You’re listening to the Blissrunner Podcast, Episode No. 13

This podcast is for any woman who has ever had a challenge in her sex life, whether you’ve lost interest in sex in your long-term relationships, orgasms have become illusive, or you’ve just been longing for something more, something deeper, you can’t quite even articulate: this podcast is here to help. In this show, we’ll explore how you can transform your experience of sex by learning the subtle art of awakening your sexual energy. Now, this is not just woo-woo stuff—it’s tangible and it’s having a profound effect on women’s lives. We’ll hear stories from women like you and me who’ve moved from lack of sexual enjoyment to incredible expanded, ecstatic states by accessing this energy inside. We’ll also talk to authors, teachers, and practitioners in the field for guidance on how you can get started on this deeply gratifying journey. I can tell you that it has completely changed my life, and I know it can enrich yours. I’m really glad you’re here.

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the show. This is the final episode in the first season in the Blissrunner Podcast, and I can’t believe we’ve already arrived here. I’ve been having such a wonderful time getting to interview all these marvelous authors and experts, and remarkable women who’ve shared their stories with us. So, before I start Season 2 of the podcast, I’m going to take about a month off, although “off” is not the right word, because I’ll still be working away on all the other Blissrunner pieces and parts. Please be sure to subscribe on iTunes so that you won’t miss any future episodes, and if you haven’t already, you can subscribe to my newsletter and I’ll let you know when things start again.

Today’s guest is a little bit of a departure from my previous guests, in that he’s going to be speaking primarily to the metaphysical aspects of sexual energy. More and more these days I find myself wanting to go deeper into my understanding of what this sexual energy is all about, and this guest is going to help us talk about that. His name is Jim McCarty, and he’s one of the individuals responsible for bringing forth channeled material, known as The Law of One, or sometimes called The Ra Material. This material was channeled during more than 100 sessions held during the early 1980’s with Carla Rueckert, who was the channel; Don Elkins, who was the questioner; and Jim McCarty, our guest today, who was the scribe.

Included within the information presented within these sessions was a fair amount of material about the nature of sexual energy, and Jim is going to share with us his insights as to those teachings, both based on decades of research and study in this field, but also based on his own relationship with Carla Reuckert which spanned more than three decades, and in which they shared a very unique and beautiful sacred sexual relationship. So, let’s join our conversation.

Welcome to the show, Jim, it’s such an honor to have you here.

It’s my pleasure to be here.

I think that what we’ll start with to give the listeners a little bit of an understanding of where we’re going, why don’t you tell us a little bit about L/L Research, what it is that you do, and how you came to do this work?

Okay, Well, L/L Research started back in, I guess, 1968 would be the time when Don and Carla first came together. They were together for 12 years before I joined. Don was interested in UFO’s and the paranormal from the time he was a high school senior. That was in 1947. He was taking flying lessons from Capt. Tom Mantell, a member of the Kentucky National Guard, and it turned out that there was an unidentified flying object that was reported around Mayfield, Kentucky, when Capt. Mantell just happened to be in the air with two other pilots, and they asked him to check it out. He checked it out and ended up crashing and dying after chasing a UFO, which made national news. Since he was the one giving Don flying lessons, Don, all of the sudden, became interested in UFO’s because Capt. Mantell was 25 and Don was 17, so they were not that far apart in age, and they had become friends. So, for the rest of his high school and into his college years, he studied everything he could in the way of physics, chemistry, and physical sciences, trying to figure out the nature of the universe—how it all worked.

So, he went through the University of Louisville and got degrees in mechanical engineering, but he also did regressive hypnosis then, probably over 200 sessions, to try to figure out if reincarnation really was the way things worked, and for him, he proved it to himself. People just had one life after another, and it just seemed to corroborate the way it all worked.

So then, in 1961, he was still a professor at the University of Louisville, and he’d gotten information from a fellow in Detroit who had a channeling group—a meditation group that channeled supposed extraterrestrial sources, because of a face-to-face encounter the fellow who was leading the group had had with a UFO entity about two years previous, and this entity had stayed with him in a telepathic contact. Some of the early contacts back in the 50’s had this quality of a lingering telepathic contact that would remain with the earth person who had the experience. So, in the channel, they gave information about how other people could form meditation groups that would have the opportunity, perhaps, to channel extraterrestrial sources. And this information made its way to Don, and Don was very interested in it, so he decided to try an experiment. At the time, he was a professor of physics at Louisville, and his class at the Speed Scientific School was all male at that time (it’s all co-ed now) but he got together twelve of the guys and decided to have an experiment. One of the guys said, “Well, can I bring my girlfriend?” He said, “Sure,” and it turned out to be Carla Rueckert.

So, they had two or three meditation meetings a week, and Don didn’t tell them what they were going to do. He was a scientist and he was trying to see if this would happen on its own. Most of the guys did get what we call “conditioning.” They began to feel a presence, their hearts started beating faster, they started sweating a bit, they got pressure in their forehead, maybe their tongue started moving or their mouth started opening and shutting, and some of them said later that they were getting words, but nobody wanted to say anything because they were afraid they were making it up, that it was all imagination in their head. So, finally the fellow from Detroit came down and sat in on the group, and he channeled his source, who was trying to get through to these folks, and they said, “We have contact with you, but you all want so much control over the experience, that nobody is saying anything. If you would just say the words in your mind as they come to you, then analyze it after it’s over, then it will work. If you try to analyze it while it’s going on, then it will stop.”

