Carla was interviewed by telephone by Ben Lucyk, on Friday, October 2, 2009.

[The recording begins shortly after the interview started. Ben’s interest was focused on how to target his web site to appeal to those who were awakening at this time of global shift.]

Understanding How People Awaken

It’s been my observation that when people surf into us 1 there is no commonality in their age, their sex, their background, in what they were doing before the moment at which all of the sudden they started seeking. It’s as if, as you said, they were asleep and then like Rip Van Winkle, they just woke up.

I like to think of myself as a snooze alarm whenever I talk or whenever I write. I figure, well, they can read that and then they can turn over and go back to sleep, or they can use the alarm and wake up. I have no attachment to the outcome, but I think that is your main problem is that as far as I can observe. 2 And I’ve been working with seekers since the middle 70’s, when our first book came out and I started getting reader mail on Secrets of the UFO. [This book] had a lot of spiritual stuff in it but was written from a scientific point of view. There were a lot of people that responded to that book and wrote in and it helped them to wake up. So I would say that one common way that people wake up is through reading some book, seeing some kind of article or seeing something on YouTube.

I do think you’re absolutely correct in using the internet because everybody’s gone there. The print book industry is having a hard time now because of the fact that so many people rely on what they can get on line. So you’re in the right place and you certainly have a beautiful mission, a wonderful niche that you can fill for people. You might also want to talk to a fellow named Jody Boyne, in Hawaii who used to have a wanderer’s site. 3 He took off from loving The Law of One to feeling that he was a wanderer and he figured that there were other wanderers and he wanted to have a place where people could tell their stories. He has done that for years and years so you might talk to him too. He might have noted something I’ve missed. He is a librarian and a very sharp cat.

Cool. Well, I thought something was wrong with me when I was growing up. I wasn’t passionate about the “normal” things that people were passionate about and I thought it was an issue. “How come I don’t get excited about things like other people do?” About three years ago I came across this general material and became fascinated with it and then specifically over a year ago. I haven’t been able to contain my passion for this. I’ll talk about this all day and all night! I’m really excited to be doing what I’m doing and I think that I have a great idea of how to do it online.

The reason why I’m reaching out to you is, I’m a little bit stuck far as approaching or seeing my vision come to life. If I had a million dollars and didn’t have to worry about how to raise some funds and do all the typical business dance actually to build a team of developers that can go and start writing software for me, then I wouldn’t really have to worry about trying to define our market, these normal business things that the people that are approving the grants and potential investors are going to want to see to prove to them that you’ve maybe got a real idea here from a business sense.

I really don’t care too much about the business sense of the idea, though I’m being kind of forced to approach it and at least get some intelligent information around it, because I think this is the way I need to go to accomplish my vision. I think I need to attack it from a business sense first before I can actually start building what I want to build.

Well, I think the idea here basically [is that] once you’ve refined and established your website then you’re out there, and from that point you can try to put something on YouTube, find out what conferences are being held around the country or around the world and see if you can get a link going or some way where people can find you if they’re surfing around at this conference. That’s the kind of thing you need, just availability. Put your name in as many places as possible.

Now, we’ve never done this, you understand, but many people have seen our site. And people, to put it gently, steal our stuff and put it up on their own site for their own reasons. Still we don’t try to make people take those down because we realize that the more places on the net people see something to do with our website, then the more chances people have to run into it while they’re surfing around and seeking. I think there’s a lot of surfing involved in the seeking process, unless they get it from a book. And then they go right from the book [to our material]. We’ve had an awful lot of people recommended to us because of David Wilcock and his book.

Same here.

But if it’s not a book, if it’s people searching around, I think there are engines that you can hook into, search engines where you can make sure, just by accessing your own website a lot, [that you] begin to build up the amount of hits on it. And then the search engines will show you first. You can just go to each of the search engines and register all the key words that you believe people use.

Yes, I deal with this quite a bit.

I wish I could tell you that there’s one particular age group that you’ve got to hit, but in my observation, there isn’t. That’s what makes it so confusing. It doesn’t matter what your age is chronologically; everybody’s the same age when they wake up, and that’s at ground zero. And whatever your experience has been to that point becomes somewhere close to irrelevant, because that’s all in the box and now you’re out of the box. You’re not wanting to go examine the box again particularly. You’re wanting to find out what else there is and how you can establish a new larger box for yourself, one that contains all of these wonderful things about being awake, about knowing the nature of the universe, the nature of us as human animals and where we’re going and all of that wonderful stuff.

To identify a market group would be close to impossible, 4 I would say, because in every age, each sex, any preference, any background, it all fades away when a person wakes up and says, “Oh!”

It can come from anywhere. I think Eckhart Tolle put it well [when he said] that it has to come from within first. The first spark, if you will, is necessary before that seeking begins. It can come from anywhere. So let me [go on], I would love to be able to talk with you all day.

