Welcome back to the Law of One series: episode 11. And today I’m very excited for our episode as we have a very special guest with us today. Somebody who I consider to be a true spiritual hero of mine, a man who served as the scribe for The Ra Material, and the current head of L/L Research—Jim McCarty. So, Jim, thank you so much for coming on the show with me today.

It is my pleasure to be here, and I’m looking forward to your questions and anything that you would like to ask. I’ll be very happy to try to answer.

Excellent, I’m looking forward to it as well. I’ve written down about 500 questions to ask you today. But we’re going to try to keep the interview to about an hour or so because, as Ra would say, I do not wish to deplete this instrument.

So before we get into my questions, I’d like to actually get a quick background from you. Since I know that many of our listeners might not actually know exactly how The Ra Material came to be, and how you actually became a part of the original trio. So, can you just give us a brief summary of how you met Don and Carla back in the late 70s? And what it was that sort of brought about the Ra contact?

Sure. I was part of what was called at the time the back to the land movement in the early 70s, where college-educated hippies were moving to the country to simplify their lives, regarding Thoreau’s a “simplify, simplify.” So I bought some land in central Kentucky in the woods. Built a log cabin. Lived off the grid for six-and-one-half years. And I had a little battery-powered radio that I would occasionally listen to various things on the radio. And one night, May 30th, 1978, I was tuned into WKQQ radio in Lexington, Kentucky. And they were interviewing Don Elkins and Carla Rueckert on the topic of UFOs. And they were talking about the philosophy of the UFOs: that we were all one, that we were all on a journey of returning into unity with the Creator. And that interested me very much.

So I was trying to figure out how to meet them. And it took me about four or so months. It turned out that in our area, we had food buying co-ops—we would order food that we couldn’t grow ourselves. And at one of these meetings, I was talking to a couple from the other side of the same county I lived in. And I was talking to them about this interview I’d heard with Don Elkins and Carla Rueckert. They said, “Well, we’re part of their meditation group. We can introduce you.” So they did. They took me up to Louisville, about 70 miles away. And I started going to the Sunday night meditations for a full year. And after that year, they invited me to join them.

Ah, okay. Very interesting. So they were pretty much mostly doing kind of UFO research at that time. Is that correct?

They were doing UFO research, but not as much as Don had before Carla joined him in 1968. The 60s, and actually the 70s, in the mid-70s is where he did most of his research. But after that, when Carla started channeling in 1974, then the channeling became the primary focus of this spiritual journey for both of them. And they began channeling. Hatonn was a fourth density entity back in the 60s when Don had his first experiment where he was trying to teach people how to channel. And then later on, other entities channeled. And eventually, when I joined them three weeks later, the Ra contact began.

Oh okay, I see. So from what the… What you guys stated in the introduction to The Ra Material, they were doing kind of a group channeling experiment, right? Don was trying to put something together to try and make contact with ETs? Is that right?

Right. He… It was 1961. He had been interested in channeling before that. But in ’61, he came in contact with information from a fellow that moved here from Detroit. And he brought with him information from a group there that was channeling Hatonn - this entity that eventually we would channel. And it gave information as to how you could begin your own group and get the same type of information. It was called The Brown Notebook. And so Don got together some of his students… a dozen of his students from his Introduction to Physics class at the University of Louisville, where he was teaching. And one of those students asked if he could bring along his girlfriend, and that turned out to be Carla Rueckert.

So after a while, they were using those techniques that were in The Brown Notebook. But there was a lot of strange sounds being made as lips were smacking and tongues were cracking, people are opening and closing their mouths, but no words were coming out.

So eventually, Walt Rogers, who was the head of the group in Detroit, came down to Louisville and began to channel. And he channeled Hatonn, and they said, “We have contact with you, but all of you are afraid that this is something you’re making up in your mind. If you will say the words in your mind, more words will be given to you.” And so that broke the scientific validity of the contact. So Don decided, “Well, I’ll just go ahead and gather as much information as I can.”

So that’s where it started for Don and Carla. Although they didn’t get together for another seven years. Carla was eventually married the fellow that was a boyfriend, and then came back to Louisville after his… the boyfriend decided he wanted a divorce.

