes in this area? Certain planes or certain dimensions?

It seems that the universe is made up not only of the physical material that we’re used to, as the physical world and the other physical planets around us, but also of what you might call other planes of existence just like we have several channels available on the television set. We just happen to be on channel 3; you can tune in channel 5, 7, 9, you can get other people doing other things. Well, as strange as this seems, this seems to be the way the universe really works. Dr. J. Allen Hynek, who was chief consultant to the Air Force from 1948 to 1969, and just this week there was an interview in People magazine with Dr. Hynek, and he mentioned the same thing, oddly enough; that he believes it to be an extra dimensional thing. He’s not saying [this] about the extraterrestrial [part], but we’re quite sure it’s both.

When you talk of dimensional, does this mean it occupies the same space and time somewhere else? Is that what you mean?

Let’s say that somewhere else is hard to define because, when you add dimensions of space or time to those we recognize you complicate the basic philosophy, so that we really can’t define past the three dimensional space [and] one dimensional time concept that we have. But there is considerable evidence, not only in the UFO phenomenon, but in modern science. Modern orthodox science indicates that we do have some extra dimensions to work with.

Does that mean that you can travel back in time, or forward in time, through these dimensions?

That is basically correct, and there is considerable evidence to show that the way many of the UFOs get here are as time travelers. Instead of having to cross the vast distances of space that we measure, they do something in time and get here almost instantly, if not instantly.

From where are they coming from?

Other places in space and time.

Are they occupying the same space as we occupy in this world that we call Earth?

No, not necessarily. We know of one group living in Spain, that has been living in Spain since 1952, [who has] told us that they come from a planet approximately, let’s see, I think it’s somewhere around 368,000 light years [from Earth]. They’ve found it on our star maps; we can pick it out. The star around which their planet revolves… they told considerable [things] about their planet, primarily through letters that they mail. This sounds…

Not the way we would mail a letter.

They drop the letters in the post box, and they’re delivered to people in Spain. Now let me give you a little history of this. They’ve been living there since ’52. They started mailing letters in ’65. And originally, the people receiving the letters, an architect, an engineer, and someone fairly high up in politics, thought it was a hoax. But then after having the material in the letters carefully checked by some of the top scientific community they found the material in the letters was so accurate, and in fact it was an extrapolation of our science in many cases, that it would have to be done by a top echelon [entity] in the scientific community or government. So they decided it must be a CIA intelligence test to see if they could fool people into believing there were extraterrestrials mailing letters in Spain.

Now, this broke up when they got a letter saying, “We know that you don’t believe that we are from the planet Ummo (and they’d given the name of the planet U-M-M-O) we know you don’t believe this, so we will bring our craft into your atmosphere over the estate of a certain person on Thursday morning at 10 a.m.” So they replied, they said “Well, sure, we’ll go out and take a camera.” So they walked out to the estate that morning. And all of these letters had been signed with a thumbprint, and in the thumbprint there was—it was a human thumbprint—and in the thumbprint there was a strange “H” with a vertical line through the center.

Which is the same symbol that has been seen by UFOs that have been photographed in Spain, is this not correct?

Well, this is what showed up on Thursday.

This is a result of this? This is what we’re into now? It’s very interesting.

What happened, on Thursday, this ship came down, and hovered, and it had the H symbol on the bottom, and they took a picture of it, and it flew away.

OK, now, why would an extraterrestrial, obviously a civilization of far advanced beings than what we know of, why would they communicate with us here on Earth by sending us letters? I don’t understand that.

Well, they use a lot of techniques. The primary technique is telepathic. Secondary techniques include letter writing, direct impression of electronic devices such as radios, television sets. They use telephones. They activate Puharich’s cassette tape recorder; they send him a code on a double wristwatch that he wears, and lot of this is explained, partially at least, in the book Uri, U-R-I, by Andrea Puharich, which is available as a Bantam paperback. This has been going on for some time and is not widely disseminated simply because it’s very difficult to believe, unless you put a lot of time in in checking it out and find out it’s actually happening.

Now you ask why do they do such a strange thing? Why don’t they land on the White House lawn and say, “Take me to your leader?” As I said, the entire program is a carefully planned contact with a primitive peoples; we are the primitive peoples. Now, how do you go about contacting a primitive people that have no idea of reality? That’s us.

Why do you say we have no idea of reality? Reality as we know it, or reality as they know it, or as it is?

As reality really is. We have no idea what’s really going on.

Are you saying that our concept of what we see and what we call as reality is somewhat of an illusion? What we really project and what we see is all an illusion either manufactured by some other being or some other intelligence, or what?

I’m not saying that; I’m just saying that our senses and understanding and maturity is so primitive, so limited, that we do not understand what’s around us. Just as an ant, crawling across the floor, has a totally different concept of his reality than we have.

This is–oh, you want to say something?

Well, it’s just that, really, our scientists know that what we see is not real. They’ve told us that over and over again in the 20th century: that everything is actually energy and vibration patterns, and that an atom is mostly space, and they’re not really sure about the particles. The particles may just be energy too. So that the chair I’m sitting on and the microphone you’re holding in your hand, looks very solid, these things look solid, it is actually an illusion, in that it is not actually solid, but it is a pattern of vibration.

And that it also has an aurora around it, I hear–a glow, is that how they describe it?

Well, the Kirlian Photography, I think you’re talking about, shows up the auric glow around living things primarily, people and plants and animals.

I’d like to ask you something now about the time traveling thing. Are you familiar with H. G. Wells, The Time Machine? Now this is science fiction, but it does relate to what we’re talking about. In the fact that they do talk about the 4th dimension in there, and he does travel back in time and to the future. Now does this relate to what you’re talking about in any way? This novel?

Not precisely. I saw the movie [chuckles]…not precisely what I’m talking about because the most modern approach to physics indicates that for every dimension of space there’s a dimension of time, at a very minimum, that we are aware of. What we call the space side of the universe, and there’s a reciprocal relation in which there is a time side in which time has what we consider to be the properties of space, so that we can move in time as we move in space. And space would appear to have the properties of time. We’re just locked into one continuum here, and are experiencing a very fine line of the universe.

Actually, understanding the space/time relationship of the UFOs is not as important as understanding what they’re here for. What there here for is of primary importance to everyone on earth.

Why is not more emphasis being placed on finding out what they’re here for? If this, as some writers would have us to believe, is a message by an extraterrestrial life from some other civilization out in space, a message of surveillance, something of this sort, that is of such magnitude, why is nobody really, or apparently no one government body or government of any country on Earth, taking this problem very seriously?

Because governments are made up of people, and the phenomenon is so removed from those in government, that they can’t get interested in it. It’s a difficult thing to handle. We have people in universities studying very obscure things, and we’ve got experts in nuclear physics, but very few people in government who are doing research in nuclear physics simply because they don’t have time and they don’t understand it, and they don’t have the time to put in to understand it. It’s something you have to grow up with and work at for a long time.