So, this is how Don and Carla met, and that was in 1962. Carla had a marriage to her boyfriend between [1962 and 1968] that didn’t work out, and so she eventually returned to Louisville, and Don was still working with the meditation group, and they got together in 1968 then. That is how L/L Research began with investigations into the paranormal in general, and into UFO’s and channeling in particular.

There is a great deal of information about all of this history and all of the discoveries made along the way on your website, It’s a vast library of information and resources and I recommend that if you’re curious about any of this, to head over there because you’ll find all kinds of information.

So, bring us then forward to between the late 60’s and the early 80’s. That phase was primarily focused on this meditative research, trying to make contact, and also exploring other paranormal phenomena out in the world. Is that right?

Yes. Carla, interestingly enough, was the only one in that group who initially did not learn how to channel at that time. She liked the messages, she loved silent meditation, but it would be twelve years before she actually learned how to channel in 1974. By that time, all of the guys who were members of the group had either gotten jobs, gotten married, moved out of town, or for one reason or another were no longer available for channels, and Carla had joined Don in 1968 so by the time ‘74 rolled around and Don was the only channel left, he said, “Well, free lunch is over, Carla, it’s time for you to learn how to channel.“

So she was reluctant?

Yes, she was a reluctant channel. She didn’t have anything against it at all, it was just that she would rather sit and listen and meditate silently. So, in 1974 they began sessions with other folks who were interested in forming a meditation group, and she did learn how to channel, and a book Voices of the Confederation came out of that effort, where it wasn’t exactly Don teaching her how to channel, although he did do that, but it was the Confederation sources that they channeled at that time that were the ones who actually taught her how to channel.

So, besides that, Carla also had rheumatoid arthritis and had problems with her kidneys. She’d had a near-death experience when she was 13—her kidneys failed. So, she had some health problems and she and Don would travel to various places looking for what we would call “alternative forms of healing”—psychic surgery in the Philippines and in Mexico City. In Mexico City they ran into a woman by the name of Pachita, and she had learned the healing skills on the battlefield with Poncho Villa when there were various battles going on in that area when they were fighting for the independence of their particular part of Mexico. She was able to repair Carla’s kidney by…well, they said it seemed like she created the kidney, because they put out a call for a kidney in Mexico City, and all of them were taken by traditional medical facilities who were trying to implant kidneys into other patients. So Dr. Andrija Puharich was there, he was the one who brought Uri Geller to the United States, and he was with Don and Carla, along with a few other folks, and he said that to him, what was in this little glass container looked like renal material, but it wasn’t a kidney. However, Pachita was able to utilize it as a kidney and it solved Carla’s problems. Whatever it was, it solved Carla’s problems.

Then, several years later, they traveled to Manila in the Philippines and ran into a fellow named Benji Bellacano who was a psychic surgeon, and he worked on Carla in some minor ways. I guess there three growths on her good kidney that had not had a problem in the past, and he removed those, and Don had some surgery. So, they investigated psychic surgery of one kind or another.

When they went to the Philippines did they have particular maladies in mind that they wanted worked on, or was it more that they presented themselves, and the psychic surgeons found these things in the body to work on?

Well, both. They had certain things they wanted to work on—for example, when they saw Pachita, Carla wanted to have her arthritis worked on, but Pachita said it was her kidneys that were the problem—that that was where her arthritis came from. It was the same in the Philippines with Benji Bellacano. He found the root cause of symptom that they thought was actually the problem, so in both cases they went with the idea of getting one thing fixed, and they did get that repaired, but it was because of a more basic cause. So, they did that, and then in later years they examined the concept of mediumship—the type of healing that can come from a person who serves as a medium, and produces ectoplasm—the smoky, cigarlike substance that comes out of their mouth, and that you can communicate also with relatives that have passed on into the spirit world, or with other entities.

There was a fellow by the name of James Tingley, up in Camp Chesterfield, Ohio, that Don and Carla went to see. They investigated a lot of people that said they could do that, but they found more frauds than they did the real thing. But where there’s smoke, there’s fire, and they found the real thing when they found James Tingley, and they were able to communicate with Don’s mother. In the family, she was known as Sister, and she was able to take this gauzy, smoke-like substance and to form it around a body that looked exactly like she did when she was incarnate, and Don said he could even see the hairs on her head and the lines on her face and so forth, and so he talked to her, and she thanked Carla for taking such good care of Don. Now, at the time, Carla didn’t know what Don’s mother looked like, didn’t know this was Don’s mother. On the way home when Don was flying them back home, he took those lessons so he was a pilot, and said, “Do you know who Sister is?” And she said, “I don’t know any nuns, no, I don’t know who Sister is.” And Don said, “No, that was my mother.”

So, then, there was one other entity they met there—he said he was Moses. He formed this imposing image who could well be Moses, the long hair and the robes, and so forth, and just to show that he was real, he hit Carla on the wrist, hard enough to leave a bruise, then he walked through her, turned around and walked back through her, and raised his hands and said, “Go forth and teach.” And then he pooled into a little puddle on the floor and was gone. So, they investigated that and found James Tingley really was the real thing in that field, so they were interested in a lot of different things.

