Carla was interviewed by telephone by James Gilliland on “The World Puja Network” on Tuesday, January 25, 2011.

Greetings, this is James Gilliland from World Puja. 1 I’ve got a great show today. I just got back from Hawaii pretty refreshed, but it was a lot of work down there. We did some amazing things at The Earth Transformation Conference and had an amazing event there.

I’ve got Carla Rueckert on the show today and there are so many areas we can go into in this show. I’m going to shorten her bio because I have so much I want to talk about. She was hired by Don Elkins to do paranormal research. 2 They formally created The L/L Company in 1970. The name was changed to L/L Research in 1976, with the publication of their second finished book, Secrets of the UFO. Elkins and she wrote The Crucifixion of Esmerelda Sweetwater together. Carla’s other books include A Channeling Handbook, A Wanderer’s Handbook, A Book of Days, and Living The Law of One–101: The Choice. Carla has served as a vocal channel since 1974 and was the instrument for the five Law of One books. Carla continues to channel and offers personal counseling and channeling sessions. She presently lives in Louisville, KY, with her husband, Jim—wonderful name there—


But anyway, Carla, are you with us?

I am

Hey, thank you so much for coming on the show

Well, it’s a real pleasure. I taught at The Earth Transformation Conference last year.

Oh, great!

Wonderful people and a wonderful group. I really enjoyed being there.

Oh yeah, Michael and Angelica have been up here to the ranch and have had some major experiences and sightings and contacts with the ultra-dimensionals here. It was really fun to be with them again and see their growth, both of them, since the last time I saw them about three years ago. They didn’t even seem like the same people they were so lit-up. [They have] undergone some major transformations. I think I might have had something to do with that.


It could be. It’s a wonderful area to be in, isn’t it?

Oh yeah!

You see so many wonderful people waking up, taking hold, getting a grip and living life for the first time, just completely alive, completely conscious, and you know that the things that you’ve done over the years have had the opportunity at least to be part of that. It’s just a wonderful feeling.

I know you’ve been at it for quite some time and have really opened people’s eyes to the channelings of Ra and The Law of One. I’ve been following that quite a while, but it almost seems like a lifetime ago because things have grown so far. One thing I’ve noticed is that you took a little bit of a sabbatical for a while, didn’t you? And now you’re guided to get back out on the circuit and start speaking again?

Really, I let it happen. I’ve never tried to publicize our work, figuring that if I’m really lucky I’m going to get famous right after I die. That would be entirely fine with me because it’s time-consuming to be well known. I think I’m leaving a good paper trail of what I think and how I feel. I actually haven’t ever taken a sabbatical or lain back except for reasons of health. My health has always been frail and as I get older, it’s easier to slip off the razor’s edge [of wellness]. There have been whole years when I’ve had to drop out and recover from difficult surgeries and things like that. That happened to me just this last year. But then in this last year we had a lot of publications from L/L Research, which is the non-profit arm that Don and I started as you said, in 1970.

I just feel so lucky. There was some work I had done with another channel, for instance—Barbara Brodsky—who is a channel for Aaron. I have channeled Q’uo ever since Don died and we stopped doing the Ra sessions in 1984. Almost immediately after that I started receiving a new contact from those of Q’uo, a group principal made up of the Ra group and two other social memory complexes, so-called, just a bunch of people that think so much alike that they can speak as one being. And two of those, one from the Density of Wisdom and one from the Density of Love. That whole principal is named Q’uo. 3 Barbara’s contact [is] Aaron, who is a Buddhist master. [Aaron and Q’uo] had a wonderful conversation over [a span of several years and] nine weekends. Barbara would drive down from Michigan and we would host question-and-answer sessions over those weekends with our two channels talking on the same subject.

That material had lain in manuscript form for years and [when] I was in Hawaii [at the Earth Transformation Conference] last year I found a wonderful lady named Suzanne Taylor who wanted to tell her nephew about our book. He happened to be one of the editors at North Atlantic Publishing. So I wrote Ba 4 and I said, “You are not going to believe this but I think we’re finally going to get [The Aaron/Q’uo Dialogues] published. And she said, “Well, as a matter of fact, we’ve had a nibble—North Atlantic Publishers is publishing this one book of mine and they asked if there was another book that was like “Conversations with Aaron,” where [there would be] questions [and answers]. She said, “Well, as it happens, we have conversations—with Aaron and Q’uo.

In one week that synchronicity happened and, by golly, North Atlantic is publishing The Aaron/Q’uo Dialogues this next year in the fall of 2011. So even though I’ve taken time out—in this case I had 8 vertebrae in my neck fused this last March. It was a while before I was sitting up, I’ll tell ya!

In the midst of all that, that happened! And a couple of other things got published that had been hanging fire for a while. So it looks as though I was very busy this year!


Mostly I was very busy keeping up my tuning so that I was a positive node in the harmonic grid.


[Tuning] was a lot of my work this year. But I’ve been really steady and holding the public meetings and [editing] the channelings from them [and putting them] up on our [archive] web site, which is

[I am] trying to live this second life. You mentioned that it seems like another lifetime when The Law of One first came out. Sometimes it’s called The Ra Material but the actual title of it is The Law of One, Books 1 through 5. And it seems that people keep discovering the book. It’s forever fresh. It’s one of those things that will never get old because the content of the book will be as important in ten thousand years as it is now. That helps.