Well, take your time. I’ll give you as much time as you need.

Trying to Organize Your Seeking

Thank you. We did sort of go over how people awaken. And our answer is from every way, there’s no consistency. How do people organize their thoughts? Is there any pattern in how they try and organize things to help them understand themselves better?

Yes, I think there is. Generally it is, “Well, before I woke up this is what was going on, and I woke up this way and after I woke up this is what I’ve been doing since then. It’s pretty much a mixture of chronology and that all-important “aha moment”. Usually when people write in to us, it is because of the fact that I’ve written extensively about wanderers, and of course, there are so many wanderers, I think.

I don’t think we’re getting anybody [who comes into incarnation on Earth] in third density any more that’s just strictly wired third density. I think we’re getting Indigo Children—whether or not they’re awakened Indigo Children or whether they’re just beasts like most kids [humorously], or whether they have awakened early, which they’re often liable to do because the veil is so much thinner when you’re dually wired third density/fourth density.

Still, I think that almost every person that was born since 1977 is going to be a wanderer—is going to have come from a higher density. I think almost all of them, actually, are graduates of Earth’s third density. They died somewhere since 1977 and they went through the graduation process and they looked at the menu of all that was available in fourth density—which is a stunning menu—but their heart was still [full]—Earth was calling to them. They looked back to Earth and saw it was still Harvest and they need workers in the Harvest. And they said, “I’ve got to get back.”

So they’re back and I think they’re interested not just in helping lighten the consciousness of Planet Earth’s people, but doing restorative work with the planet itself, because so many of these people that graduated still have that background of coming from Maldek or Mars or one of those planets where they in some way compromised the atmosphere or made the planet uninhabitable before they could finish third density. So they finished 3D here on Earth, and as you can see, if you look around globally, you know we have a lot of bad habits that we haven’t fixed yet. There are a lot of people who are totally unawakened, mostly the people wearing the suits, [and they] are systematically destroying the planet.

So I think there’s a lot of energy in the young people that are wandering back to Earth to do that karmic work and restore whatever they can get a hold of locally, you know, restore this stream, or restore this place where there’s toxic waste. [They are] just really being pulled into the network of those who really love and want to be stewards of Mother Earth. So you have all these young people who have the likelihood of awakening as young as six or seven years old because of the dual wiring and the thinner veil. So you don’t have to exclude people that are still in high school or middle school.

I agree. I think to be honest they would be using the internet a lot more [than older people]. I had so many thoughts on things that you were saying there and was relating to some of your books. It’s great, I love it.

Well, thank you.

So when people come to you and ask you a million questions about what they are going through and how they are doing it, is there anything standardized, is there something that you tell them, like, “Go look here,” or, “This is the way that people say that they go to find difficult answers?” Or do you tell them to look within and have it come to them, that it’s unique for everyone. Are there any tips that you can give to me that you’ve given to other people that I could use to try to define some structure around, “How do people find answers when they seek?”

For one thing, over the years I’ve written a lot and all of that stuff is available and free, so even if people don’t have a penny they can read A Wanderer’s Handbook, or Book I. I feel strongly about that. So I think that if you have a body of knowledge on your site and you have links to other sites, it’s one way to categorize what people are interested in, like, “Oh, you think you come from elsewhere and you want to know what’s up with that? Okay, here’s where you go for that.” Just give them a very specific link.

You can, by the way, link within our site now. You couldn’t used to bookmark specific pages, but you can now.

I’ve got to clarify. I know you’re seeing our site as being similar to yours and it’s really not. Just to help you see what we’re trying to deal with without going into so much detail, I don’t want to create another website like yours or like the thousands that are out there that have great information that people will be finding. I want to create a meeting place for people to come, to point to sites like yours and others and say why they found it to be of value, and to create groups, social groups online, chats, forums, discussion boards, very new technology that will help people share stories together so that they’re talking about your site and saying why it was great. They’re defining their own context.

I don’t want to publish anything. I want to be completely impartial in what I build. I want to build tools that allow people to come and to organize their own lives and then share that with people so that everyone can have a mini-website, if you will, and everyone can compare and discuss and share together. That’s what I want to build, so I’m trying to find a way, I’m trying to understand which tools would be valuable to people so that they can accomplish their goals of seeking better.

You said you spend most of your time doing this. Are you online with people one-on-one; getting information one person at a time?

I’ve got a small group of people, I’ve obviously been talking about this for a long time now and I’ve got a short list of people that I think would help with this exercise, but I’m finding it challenging. I can’t even define properly how I awakened and how I want to organize it. So I figured you’d be someone that would have a lot of people telling their stories like that.

Yes, and we even a have a place on our website that is structured like a forum but it’s just for people to tell their wanderer stories, and to have a place to share. It’s on [](] and it’s in the forums under “Wanderer Stories.”

I’ll look there. I haven’t been deep into your website so I’ll check that out.