Yes, oh my gosh, there is so much here that we could probably talk for a full week on all of this stuff, it’s so fascinating. What did Carla feel when the entity passed through her?

She didn’t feel much of anything. She was just amazed that he was disappearing through her body. She was just overwhelmed by the fact that there was this entity who had been talking to her and had just slapped her on the wrist, and was moving through her body and back through. But, there were so many things that happened during the time that Don and Carla spent together, that after a while, she wasn’t so overwhelmed because she began to understand more, not exactly the physics, but the metaphysics, the spiritual reality behind it all.

Right. That the strange was really the normal.


Wow. Okay, so, it was shortly after that that she decided to go ahead and learn how to channel, and bring us forward then in time to when the time period of the Ra contact began, and your entry into this circle that really allowed this to take place.

Okay. Like I said, 1974 was the year Carla learned how to channel. Coincidentally, that was the year that I moved to Kentucky. I was originally from Nebraska, and I was an old hippie at the time, and I was part of the back-to-the-land movement where the old hippies had decided, “Well, let’s simplify our lives. Let’s take Theroux’ idea of ‘simplify, simplify’ and buy some land, build our own homes, have children, homeschool the children, and work together in cooperative communities.”

So, I had decided to do that, I’d bought some land and I’d built a log cabin and I was off the grid, but one evening I had my little battery-powered radio turned on to Station WKQQ in Lexington, Kentucky, and they were interviewing Don Elkins and Carla Reuckert on the topic of UFOs, and I was actually fascinated because they were talking about the philosophy that was being promulgated by the entities in the UFOs, not just what the UFOs looked like, or how many there were, or how they landed, or anything like that. So, I said to myself, “I’ve got to meet these folks.”

But it took me, I guess, a full eight months to figure out how to do that. Well, I didn’t go around with a plan, I just remembered them, and we had food-buying coops and we would place our orders every two weeks and get together and talk and have our meals and so forth, and I met some folks from the other side of the same county I lived in, and we were talking about UFOs and channeling, and I said, “You know, I heard an interview a couple of months ago about Don Elkins and Carla Reuckert…” “Oh, yeah, we know them, we’re part of that group, we can introduce you.” So, that was how I met Don and Carla.

For the next year, then, I drove up from my little place in central Kentucky to Louisville, about 70 or so miles, and I was part of their Sunday night meditation. They lived inside downtown metro Louisville at the time, and had been there for 12 years in an apartment where they had these meditation meetings. But, when I joined them, when I started coming to their meditations, they were getting ready to move to the outskirts of Louisville, to a really nice one-story house, oddly enough built in the shape of an “L” sitting on six acres of land, and I helped them move. And in that time, coming to the meditations, and helping them move, we became very good friends, and they invited me to join them.

I had been on the mailing list of another meditation group in Oregon for about five years, and I said, “Well, I really appreciate your offer, but I’m heading out to Oregon this fall and I’m going to be part of that group out there.”

Don said, “Well, if you change your mind, this is a standing offer.”

So, in October of 1980 I drove out to Oregon and I spent about three months out there, and I really enjoyed the folks, it was everything that I’d hoped it would be, but, I had a chance to earn a whole lot of money, which kind of confused me, because that wasn’t the reason I went out there, so I thought, “If I take this that I’m being offered, I might not be able to pursue my spiritual path the way I want to.” So, I told the folks, I’m going to take the weekend off and meditate, and see what to do. So, about 30 seconds into my meditation I got a very clear image across the cloudless sky of my inner field of vision, that said, “Return to Louisville and join Don and Carla.”

So, I drove 2,500 miles back to Louisville and joined Don and Carla on December 23, 1980. And we thought at the time that the first thing we would do would be to rewrite their book, Secrets of the UFO, which was a summary of Don’s 25 years of investigating UFOs. So, for the next three weeks I was doing some research and one day I—I was doing the cooking for the group of three at the time—so I was out buying some groceries when Carla and Don were holding an intensive meditation to help a student learn how to channel. So, there were three of them there, and it turned out that was the first Ra contact.

Three weeks after I got there. Carla had gone into trance, apparently, and I came back just as Don was asking about the coming earth changes. If you look at the first session, there’s a place there where he asks about what they will be like, and Ra said, “We must pause to deepen this instrument’s state,” because I had just walked through the door and interrupted the first Ra contact, and had groceries in my arms, and I saw a session was going on, so I just walked on down the hall into the kitchen and put the groceries away.

Afterward, I had never seen Don so excited in his life. He was a very laconic kind of fellow. This world did not impress Don a lot—he thought people were pretty much crazy, and that they were going all kinds of directions with their emotions, and so he just took things cool and easy, but he was excited! And he said, “We’ve got to get this transcribed! Can you transcribe this right away?” And I said, “Right now?” And he said, “Yeah, we really have to get this transcribed.” So, I did, and as I was transcribing it, I saw why he was excited, because it was just a huge leap forward in the kind of information that we’d ever gotten from any other source.

Right, wow! How exciting! So how was it then determined that it would be the three of you—it sounds like there was another person who was present during that first contact?