I experienced that. The books that I wrote, the information in there—it’s interesting. People open it up and go, “When did you write this?” I say, “In 1982. And they go, “God, everything you’ve written in here is happening now!”


I said, “Well, you know, like when I wrote it I thought I was nuts” you know so—


You were just a little ahead of your time.

Yeah. But it’s all unfolding now. Now the information about which I’m really curious and which I know a lot of listeners are very curious about—[is 2012] There’s so much information coming out about 2012, and about this splitting of worlds and different time lines and things of that nature. Sometimes I feel like I have a foot in three different camps at once, watching all these different realities unfolding. I’m really curious [as to] what they have to say about the next couple of years—the next two or three years—and maybe about what they’re saying is going to happen.

Well, what they’re saying is going to happen is a little bit different from a lot of the people who think that there is going to be some physical event at the Winter Solstice of 2012 where one world ends and another begins. Actually I believe it is going to be a little bit like the year 2000 (Y2K)—a lot of fuss over nothing, physically.

I think it’s a metaphysical event. And this is really hard for people to grasp unless they’ve been working with energy. We all work with energy all the time. We just don’t realize that we’re doing it. Our physical bodies and our emotional/mental electrical bodies are interpenetrating during incarnation.

What happens before we are born is that the soul aspect interpenetrates the physical vehicle. The way it hooks up is called the silver cord in some disciplines. The energy body lies right along the physical spine and interpenetrates it, and we enjoy the best of both worlds: the world of eternity, or the world of souls, and the world of manifestation here.

When it’s time to drop the physical vehicle we move on in our electrical body to the next opportunity for physical manifestation.

They’re just saying that the end of this particular physical manifestation for everybody is going to be the last purely third-density—incarnation. They are going to get a shot at graduating from this school of third density, which is also called by The Confederation the Density of Choice, [The choice to which they refer] is the choice of polarity. Are you going to serve others or are you going to serve yourself?

So what they say is that we’re all going to get to drop the physical vehicle at the end of this particular incarnation, not on December 21 or 22 of 2012 or anything close to that, but just when we’re naturally done with this life time and ready to go on. [Then] we get to do something called walking the steps of light. And if we walk the steps of light and we stop in fourth-density light, then we’ve graduated into fourth density. If we find fourth-density light uncomfortable and find that we need to stay in third-density light, our next incarnation will be on another planet in the Density of Choice or third density. But it won’t be on Earth. Earth will be fourth-density positive.

That’s what the Confederation of Planets says. [The Confederation] is what the Ra group and the Q’uo group and all of those groups are part of, that I channel. That’s where I’m getting this information.

And it’s a lovely way to think about the end of third density and the beginning of fourth. Nobody is judging anybody. That’s the wonderful thing about it. It really is in the Confederation philosophy. It’s a world of love. It’s a creation of love. It’s not that there is a judgmental Creator that says, “No, you didn’t make it, you must do this over.” And there’s certainly no talk about how. It’s just a matter of you walking into this sunshine. It gets brighter and brighter. At the point at which it becomes uncomfortable, you stop. If you’ve stopped in third density, you just repeat the grade. If your pass that, you’re in the Density of Love, the fourth density. Or maybe you’ve walked all the way back to whence you came. You know a lot of people are here from elsewhere, fifth density or sixth density, so I could see people walking right back to their home density if they’ve managed not to get caught in the planetary madness of Earth and gotten sucked into adhering karma—you know, doing unloving things to people. If they just remember who they are, they are going to be fine.

And so my effort since receiving a lot of information in the 1970’s and 1980’s, has been focused on just trying to be a voice of love, trying to encourage people to embrace that side of their nature and really wake up to who they are. Because we all have so much love that is flowing through us all the time. It’s just a matter of realizing that and realizing the power that we have to direct that incredible love that flows through us from the Creator to whatever hopes and dreams that we have for service.

That’s one of the things that I keep getting over and over again and especially connected with some of the Pleiadians. They keep taking about “God is Love.” It’s a frequency in the forest. It’s pressing hard on the Earth right now. There’s a major awakening going on. And they have said it’s a healing force. It’s not here to punish or judge or anything else. It’s an incredible consciousness and energy healing force and some will partake of it—and some won’t.

That’s right. I think everybody, unwillingly or willingly, is experiencing the light from fourth-density Earth. I think that what’s happening, James, is that [fourth-density light] is interpenetrating third-density Earth. Third-density light is waning. It’s just about used up. And so a lot of fourth-density light is interpenetrating third-density right now. [Fourth-density light] [contains] a lot more subatomic particles. The scientists keep coming up with new subatomic particles and say, “I don’t know what it is, but it exists but we never saw it before.”