Okay. So the unsuccessful marriage.

Yeah, so it all happened the way it was, you know, supposed to, I’m sure. Otherwise there’d be no Ra contact.

Exactly. Thank you, Lord, for that. So… Okay, so the next thing that I think many of my listeners are always… I’m always seeing people asking in the comments is… the initial Ra contact happened—and correct me if I’m wrong—from one of these group channeling sessions, where Carla I think just started sort of channeling an entity, and it ended up being Ra. And then maybe, I think it was Don who said, “We need to do maybe a private channeling session with this entity.” Is that kind of how it came about?

That’s basically it. From time to time, there would be people in the Sunday night meditation group that asked to learn how to channel. And so she was teaching… She and Don were both teaching one of these students at that time how to channel. But instead of the normal contact coming through—which at that time was Latwii, a fifth density entity—Ra came through.

And I, at the time, was out shopping for groceries. So I walked through the front door and interrupted the Ra contact, right when Don asked Ra about the planetary changes coming up. And Ra paused for a moment and said, “We must deepen this instrument’s state.” The reason we had to do that is because I walked through the door with my hands full of groceries and saw what was going on and walked down the hall into the kitchen and put them away.

And afterward, Don said, “This is it. We’ve got… This is what we were waiting for…


…could you transcribe this session as soon as possible?“ I said, “Oh, okay. Sure.” And when I was transcribing, I thought, “Yep, this is it.”

Yeah, yeah. One of those moments of destiny that you kind of don’t realize at the time, but look back on just going, “Wow, little did I know.”

Yeah, that was it.

Wow. Fascinating. Okay, so then the next question I’d like to ask you is… So since they were doing a lot of these channelings before the Ra contact, how much of the kind of original information in the Law of One sessions—you know, the concepts of the seven densities, the logos, wanderers, and things like that—how many of those concepts had already been established through other channelings? And how many of those concepts were original to the Ra contact itself?

Well, the idea of there being One Original Thought of the Creator, that is the entire creation, was a part of channeling from the beginning. So that was the basic. And the advice to meditate and to take time out of each day to commune with the Creator was always the advice of the Confederation of Planets in Service of the Infinite Creator, which Ra is a part of that too. All of the groups that ever channeled through our group are part of that Confederation. The details, like the densities, was unique to the Ra contact.

And the information about negatively oriented entities was unique to the Ra contact. We hadn’t heard of that before that. And, of course, anything on the archetypical mind was totally unique to the Ra contact. So the philosophy was more general. But the whole idea of the One Original Thought, and that we could become part of that, and we could discover our journeys through meditation, was always part of the Confederation channeling.

Okay. Fascinating. Yeah. I’ve always been curious how many of those concepts were totally unique to that contact. And, I mean, I imagine that especially you being the scribe, were probably sitting there thinking, “Man, this is some really amazing material.”

Yeah. And the energy centers - the way it was described, the qualities of each energy center… We knew there were chakras, but we didn’t… And we knew the heart was, you know, love. But we didn’t know so much detail about that as well.

Right. Yeah, that’s very much true for me as well. When I when I started reading The Ra Material, I had some preliminary understanding of the chakras and what they represent. But I think there’s a lot of confusion amongst… in the spiritual community or maybe differing points of view on the chakras. Like sometimes I’ll read, you know, about the violet ray, for example. And people will lay out all the energies contained in the violet ray, and what they represent. But you know, of course, The Ra Material… Ra shares that the violet ray is more or less just a readout or a barometer of the rest of the energy body. And I found that to be very fascinating. And we’ll get into that a little more later.

The next kind of question I’d like to ask you about is about wanderers. Ra states that there are many wanderers coming to the planet right now to aid in the fourth-density harvest. And that was, of course, back in the ‘80s… before 2012. But it made me wonder that if a fourth density soul, let’s say, is incarnated on our planet today - born today - would they still be considered a wanderer because we’re now, you know, a fourth density planet technically.

Not really. Ra did mention that there are entities coming here now that have already graduated from other third-density planets, and that this planet will be their fourth-density home. So they’re wanderers of a kind. But they’re coming here early before the fourth density is fully imbued in the planet. And they’re coming here because there’s so many opportunities to be of service.