The same is true of the UFO phenomenon. It takes dedication and a lot of work to understand it. Now the problem is that there has been a great controversy for many years as to whether the UFOs are real. Now this was planned. The entire UFO contact has been planned by the contactor to act this way so that only people who have an intense interest in the phenomenon would pay enough attention to it, put enough time in on it to figure it out…

So you’re calling it the “contactor?” [inaudible] for now anyway. Ok now, why is the contactor deliberately deceiving the public, or having things occur to where other people would say, “I don’t believe that; it’s hogwash.”

It is done so that a person can believe or disbelieve, depending on his orientation. It is carefully planned to create some interest among lots of people, intense interest among a few people, and no interest among the people that don’t want to be bothered by it.

How would you describe the people who have an intense interest on this subject? Would, as some writers would have us believe, people with psychic powers, people with possibly powers of ESP or telepathic powers or somebody like this [have this intense interest?] Is this what we’re talking about?

No, we’re talking about just about any kind of person you would want to name. We’ve got intensely interested people ranging from, as I say, a medical doctor, to a street cleaner. I’ve met intensely interested people in all walks of life, with all orientations, both with so-called psychic powers and with absolutely none. There are just certain people who are interested, and these people followed up and know a little more about it than others. The investigating organizations in the United States–and there are four major ones, APRO, MUFON, CUFOS and NICAP. I won’t go into them right now, but they are peopled by a large variety of members, and most of their consulting panel are university professors.

When you get right down to it the everyday Joe, when he wakes up every morning, he doesn’t think about UFOs, and if somebody does mention the fact that UFOs may exist, he just laughs because he cannot conceive in his own mind in his everyday simple existence that something of this magnitude could happen. Now is that basically the problem that people have, and that’s why they do not understand these things that you’re talking about right now? Because I’m sure there are people out there who are very, very skeptical about the things you are saying?

Well, I’m sure there are a lot of people who are very skeptical about this. They have every right to be skeptical, because it is so anomalistic, so totally removed from anything in our previous experience in the history of the planet, that has been very well recorded anyway. What we’re having occur here is a big change in the evolution of our planet Earth, and we’re getting a little help from our friends. And they’re doing it with much more intelligence than we would use if we landed on their planet. They’re doing it in a way that will make it a relatively easy transition for the population of this planet. There are several things that are going to happen in the future that are going to wake people up on the planet to the fact that something very unusual is happening. We’re quite sure of this and we’ve had recent indication that…

Can you name some of them?

Well, you see people walking around on the street with a sign saying “The End is Near.”

Yeah, we’ve seen that in the past. Right, in almost any major city somebody would be seen doing that type thing.

…with a long robe on. Well, I don’t want to be one of those types, but what comes out of the research–and this is strictly from an objective point of view—I’m just saying now what we have discovered. I’m not being a prophet of doom or painting a sign, but what comes out of the research, one of the major points, is that our planet is going through a cyclical transition and that we can expect an extreme change in the surface conditions of our planet. This change will be brought about by an energy release that comes from inside the planet and results in earthquake phenomena, volcanic eruptions and weather changes due to the energy release in the oceans which will change the warm streams, the gulf stream, etc. which create weather patterns. This activity has already started and should continue over the next few years in an increasing rate, so if you’ll just watch for a few volcanic eruptions and earthquakes.

Okay, now while we’re just getting into what you just said relates to some things that have just happened recently. China has had two major earthquakes, the Philippines…


Okay, three, thank you for correcting me, and the Philippines have had two.

Well, these were major, and of course there were a lot of aftershocks, and the Guadalupe Volcano is letting loose now.

Is this all the same thing that you were talking about?

We have had, through some very specific contact information, a friend of mine who is working on this has been given an exact time and coordinates of some of the earthquakes.

Are these something that would be related ahead of time to some major catastrophe, or disaster, earthquake or whatever it might be?

Well, the problem is, right now, nobody is paying any attention to us crackpots who are saying this is coming about because they say we are getting our information from a source they know that doesn’t exist. And consequently, nobody is going to pay much attention until we have quite a series of these which we’re told, through the communication techniques that we’re using, are going to occur.

How long a time period are we talking about? Are we talking about this year? Are we talking about next year, ten years from now, how long is this?

Well, within the next few years, let’s say, we should have in the neighborhood of eighty major earthquakes between now and say 1983 or so. These earthquakes and many volcanic eruptions will, as I say, be a natural process that our planet is undergoing, and our visitors know about this.

How do they know about this? Have they surveyed our planet with some of their particular technology that they could pick up a change in the planet’s surface, or into the core of the planet where they would know, where we would not know, that something is developing down there? Or something is coming about where our seismologists or whatever person might be into that field would not know, geologists or whatever?

Yeah. They’ve known this for some time, a great length of time. They’ve been running surveys for a number of years. Their techniques have nothing to do with what we would consider seismological techniques or geological investigations. They use totally different techniques. Their reasons for making these investigations are totally different than anything that we would consider scientific.

I’d like to ask you something now. Okay, I want to pose a question or a prediction maybe, or statement. These earthquakes do happen. Something major does happen on the earth and it does change. Now how do the UFOs relate to what’s happening? How do they–do they help us; do they hurt us? What will they do?

They’re definitely here to help us absolutely 100% totally. They are going to help in an unexpected way. They’re going to help us in a real sense, but it is very difficult to understand what they consider help because…

You say “unexpected way…”

Simply because our philosophy for the most part does not encompass their concept of help. Their concept of help has nothing to do with our concept of help.

In other words, let’s just, you know, take anything for an example. Say if there was a major catastrophe or earthquake that would happen that would rock, let’s say just for, you know, the sake of an example, one whole continent, and it wreaked havoc everywhere. They would not come down and offer any assistance? We’re not talking about this kind of help, right?

No, we’re not. Not initially anyway, there may be some general landings considerably after the havoc but possibly up to two years after major…

Why that long?

Because these people being matured, you might say, far past the level of man on Earth realize what’s going on on Earth, and what’s going on on Earth is not just a place where we live and work and eat and have a good time if we can…

Are you saying this is all preplanned by someone else rather than us? In other words, what is happening is the normal evolving of things here on Earth by some other intelligence. Is this what you’re saying?

Not exactly. The evolution is taking place quite normally and naturally. The problems involved in the evolution such as earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, that sort of thing–those problems are not exactly normal. They’re an outcropping of what has been going on on Earth for centuries. And, this is going to sound very far out, but I’ll just lay it right out on the line. You can take it or leave it. This is, and I’ll say this, that we get this information from the UFO source. It’s not anything I’ve made up. I can’t vouch for it as being absolutely the nth fact. I can’t say it’s absolutely true, but I’ll just say that we do get this information.