I think I gained my information back in the old days when we were much smaller and not very many people knew about us. I had the time to write people one at a time, so over about a ten-year period I was able to figure out what questions repeated. That’s how A Wanderer’s Handbook came to be. So if you want to check through the Table of Contents, every single subject line, and there are over 100 of them through the chapters, is one of the questions I’m answering. That’s how I structured that book. I analyzed every single bit of email, from the first email I got to when I was planning that book, and I plugged every single email into a question. And there are between 100 and 120 questions that were the standard opening questions for people who were trying to figure things out.

That was one of my questions—how did you organize your book writing? So that’s great.

That’s how I organized that book. When you get to that I’ll tell you other ways I’ve organized material.

Please keep going.

OK. The way I organized 101 was to go back to the Law of One material. I’d figured out, after I’d gotten enough feedback from A Wanderer’s Handbook, which was out in 2001, eight years ago now, that I hadn’t done what I thought I was doing. I thought I was writing an entry-level book. But I was just too far up in the ivory tower, I was just too ignorant of what was going on on the ground. And so I came to the conclusion, after just so many letters saying they loved the book but there were just so many things they didn’t understand, [that I needed to write an entry-level book about the principles of the Confederation philosophy].

So I did a little investigation and discovered that the median reading level in America today is the seventh grade and the median educational level is the 11th grade. So that’s why I wrote 101 which will be a series of books beginning with 101. I wrote the first one [of the series, 101], the bullet one, to get as many people going as possible before 2012. And we won’t really notice the difference, but after 2012, metaphysically speaking, it will be a different kind of life. We will be hearing so much more information than third-density wiring can use that it will be baffling and frustrating and very hard.

We will have run out of usable catalyst, as you say, for third-density experience.

Yes. So I got that one out first. I went back to the Law of One and I tried to tell the story of the philosophy, looking at how the principles of the Law of One are organized. Because one big problem with Don’s conversation with those of Ra was that it was far-ranging and it was not organized according to a plan. It was organized according to Don’s incredible intelligence and his long, long research experience. He knew all kinds of questions to ask, and Ra kept throwing him off, because instead of following along with what Don expected Ra to say, the Ra group would say something entirely different and then Don would have to fall back and punt real fast with new questions reflecting the new information.

So it’s a wonderful series of books to read—we still read it all the time, we’ve never stopped reading it.

I’m on my second pass.

Well, we’re probably on our fifteenth. [Laughter] So I tried to figure out how to tell the story so that it flowed all the way, so that people could keep building on the intelligence that they already have. That’s the way I did 101. I went back and organized the material as if I were trying to teach it in a course. That’s why I titled it 101.

How did you actually organize it? Did you cut out little snippets? Did you have it all digital and you would put this into this category and this into this category and you’d group content and that would then be what you would distill down into a section for the book?

No. My husband and I usually take two trips a year out to Nebraska to see Jim’s mom, who will be 93 this year, and there’s a lot of time in the car there. I never get a chance to talk to my husband anymore, because he’s working hard paying the bills. He’s a lawn care expert and has his own business and he is the only employee of it. So he’s out there pumping. He’s working hard. And when he gets home he’s really sleepy.

But twice a year I get his ear for long periods of time since going out and coming back from Nebraska takes four days total. So that year, 2006, I started working on the outline. I had a bunch of blank 3 by 5 cards and Jim and I would just talk back and forth and we’d identify something and I’d write it down on a card. So by the time we got to Nebraska I had a bunch of cards. The cards involved, topics like polarity, light, love, free will, and so on. And then on the way back we started getting into some of the details of each chapter.

We have to go back within a very short period of time because the off-season is not that long here in Kentucky. We are in the South and things keep growing. So the beginning of December was our first trip and the end of February was our second trip. By the end of February, when we made the second trip, I’d established the first chapters, but I was still working with how to deal with the chakras. We had hours and hours of conversation between us on the details of the chapters of the chakras.

That second trip out there in early 2007 finished my outline. I’d already started working on Chapter 1 by that time, but still it’s really good to have an outline, to know where you’re going. And that’s the way I did it. It wasn’t really scientific at all. I’m not a person that has a laptop in the car—I’m still holding on to the 3 by 5 cards that I learned how to use in college in the 1960’s, when there was no such thing as a computer except for the big hulking mainframes that needed all that air conditioning, not exactly what you’d be carrying in the car or even have as a tool to use for research.

It was pretty intuitive, but on the other hand, Jim and I were buttressed by a very long period of familiarity with the material so we didn’t really have to thumb through the books or get favorite quotes or anything, we basically knew the cosmology. I had taught the cosmology for years so it was just pulling together the ideas.