Well, it’s fourth density and it’s a whole different area of space. It’s a whole different [set of] characteristics. One of the characteristics of the photons in fourth density is that it carries an amazing amount of truth. We’re in this hall of mirrors anyway because we’re all one. So I’m talking to you and you are a mirror to me, and I’m a mirror to you. That’s what happens to all of us, all the time. And what we get back sometimes triggers us and we get irritated because of what we think is out there in the other person. But that hall of mirrors is saying, “Uh-oh, there is a part of your personality that you haven’t integrated yet. You haven’t taken it into your daily-life personality. It’s still in your shadow side. You need to go find that and you need to go heal that. And by healing that I don’t mean kill it or make sure that you never have an evil thought again or whatever. But ask those darker energies to serve the light. Explain to them that you need their help and you want those energies to come aboard too. It’s much more difficult for people to integrate the part of themselves that’s in the shadow side than it is to ignore it. And yet right now, at this point, people really can’t ignore it—things that they’ve never wanted to know about themselves are just hitting them in the face and they’re having to deal with them. So you can interpret that as a very difficult time. And certainly there’s a lot of inner work involved in integrating the shadow side.

Yet at the same time, what an opportunity to integrate everything about yourself so that you’re whole and you can move into the open heart as a complete person, in love with the self, in love with the Creator and ready to serve.

Yeah. I have a question. It’s quite interesting that I’m aware of many of my past lives. Everybody will say yes, they were a monk and a lama and this and that and done all that. But they never talk about the lives where they were [less spiritual]. When I was a Viking warrior I hacked off heads with a big broad axe, and as a road bandit I had a woman in every cantina. And I was kind of a Robin Hood. I’d rob from the rich and spread the money out and go do it again.

But I had a lot of lifetimes where I was a cripple and a beggar and things like that and have done it all. It allows me more compassion and understanding because I know what creates a murderer or as a Viking warrior. My whole family was killed and I just had this rage I had to get rid of and deal with.

But it allows me compassion, I understand why people do what they do from [the effects of] all these experiences. At the same time I think about Jesus coming down here. He knew what was going to happen to him and he wasn’t happy about it but had to walk through it.

At the same time a lot of people say, “Well, you know, he came to release [us from] our sins,” And I think, well, people were sinning before and after He died and during [His ministry], so that must not be the case. But at the same time, just being a light, you’re going to attract the dark. If you are speaking the truth you’re really going to upset those who are manipulating—the tyrants. You’re going to be upsetting them by truly walking your talk with courage and integrity. And so I always look at that and I say, “OK, now wait a second. Is this in me? On the highest level it’s all God, but on another level there’s individual truth. And they have their truth and their path. It might be in total disagreement your truth and your path, and so it’s not necessarily a mirror. In a way it is, but in another way you’re looking at it and you’re seeing that there are people that are of a certain consciousness going in a certain direction. And you are aware of that and see that you actually become a threat by being aware of their dark side or being aware of where they’re heading.

I think that’s entirely true, I know when I was involved in doing the channelings for the Law of One sessions—that was quite a few years ago, ’81 to ’84—I never had a more stiff amount of resistance. Usually the resistance is coming from somewhere within your own personality. But in this case it turned out to be an exterior energy from the Density of Wisdom. But it was negative fifth-density [energy]. And what they wanted to do was basically put out the light.

I’m getting a lot of resistance right now, which might indicate that things that I’ve done lately [have again attracted negative attention]. For example, I taught a class for the International Metaphysical University on line. I just finished that before Christmas. There was a tremendous amount of resistance. I had to record some of those classes four times because I was burning out so many recording devices. There’s something about my energy!

At any rate there’s been a lot of psychic greeting surrounding me lately. I think what it is that when you’re standing close to the truth, we do not have the capacity not to make errors. I mean we’re all perishable—peccable, if you will—individuals. We will make errors. You can count on it. We’re human!


That’s why we’re here. We’re busy making errors and we’re busy learning from them. We don’t repeat our errors very often. But we’re full of errors, we really are.

But the thing of it, is as you know James, is that in all humility there are those of us who have been given the great privilege of standing close to the light and just being witness to that light and serving close to that light. It casts us in a very clear, sharp shadow so that it’s very easy for negative entities who want to distract us, to take pot shots.

If you want to look at the pot shots of all time you can look in the Bible at what Jesus had to go through as soon as he decided, “Okay, I’m going to walk the dusty trails of Galilee. I’m going to share my stories with people.” Once he decided that he was taking it on the road, he went out in the wilderness to pray and get ready for it. The Bible says with it’s typical literality [that] this is the complete truth.

And you realize, okay, it was not a complete physical truth, it was a complete inner truth.

But at any rate, he was tempted. The Devil said, “I’ll give you the world, but, you know, you’re working for me now.” And Jesus said, “Get thee behind me, Satan.”

And then [the Devil] said, “Well, show me how powerful you are. You know, jump off of this mountain and let the angels save you/” And [Jesus] said, “No, I won’t do that. We won’t go there. So as soon as Jesus decided he was going to serve in that way and do a public ministry, he was immediately distracted—the Devil tried its best to distract him. They were trying their best to distract him right at the crucifixion.