That is, people on Earth are living through an experience of development. They’re developing and growing and maturing in a mental sense. Now, planet Earth is not a very checked out planet as far as the people are concerned. We have a very confused population on this planet. If you’ll step back and look at what’s going on here, you’ll see that it’s a rather confused state of mind. We have an awful lot of wars. We have an awful lot of killing, fighting, bad stuff going on. Well, the UFO source says that every planet that’s inhabited is inhabited for one purpose: to create a catalyst for the growth of man so that people can mature into what you might call the “Godlike beings” that they should be.

[Intermisson music]

On WIEL Newsmaker 76 today, you’ve been listening to Part 2 and Part 3 of our series on UFOs and psychic phenomena. Today WIEL News has presented a full hour on these subjects. Our guests in Part 2 were again, for a second week, Larry Ellison and Bill Terry. In Part 3 our guests were Don Elkins and Carla Rueckert. All of our guests are from Louisville where this program was prerecorded. Listen in next week for Part 4 on this series of UFOs and psychic phenomena. Next Sunday, we bring the final part of this series, but the program will run at a different time. Next Sunday at 7:00 pm immediately following ABC News. We also invite you to be listening next Sunday for another addition of WEIL Newsmaker 76 when WIEL News Director Ron Boone returns to this program to discuss items of community interest with another guest. For E. J. Clark, this is Bob Craft speaking for WIEL Newsmaker 76, a presentation of WIEL News.

The following WIEL News presentation is being brought to you solely as a news interview for your enjoyment and does in no way intend to convey or reflect the views of WIEL management, staff, or its sponsors.

Good Evening, and welcome to Insight, a special presentation of WIEL News. This evening we bring you the conclusion of our series on UFOs and psychic phenomena. This is E. J. Clark along with Bob Craft. Last week in Part 2 and Part 3 of our series, we move from discussions of specific and isolated UFO and psychic incidents in Part 2 to the broad realm of purpose, reason, and possible ultimate reality of the UFO phenomena in Part 3.

Similar discussions will be brought out in here in Part 4 of our conclusion to this series. Our guests again for the second week are Donald Elkins and Carla Rueckert. About our guests Mr. Elkins is a former college professor from the University of Louisville. He currently is a commercial airline pilot with one of the nation’s major airlines, and he is based out of Louisville. He has been studying the UFO phenomena for a great many years now and is regarded in some circles as one of the 12 most knowledgeable persons in this country on the subject of UFOs. Miss Rueckert has been working with Mr. Elkins since 1962 and brings to this program a working knowledge on psychic and UFO research.

We begin with Bob Craft posing the first question. And now, Part 4 of UFO.


I’d like to ask you something now. Okay, I want to pose a question, or a prediction, or a statement. These earthquakes do happen; something major does happen on the Earth, and it does change. Now, how do the UFOs relate to what’s happening? How do they—will they help us, will they hurt us, what will they do?

They’re definitely here to help us, 100% totally. They’re going to help in an unexpected way. They’re going to help us in a real sense, but it is very difficult to understand what they consider help, because…

You say, unexpected way.

Simply because our philosophy, for the most part, does not encompass their concept of help. Their concept of help has nothing to do with our concept of help.

In other words, let’s just, you know, take anything for an example. Say if there was a major catastrophe or earthquake that would happen that would rock, let’s say, just for, you know, for the sake of example, one whole continent and it wreaked havoc everywhere. They would not come down and offer any assistance. We’re not talking about this kind of help, right?

No, we’re not. Not initially anyway–there may be some general landings considerably after the havoc but possibly up to two years after major…

Why that long?

Because these people being matured, you might say, far past the level of man on Earth realize what’s going on on Earth, and what’s going on on Earth is not just a place where we live and work and eat and have a good time if we can…

Are you saying this is all preplanned by someone else rather than us? In other words, what is happening is the normal evolving of things here on Earth by some other intelligence. Is this what you’re saying?

Not exactly. The evolution is taking place quite normally and naturally. The problems involved in the evolution such as earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, that sort of thing, those problems are not exactly normal. They’re an outcropping of what has been going on on Earth for centuries. And, this is going to sound very far out, but I’ll just lay it right out on the line. You can take it or leave it. This is, and I’ll say this, that we get this information from the UFO source, it’s not anything I’ve made up. I can’t vouch for it as being absolutely the nth fact. I can’t say it’s absolutely true, but I’ll just say that we do get this information. That is, people on Earth are living through an experience of development. They’re developing and growing and maturing in a mental sense.

Now, planet Earth is not a very checked out planet as far as the people are concerned. We have a very confused population on this planet. If you’ll step back and look at what’s going on here, you’ll see that it’s a rather confused state of mind. We have an awful lot of wars. We have an awful lot of killing, fighting, bad stuff going on. Well, the UFO source says that every planet that’s inhabited is inhabited for one purpose: to create a catalyst for the growth of man so that people can mature into what you might call the “Godlike beings” that they should be, and we’re just children here on Earth who are going through a growing up stage.

Due to what you might call a lack of attunement of thought on this planet we’re going to have a little trouble making the end of what’s called “a cycle of evolution.” And at the end of the cycle of evolution, which is happening right now, because of a mis-tuning of thought on the planet, we’re going to experience some bad effects. So the UFOs aren’t going to do anything but watch because this is a training technique. The don’t look at death as we look at death because they realize that everybody lives throughout all time. You just change, you might say, change dimensions.

Is this where reincarnation and hypnotists that regress people age-wise, like Larry Allison, that we talked about in Part 2 of our series, and Part 1. Is that where this comes in? And if so, I have to ask this question. Where does God fit in and religion fit in with what you’re talking about? Because I know people out there are thinking the same question as I am right now, and that is if these people are from another planet, then there has to be a supreme being somewhere that made everything. It didn’t just happen overnight. Now, can you answer that?

Yeah, this is a little hard to take too, but, as I say, I’m repeating what I get from the communications, and these communications are not just the ones that I get with the 100 people that I’ve worked with as telepathic receivers but also from all other sources. We’ve sort of condensed it all out. The UFO source says that the concept of God, or the Creator, or the Original Thought, was a thought, purely and simply, a thought of pure love which created everything that there is throughout the entire universe, and they say that the Creator divided himself into an infinite number of parts so that he is everything that exists.

In the universe, right?

Everything in the universe is made up of what you would call God or the Creator, so that each individual that you see: each ant, each fly, each tree, stone, rock, anything that you see, is a part of this Creator, and it all has intelligence. And it is all experiencing on its own in an infinite number of ways, and in this way he has been able to experience an infinite number of things. And we, as his parts here in this particular small speck of dust in the universe are somewhat out of line with the Original Thought, which was the thought of total and pure love and complete service.