There was one other person present, and he did come to another session. All together, I think three people attended a total of four sessions, otherwise, it was just Don, Carla and I. We discovered, as Ra said, three was the minimum number that was necessary for protection and support of the instrument. There could be more, but they had noted that it seemed to be most efficient with just the three of us. And, there really wasn’t anybody else that said, “Oh, can I be part of your sessions?” That was just not what happened. What happened was we seemed to come together for this purpose—that a lot of things just seemed to fall into place as if they were puzzle pieces that had been put together in some other place and time, and taken apart, and here they were being reassembled, was the feeling of the whole thing. So, that’s the way it worked.

What is your understanding now about what made Carla able to receive this contact at that time? Do you think she’d been undergoing psychic preparation for a number of years, apart from the fact that she’d been practicing channeling for a little while? What was your understanding of why this level of an entity was able to come through?

Well, it seems to be due to a number of factors. She seemed to have a gift for leaving her body that we never understood how it worked, but she could do it. But, previous to this session, there was a couple in the meditation group that had been there for years, and while I was in Oregon that fall, one of them passed away. She’d been sick for a long time and she told her husband, Tom, “When I’m on the other side in the spirit world, I will contact you and let you know that I’m okay.” And she gave him some information then, “I’ll tell you about this.” So, when she passed away, Tom asked Carla if she would be willing to try to contact Elaine.

Carla said, “I’ll give it a try.” And this was the first time that Carla had gone into trance, and it happened twice. Tom asked her to do it a second time and then she said, “It’s really wearing on me, I don’t want to do it again, I hope you’ve gotten everything you need.”

And he said, “Yes, I got everything Elaine said she’d give me so I’m satisfied.” But Ra later said that it was those two sessions of trance that had really prepared Carla for the Ra contact. They were kind of like a tuning, just getting ready.

And also, there was such a harmony between the three of us that we did not have to work at. It was like a gift, that we had been together elsewhere so long or so many times that everything was just so smooth and easy and balanced between us. We all had certain parts and ways of contributing to the group, and that harmony, Ra said, was also most important for sustaining the Ra contact.

The third thing was Carla, since she was a baby, had this great desire to be of service to the Creator. When she was two years old, she could go to a magic garden. I guess this was the first time she actually left her body, but she had a birth defect when she was born. Her right eye was pointed towards her brow, and by the time she was 15 or 16 months, they could do a basic surgery to try to correct it. She wore glasses from the age of two. So, one day, her mother put her down for a nap next to the window, and she closed the blinds, and Carla took her glasses off and put them in the blinds. She noticed before she went to sleep that the sunlight from outside shone through the lens of her glasses in a certain way that created a beam of light, and she was able to slide out of her body, apparently, on that beam of light and go to a magic garden.

And in that magic garden, she saw Jesus. And Jesus never said a word to her—he just looked into her eyes and he held her hands, and when he did that she said she knew exactly what unconditional love was. So, from that point forward, she was totally dedicated to Jesus, and to serving the Father, the Creator, and so that was a factor that was most important also for the Ra contact—her great desire to be of service to God, the Creator, and to do it by communication, specifically, by channeling. So, those factors, her ability to go into trance, the harmony in our group, and then her great desire to be of service to the Creator, were the factors that seemed to allow the Ra contact to occur.

I see. Wow, that’s wonderful. I’d never heard that story about when she was a small child.

She had that happen a number of times. When she was five she told her mom and dad about it, and they said, “Well, you’re making that up, it’s not real, it didn’t really happen.” So, it never happened again after that, but she still remained a follower of Jesus for the rest of her life.

Let’s begin to introduce the idea of how sexuality and sexual energy played into this. My understanding, or my recollection from reading the Ra Material is that it was first brought up as a means for teaching you, as a group, to help Carla maintain her physical vitality so that the communications could continue. Am I understanding that right?

Well, that’s the way it worked, but we weren’t taught it. Ra didn’t tell us about it, we just discovered it. All of the Ra contact was based upon our free will. They could only give us hints and clues about various things that were important because we needed to make those choices ourselves, and not have somebody make them for us, because when somebody else makes choices for you, then you lose the strength that comes from making your own choices. So, what happened, was that Don and Carla had been together, like I said, for twelve years, but Don didn’t really go along with a lot of the practices of the planet. He wasn’t into marriage, he wasn’t into children, and after the first six months, he wasn’t really into sex either. He said, “Would you mind if I really prefer to be celibate?”

So, Carla said, “Okay. I’ll try it too.” And, she tried it for a while but it didn’t work for her.

Fortunately, when I came along, she and I had this natural chemistry, and it bloomed like a desert rose, I guess you could say. So, we had this chemistry and we’d shared intimacy, sexual energy exchanges, but at the time we didn’t call them that, we didn’t know that they were that. But, we discovered that when we had sex the night before a Ra session, that session would be much longer than if we didn’t. So, we finally figured it out, somewhere around Session 17 that there was a relationship between having sex and the sessions being longer. So, at that point, then we began to ask some questions and to get some information about how it worked.

Oh, I see, okay. So, tell us a little bit about what you learned. About how it was explained—the various energy centers, the chakras in the body, and the activation, and the blockages that can prevent the transfer from taking place. Can you sort of give us a primer on that?

I’ll do my best. There’s a lot of information that goes into it. The basic thing is that what energy is being exchanged is called “vital energy.” And, it’s the combined energy of the mind, body, and the spirit, used in a spiritual or metaphysical sense, not just to go out and play. It doesn’t work with one-night stands. It has to be committed. It has to have a purpose behind it. It has to be spiritually oriented.