Those opportunities are what we would call difficulties, and stress, and confusion, and separation, and anger between peoples that is on this planet so much now. Those are seen as great opportunities to be of service. And it’s considered a privilege to come here now, during all this turmoil, and to try to help alleviate it, to try to bring love and light, to try to bring the planet into the fourth density.

Yeah, wow. What an interesting juxtaposition, right? The things that we see as so terrible and we want to avoid and all that are seen from the soul level as the greatest gifts - so the greatest opportunities,

Absolutely. They are.

If we can adopt that point of view now, I think we would get a lot more out of our life incarnations as well in terms of polarization.

Well, that’s also the suggestion of the Confederation—always, you know, look at the difficulties in your life as an opportunity to grow. That’s what they’re for.


There are no mistakes. We’ve all programmed various things that we want to do. And a lot of times, as Ra said, trauma is part of our growth process. So don’t be afraid of that. Just realize that, you know, all is well, there are no mistakes, and what you got right in front of you is what’s supposed to be there. Go do it.

Yes. Yes, that concept, maybe more than any other I think, for me personally, from The Ra Material, has given me so much peace of mind in daily living, to know that everything is just a catalyst for growth, and it’s all meant to be happening, and there are no mistakes in that way. Such a life changing realization to have, especially for many of us, like myself, who grew up in religion, and we’re taught that they’re very much our mistakes and they’re up the utmost consequence, you know?


So then Ra talks about the idea of the dual-activated body, and I think that’s in correlation to the transition into fourth density that our planet’s been going through. But that’s a subject for me that’s a little bit murky, and I think for a lot of people as well. Can you clear up what it means to… What a dual-activated body is and what it… what does it represent?

Sure, I’ll do my best. We’re in the third density right now. So we have our red, orange, yellow bodies activated. The green ray isn’t totally activated yet.


So our yellow ray body is the one that we’re working with in the third density. It’s the group consciousness—we’re all trying to work together to help each other get into the fourth density. Now, if entities are able to do that… And I mentioned those entities that are coming here with dual-activated bodies have made it. They’ve gotten into their heart unconditional love. And that is another body. So the dual-activation is the yellow and the green together.

And these entities are able to do what we would say have psychic abilities that we don’t have usually. Third-density entities can have these, and many many do, but the entities coming here with dual-activated bodies—with the green ray activated—have the ability many times to do things that we can’t do that have been here for so long… even wanderers… to exercise abilities, to feel empathy to other people, to… maybe do psychic readings, and various types of extrasensory perceptions that are not normal for third density but are available to third density and are available to wanderers, but are part of what… the package that these dual-activated bodies entities have.

So they just have more abilities. And they’re… they’ve been described throughout the years since the Ra contact as crystal children or indigo children, systems busters. They see new ways to do things. And you know, they… some of them have done quite amazing things to change the world.

It’s more usual that a person would be harvestable at the end of the density, the third density, the cycle, the 75,000 years, what we’re going through now. This is the time of the harvest and people very likely when they pass form this illusion of third density, they are going through the experience of the harvest, walking into the light and attempting to welcome the light as much as they possibly can until it becomes too glaring, and they step aside and discover, wow, I’m in the fourth density.

But entities can, through meditation and the practices of the adept, and white ceremonial magic, can achieve that while in the third density here. And these are beings have had what is called the illumination experience, the nirvana experience, the satori, kensho… there’s name in various cultures for it. They’ve been able to activate the indigo ray and harvest themselves while they’re here and still stay here and become teachers here. So that is something that is rare but it still happens.

So the sort of the experiences of sudden enlightenment or Satori, as described in the eastern traditions, could be a signpost of a green ray activated body?

At least a green ray, right.

Yeah. Okay. And maybe up and through indigo ray as well.


Okay, fascinating. So then since we are in this transition into fourth density, and I know it’s a very long transition evolutionary process, do you think… You know, I wonder a lot about the veil of forgetting in the third density that we’ve been under, and how that transitions to fourth density where there is no veil. Do you think that that veil of forgetting is something that just gradually dissipates and, you know, as time goes forward, we’ll just naturally begin kind of remembering past lives more commonly, or how does that look to you?