If you look around the planet and look at what’s not man-made, and what’s not man, you’ll notice that everything acts in service to everything else. For instance, the sun warms us and grows our crops; the trees turn our carbon dioxide back into oxygen so that we can breathe; the clouds form and rain on our land, so that we can have everything. Everything works in service except there seems to be something out of kilter with man and some of the animals, and perhaps the animals are a little out of kilter because of man.

Well, they say that planet Earth has simply gotten off the track, and the people of planet Earth have simply gotten off the track with respect to the original plan of the Creation. And, as we go through our evolution of mind, as we find our way back to the Original Thought, we go through these cycles of transition, and that’s a little difficult to explain. But we are terminating a cycle now, and we are going to experience a little problem because of our mis-alignment of thought.

Are you saying that we’re not morally performing to a certain standard that we should be performing to, as a people? And Earth people at that. Not being a nationalist, just speaking as a person of Earth?

That’s basically right, but we’re not being punished for it. We’re just caught in our own trap. We have done the wrong thing. We have walked along a certain path and seen the quicksand and just walked into it, and now we’re jumping up and down in the quicksand and going down, when all we have to do is reach over to one side and pull ourselves out. We’re sort of an ignorant people here in that we are doing the wrong thing, and there is a good reason for the UFO source acting in the way it does, so that their contact is very limited. They have to act that way so we will get the most benefit from this training process that we’re going through.

I want to say one thing. We’re back on “them” again as opposed to thinking of ourselves, what we were talking to a few minutes ago. Now, you say that these people represent only good to us. Now we know that there, if a person will believe in unidentified flying objects, has been a surveillance for some thirty odd years. This program has deliberately not dealt with types, sizes, shapes, or anything, colors, what have you, regarding the UFOs because of the simple reason that this has been dealt with in books, also in other programs, and we’re trying to get away from that. This is not the point of this program. We’re trying to get to the meat of the subject, or what we hope is to the meat or the intent of what UFOs are all about.

Now if these people are representing good, and they have been watching us for 30 years or whatever, and you can explain that in just a second, why has it taken so long, and what is the final goal? Are they going to make themselves known so everybody can see them, so everybody can say, “yes, I see this thing, because it’s landed here at one of our airports “or something like that? Is this going to happen?

Well, the final goal is a little different than any of that. One of the reasons they act like they do—that they don’t come in and tell us what to do, is very similar to your actions if you had neighbors who were continually squabbling and fighting and hitting each other. You wouldn’t feel it your part to go over and walk in and say “Here, quit that. Don’t fight, don’t yell at each other; don’t hit each other; don’t hurt each other.” You’d probably sit back in your living room and shake your head and say “well, I wish I didn’t have those neighbors.”

Why not, if I had something to offer to them, some suggestion, to say “Hey, why don’t you do this or that, and you might get along a little bit better.”? Something that they didn’t know and were projecting this as to the UFO Creator, whatever, we’re calling him, as opposed to we, the human being which can’t seem to get along amongst ourselves, amongst our country, amongst our whole being as a world.

Well, there’s a problem with that, you see.You’re just a next door neighbor to the guy, and if you go over and tell him anything you want to tell him, he may listen and he may not, because he doesn’t feel very much awe of you. But if they set down on the White House lawn and said “Hey guys. Let me tell you. It’s all wrong, and this is the way that you should really do things.” Then people would either, if they hadn’t shot them out of the air already, which would be very likely.

Is that possible for us to destroy a UFO, or have any UFOs been destroyed?

No, but it’s extremely possible for people to try to, which, of course, is not really desirable either. They don’t really want to draw fire even if it doesn’t hurt them. Sure, but if they did land and if they did talk to us then we would be in the position of possibly thinking of them as gods and this is something they want very, very much want not to happen.

The reason they don’t want that to happen is simply because that breaks up our training program. The only way you really learn something. It’s like coming in and giving the answers to the test before you’ve taken your final exam. This is a training program we’re going through on Earth that we have voluntarily come into you might say, and they’re not going to mess up this schoolroom until it’s absolutely necessary.

Back in biblical times the people saw strange things in the skies, and I’m sure that they landed and thought that they were gods, things like that. Erich Von Daniken covers that in his book quite a bit, but Don, we’d like to know what you think of that in relationship to your theory on UFOs. Can you tell me?

Well, no I can’t because I don’t really have any information about it. What I’ve been telling you I have a lot of information on and a lot of experimental work has been done on it. All I can do would be to guess, like Von Daniken does about what happened.

Well, that’s good enough. Guess. Is this not what you said earlier a few minutes ago that if they came down, landed right there on the White House lawn and said, “Hey, you guys are doing it all wrong. You ought to be doing it this way because we know, we’re more advanced and, you know, we know what you should be doing.” We would look up and say “It’s God.” Is that not what some of the myths in the past have eluded to that possibly with the Greeks and other cultures that people with lightning bolts and all that kind of thing, were actually gods or what we called them, gods. That’s the very thing I was trying to ask.

That’s a very best guess. In fact, some of the communications I’ve been exposed to in various parts of the United State have spoken specifically about that and indicated that that type of phenomenon would not be occurring again until it was absolutely necessary simply because the contacts were totally misunderstood. The contact program is totally different now. That’s one of the reasons why it’s so elusive.

Okay, the were floating around up there, and they said “Hey, let’s go down and make contact.” The people were very primitive; they didn’t understand it; and the UFO people went back up into the sky and said they would wait until later, and maybe later is getting here, right?

Well, they knew when later was going to be. You see, the cycle is well fixed, just like the rotation of our planet around the sun and the rotation of our galactic system. They knew when “now” was going to be.

Is their time the same as our time? Or our dimension?

No. But they were able to analyze our cyclical time. Now, not all of these people come from the same place, or are working together, or know what our time is. There are passers by, UFOs land quite often, that are not part of this group that has the contact program going.

Are these people from different planets—from different galaxies way out in space?

Yes. This is the best guess that they are from different planets, but it also seems that they’re most possibly in the same physical dimension that we’re in. In other words, if we went to their planet in one of our primitive rockets we would find them, and we’d be able to shake hands with them if they knew how to shake hands.

Now, does that account for the different types, colors, shapes, whatever, that people have claimed when they’ve seen a UFO, whether it be a cigar shape, whether it be a disk shape, whether it be a UFO with something with some sort of light on the bottom or some antenna on the top, or something like that?

Just take a look on our planet. Say you were a space man and you landed here and you looked at our airplanes and automobiles for about a day, and you’d say “Well, obviously they haven’t developed mass production because everything is different.” If you lined up the people that live here on Earth and looked at everything from an eight-foot fuzzy wuzzy to a pigmy and Chinese and a midget, you would say “These people couldn’t all come from the same planet, they’re too different in their looks.” But I will say this, that a very large percentage of them, over 90%, have two arms, two legs, five fingers, and a mouth nose and ears.