Now, these three mind, body and spirit energies, then, are available only if both entities have reached their heart chakra, the green-ray energy center. You have to make it through the red one, which deals with sex and with survival, and the orange ray deals with one-to-one relationships at an emotional level with one other person, intensely, one at a time, and then the yellow ray deals with groups—you as part of a group energy expanding, the energies are expanding as we go up the energy centers. Then what we’re all trying to do on Planet Earth in order to make the graduation into fourth density, is to get into the heart chakra, so that we have a universal love for all people and all things—we attempt to see the Creator everywhere, we attempt to see love everywhere, because they are everywhere.

This is what we learned in the Ra contact, and this is the great challenge of this third density, is to find the Creator and to find love everywhere. So, once two people, with male and female energies—which is usually a male and a female, but not always, just male and female energies is the important thing—so, once you have those two people in a committed relationship, and have their green ray energy centers open, then sexual energy exchanges become possible. The way it seems to work is that you can store a lot of energy by foreplay, by delaying orgasm for as long as possible. If you want to store a lot of energy, that’s what you do.

Now, in order to release the energy, there are two ways that the energy can be doubled, shall we say, that you can increase the amount of energy, besides delaying it and storing it through foreplay. If both of you dedicate the love making to the Infinite Creator, and to service to the Creator, that will also double the energy that is exchanged when you have orgasm. The second way, is if you both have orgasm at the same time, the energy is also doubled, so you can magnify that energy greatly by dedicating the energy exchange to the service to the Creator, and by having orgasm simultaneously. It doesn’t always work that way, sometimes it’s one and then the other, but that’s basically the way it works.

And the energy transfers even if you don’t have simultaneous orgasm, but it would just not be as intensified? Is that right?

Right, the energy is transferred—both people get the energy, both people contribute to the energy, and both people get the total of the energy, so there’s a lot of energy that can be transferred there. And, if you have been able to go higher, say into the blue ray, the throat chakra of communication and inspiration, the energy is also increased and becomes of a different nature, and the same if you get to the brow, the indigo ray, and the violet ray, and so forth. You have to have the green ray open for a positively oriented entity in order for there to be an energy exchange possible.

Can you explain the difference between chakra activation, and blockages. I know that in these discussions of the effect that you might see between an individual who is green ray activated, and one who is, say, blocked in their orange or yellow ray, where they get stuck in sort of a perpetual, insatiable state of just wanting more. Can you talk a little bit about activation versus blockage?

Okay. In both the orange and the yellow ray is where blockages can occur. Usually, Ra said that the red ray is not an area where we block—it’s a given, most of the time. The violet ray is also the same—it’s a given. The violet ray is a thermometer or an indicator, an index, of your overall balance of all your energy centers. But in the yellow and the orange ray, where we deal with groups in the yellow, and individual, one at a time, in the orange, is where blockages can occur. And Ra said the blockages usually take the form of either a desire to be possessed by the other person, or a desire to possess the other person, or a fear of possessing the other person, or a fear of being possessed. So there’s four different angles on possession, desire and fear. So in some degree, a blockage is created when there is any inkling of those types of mind configurations or emotional configurations as you are relating to another person. And that happens frequently, I’m sure. People are probably aware of that in their own experiences.

Yes, absolutely. So, are we imagining a scenario where an individual might be green ray activated but still have a blockage in their orange or yellow center because of one of these fears or desires?

Yes. You can be green-ray activated and still have a blockage there—maybe a momentary one, maybe you’re jealous of your partner’s relationship with somebody else in some fashion, or you’re afraid of something that’s going on there, or that they have that fear or misapprehension for you.

So one of the most important things that you do, if you want to be able to have the energy exchange, is maintain a clear communication in your relationship. It is really the most important thing that you can do, and Carla and I—well, I learned it from Carla, she taught me so much about all of this. I was not a good student for being a mate, I started at the very lowest state, but I had a very good teacher and she taught me a lot. She taught me everything I know, as a matter of fact. But we had a habit of never going to bed without resolving any difficulties—never let the sun set on an argument. Resolve it before—and I’m not just taking about going to bed to have sex, I’m talking about going to bed and going to sleep. Solve your problems of the day, that day. Don’t let them fester, don’t let them build, don’t let them be covered up by confusion or anger or anything. Talk, be clear, and that was really necessary, and like I said, she was so good at that. She didn’t necessarily teach me by teaching me, she taught me by doing it, and I learned by watching and experiencing with her. Yeah, you need to communicate, and you need to clear those energies below the heart. If there’s anything between the red ray up to the green ray, you’ve got to clear it out, or the energy exchange won’t happen. Sex may happen, but the energy exchange may not happen.

Right. Now, can you tell us the difference between the energy that’s transferred from the male to the female, versus the energy that’s transferred from the female to the male?

Yeah. This is something that took us a while to grasp because it’s based on the concepts of the archetypical mind, which is Book IV, which has crossed a lot of people’s eyes. But the male, apparently—this is the male principle, this isn’t the male biologically, usually biological males have this principle, and biological females have theirs, but we’re talking about a principle here. Ra said that each male is female, and each female is male, so we all have both those qualities. So, the male principle that we’re talking about is the reaching, just like the sun sends the rays of light to Earth and Earth reaches for those rays and accepts them, becomes vital and full of life because of the life-giving energy from the sun. So, with the male energy, the male principle, it reaches and attempts to share, and is able to revitalize the physical energy of the female, because most of the time females have less physical energy than males do. Now, the female has an excess of mental/emotional/spiritual energy, which the male doesn’t usually have as much as the female has. And I always think that the male got the better deal here because he gets the higher energies. That’s just my opinion. So, those are the energies that are transferred.