The important thing about 101 was that I wanted to get it so that it flowed throughout the entire book, so that I was never introducing something that people couldn’t understand from previous material. That took the longest time, making absolutely sure that I didn’t leave any baby step out. When I wrote the book I would write each section of each chapter and then I would go back and smooth it out and lengthen it and stretch it, making sure that the baby step was maintained.

It would often take as many as six rewrites to comb out all the references that didn’t make sense to somebody who hadn’t gone beyond the eleventh grade. I had to comb out all the words that are not at the seventh-grade level. Really it was the hardest job I ever had, because I didn’t want to write down to people. I didn’t want to dumb down the material. I didn’t want to leave out one single iota; I just wanted to slow it down so people could follow.

Just some additional feedback. The books are great. I’m halfway through the A Wanderer’s Handbook and I enjoy the fact that it’s giving me a different perspective than what you presented through The Ra Material books. I like the fact that we get to hear the message said a little differently by Q’uo and Hatton [than by Ra].

I read your books kind of backwards, I guess, I read The Law of One, [Book V] first, and it was nice hearing your personal thoughts on the material. You have to reread The Law of One a few times before it sinks in a little bit. Hearing your interpretations is great and now getting some additional sources from these other Confederation group members is exactly what I was looking for so it’s nice to have that kind of blended in as well.

Before I forget, can I just ask, and this is kind of creeping into the personal questions that I have, but, there’s tons of information out there. Many people channel. And I’m finding that a lot of the popular New Age books, like Seth, 5 the Hicks and Abraham teachings, 6 and even someone that I saw at a conference recently, Maria Schafer, the message I find is almost contrary and opposite what the Law of One teachings are about. They seem to be lacking in acceptance and tolerance. There is a urgency in the creativity that they try to promote. I don’t know if you know where I’m going with this, but it’s difficult because I don’t know if I’m missing it or if I’m just seeing something that many people aren’t seeing. I find a lot of negative messages hidden in some of writings of these popular books that seem to be very positive, but I don’t think that they are.

Tuning Your Channel to Keep Negative Influences at Bay

Right. Well, here’s what happens. This may be something you already know, but I’ll just go over it because it’s so common that this happens. You get a person that is a naturally service-to-others oriented person. He or she discovers that they have a gift for hearing subconscious material in a conscious manner and begins generating material. He doesn’t know anything about tuning. He doesn’t know anything about challenging spirits. He has no concept of just how crowded the universe is. He doesn’t have a concept of how you create your own universe. So he begins getting specific questions. These questions are frequently fear-based and if you get a fear-based question, the Confederation type channel cannot answer it.

So the person, not really understanding what the stakes are here, goes, okay, I want to answer this question. So he continues channeling and the Confederation-type entity, whatever that original contact was, whatever that tuned contact was, can’t stay. The contact has been de-tuned. So you’re off that radio station, you can’t get that contact that gives purely positive information. But there are tons of people out there in the unseen realms that are perfectly happy to get the tuning that you’re on. You’re service to others and you want positive stuff so they continue generating through you positive sounding information. But every once in a while they stick in the knife: “Be afraid, be very afraid, it’s happening soon and we’re all doomed. But you, you can be special, you can be one of the ones on the bus, you can be one of the chosen ones, you can be lifted off the planet and this doesn’t have to happen to you.”

I’ve seen the most amazingly exclusive material where they’re choosing who’s going to go and the person in charge of the group says, “Well, you’re no longer on the bus.” [Laughter] And you know there is no positive source that is like that.

That is why I wrote A Channeling Handbook in the 1990’s—because of the fact that there were so many books that were coming out on channeling at that time. I think it’s a fad that’s past. But at that time it was just horrendous how many people there were who were holding “learn to channel” weekends. Of course, it’s the easiest thing to do. I can teach anybody to channel in 15 minutes if they do exactly what I say. It’s something that we all can do. But it’s excruciatingly difficult to do it well.

I never wanted to do it, as you know from reading my stuff, I was a reluctant channel. I just like the silence. I was just such a maverick, even in this fringe area. But when Don said, “Well, I can’t continue this experiment any more unless you learn to channel, because you’re all I’ve got left,” I said “Okay.”

Well, I just have a naturally investigative mind. As soon as I began to generate material I wanted to do better work than I was doing. And the first thing I noticed was the tuning, what a difference it made if I’d taken the time to focus myself, set an intention, pray, sing, whatever it took. Later on I developed layers of this. After a while I added protection of the circle and myself.

But the tuning refers to my model of the radio. We receive, we send, we are instruments. So I wanted to tune my instrument and I wanted to hook up with the highest and best “radio station” I could get a hold of and that involved challenging. Because I’m a mystical Christian I found it very easy to challenge in the name of Jesus Christ: “Can you say Jesus is Lord?” You’d be surprised at the number of entities that cannot say that.