I feel so sorry for that poor fellow, Judas, who was taken in completely by their whole political thing of, “Okay, there’s going to be a king in Judea and it’s going to be a Jewish king and they’re going to kick the Romans out.” Jesus had no interest in that, and he had to tell Peter in the Garden of Gethsemane, Put down your sword. My kingdom is not of this world.“

It’s so hard for people to separate the physical from the metaphysical, but it has to be done. I think that whenever we wake up, whenever we get closer to the light, whenever we have these transformations, initiations or epiphanies and things become clearer to us and the light become brighter, you can just about count on the fact that there will be resistance. There will some attempt from either inside our personality or outside of it to distract us; just to distract us, to lessen our focus so that we’re no longer seeking as hard. We’re no longer as devoted. All they have to do to put out the light is to distract us so that we sitting beside of the road instead of walking our spiritual walk.

Yeah. There’s a wonderful saying that the closer you get to nirvana, the more the demons will rear their ugly heads

Yea. It’s a matter of trying to distract you—like, “What’s that?” and, “What’s that?” You forget what you set your intention to do. I find that I often do that. I set my intention when I awaken early and bid my hard working husband good bye for his work in keeping gardens pretty all the time which what he does. I set my intention for the day. “I’m going to serve the Creator. Creator this is your day, I totally want to be a server of the light and love of the Infinite Creator today, please help me, please inspire me.” By 10:30 in the morning I’ve lost it and I’m going, “What was that I’m supposed to do? Let’s see—I’m supposed to call this person.” I’ve gotten lost in the details.

I have to keep pulling myself up short even after all these decades of doing this work. I still have to remind myself every single day would you please get back on your horse Carla [laughs] and serve. Don’t forget who you are and why you’re here—you know, don’t let that go. It’s so easy to get distracted. [Laughs]

Oh yea, it seems that we live in a world of distractions, and I think that it’s intentional distraction. There’s so much to fear. Negativity and these perpetuated wars are on the news and you should be very scared! Everybody is glued to their TV sets to find out what terrorism is happening on the planet. It’s just amazing.

It’s keeping people pretty much in survival [mode,] basically trying to make that buck so they can put food on the table and pay their mortgages. And a lot of people are even below survival [level]. They’ve lost their houses, lost their jobs and they don’t know where they’re going. I’ve always felt that was intentional, keeping people from having that quiet time.

But I think in a way, it’s going to backfire because when you break away from that program of being enslaved through dependency and debt, and all of a sudden you’re free, then you really do wake up and you kind of step out of that world of materialism, not that [materialism] is bad. It’s just that you have to figure out if you’re ensnared by it or entrapped by it. It’s really interesting.

I think there’s going to be a big backfire on that because people are simplifying now and they are moving out of this system and trying to get close to nature. There seems to be a big wave right now where people want to live in harmony with each other and the planet. They are waking up very fast and they’re done with the old program. As you said, third density is losing its juice. The grid for that is pretty much collapsing. It seems that people are between two worlds, where the other world isn’t totally here yet and third density is still hanging on.

I think third density will hang for hundreds of years yet while everybody that wants to incarnate here for the work of the mixture of third and fourth density. Our readings have a lot of suggestions. We’re already experiencing an influx of new Wanderers from fourth-density Earth. This has happened because third-density people have walked the steps of light, have gone on to fourth density. There they get to choose what they want to do for their next incarnation. And so as they review their incarnations past, and they look to see how they want to serve now, many of them find that they keep being drawn back to the Earth plane, the third-density Earth plane. [This is] because during third density so many of the people here experienced disruptions in their native planet, which was not Earth, [but rather] Mars or Maldek or Deneb. [There are] a lot of different places where third density was interrupted for one reason or another and a lot of those people were involved in planetary or local actions which downed either a part of a continent, like Atlantis was, or an entire world like Maldek or Mars, which no longer has an atmosphere. It used to and the actions in the far past, according to the Confederation channeling, caused the planet to become uninhabitable by third-density human forms.

So our planet, our third-density Earth, has had sixteen different planetary populations come here, trying to finish their third density. And a lot of them have experienced adhering karma because of what happened to their Earth, to their planet. And so they want to come back as Wanderers, not so much to lighten the consciousness of the planet but to do restitution to Mother Earth. They really, really, really want to heal the damage that we’ve done. I think we have a lot of that energy here, and it’s very exciting to see it happen.

I think there have been three generations of Wanderers. I’m of the first generation, one of the old guys who came in a long time ago and have been here on Earth for a long time. And I think there was then a second generation of Wanderers, that basically coincides with the Generation X, who were pretty much all about the opportunity in the last days to do a lot of real work on themselves. [They were] the self-involved generation. [They are here] not so much to lighten the consciousness of the Planet Earth as to balance themselves, to balance the energies of love, wisdom and power within their own soul stream.

And then you get this third generation, the Indigo Children, that are really busting systems and trying to make a huge difference either locally or world-wide. They’re trying to get wells for Africa or bore holes for parts of Africa that have no wells, and all kinds of exciting things like that. [They are] really trying to make big differences in the infrastructure and offer the better of the overall [possibilities] for humankind. It’s a wonderful time to be alive!

Yeah. It’s funny watching this whole scenario play out. People are most familiar with the Atlantis, Lemuria or Mu scenario, where they had groups that were more self-serving and [were] into the intellect and technology, power over others, and the other group who saw everybody as family. They saw the Creator in all creation and they wanted to help those less fortunate to rise to their highest potential.