The female can transfer to the male the mental, emotional, and spiritual energies, and the male transfers to the female the physical energy. And by that exchange then both are enhanced and balanced so that they are a balanced being with female energies and principles circulating through their soul, their spirit body.

Okay, can you explain what your actual real-life experience has been of that energy transfer? Is it something that you’re aware of in the moment? Can you literally feel it happening, or is it more that you notice a long-term effect in your life from what’s happening over the course of time?

Well, the energies seem to be different according to how far you’ve been able to go with activating the energy centers green, blue and indigo. Ra said that if you’re at the green ray, you feel that love has been made whole, you feel the sense of love after the orgasm and the exchange that nourishes you, you feel vital, you feel re-energized, you feel just whole. If you’ve been able to open and activate the blue ray, then there is not just the feeling of wholeness, but there is also an inspiration, a clarity that as Ra said, “The eyes look upon a new world.” 1 You see things differently, you begin to experience them differently for a significant period of time. It’s not something that stays with you, usually, all the time.

And then, if you’re able to activate the indigo ray, the brow chakra, then there is the opportunity to feel what we would call a “transcendental joy,” or the “unity of the creation.” Well, we all know what an orgasm feels like in the genitals. Imagine that in your forehead. So, that’s pretty much what that’s like.

Now, is that—Gary, actually, asked me to ask you about that—about the brain orgasm. Is that something that you experience during this exploration with Carla, or was it something that you had experienced just on your own?

I had begun to experience it on my own. I had attended a survival school in Colorado in the Rocky Mountains back in 1972 a couple of years before I met Carla and Don, and it was a self-therapy program—brain self therapy. The theory of the guy who founded the school back in 1957, was that the human brain has a natural function of allowing the energies of the brain to flow into the frontal lobes once you remove certain blockages that are in the way.

Most people have three or four basic anti-life type blockages that they’ve been given by parents or teachers or some adult when they were a child, and they didn’t know they had the right to stand up to them and say, “That’s not right. I have a right to do this or that or whatever.” So, we used dream analysis and essaying and neurodramas to discover those blockages. Dreams usually gave us an indication, and we would write about it with an essay, and then we’d remember a traumatic experience as a child where we did not have the ability or the right to stand up and say, “No.” And then we would rewrite the script into a neurodrama and at that time we stood up and said, “No!” Shout, scream, cry, whatever you needed to do—get it out. That was about the time of Arthur Janos Primal Scream, if you remember that therapy. John Lennon was big into that. So, it was the same basic idea.

So, after going there, I had what was called “The Frontal Lobes Experience,” my frontal lobes opened up and my brain all of the sudden was alive, and I started to have these frontal lobes experiences which were—basically, it felt like an orgasm in the brain.

Hmm. So just an incredible pleasurable sensation in your brain?

Right. And frequently, there were also voices and visions that didn’t make any sense to me, I had a number of those, but when I joined Don and Carla then that was the first time I’d had a sexual mate. I didn’t have any mates between the time I went through that therapy, 1972 to 1974, so Carla was the one that I discovered this with, and what it was really like to share it with her.

Now, in the process of trying to open and activate the higher energy centers—the blue ray, the throat chakra, the fifth chakra, the sixth chakra—how would you go about trying to do that? Would it be part of the lovemaking process? Would it be an intention that you would set ahead of time? Would it be something you were working on in general in your life to try to activate?

Yeah, I would say, “Yes”, to most of what you just said. Ra gave us exercises, called “balancing exercises” that help you to do all of that simply by using the catalyst, or the experiences that come your way in your daily round of activities. The whole idea is that before our incarnation we set before ourselves certain lessons that we wanted to learn that would have a relationship to these energy centers, so that when we came across certain experiences on a daily basis we would be prone to see these in a certain light or with a certain bias, with a certain angle in mind so that we could use them for growth, the growth that we hope to have before we came into these incarnations.

So, the exercise that Ra said, was at the end of the day, when you are meditating, to look back on the day and to see what kind of experience you had that day that took you off your center, your center of being able to give and receive love with others. Again, this is assuming that you have your green ray open, or you’re hoping to open it. Anything that took you off your center is something that gave you a chance to find balance because when you’re off your center, you’re not on balance. So, if you were very impatient with someone at the grocery store, or driving a car and someone pulled in front of you, and you got angry and shouted at them, then the way you would work with that is in meditation you recreate the situation to cause the impatience, or the anger, and you would let it get huge in your mind, you would blow it up ridiculously, absurdly huge, and then for just a second, just a moment, you image the exact opposite, you image patience. Then, if you sit in meditation and allow that patience to build, it builds until it’s just as large, equally large, as the impatience was to start with. So, then you look at those two together and you accept yourself for having both of these means by which the Creator knows itself, and you know the Creator, contained within your being. You accept yourself for having both of these—you accept yourself for being a balanced entity.