Just sitting here in the daylight, looking at the leaves falling outside the window, it sounds farfetched that by simple words like that you can create a brick wall through which negative entities can’t go. Nevertheless, when you switch from space/time to time/space, thoughts become things. You are not an entity in time/space until you have come to a knowledge of yourself such that you can put your two feet on your metaphysical ground and say, “This is who I am. This is Whose I am. This is how I believe. This is my highest principle. I am in service of this principle.”

[That principle can be] unconditional love, light, wisdom, or whatever, I’ve had lawyers that learned to challenge in the name of justice and wisdom. But you must, in order to have metaphysical viability and do work in the unseen realms, have a metaphysical identity. And that identity is not Ben Lucyk or Carla Rueckert. It is “I am a servant of Jesus the Christ. I stand for unconditional love. I would die for unconditional love.” Or, “I am Ben Lucyk.” And then you say what your principles are, what you live for or what you would die for. Then you can be viable to that extent. Then you can challenge spirits and they absolutely cannot pass.

So that’s what differentiates me from a lot of channels. Within two years of my starting to channel I began noticing what happened to my channel when the fear-based questions were coming. So I stopped taking fear-based questions. I would take a question of considering what the spiritual principles are that I should think about in considering “X,” but I wouldn’t just take a question like, “Oh, what’s going to happen? Are we all going to die?”

This is still going on today. At some of these conferences they are split down the middle [with positive material vs. “doom and gloom” type material.]

The person came out with a wonderful thing, but then by not guarding the contact or the channeling itself, it became de-tuned and it got turned into mixed polarity. We know the best example of mixed polarity. It is the Ten Commandments. Poor old Moses! He was a very positive cat, but they wanted specific things. they wanted to know and it came out, “What NOT to do.”

Jesus tried to turn that around. He said, “This is the new commandment, Love the Lord Thy God and love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets—all the Ten Commandments and the prophecies, everything. But people don’t listen to that. They don’t get it. And that’s why the very channels that come out with great things also come out with mixed material. It’s kind of frustrating. But in order to keep your material pure, you just have to say, “No, I won’t take that question.”

So when you’re meeting someone that’s come to you, do you have a little litmus test to apply to gauge whether they’ve potentially opened themselves up to this de-tuning? Maybe they are coming from a service to others nature—do you try to understand if they’ve been mixed in polarity or have been presented with service-to-self material?

Well, you know, I don’t volunteer this information. But if a channel comes to me, like most of the people that you’ve talked about have at one time or another come to me, and says, “I think there’s something going on with my channeling. Could you tell me about that, [then I will share my impressions with them?”


So I’ll read some of their channeling and I’ll say, “Here’s what’s happening.” And I’ll give them the same rap that I just gave you. And they all feel insulted. “I don’t need to tune. I don’t need to challenge. I know who my contact is.” They get all defensive and huffy and then they pout and go away and they don’t listen. [My information] is just very inconvenient and it’s not commercial.

And it comes through in their material. To me, it is so easy to be able to tell when someone’s been manipulated and is focusing on control rather than just acceptance. I’m very thankful that I read The Law of One first. If I had gotten into these other things too heavily before I did that, I think it would be much more difficult for me personally to be able to tell the difference as to the true nature of what the content is about. I use what you’ve done with your work as the baseline to compare other material against. It’s been really helpful.

Where Else Can We Find the Law of One Philosophy?

Do you have any other sources outside the Confederation that talk about the Law of One, and specifically the choice of third density in service to self and service to others? Do you have something that is outside of the Confederation? Or were you sort of watched over by the Confederation in this corner of the galaxy.

Well, I’ve really focused on Confederation material because that’s where my service is. If you read other material, whether it’s from the Western tradition or Eastern traditions, I think you’ll find Law of One information in each and every source.

Really? Specifically? I haven’t started my investigation into that but I’ve always been aware that there were similarities. But again, it’s tough to know if it’s been twisted, the message having been distorted by the source. And there’s a lot of reading to do. Do you know of one specific source you’d recommend?

Try the New Testament. There are parts of the Koran and the Bhagavad Gita [that are good.] The thing of it is, as you read these sources, that each and every one of them is distorted [in many places]. So you sometimes see a shadow of the truth or sometimes a somewhat substantially twisted or skewed truth. But they’re all coming from this eternal wisdom that all things are one.

An interesting book to read is Amit Goswami’s The Visionary Window; a Quantum Physicist’s Guide to Enlightenment. I quoted from this book concerning The Golden Rule in 101: The Choice, at the beginning of the chapter on polarity. Goswami had done the research to show that the Golden Rule is in many religions, I believe about a dozen of them.

Would you believe that I just flipped open the book and landed right on the list? That’s synchronicity! [Ben reads a name.] Is that him?

That’s him. Take a look at that list—it covers the globe. The writings of Lao Tsu are wonderful. I would say there’s a lot of Law of One in that. Try Zen Buddhism. Any reading that you do, you are going to end up finding echoes of The Law of One. All things are one. We are here to love each other. These are just basic truths. The problem, of course, and the Confederation has always said this, is that it’s too simple. It’s too simple for an intellectually awakened, intuitionally challenged group of people like Americans today are.