Do they look like us?

14% of the ones that have been contacted on Earth–and there are over 300 of these contacts–look enough like us that you could pass one on the street and never notice, never look twice. They look exactly like us.

I have a question about time, and I want to ask you if you can answer it. I don’t know if you can or not. Okay, we’re living in 1976. Okay, in 1234 A.D. was…Is 1976 going on in 1234 A.D. in a dimension of time that you’re talking about? Is that the way it’s set up? In other words, is 1234 happening in the past right now as in the future? Am I getting confusing here or what?

I don’t think I can answer that question because I think our philosophy is too limited to understand it. I’d say the answer is probably yes and no, and they’re both probably absolutely correct, and they’re both dependent upon your state of consciousness. That’s the best guess I can make.

According to a simple reciprocal relationship between space and time, if we were in time instead of space, 1234 and 1976 would be like Cincinnati and Cleveland, you see, and it would be space that would be flowing in a stream.

In other words, that chair right there is occupying space, but it’s occupying space now, today. Would it occupy the same space if sent back, forward or backwards. Now I’m alluding again to H. G. Wells’ Time Machine, the theory there that the fourth dimension exists in space. You go forwards and backwards, is that what you’re talking about?

Well, I really can’t say. I don’t know. All we know is that there seemed to be more dimensions of both space and time than we realize and the reciprocal system of Dewey B. Larsen, which is a new unified field theory that is being accepted all over the world as a new physical theory–the thing that Einstein was searching for when he died. It indicates that there are these additional dimensions, and that’s what Carla was talking about. The theory works; it works so beautifully that it has to be correct. That’s about as much as I can say about the time problem.

Now, just a few minutes ago we were talking about contactees, and I’d like to get into that just a little bit. First of all, you said that some of these other people who are not involved in the program of conditioning us, or the tests that we’re going through, come to this planet. And these people, in effect, would look like us. We would not recognize them on the street if we saw them, which some authors of some books, and I’m thinking about The Sky People, the book called The Sky People. I forget the person that wrote it, but he alluded to where he said that we have been among you for quite some time, and you might not recognize us, but we’ve seen you on the street, passed you on the street, this type of thing. How does the so-called “Men in Black” relate to this? Are these the people we’re talking about, the “Men in Black” which has been alluded to in many UFO books, material, whatever, as somebody going around and trying to cover up sightings and people who have been contacted by UFOs.

No, the “Men in Black” is a separate phenomenon. Most of these people that are living on Earth– there are not too many of them–they just look like us. The “Men in Black” all look approximately the same. They’re short, dark complexed, thin features, very thin. They usually wear black clothing; they have very black thick hair combed straight back; and their primary mission it seems is to eradicate UFO evidence. I believe that they are not only extraterrestrial but extra dimensional and are able to convert themselves into our physical reality to carry on their purposes. This is my best guess, but that they exist is beyond any doubt. They have been spotted too many times in too many places doing the same thing. Nobody really knows where they come from or who they are. We can only guess and say that they have this particular mission, but that gets into a very long story as to the full impact of the UFO phenomenon. There is considerably more to the story than we have time for in this interview, and I’m afraid the “Men in Black” fall into an area that is even stranger and more involved than what I’ve already told you.

Okay, now let’s talk about some of the human contactees. In other words, there are a few people, a handful of them, who have had national coverage, whether it be with a book, been on a TV program, a TV talk show, radio, such people as Betty and Barney Hill, which go back to 1960—into the early 60’s, 61– and the two fisherman down in Mississippi. These people claim to have been taken aboard a UFO. They are some of the best known contactee people. There was another case where I believe a trooper out in Nebraska, 1967, was taken aboard a UFO, given a message, hypnotized, given a lie detector test, polygraph, whatever it was, and the people who did the research on these people all claim that these people believe that this was a real event that happened in their life. How do you comment on that?

It was real. There are over 2,000 of these cases. I know Charlie Hixon, the older of the two that were taken from Pascagoula, and I’ve asked him some very tricky questions, you might say, having to do with information we had on his contact which he really didn’t know or have any idea why I was asking him the questions, and he checked out to be quite valid. Now Leo Sprinkle who did the hypnosis on Patrolman Shirmer in 1967, the Nebraska thing in 1967, is the friend of mine, and he’s quite convinced that this was a real situation and, of course, there are many other contactees that I know personally.

I spent a week with George Van Tassel. Most people discount him as being anything but a con man. However, George Van Tassel had a real contact in the middle fifties and extensive telepathic communication with UFOs in the Mohave Desert. I’m quite sure George is telling the truth, and the scientific community brushed him off simply because the things he said were too outlandish. In addition to Van Tassel there was, of course, George Adamski, and George Hunt Williamson, a professor of anthropology at the University of Arizona, who was one of the best contactees in the 50’s and had everything that I just told you all figured out back in the fifties through his communications. We have just been confirming this material for the past 20-25 years. Williamson did most of Von Daniken’s research and Von Daniken wrote the book. In fact Williamson published a book in England in 1958 with the Peruvian lines of Nasca which Von Daniken made so popular in his book. Williamson was a very careful researcher but a little too far ahead of his time to get much public reaction or acclaim. Very few of his books sold.

I’d like your opinion on death as we know it. Now we know that death is a very final thing, at least we think it is physically. Now what’s your opinion with regards to UFOs. Now we talked at some length with Larry Allison on age regression, and that has something to do with death because he says you never really die. You’re just recycled, more or less. Now how does this coincide with your opinion on UFOs and the way things end in the scheme of things.

Well, that’s how it works. I’ve done a lot of age regressions myself to previous lives, and there’s an overwhelming amount of data that indicates that we go through a recycling process, or reincarnation, go through numerous lives on planet Earth. Actually it’s designed by us before we’re born into it, and those who are guiding us and helping us to mature, to create an evolution of higher mind, and we have been going through this process here for a long time. And we will continue to go through it unless we can make a transition to a higher state of awareness, and that’s our ultimate goal to make this transition. Now this is happening now: there are children being born on the Earth that have abilities that are just totally outside normal abilities.

Would you call these people what some books—I again go back to—would say that these people are what is known as “galactic people?”

Oh, I don’t know how you could label them. They’re not coming—their previous life or incarnation is not on Earth. They’ve lived on another planet previously. This may be their first trip to Earth.

Well then they’re all tied together, right? The whole universe, in other words. You just couldn’t come back to Earth. You could go maybe to another planet in a previous life or…

If you have the mental ability; that is, if you have reached a state of evolution where you can travel from planet to planet and experience different planets higher in the classroom of life than this one, then you can do it. What they’re doing is they’re coming to a lower schoolroom. They’re coming from a higher schoolroom to a lower one and being born here for the purpose of upgrading this one. Now, I’ll tell you what’s happening with the kids. You know the famous Israeli Uri Geller who does all the metal bending and all the phenomena on television.