And it seems like that same element right now, the one we’re most familiar with, is acting out right now with the group that is just completely self-serving. [Their] unbridled greed and their love for power and wealth are insatiable.

And then you have the other groups that are in the opposite direction, and a big mix in between of people on both sides of the fence. It’s interesting watching this play out. I have high hopes this time that we won’t end up taking down the continents again and totally abusing technology to the point where everybody has to start over as primitive.

I have high hopes for that too. It figures that you’d have a marked dynamic between positive and negatively polarized people at the end of third density because that’s the whole point of third density, which is to make that choice and then to polarize along that choice.

If you choose to be of service to self then you just want to use everybody in your world as pawns and manipulate everybody and control everybody. You see that energy in corporations; you see it in the armed forces. You see it anywhere where there are large masses of people that are considered less important, and then a few that are considered more important. And there’s that elite group who is running things, that pure service-to-self [polarity].

And then you see the advanced energies of services-to-others [people] where there are so many whose hearts are open. They want to serve as Mother Teresa served. There’re so many good examples of that.

What really makes the news, of course, is [the actions of the] service-to-self [-oriented people]. “If it bleeds, it leads.” And so what flies above the radar is generally service-to-self [in polarity]. But what people miss, if they’re just watching the news, is the incredible life force of the human tribe that is going on under the radar! Just think about all the people that you know would do anything for you. They’re loving, good people. They may not have the greatest intellect in the world. They may not have a great education. They may not have a lot of things. They may not have been born into circumstances that were handy and may have been disadvantaged from the get-go.

But these are people who know in their hearts what’s right to do and they’re going to do it. That energy of doing the right thing and doing it out of love and really just embracing everybody, including everybody, just letting your love flow like sunshine over everybody—that energy is more and more the basic experience that we have. All we have to do is start looking for it and we’ll see it everywhere.

Yeah, it is there.

Yes. I’m very much stoked on the feeling that yes, these are indeed interesting times and they may well hold a lot of chaos. You know in the Mayan calendar there are different varieties of exactly how all the different dates work. I don’t want to get into the abstruse scholarship behind that but they all say one thing, that there is a period of basic chaos of maybe twenty-five, thirty or forty years—hard to say, just depends on who you read! But there’s a period between the setting of the Fifth Sun in that system of the Mayans and the rising of the Sixth Sun where things are very uneven and chaotic. It’s not the end of everything but it’s a time of chaos. I think we’re right in the middle of that now and will be in it for a while.

So what I try to tell people that are glued to the internet news and all the wonders that you can find when you’re surfing the internet—and so many people are finding so much truth; almost too much information is that it’s fine to absorb yourself in all that, just soak it up. But just remember, we did not come here to judge the place, we came here to love it. We came here to be part of the love in peoples’ lives. And you can’t do that if you’re all worried about this or that or the other event that’s taken place in the world, no matter how tragic it is.

You need to take this opportunity to remember why we came here, why we took an incarnation on planet Earth at this time. It’s not just to learn things, it’s not just to be, although being is certainly important. It’s also to hold a very specific place that I think a lot of us sacrifice a good deal in order to do. We came into conditions that were not what we’re used to. Planet Earth is a little rough around the edges and it’s tough to be here sometimes. But we came here because we heard the cries of help from people that live here saying, “We need help at the end of this age! Please help us!”

And so, here we are. And, having sacrificed to get here, I am certainly not going to waste a single day of my incarnation in going, “This is hard.” Well you know what, that’s okay, you pay dues to get in to this party but then you’re at the party and you can serve. And it’s just so wonderful to know that we’re here at a really interesting time for this planet and we really do have the capacity to serve. We really do have a capacity to be voices of love. It’s just a matter of staying on task and remembering the mission, and letting our love flow.

It definitely feels, to me as though there are cleansing processes [going on]. One of the visions they showed me when I first started was the Earth. They showed me the future and the Earth was just a big mud-ball. Nothing was left. The whole surface was scoured and it was very clean, getting ready to start fresh and renew itself. It was quite an interesting situation.

And then I saw these really long tubular [shapes]. [They] almost looked like a train but they were anti-gravity devices that were going around the Earth. I guess they were picking whoever made it through this process. I was told, “If you don’t get busy this is what is going to happen.

That’s the message.

Exactly. And they said this is where you’re headed, this is what’s on the books right now so get busy. The dream was a very clear message. After that I got very busy and started letting people know, hey, we need to get our act together here. We need to clean up our consciousness and the environment or this is where it’s going to go.

It was kind of interesting in that it really pushed me into that. What’s strange is [that] last night I had a strange [experience] where I heard this knock, like a knock on the door. I’m out in this one little building and there’s nobody around it, there’s nothing. I hear this knock and I go, “That’s interesting.” I knew it was kind of like a spirit knock.

I fell asleep again and I had this dream. I was back in this desert time I lived in and I was walking. The water came up to that area and it’s California, Napa Valley, CA. I think [the altitude is] about 3,000 feet up there. In this dream, I saw the water coming in, moving in, in these waves. It was really interesting. It stopped right in front of me.