I don’t think I would have come to this awareness unless it was through scientific channels. And I give thanks so much that Don came from a scientific background, asking those types of questions. Because I needed a validation at that level to make the leap.

Yes. He was absolutely perfect. It was his job to do this work. Certainly he was dedicated. In his late teens he started investigating. First he investigated reincarnation, went on from there into UFOs. He talked to a lot of early contactees. And by the time he came to the work that we began together in the ‘60’s, the meditation group and the channeling, he was very sophisticated compared to almost anybody, but always from a strictly scientific point of view. He had no interest whatsoever in religion and had never read philosophy. He was strictly a scientist.

I’m excited to tell you that we recently found an old fragment of his. We were looking through files, trying to make sure that our archives were complete, because our archive-site webmaster is doing a printed archive and wanted to make sure it was complete, with everything we had.

[Side one of tape ends.]

And we found a fragment, only 32 pages long, all typed up. It was Don’s way of getting into The Law of One. It was written in 1984, shortly before he died. We’ll soon be printing that, too. Look for our announcement on site.

That will be a great read, for sure.

It really will be! It’s only 32 pages long, but that scientific viewpoint comes through. I’m a better writer than he was, but I don’t have that viewpoint. So even in Secrets of the UFO, when you read through it you’re getting more of my writing than his, because he was notorious for writing page 1 of a chapter and then saying, “You see where I’m going with this, finish it.” [Laughter] That would be his input on the chapter. But in this 32-page fragment, it’s all him. And I think that people that come from a scientific background will appreciate that entry into The Law of One.

Definitely. I’m looking forward to it. What about our friend David? 7 Do you still keep in contact with him? He’s very much about the scientific angle and I know he came to visit you a long time ago.

Definitely. He stayed with us for about a year, but there were tremendous incompatibilities in our lifestyles. He was horrified at my lifestyle. He just couldn’t believe that this person that he’d had up on a pedestal all these years before he met me in person, ate steak and drank vodka and liked Pepsi. [Laughter] He was flabbergasted at the worldliness and the lack of refinement of the way I treated my body, my casualness at dealing with food and drink. He’s so very careful about everything he puts in his body. So he didn’t stay too long at our house because it wasn’t working. But we have a professional regard for one another that’s been unbroken. We’ve always kept a good friendship going on the professional level. We’re glad to work together at any time. I always support him and he always supports me, and we’re aiming at the same thing.

Definitely. You could tell that. He was the one who led me to you. Like I said, he was a turning point in my seeking. He really brought me out of the fear of world conspiracies and all these dark, brooding things that were consuming me and brought me to your material for which I’m so grateful.

Living the Law of One

Well, I think that trying to live the Law of One is my challenge in this second part of my life. I think there is wonderful energy around now. More and more I hear people say we need to create a lifestyle we can sustain. I think that under the radar of world politics and economics and the corporate ruling of the world that exists at that level—and naturally it does make a difference to all of us that it’s happening—still, below the radar, people living in their homes, looking at their local area, can begin to figure ways that they personally can live a more sustainable lifestyle—grow more of their own food, develop more of their own energy, have a smaller footprint one way or another. And I think this energy of being stewards of the Earth and having respect for sustainability is going to continue to grow in the grassroots, not necessarily in world leadership. I think the pressure to change is going to come from the bottom up.

I think it’s coming. I think the green movement is well established. That’s one of the most popular investments in Silicon Valley. All the rich guys are throwing a lot of money into the green movement, if you will, bio-diesel and things like that.

We have to, because even such a simple thing as peat moss is not sustainable. Whereas a fellow named Will Allen has figured out that if you ship over some shipping containers of coconut shells and grind them up, you have the same critters, the same enzymes, you’ve got the same living things as peat moss has, but it’s very sustainable because there are a thousand million coconut shells that fall every year and nobody wants them. So it’s waste material that’s being recycled.

That’s the kind of energy that I run across. A recent article I wrote 8 was about Will Allen. As for sustainability, you can start anywhere, in any part of the life in which we all live, that we all have in common, and you can figure out how to sustain instead of using up the last remaining resources on Earth. That’s what we at L/L Research are trying to do. We’re trying to develop a biodynamic farm.

It all goes slowly, but just the fact that you set the intention and have that energy going, I think, adds into the planetary energy field in such a way that it improves the harvest and improves the possibility of other people waking up. Everything that you do like this all adds in.

I think so too.

There’s nothing that you do that’s wasted. One thing I learned was during a period, from 1988 to around 1992, where I was bedridden, I didn’t stop traveling, but I had to travel in the back of the truck and then get out and get into a hospital bed where I was going to teach and teach from the bed, because I couldn’t sit up. A lot of people were uncomfortable with my needs and didn’t really like the idea of my teaching from the bed so I didn’t get to teach as much in those years.