Well, a lot of people don’t know it, but there are thousands of children–and more of them being discovered every day–who can do the same thing. Professor Taylor who is the chairman at the Department of Mathematics at King’s College in London has tested 50 children in London who are able to bend and break metal and plastic strips simply by looking at them and wishing them to bend or break. He sealed these strips inside a glass tube and a glassblower sealed it—there’s no way to get it—nobody can get in there, is totally sealed. Kids simply stare at them and bend and break the material inside the tubes. They not only do that, but many of these kids have other abilities that are equally fantastic, such as the ability to directly heal by the laying on of hands.

That’s what Christ did, right?

Well, that’s the report. They have terrific I.Q.‘s in many cases and abilities in technologies that are not of an earthly nature. Now at present, there are several people who are working with these children. We’re trying to locate the children to find just how many there are because there are a lot of them, and they’re increasing every day. There are 20 being brought over from Tibet that have been under the guidance of a Tibetan Lama, and they’re being brought over next month to the New York area for study. They all have abilities that would fit in nicely on the old “I Dream of Jeannie,” or “Bewitched” programs and “My Favorite Martian” because those programs seem to be nothing but a little preview of what’s actually beginning to happen now. Things fly around the room..

Levitation, in other words.

…that sort of thing, and I’ve had that happen in my presence–bottles flown across the room and bounced off the window, for example.

What’s the reason for this? What brought this on, and could it be Satan that causes this. You’ve seen the “Exorcist” or heard of it. Now how does that fit in to it and answer each question too?

Well, there’s a total spectrum of mental orientation and the orientation at the lower end you might call satanistic type orientation, but in the case of these particular children that’s not the orientation. Paranormal effects can be caused by polarization of thought either positively or negatively. In other words, Christ did miracles and caused equal phenomena even greater than that, but you can’t say because he could do those things that he was a disciple of Satan.

If these UFO people are so good, and I’m sure they are because they would have done something by now if they weren’t, but if they’re so good and so knowledgeable, why are they letting sickness, hunger, disease, wars, just terrible things going on on Earth right now—why do they let that happen, and why do they let the Earth… like you say, the environment is going to change. Why don’t they step in a change this?

A very simple answer to that, and that’s because man on Earth desires what he is doing, and they’re not going to interfere with the desire of anyone. We have desired exactly what we have here. You see, we’re a population that’s sitting out in space on this ball, and what’s happening here is a function of our desire—nobody else’s. Nobody came and told us to have wars or caused us to have…

But we’re ignorant to the fact of them, most of us, you know. But we’re not ignorant of the what we’re doing. Is this what you’re saying?

Right. We have a desire to do these things, and this is all part of our evolutionary system. And we learn by trial and error. The thing of it is we… now I’m not talking about you, or anybody in this room, or anybody in the radio audience, but I’m saying in general the population of this planet is doing what it desires. It is not smart enough to learn by listening to someone say something or by reading something, it has to learn like a dog learns in an obedience school. Consequently, it is doing what it desires to do, and it’s getting what it’s getting out of those desires, which is coming out as disease, death and destruction. Now that is part of the training program, and they’re not going to disrupt our training program just as you wouldn’t walk into and mess up a third grade classroom because you’re a high school graduate.

Okay, now, we’ve gotten into some pretty hard things for a lot of people to swallow. I’m sure some of our listeners out there right now are beginning to think that they’re hearing for the first time some things that they’ve never heard, have never thought of, and how do we bring this back down to Earth. How do we bring it in concert with what we know to be is religion? How do we bring Jesus Christ into this realm of conversation that we’re speaking to, or speaking of rather, because the majority of our listening audience right now considers themselves a Christian, and what we’re talking about certainly is way beyond any realm of thinking most of those people have not thought of, and I’d like to ask Carla if she could answer that?

Well, in the first place, the teachings of the one we call Jesus the Christ and the teachings of the space people are identical. And in the second place, all of the material that we have been able to find is absolutely in unison in saying that Jesus is the teacher of our race, and that we must pay attention to him, that he was giving us the straight poop.

What place does he have? Is he, according to what we’re talking about right now, is he what we think he is, or are you saying that he is…In other words, is he God, like we’ve been taught by our preachers, by our clergymen to be what we think he is?

He definitely is, but then again, so are you. What I mentioned before: the Creator divided himself into an infinite number of parts, so we’re all part of the Creator. So the one known as Jesus Christ is one of those parts. He just simply happens to be a part closer to the Original Thought. He’s got it figured out, and we should try and take lessons.

Are you saying that he is…We think of Jesus Christ as being God and man. Are you saying he is merely an advanced form of man?

No, that’s not it at all. It’s more just as Jesus himself said, “Be perfect as your Father is perfect.” He himself felt that he was an instrument of the Father. “It is not me but the Father who speaks.” And he felt that each of us, as the son or the daughter of the Creator, had a path that went to heaven. And what he was attempting to do was to set an example. It isn’t saying that all of us are as great as Jesus. It is saying that all of us have the spark of the Creator in us, and that Jesus was the perfect example of that spark.

Now what happens at the very end of this? This is a little bit different from what we were talking about, but I think we covered that pretty much. But when this reincarnation reaches a certain level to the very, very, very top what happens? And the Bible talks of doomsday or the final day, Judgment day. Now how does that relate to the final stage of reincarnation, or does it relate to it in any way, Don?

Well, we can’t even guess at the final stage. To think of an intermediate stage when we end this cycle of learning on planet Earth, what’s going to happen is very simple. The troops on Earth who get the message and want to think in way that was originally planned by, you might say, our Creator, get a classroom that’s one grade up from where we are, and the other ones don’t graduate, so they have to go to class again.

That means they have to repeat it. They have to come back down to Earth or some other place?

Some people enjoy this type of existence and would rather do this thing, and that’s up to them. They can go over the cycle over again. It’s a pretty long cycle, 25,000 years. So when the cycle ends the things spoken of in the bible as “Judgment Day,” it’s simply, it’s not…somebody doesn’t stand up and say, “Okay, You take a test and see if you’ve made it or not.” What happens is that everybody, if you’re familiar with Kirlean photography, that’s the best example you can see this auric glow around everybody, and this glow is a different color for everyone. Now this color and intensity of glow is an index of the mental evolution or awareness of the individual, and that’s how the judging is done, you might say. If an individual has gotten to a point in his thinking where he can make the transition out of this classroom Earth, then his next incarnation will be in the next level of evolution. If he hasn’t, then he just simply goes to the class again. That’s all there is to Judgment Day.

Where does heaven and hell fit it here, okay? Heaven and hell, where does that fit in?