The water actually seemed conscious. There were old cars and vehicles and things [in the water]. The wave would come out and grab that car and miss a newer one or—it was just cleaning up, it was [as though the water were] conscious.

It was quite an interesting dream, I haven’t really had a chance to sit with it but I looked at a lot of the different dynamics in that dream. One was that the water was conscious. It was actually moving around certain things and taking out the old stuff, recycling it. It was just quite interesting the way the whole dream was unfolding. I know one of the Mayan elders that were at the Earth Transformation Conference was saying that. He was telling the people why. He said that we are Mayans. We’ve been here and we’ve never changed. We still live in this crater. We’ve been here forever.

And he said that we are nature. And he said that nature is going to start moving and cleaning and cleansing and doing her thing.

I think it already is.

Yes, definitely. I know Australia is really having some [difficulties].

It was in the early ‘70’s when I first got into this field—and yes, I’m 67, folks, do the math—but I was aware of a lot of We Are the Earthquake Generation-type books 5 and they were focusing on a lot of changes that were taking place in climate.

As well, some of them, like We Are the Earthquake Generation, focused on Edgar Cayce’s readings which had suggested that there was going to be a planetary pole shift in 1998. And of course in 1960, it was all ahead of us. Now I’m looking back on it, but then it seemed entirely plausible that Cayce could be right, because every year there were more earthquake events, more extreme weather events and so forth and so on.

And in actuality I was once in the middle of a hurricane. I was not supposed to be on this island, but I was. I didn’t want to leave, and so I went down to the beach and I communicated with the ocean. The ocean was extremely sad. The ocean is definitely alive. I mean, everything is alive! But a big body of water like that has a very strong persona and is very aware. And it was a very sad ocean because it did not want to do the damage that it was going to do.

And it knew that it must happen, that there were energies within the Earth which had been stamped down into the Earth by the heat of the aggression of people warring and fighting and using violence as a policy tool as opposed to discretion and tact and so forth. And there had been all of this heat that had been tamped and stuffed down into the Earth for millennia. And it needed to be let out.

And so all of these events were happening, and there was a lot of consciousness involved in trying not to have everything happen at once, so that you would have locally disastrous events but you wouldn’t have a planetary, global disaster. And so far that’s happened, that’s been very successful.

And actually I’ve seen some figures from scientists that say that the planetary magnetic north is almost finished moving to where it needs to move to be in alignment with fourth-density light. There’s just a little bit left to go. So we have a little bit more of this chaos to put up with and to try to help each other live through.

I think the thing that we can all do at a time like this, since we know what’s happening and why, is to be super calm and super hopeful that all is well. You can’t prove that all is well when it looks pretty disastrous out there.

[A few words of the discussion were lost because James and Carla were talking at once.]

I think that your world becomes sweeter and sweeter and all truly is well. I think that’s what we need to do—just reassure people and don’t add to the panic.

There’s been some [new bits of information] out there that are really interesting. One [man], I think it’s Dmitry, a Russian scientist, was talking about us moving into a new, highly energized place in space right now that’s really going to move things. And we’re also moving into alignment with the core of the galaxy here with central suns and things like that—really shifting the magnetic fields.

And I’ve seen some very interesting things too about before a major natural disaster when they go and measure the (energy) fields in that area. The fields are very down, like next to nil. And after the disaster, the energy fields are back up. A major lightning storm or earthquake, any huge release of energy in that area seems somehow to regenerate the fields.

What kills the fields of an area is a kind of social consciousness where there are a lot of people being subdued or enslaved. They’re not happy. There’s no joy there. They’ve gotten totally away from nature. That seems to lower the fields. And I also feel that [because of] the frequencies of those areas, sometimes I think people gravitate to those areas if they are of a denser frequency. And other people will move out of those areas because they’re guided, hopefully by inner guides. There’s just a feeling to being there, it just doesn’t feel right to be there anymore.

I always tell people it’s so important right now to get in touch with your own inner guidance and make your own personal Creator-connection within and master that loving detachment that allows you to flow with these times and you’ll be fine. I’ve been watching this on all these different levels and it seems to be a lot about frequency and energy. People will gravitate to places they need to go for whatever lessons they need to experience

That’s right. Yes, I think the idea [of] frequency is very, very helpful for all of us because we think so much in terms of mass and things that have weight in the outer world. Actually who we are [is our frequency.] At least when the Confederation entities talk to me, they tell us they don’t need our names because they’re looking at the readout of the seventh chakra. They see a very clear signature of who we are. It’s in our frequencies.

There is a frequency to love, as you said, and this love, this frequency, is the Logos, the active principle of the Creator, whose very nature is unconditional love. So we really are living in a universe of love.

When we choose to investigate that side of ourselves we open up to a tremendous inner world which, actually, is more real than the world of manifestation. The scientists tell us that the world of manifestation is largely space. They give us a picture of the atoms, these teeny, tiny little particles of energy separated by vast distances. If you had the nucleus on the fifty-yard line of a football field, the nearest electron is up in the cheap seats somewhere. That’s a lot of space! This is why it’s easy, if you remember that, number one, it really is a world of illusion and, number two, there is plenty of room for all the densities to nest together.