But one thing I learned during that time was that it makes no difference if you cannot exercise your outer gifts, because the main gift that we all came to bring is our being, just being who we are. If you hold the space that allows light to flow through you, if you’re an instrument and you let spirit play you, you can do this from your death bed, you can do this from your sick bed; you can do this from being completely immobilized. It does not matter.

I think it’s so important for people to realize that it’s not what you do but who you are that really matters. That is really the heart of your gift. I have a lot of outer gifts. Thank the Lord, I was given some gifts to share in this incarnation. But I promise you that the biggest gift is my gift of being willing to do whatever it takes to tune my instrument every day so that I’m not clogged up with self-pity or fear or whatever, and I’m at a point where the Creator can use me, can funnel through me those energies of joy and peacefulness and love. It’s all about love.

This isn’t really helping you with your social networking, I know.

Oh, we’re in the personal side of things, but this is wonderful. To round out that area, I guess, you did touch on harvest a bit, and I know the Confederation says they’re not too concerned with it and they don’t want to talk too much about it, but I think that the way that you ended 101 was fantastic. You actually had me in tears—one of many times. The quote from Q’uo from February ’08 about bringing the population to a spiritual tipping point—I was so happy to read that, it was just beautiful. 9

What are your overall thoughts around harvest? Do you have updates?


Well, I think that I will be revisiting all the material. And we do generate new stuff about 2012 all the time because of the fact that so many people want to ask about it, so we keep getting new channelings on it. But as it comes closer and closer I think the basic truth is still the same: that if you focus on where the love is in the moment and you cooperate with it, or, if there is no love in the moment, you find a way to be the love in the moment, that is really your one and only necessity in order to graduate.

I don’t believe that 2012 is the date where everybody graduates. I think it’s the date on which the planet graduates. That’s the deal. Our environment is leaving us behind as far as third density, which is waning very much. As of 2012 we’re going to be so heavily interpenetrated with fourth density light that I think only those people who are wired third density/fourth density—dual wiring—are going to be able to use this time. I imagine there is going to come a time, I’d say within the next three or four hundred years—one channeling said maybe as long as 800 but I don’t know, it’s just a guess—when there won’t be any souls that will incarnate on third-density Planet Earth because the opportunities to take care of the people will be long gone. And more than that, the chance to clean up the mess we’ve made of third-density Earth will also have retired. It will no longer be the mess that it is now. It will be the best we can do and for the rest, it will just be time that will take care of a lot of this stuff. Things have a half-life, even if it’s thousands of years long. The planet will heal. But there are things that people can do to improve the planet’s life that are pretty effective.

I think that will continue and I think third density will limp along for a while. But people will be increasingly drawn into fourth density instead of still staying with third. So I imagine that this is the latter days on Planet Earth, third density. And it’s an exciting time to be alive. It’s the last chance for so many people to make it out of this grade. They can repeat the grade, and have 75,000 years of McLife again, and have their little jobs and they’ll gradually get to the point where they’re not satisfied with fast food and fast living, easy answers and so forth. You begin to get it. You begin to wake up. But so you repeat a grade.

But in the long run it’s a very short course, 75,000 years, when you look at the millions of years for all the other densities. So there’s no real penalty for not making graduation at this time. The thing of it is, it’s just so much more fun to have all those options. If you click on the third-density menu, you have a set of options, but it’s not that long.

If you click on fourth-density options, there are just reams and reams of options, because the light is different. It holds more information. That’s what they’re talking about when they say “density.” They’re talking about the density of the light. So gradually people will want to go with that larger menu. I think there are lots of people that are on the verge of waking up at this point. I almost think that there’s still a chance for a “hundredth monkey” effect to happen.

Interesting. That’s what I want to help support as well.

Exactly. And we want to do it in an intelligent way, to support it, not by creating a whole new dogma. And you’re totally not doing that. You’ve said that you don’t want to create material, you want to create options—so good for you. I think you’re on the right track.

Final Thoughts

Well, thank you. I don’t have anything else specific. I’m sure I could talk to you all day. Do you have any specific questions? Is there anything else you want to talk about? This has been great, I love this.

No. I’m thrilled that you’re doing the work and I wish you all the wonderful inspiration and help from the unseen realms that you could possibly have. I’m sure you’ve called in your guidance system and asked your angels to help you and so forth. Don’t ever short-change the unseen help you have! But you do have to ask it for help and you do have to thank it, so do that.

Also, as you go, take the time to be silent within your natural environment and let all of the natural environment help you. All these things will make you more human as you develop more spiritual maturity and have more of a feeling for being a member of the tribe of humankind on Planet Earth. There’s a pride to that. There’s an honor to that.