You do that with whatever is facing you. You have a person, a friend, who dies, and you’re in great grief. Then you look to balance it with gratitude for the time you knew them, for the time you were together. You do that for as long as it takes for the balance to be achieved. If you’re having problems with—say you’re very disciplined in the work that you do, but sometimes you feel that you’re just too robot like and maybe you want to be a little bit more carefree, so you attempt to balance discipline with being carefree, or the other way around. It doesn’t matter which way you approach it, the idea is to get balance, so whatever happens in your daily round of activities then, you use that as what Baba Ram Dass would call “grist for the mill.” You use it to grow—that’s your food for growth for the day. It’s not by chance that what happens to you and the way you see it then is focused upon certain energy centers, because we have made those choices before the incarnation. According to Ra, and according to a lot of other people—Dr. Michael Newton, Dr. Brian Weiss—in life-between-life regressions we choose all of this. As Ra said, there are no mistakes, and there are no accidents. There are surprises, but there are no mistakes. So, in our daily round of activities we see, in a certain way, to bring us the opportunity to balance and activate certain energy centers.

It’s not that you set out to say, “Well, I’m going to open this energy center by doing this and this and this,” you just pay attention to what happens to you in your daily round of activities because you already planned that, it’s already in the works. Just pay attention.

Okay, I see. That’s fascinating. So, your life just shows you what you’re needing to work on and as long as you pay attention and balance it in the way that you described, then whatever activations are meant to occur, will evolve and occur.


So, bringing all that back into the sexual context and maybe you can help me where we need to go next in this discussion, but I want to understand what the effects would be as you are able to work with this catalyst and balance, and begin working in these higher energy centers, what would the effect be in your sexual relationship, and maybe this is where we begin talking about the concept of high sexual magic.

What happens then is that your energy centers, become more and more open. The more open your energy centers are as a result of your working on them with the balancing exercises on a daily basis, is that you are able to transmit more energy through them—more energy is available for your use. I had mentioned before that one way to double the energy exchange was to dedicate the experience of the sexual energy to the service of the One Creator in whatever way you could. What we did, of course, was we were having the Ra contact, so we had something very specific to dedicate it to. High sexual magic is basically a means by which two entities can become able to make a contact with the One Creator. The classic definition of magic is the ability to create changes in consciousness at will. Ra went just a little further with that and said magic is the conscious ability to gain access to the subconscious mind. 2 In each instance, you are attempting then, to have what the mystics and yogis and saints throughout the ages have called a “unitive experience”—an experience of the Creator in some fashion. It can be experienced in the green, the blue and the indigo ray, or even in the violet ray. So, what you’re attempting to do is to dedicate yourself to the service of the Creator, and also to experience the joy of union with the Creator at whatever level you can. So, that’s the magic. The magic is being able to raise your consciousness in a fashion that you are—I don’t want to really say, “directing it,” because you’re not directing or controlling it, you’re making yourself available, and you’re actually giving yourself over to it, but you are taking steps to allow it to occur, so you’re participating in moving in that direction, I guess that’s the best way to put it, because control is not a positive idea. Control is a negative idea, and that’s a whole other field, and I have no interest in it.

So, what you’re trying to do is to experience more joy and union with the Creator, to know more of the Creator’s will because doing the will of the Creator seems to have a great deal of spiritual satisfaction to it. It also raises your consciousness. So, that’s the whole thing. Some people who are perhaps not engaged in what we were, channeling entities, if they were engaged in high sexual magic, they would be having a certain ritualistic sexual experience that would be dedicated to a certain type of experience. That, I’ve not gotten into myself, so I can’t tell you a lot about it, but I know that other people can engage in high sexual magic by rituals that are recognized within white ceremonial magic. I couldn’t tell you about how to do that.

Right. What does sex look like in the real world for a couple that is evolving in this way? Is it to build up the sexual energy in the foreplay, and it sounds like it’s really about intention and commitment and communication. How does it play out?

Yeah, well, Carla described it as “playing in the fields of the Lord,” like children, playing, just having such a wonderful time, but doing it consciously, and feeling a real motivation to be of service, a motivation to experience the joy and to share the joy with another person—joy of feeling some unity of the Creator. Carla sometimes would have—well, multiple orgasms were pretty common for both of us, but especially for Carla. Sometimes, she would be having orgasms for 15 or 20 minutes. So, she felt that during that time that she was feeling a union with the Creator, and that she could see me as the Creator, and she could see everything as the Creator. After a while it just becomes beyond words. Ecstatic is a pretty easy description, but it doesn’t quite catch it.

Yes, exactly. And for yourself, did you have to, in order to experience multiple orgasms as a male, it requires a little bit more control, I guess, or learning to allow yourself to reach a level of pleasure without having an ejaculation. Is that something that you had to purposely train yourself to do, or did it just kind of happen naturally?

Well, it kind of happened naturally, I guess, because I really liked to delay because it always made things so much better. Carla now and then would say, “Would you just come, please?” Because it might have been one of those times that she had an orgasm before I did, and I was just playing and playing and playing, and she was saying, “Okay, now.” She was just joking when she said that, but I did like to delay and it was something that didn’t seem to be difficult to do.

Did either of you have any exposure or interest in Tantra as a practice?