Third-density Earth doesn’t become fourth-density Earth. Fourth-density Earth is right here. We can’t see it but it’s right here. We can’t see it with our physical eyes because the nature of fourth density is electrical, not chemical. But there’s plenty of room for it. We don’t have to hang onto one Earth and say, well, logically, for fourth density to occur, third density has to go away. No, that’s not true. Third density will wind down as people who come in here with DNA that can use fourth-density light as well as third-density light, until they’re satisfied that the [third-density] Earth has been healed.

That is separate from fourth density, which is already alive and well. As one [L/L Research] reading 6 said, “The baby is alive. It’s been a tough birth but the baby is alive. Fourth-density Earth is alive and well.”

I look forward to the time after my service on Earth is done and I get to walk the steps of light and move into fourth density and really experience, for the first time, the awareness that has been missing from my incarnation: the real truth of how things are. It’s missing from all our incarnations in third density. Imagine knowing all of our past incarnations, not in a way that causes us to feed our ego but in a way which allows us to see where we’ve been, what we’ve learned, what we’ve witnessed. We see what everybody else is experiencing, suffering and witnessing and we have that fellow feeling that we could not quite ever have here because it seems so obvious to us in the illusion that we’re separate.

Every once in a while we get that we love everybody and everybody loves us, and that we are they and they are we. John Lennon wrote, “I am you as he is you and we are you and we are all together”—I never could quote that right. 7 But at any rate, the idea is that we are all one. Imagine the relief it will be to be in fourth density and to be completely aware of everybody’s situation, not knowing what they’re thinking in some way that would trap them or shame them, but knowing what they’re thinking and knowing what we’re thinking and realizing that all of that is okay, that all of that is perfect. Each of us is where we need to be to learn what we need to learn for now. I think it will be a wonderful experience to have that veil of forgetting lifted so that we can feel our unity and see it and not just take it on faith which we have to do now.

Another Mayan calendar [researcher,] Calleman, says this March, the unity consciousness wave comes through, the ninth wave. [Calleman] said it’s a very powerful force coming through, a very unifying force which probably could even be described as the Law Of One, you know, everything is one and we’re all together.

It’s going to be interesting watching this wave and how people react to it and what they do with it. We need to [become] initiates. Lately I’ve been feeling these huge waves of energy going through, one after another. We’ve been doing these world healing meditations, as guided by the ultra-dimensionals. Actually we’re doing one here pretty soon. We were talking to Babaji. 8 He came in and said, “Now’s the time to do this one.” They tell us when to do these. They are right in the middle of these influxes of energy that come through. Usually there are two or three days at the beginning, and then there’s the peak of it and then two or three days at the end of it.

It’s interesting how these waves are coming through. I don’t know if it’s us just moving into a new place in the universe that’s creating these waves. My gut feeling is that these waves are instigated or set into motion using natural forces as well as timing by these higher dimensional beings. They are assisting us in our awakening and healing process.

Yeah, I think you’re probably right there. But I think that the nature of the changing times is such that we are definitely going to be feeling the new vibrations, with or without help.

I think the help is very, very excellent in that the help is tending to give us the tools that we need to magnetize the positive energies to ourselves and to create of ourselves a kind of lighthouses, so that people that are in the dark and are fearful can look up and see not just one light, not just L/L Research or James Gilliland, or anybody in particular. There are so many of us now that have gotten the message and are very much oriented towards sharing it with anybody that would find it useful to hear. They’ll look up in this situation of darkness and they’ll see [a reference to] us, surfing the internet. Or maybe [they will find] a book that one of us has written or a song one of us has written or something that catches them. And they can use that. And they are so grateful to see that light.

The wonderful thing about light is that the darkness can never put it out. If you light a candle, you can see that candle for a full half-mile, unless there’s some problem with the atmosphere, fog or something. A little light goes a long way! So even though we as human beings are sometimes strong and sometimes weak, the energy that flows thorough us is always infinite, and always infinitely powerful. So if we can set ourselves to being sure that we keep our energy bodies open, keep our hearts open and give a place from which that light can radiate, then we with our open hearts are little lighthouses. And if a bunch of us gets together, then it’s a really big lighthouse. That’s what you’re doing with the world healing meditations—getting a lot of little lighthouses to put their energy into one thing, set that one intention in common and, oh my!

Yeah, it’s gone viral. It’s amazing! I always have a little bit of an inhibitor in me and even to go public with some of the things that we’ve been doing that are very intense [goes against the grain for me.] I didn’t think that some of the people would be ready for [these thoughts]. And I keep getting pushed to just do it. [I am] initiating more and more people into the higher consciousness at the conferences. The [Earth] Transformation Conferences had a limit of forty people for their workshops, and I think around a hundred people showed up. I was talking to Michael about it and I said, “Well, let them in. Obviously they’re here for the experience. I think there are enough tapped-in people in the group here that everything’s going to turn out great.” And it was just phenomenal!

I’ll bet!