That’s great. That’s beautiful. I definitely need to spend more time sitting in silence. I’ve been trying to find a way to get myself to meditate regularly and I’m getting there.

Sometimes a shortcut is to use nature and not go, “Okay, I’ll meditate now,” and follow your breath, although that works. But try just putting your iPod down. Find a place where there are more trees than people, and go hug a tree, and then hug another tree, and then walk a couple more steps and find a fallen log to sit on, and listen for a while, and then get up and hug another tree and ask it for its help, just interact and be a bozo. [Laughter] Then you begin to wake up that we really are alive, that this tree loves me, this other tree loves me too, and you know what, I can feel that energy. And you start having this sense of yourself as part of the dance, and it’s something that’s wonderful.

The thing about silence is that in silence you’ve got the information but you don’t have words. The consciousness that we all have in common is the consciousness of the Creator. We don’t have separate consciousnesses. We have separate minds, we have separate intellects. We can ignore our consciousness throughout our entire life. But when you cast aside the intellect long enough to get beneath the busy monkey-mind, you are entering a consciousness that is the consciousness of unconditional love.

It is the original Logos, the one original thought of the Creator. And all the information, all the answers to every question you’ll ever have—it is all in that silence. And when you are attending to that silence, when you are giving it honor and respect, even if just for five minutes, you are accepting this information into the roots of your consciousness and you are given information that will bubble up into your conscious mind any way that it can—dreams, visions, so forth.

So that is the deal regarding silence. It contains information. When I go into my channel mode, I am pulling, not words at all, but rather balls of concepts. And I feel inadequate to the task of expressing in words the almost infinite concepts. And so I sort of roll it out and I cookie-cutter some words out. And I get some of what they’re trying to give through me. But I never get all of it.

If I could somehow leave it in conceptual form and still attend to it, I would have a much more full awareness, a much more full knowledge and understanding. But I don’t have that capacity. We humans don’t tend to have that capacity. We can’t hold it. We have to shape it into some kind of words, something that goes into the basket of the intellect and can be processed by the intellect. We have to have that.

So in the silence, you’re not trying to cookie-cutter up the information. You’re saying, “Okay, fill me up and I’ll process it the best I can with my dreams and my visions and my active life, so please, please, fill me up.” So you just open up to the silence. You’re opening to the Creator. It’s very direct. Meditation is not a mystery. People have made a mystery out of it by saying, “You’re going to get this and that result and this is how you get that result.” And except for Transcendental Meditation—which gives you a way to relax, and it works, but it’s a limited thing 10—it’s all basically hype.

The truth of that silence is that it enters the roots of your mind and it bubbles up according to your personal distortions and your personal areas of interest, so that you don’t know how it’s going to come up into your waking consciousness. You just know that if you’ve given yourself time in silence, like I said, five or ten minutes a day, and you’ve set your intention to harvest the information in that silence, you will have results. Set the intention, go out, hug a tree, come back, okay, I’m done for the day. It’s really not that hard. I encourage you to try it, because the eventual benefits of the practice done in a consistent daily manner will be beyond your wildest expectation.

Well, I think you’ve inspired me to make this my first day to get my routine.

Good luck.

Thank you very much. This has been wonderful. I wish you the best in your work. Continue doing great things.

Well, thank you Ben. I just open to whatever is supposed to come through. It isn’t me, it’s just coming through. I’m just the one that writes it down.

Well, you do a great job. I look forward to your next book and thanks again. Take care and have a great day.

  1. In other words, people who visit our web sites or read our books. 

  2. Ben talked with me as part of his process of setting up a web site which targets newly awakened seekers. He was hoping to refine his target areas. I could not help him with that since I have observed that people awaken in all stages of the physical lifetime, from childhood through to elderhood. 

  3. That link is 

  4. The website for the book, The Cultural Creatives: How 50 Million People Are Changing the World, by Paul H. Ray, Ph.D. and Sherry Ruth Anderson, Ph.D.,, describes, in Ben’s words, “After much research, I now personally feel that Wanderers make up a large sub-group of the Cultural Creatives.” 

  5. The Seth Material, and many other books by Jane Roberts, are still available in paperback. 

  6. The Astonishing Power of Emotions, and many other books channeled by Esther Hicks from a source called Abraham, are available in paperback. 

  7. Ben is speaking of David Wilcock. 

  8. For the blog, “A Small Medium at Large” on, UPI’s spiritual article site. Normally I write an article every week or two. To subscribe to these articles, go to

  9. The quote Ben mentions is from Chapter 12 of Living the Law of One–101: The Choice: “This group has been consistently offering a voice of love and it continues to do so at this time. At first this voice was heard by very few. It would surprise this instrument and the one known as Jim to know how far the voice of love that they have been able to offer through their instruments has carried. It has indeed carried to the ends of the Earth. It has done its part in bringing the planetary population of Earth close to a tipping point.” 

  10. Go to for more information.