Not really, but it’s kind of like what happened when we were successful at delaying long enough. We didn’t set out saying, “Let’s try some tantra yoga, tonight,” but if somebody had observed, they might have, “Well, you’re doing tantra yoga.”

Right. What can you say about the contrast between this sexual relationship that you had with Carla to the relationships you may have had in your past? Try and articulate what the difference is.

Oh, there’s so many differences. The differences were that I’d been through that brain self-control and it opened up my front lobes and I’d never done that with anybody before, and only Carla and I ever had sexual relations. We were faithful to each other so I’d never had sexual relations with anybody else with that ability available, so that, right away, is an unfair light shined upon any former partners. Also, as I’ve said, I was not a real good candidate for a mate to start with. It was interesting—well, I was raised as an only child, and when I was on the land by myself for six and one-half years, I never felt a day of loneliness. I’d always been happy to be alone, and when I first joined Don and Carla, that was a really good thing, because Don and Carla were the couple at that time. They’d been together for 12 years, and I enjoyed being by myself, so that worked out perfectly.

When Don passed away in 1984, then within two years Carla and I had decided that we were going to keep the work going, we were going to be together, it just made sense to get married because that’s the most powerful way to be together is in a committed relationship, so we did. But, I still had that flavor of a solitary nature and liking solitude, and it was something I had to work it, and fortunately she was patient enough with me to work with me because I was not, like I said, a good candidate for a one-on-one relationship. Don was a really good balance in Carla’s and my relationship because he could provide this—well, I don’t know if you’ve read in the Ra contact that there are some entities that can have a sexual fusion type relationship with another without having sex? Don and Carla were that kind. That’s what Don felt basically. So, I had to learn how to be with Carla, and it took me a little while, but once I finally graduated and saw the light, it was the most beautiful thing in the world, and I was so grateful that she was patient with me to take the time to teach me how to be a mate.

I think you’re probably a little hard on yourself.

Well, you don’t know. [laughs] I was not a good student.

Well, what would you say to anyone who’s interested in learning more about this, or trying to incorporate these principles into their life? Where would they begin? Meditating perhaps?

Meditation is always the best thing, I think, to do. That’s been the primary message from the Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator ever since we made contact with them back in 1961. Meditation is the way to get where you’re going. It’s the way to learn how to get to fourth density, it’s the way to learn how to get into good relationships, it’s the way to learn how to find the Creator within you. I say whatever your spiritual practice is, there are all kinds of ways of practicing meditation, and of moving along the spiritual path, of evolving in mind, body and spirit, find somebody to do that with, find somebody you’re totally committed to, and do it together.

So many of the people who are interested in the Law of One unfortunately don’t have a mate that they can share it with, and I guess that’s the case with spiritual seekers all over the world. Sometimes it doesn’t happen that you’re with somebody who is the same in their interests as you are. But, if you can, in any way whatever, share whatever your journey is with your mate, or your loved one, that’s the way to really get it, and just do it every day, make that the center of your day. Make it something greater than yourself that you’re both committed to. That’s the secret.

Actually, you bring up an interesting point, whether you had encountered anywhere in any of these teachings anything about the solo sexual energy? In my own experience, my initial introduction to the idea of sexual energy at all as being something separate from just the act, was during meditation alone, and I wasn’t in partnership at the time, and started to experience ecstasy within my own body and spirit and I’m curious if there’s any teachings out there about that experience.

There probably are, but I don’t know about them though. I’m afraid I don’t have any information on that, I’m sorry. Good for you, it sounds wonderful.

It was, it certainly spun my life off in a different direction than I expected.

Well, okay, I guess that will bring us to the end of this conversation. I encourage everyone to go to the website and just spend a long time reading information there, because there’s so much to learn and digest. Then, as Jim said, just turn inward, meditate, connect with your partner and see what you can discover.

Indeed. Everything on the website is free for downloads. If you want the books, we charge for the books, but everything we’ve ever produced is there for free if you want to download it.

What’s next for you, personally?

Well, I’m having more opportunities, like we’re doing right now, to speak to people, in podcasts, skype, I’ve been invited to do a couple of lectures here and there, so I guess getting out into the world, because Don, in the original days, was the one who did the talking. He was a natural teacher, he was a professor, and then after he passed away Carla just naturally took up the mantle and she was so beautiful when she was on. She could channel from her subconscious or whatever, she could inspire an audience, so now I’m going to try to do it on my own, and I guess that’s what’s up for me now.

Okay. Well, I think we’re at the end of the interview. I just can’t thank you enough for agreeing to do this.

Oh, it’s been my pleasure. I’ve really enjoyed it. It’s a real honor to be able to share information that we’ve gone through a number of years and experiences together and to help people out. It was always Don’s dream to be able to make this information available worldwide for free, and the internet allows us to do that.

So there you have it, everyone. The end of season one of the Blissrunner podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode. To see the show notes, head on over to my website at and look for Episode No. 13. While you’re there, pick up a copy of my free guided meditation. This is my version of the guided meditation that started this whole thing for me, and I want you to have it for free. Until next season, I remain, blissfully yours.

  1. “This energy transfer is of great benefit to the seeker in that all communication from this seeker is, thereby, refined and the eyes of honesty and clarity look upon a new world. Such is the nature of blue-ray energy and such is one mechanism of potentiating and crystallizing it.” #84.20 

  2. “Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious.” #79.33