Well, it’s a relative thing. We are existing in both simultaneously, and we make our existence with our mind. You can, after you die–you will gravitate because of your mental orientation to a plane of existence that is natural for your thinking. In other words, spiritual birds of a feather flock together. And where you find yourself will be specifically a function of your thought because really thought is all there is. We think the physical around us is important, but it exists because of our thinking. Everything that we see around us exists because of thought. Every structure definitely exists because of thought. We had to think of it before we built it. Well, even the planet and the natural creation exists because of thought. It just exists because of a more primary thought.

Why can’t a person remember who he was in his last life? Why is that blocked out when he was born? Why?

Some people can. Some people don’t have a complete blockage. The kids that are being born now that can do these strange things…

Kids with extra-sensory powers, right?

Well, not paranormal powers including telekinetic ability to bend and break metal at a distance and that sort of thing. For the most part, after, if they’re told to think about it they usually don’t. It doesn’t occur to them to think about it until they realize that they can think about it. If they’re told to think about it they remember their previous life, and what they remember is lives on other planets. Now, people here can remember previous lives—a few of them consciously remember, but almost anybody can remember under hypnosis. We find that a good hypnotist with age regression techniques can take practically anybody back to previous, many previous lives.

We will continue with Part 4—our conclusion of our series on UFOs and psychic phenomenon in just a moment. In case you’ve just joined us, you’re listening to Insight, a special presentation of WIEL News. This is E. J. Clark speaking. Along with me this evening is Bob Craft, and we’re talking with Don Elkins and Carla Rueckert. Again, briefly, for those of you who have just joined us, about our guests, Mr. Elkins is a commercial airline pilot by profession. He has spent many years researching the UFO phenomena. Miss Rueckert, our other guest, has assisted Mr. Elkins for many years. The remaining WIEL News presentation is being brought to you solely as a news interview for your enjoyment and does in no way intend to convey or reflect the views of WIEL management, staff or its sponsors. And now the final conclusion of UFO and Psychic Phenomena.


General George Patten, as you all know, planned many of his battles because of things that he had seen earlier. He believed in reincarnation and he had déjà vu [experiences]. He’d been places before, and I’m not an expert on this, but I’m getting to the point. I think you know where to take it from here, Don. Can you explain how that fits, you know?

Well, Patton was just one of the people who could remember. During World War II he told the jeep driver—they were headed for the front–and he said “Turn right,” and the jeep driver said “but the front is to the left, sir.” And he says “Turn right. The front is to the right. I remember it from…” And he went out on a hill, and he saw the movie. He said the armies were lined up there, and he remembered the entire battle in which he was a general in an earlier time in history. He just liked war. He wanted to get into the act again. He’ll probably stay here in this density because he likes battles so much.

He’ll come back again and rejoin us at some later point. I want to get into something that we’re talking about but maybe a little bit removed, and that is the term “channeling.” I want to ask either you or Carla what channeling means.

It’s a word for telepathic reception and converting what you get mentally telepathically to words. It just means that you are repeating what you get telepathically. There are several different ways of doing it and just like turning on a radio, you can tune in any station you want to. Some people say it’s the work of the devil. Well, it could be the work of the devil if you tune in a low station on your mental channel. What you have to do is get a good receiver. People have seen the “Exorcist” and things like that. Of course you can channel a very negative source like the little girl in the Exorcist. She got tuned into some really bad vibrations, just like we can tune in some real bad music on the radio. Well, if you want to get good music or some high stuff, you have to get your mind attuned to the right wavelength. Then you get what you want.

If you want to get the UFOs you have to know how to tune in the UFOs. What we’ve been working on is tuning in the UFOs, and we get excellent results. So people who indicate that this type of thing is satanistic or the work of the devil, simply because of all the publicity along those lines and a lot of down-to-earth religious types, really don’t know what they’re talking about. They’ve not studied it carefully enough, and if they will spend some time investigating the telepathic phenomena, they’ll find that any range of sources can be tuned in.

Why would there be a different range? Are you saying that if we’re going to call a bad source as the Devil or Satan, that he is on one end or the other if we’re going to look at it as a radio dial, and he’s down there. And if we want to tune in the higher source we want to avoid him and change our channel somewhere else?

Yeah, well, telepathy work. You can tune in Manson if you want to. If you can get on his wavelength, you can communicate telepathically with him without any trouble. And you might say that his wavelength is a little lower than the one you’d want to achieve because of his rather mixed-up orientation and philosophy.

…mixed up mind. Now how do you change channels if we’re speaking in this type of frame?

Well, that takes a little training. It’s very, it’s simple, but at the same time it’s a little complex. I can’t really go into it on the program, but I will say that some of the people that I’m working with not only use a simple technique, but they also use some very technological aids such as negative ion generators of a very good type with a flame source, a $7,000 generator. It’s not available to the general public unless someone has a lot of money. And tuned Faraday cages in which a Faraday cage is a copper cage, and you sit inside of it, and it eliminates all electromagnetic radiation by grounding. And with certain technological aids and also intense discipline of the mind, it’s possible to use the mind like a radio receiver or a television receiver and actually get pictures with your messages. Now this all sounds like science fiction, but it’s going on today. In fact, Sunday I was in the laboratory where they were performing this work, so these things are happening. They’re just not too well known by the general public right now.

Carla, do you know what channeling is? Do you experiment in channeling?

Yeah, I’ve been a member of Don’s experimental group since 1962, and I have experienced telepathic contact, and I would say probably well over 100 other people have. When Don talks about the tuning, or the setting of your mind to receive the message, it’s very much the same thing. I’m sure you’ve experienced it in your life when you enter, for instance when you enter your church and you sit down, there’s an atmosphere that comes over you, and your mind begins to rest and you begin to feel—you just feel better, and you feel more peaceful because you’re there. It’s that kind of a feeling that you begin to seek in getting this kind of contact. It’s simply out and out you are attempting to raise your vibrational level to the point where you are in a higher realm, where your thoughts are floating in a more idealistic, non-materialistic way.

What happens when you channel? What is the experience? Do people speak through you as some sources say happens in this experience.

Well, for about 12 years nothing happened. I found it very difficult to begin to channel. But I think I’m too intellectual. But when it finally did happen I found the same thing that everybody had told me, that telepathic reception was simply a matter of having the confidence to accept the fact that it was happening to you. What happens is you get a thought in your mind. It’s basically indistinguishable from your own thoughts except you are aware that you did not generate it. If you accept the thought and then speak it, just like catching a baseball and then throwing it, you’ll get another thought. And that’s what channeling is. It’s simply a matter of catching baseballs and throwing them, only the baseballs are thoughts.

But no certain different voice other than your own speaks during the process of channeling?