You know, I’m one of those reluctant people. I’m sure you feel that too, where we just keep getting pushed a little more and more from within to take on more. I’ve always struggled with myself. There’s a part of me that can do “hermit” very well and just get up on the mountain and stand in my own bliss. I’m really fine with that. And then I get shoved off the mountain every now and then.


They say, “Get out and do your work.” I’m sure you can relate to that.

I certainly can, I certainly can. This is the time to let it all hang out. This is ground zero. So I hold nothing back. But [it’s] frightening, oh my goodness!

Sometimes you have so much energy running through you, it’s almost scary. It’s quite interesting. But I know as long as you stay in that service-to-others program and you become a hollow bone or a hollow tube and just let the energy work through you, everything’s fine. But as soon as you start to control, you get into self-service. You create all kinds of complications around the situation.

Oh yeah. And that’s always the temptation. We live in a culture that’s very service-to-self in its orientation, “what’s good for me” and so forth. You just have to keep tabs on yourself and make sure you’re not going there in any way, shape or form, not trying to create a little empire on this Earth, but just trying to provide resources for those who are seeking. As long you can remember that then you’re fine. If you start thinking in terms of the way the church has thought, to its detriment, for all these centuries -you know, “I must pay the bills on this cathedral,” or “We must build a bigger cathedral,” or “We must have a fancier cathedral,”—you begin to think of the church not as a living thing made up of people’s hearts but as a piece of architecture, and then another piece of architecture. And all these pieces of architecture are called churches. That is how it became the church. And you have to donate to make sure these churches get their roofs fixed and stuff.

It’s just really important for the people doing this work in spiritual reality to remember that it doesn’t matter about anything except that we just are here to serve. We’re not here to create little empires, or little cults of personality for that matter.

Yeah, you’ll be tested all along the way, continuous testing.

I was talking to Graham Hancock. 9 I love what he has to say. He said every shaman hits that point where they’re going to go into [either] service to self or service to others and very few of them take the high road. A lot of them fall back into material acquisition, power, and whatever else [is of] the lower frequencies. And I’ve seen that so many times with teachers and healers. You have to have a constant vigil on that and watch that side because it’s always there and it’s always saying, “Go here, go there and you can have everything.” [It is] the same temptation that Jesus went through and any other master, basically. I run into that a lot in the field.

It’s time for us to really go within, with brutal honesty, and ask ourselves why are we doing this, what is the motive for doing this? Are we’re still seeking love, acceptance, approval outside of ourselves? Are we seeking money, survival? What is the drive behind our work? I know there are so many people out there and a lot of times they forget to do that inner assessment, you might say.

Yes, there are many ways to get sidetracked but the wonderful thing is you can always realize you’ve gone into a blind alley and back out.


Yeah, now you know what you don’t want and you can move on to do what you want.

You know, unfortunately, we’re out of time. What’s the best way that people can get hold of you and your books and your counseling, and anything else you have to offer?

To see what kind of channeling I do, you can go to the library site, And then we have a community site, www., and there’s a store there. It’s a safe, secure store. We’ve worked for quite a while to say that! It’s safe to put your credit card on our store as we’re all banked up now. And you can also read my daily blog and other peoples’ blogs. There are lots of forums. You can live-chat, you can arrange to talk with people that you meet there. It’s really a global site. There are lots of people from Europe, Australia, Africa, South America, Canada—it’s not just an American site at all, it’s definitely all over the world.

It’s fascinating to see people reaching out from all different languages and all different climates and all different parts of the world, just trying to find somebody to have a decent conversation with. That’s something that we try to offer on Bring4th. And of course it’s a pun: bring fourth density, bring forth fourth density. Those two sites will get us.

Great. I can’t thank you enough for coming on the show, I know this probably should have been a two-hour show. We’ll have to get you back on again soon.

I’d be delighted.

Have a great day!

You too!

We’ve run out of time, folks. This is James Gilliland with World Puja. Have a great evening and do that inner assessment! And watch the skies, because there’s a lot going on out there. Have a great day!

  1. The World Puja Network, 

  2. Carla and Don actually became partners, with no money changing hands, in 1969, as they wrote their first book, The Crucifixion of Esmerelda Sweetwater, together. In 1970, Don hired her at a matching salary to the librarian’s job she had previously held, to write and do research for him. 

  3. The densities of an octave of creation are seven. The first density is the density of the elements and powers, the second density is the biota of plants and animals through the great apes. Third density is us humans, self-aware and spiritually open. Fourth density is the Density of Love, fifth is the Density of Wisdom and sixth density, the density of Ra, is the Density of Unity. The seventh density is the Density of Foreverness, which leads to the octave density, which after a timeless epoch also is the first density of the next octave of this infinite creation. 

  4. Ba is Carla’s pet name for Barbara Brodsky. 

  5. We Are the Earthquake Generation was written by Jeffrey Goodman and is still available in print and ebook forms. 

  6. This quote comes from a reading on April 1, 1979, in which Latwii said, “The delivery, so far, has been difficult, but the baby is alive.” 

  7. The correct lyrics are, “I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.” The song is “I Am the Walrus” and it was written by John Lennon and performed by the Beatles in 1967 on the album, Magical Mystery Tour

  8. To learn more about Babaji, link to 

  9. To learn more about Graham Hancock, link to