That has never happened to me. I believe that other people in other places have experienced all manner of different types of channeling, but…


I think you’re confusing that with trance mediumship. This is another technique of channeling. It’s what most people are familiar with in the case of the medium’s parlor in which the individual goes into trance, and the discarnate or other entity takes over the body including the vocal mechanism and uses the body as a speaking device. Now this is not what we do. What we do is just a direct telepathic thing which you can do sitting at the kitchen table and be buttering your piece of bread while you’re doing it. You’re not at the mercy of some other entity that totally takes you over.

What about reports that it is as some sources have described, a grotesque thing to witness where people who are supposedly, whether it be a séance, or, as you call it, or if we’re speaking on a different experiment, experience fits, slobber a lot. Some kind of definite chemical change is going on in their body where it’s not natural. The whole experience is unnatural as we think of natural. Is this possible? Or is this what happens?

No. [chuckles] We simply don’t do any of that. I don’t know what they’re doing or why they’re going through all of this, but that’s their problem. We don’t do that. We just do simple telepathic reception. I’ve worked with Uri Geller, for instance. We’ve sent back and forth exact telepathic drawings that were precise in every detail and dimensionally almost exact, exactly the same size. We have no problem at all in direct telepathic communication with obvious evidential proof that it’s accurate. It’s a two-way thing. I can send to him, and he can send to me. What we’re doing is the same thing, except we’ve got our transmitter aboard a UFO.

In other words, when you’re communicating wherever he is, and I assume that that possibly is real, and you’re communicating here or some other place, that where this energy is going from your mind to his mind is being channeled through a spacecraft in space?

Not really. It works a little more directly than that. I think it’s just sort of a direct thing. This sounds impossible, but most of the things I’ve been talking about are pretty weird. About a year ago I was flying a light airplane and the gyro horizon malfunctioned and went totally out. That’s like having a flat tire on a car. It doesn’t fix itself; you have to replace it or repair it. Well, the horizon was out for an hour and a half, and I was on top of an overcast, and I really needed it to get back down because you need artificial horizon in an airplane to fly through layers of cloud.

Of course, Donald wasn’t scared, but I was terrified at the time.

You were in the same craft at the time?

Yes. I’m a witness to this.

Anyway, at the precise moment that I really needed the horizon it came back in and worked perfectly and worked perfectly from then on. Well, I thought this was fantastic, and I accepted it. Five days later I was with Uri Geller, and I was talking to him about something else, and I’d almost forgotten this. But I thought of it as we finished the conversation. I said, “Say, something happened funny to me the other day that reminded me of you.” And I told him, and he said “you won’t believe it.” And he jumped up and he says “Look for a manila folder.” Well, I had my hand on a pile of papers, and the manila folder was underneath, so I pulled it out, and he said “Open it up and look at it.” I opened it up and scrawled across one page were the words “Horizon went out!!” and under that, “Plane?” I said “What’s this?” He said, “When did this happen?” And I said “Well, it happened Sunday.” He said “Sunday afternoon?” And I said “Yeah.”

He said “Well, I was in my apartment in New York.” And I was over in Evansville, Indiana at the time. This was a distance of about 700 miles. He said “I was in my apartment in New York listening to stereo music on my headset, and suddenly over the music a voice said “Horizon went out.” Very loud. And he said “I felt energy go through me like when I fix something.” He said “I didn’t know what this meant, so I wrote it down on the manila folder.” And I said “It sort of looks like you fixed my horizon.” He said, “Yes, I think I did.” At that point a bottle took off from the desk and flew across the room a distance about 10 feet and bounced off the window rather hard. I thought it would have broken one or the other, but it didn’t. He said “Yeah, I fixed your horizon okay, that’s how they tell me.”

That’s a wild story. It certainly is. We’re getting down toward the end of the program, and I don’t want to end on a gloomy note, but I do want to bring out one thing that we talked about in Part 1 and Part 2 of this series. And that is, some of the predictions, some of the things that were learned through hypnosis by Larry Allison and some of the people he talked to claimed that there’s going to be great havoc, destruction, bad times for the whole earth in the years ’84, ‘85 and ‘86. And I’d like for you to comment and give me your impression whether you believe that’s true and any insights or reasons for all this—exactly what you know.

Yeah, well, [from] our indications and communications, this has been going on since back in the 50’s. This was first communicated from the UFO sources back in the early 50’s in fact, that this was all going to take place, and this was all part of the end of the cycle. The chain of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions will lead into this, and then when general devastation has occurred on the surface of the Earth, of course, there will be considerable chaos because of what the people are doing on the surface of the Earth who don’t understand what’s happening. It’s very important at this time to create some kind of educational program, and funding for this is almost impossible simply because nobody believes us. We don’t have that much money, and those of us who have been in the research for some time realize that this is coming about, and we are trying different techniques to disseminate the information, not so the people will believe it–we could care less whether people believe it–but simply so that they will know that there is some crackpot theory like this around.

And they had a chance to believe it. Right?

And then when things start happening they can look around and say “Well, wait a minutes, maybe that’s right.” And as the things happen as predicted they will be a little bit, shall we say, less concerned because all of this havoc is not really that bad. It’s just a transition to a much better condition that we’re going to get in to after all this is over.

What about the survivors of this great catastrophe that is supposedly going to happen?

I’d like to emphasize that everybody is going to survive. A lot of people will die, but they’ll still survive simply because you really can’t die. You can only lose what you think is your body now and go through a transition that you think is death.

But you really do die, in the respect that when you do come back you don’t remember anything. Right?

Well, that’s the good part about the next classroom. You remember everything. The people who have to recycle in this classroom won’t remember. What you bring with you when you don’t remember, is all your biases. You know, you become a type of person and you have all these orientations and biases, so when you reincarnate you bring all these with you. You’re still the same type of person but you get another chance to start all over and test all these biases out again and find out what’s wrong with them. Our problem here on Earth is that we’re just not smart enough to analyze things for ourselves, and we have to go through this rather primitive training technique which is really a drag, so it’s going to be a lot better if we can make this transition.


Oh, I dreamed I saw a silver space ship flying in the yellow haze of the sun. There were children crying and banners flying all around the chosen ones, all in a dream, all in a dream. The loading had begun. Flying Mother Nature silver sea to a new home in the sun. Flying mother nature silver sea to a new home in the sun.

For the past hour you’ve been listening to Insight, a special presentation of WIEL News. Today, we brought you Part 4, the conclusion of our series on the subject of UFOs and psychic phenomena. Prior to today, this series began with our weekly WIEL Newsmakers 76 program where we began with Part 1. Then last Sunday we aired Part 2 and Part 3. This series presentation was brought to you solely as a news interview. In conclusion we wish to thank our guests on this series for their time and their commentary. In Part 1 and Part 2 our guests were Larry Allison and Bill Terry. In Part 3 and Part 4 our guests were Don Elkins and Carla Rueckert. All reside in Louisville where these interviews were prerecorded some time ago. On behalf of Bob Craft, this is E. J. Clark bidding you a pleasant goodnight and saying thank you for listening.