Well, it’s something that, apparently according to the recent channels we’ve had here, is something that is occurring very slowly, and it’s something that will continue to occur. But as I said before, various individuals can begin to penetrate that veil through meditation, and again, white ceremonial magic, and high sexual magic Ra mentioned. There are various techniques that can be used to penetrate that veil. But again, these are practices of the adept who has already opened the heart and gone through the blue and is working in the indigo. So it’s rare, but it is… it is quite possible. And people are doing that.

Okay. Yeah, because I think there’s a lot of misconceptions amongst people who read The Ra Material that penetrating the veil means that I’ll suddenly remember all my past lives on Sirius and other planets and stuff like that. But I think it might look a little different. Yeah.

It is very likely that some people may do that. Ra said… One of the things that Ra mentioned repeatedly was we are all unique. And each person’s experience of penetrating the veil will be unique. Each person’s experience of activating the indigo ray, contacting intelligent infinity will be unique. So there will be qualities of it that are similar.


But it will also be unique to each person.

Right. Probably in the same way that every kind of near death experience is similar in its certain commonalities but also very unique individually.

Right. Right.

Okay, that helps a lot. Then, I guess kind of an off-the-wall question about wandering. Listening to the Ra sessions a few weeks ago… I was listening to the session where Ra speaks of the two entities from their complex, who I believe he… they said were fifth-density entities who wandered into the fourth density to be of aid to Ra’s planet on Venus, because apparently they were maybe, from their perspective, too overbalanced on the side of love with not enough wisdom. And then that those two entities who incarnated ended up reversing polarity to the fourth-density negative in that attempt to be of service. So I was under the impression that the only density that you could wander into would be third density because of the veil. But this session sort of indicates that you actually can wander… like a fifth density being can wander to the fourth density, is that correct?

Well, in a way. Let me backtrack a bit. They wandered into the third density of Ra’s experience…

Ah, okay.

Because Ra’s third-density experience was, to some people, it was sickeningly sweet because they were very much involved in relationships, sexual energy exchanges, philosophical expressions of the tarot, going through the veil and getting information on the tarot, and being of service to each other. And about six and a half million of Ra’s thirty-eight million were of this nature. The other thirty-two million tended to look at those that would become Ra in the fourth density as being a little too sweet.

Yeah, yeah.

Just… “You’re just too much.” So these wanderers saw that attitude among the majority of the population on Venus, and thought that they would try to offer a more wisdom-oriented type of service as they were incarnate and with third density. So as they incarnated, somehow, and this is a mystery exactly how that happens, they became negatively oriented entities - going into wisdom and not the heart, going into what would be shining the bright light on how things really are rather than being foolishly lovingly of service to others, giving of the self even to martyrdom.


So after they were harvested themselves, and they saw that they’d switch their polarities, they were, as Ra said, “disconcerted.” And when that happened, then it was necessary in order to be able to switch back, they had to stay negative for a certain period of time. Now, this is difficult to understand for me how they would polarize in the negative sense and yet remain possibly able to switch the polarity later on. But apparently this is what can happen. And they were able to do that with a great deal of effort, as Ra said. And then they joined Ra in Ra’s fourth density as these wanderers who had now switched back to positive polarity. And they came in late because it took a while to switch their polarities. And that’s how Ra knew what happened to them because they joined Ra for a certain period of time.


So they were with Ra in both the third density and the fourth density.

Okay. Okay, that makes sense. That… I think that says a lot about how the soul or the soul/higher self can set up incarnations with a certain trajectory or mission. And those entities wandering to third density, I would imagine, were going under the veil of forgetting. So they didn’t have conscious knowing of what their intent was, but they probably had set up their incarnations in a way that would allow them to teach the ways of wisdom to those… to that people group, but becoming cynical, like you were saying, towards the overabundance of compassion and sweetness and all that, could have… could have caused them to become so cynical that they actually reverse polarity.

Right. Each of us makes those preincarnative choices. And that is something that in philosophy has been called predeterminism.


But in the incarnation, free will is supreme. You may not pay attention to how your subconscious biases the catalyst that comes your way in accordance with those preincarnated choices. You may decide, “I want to do something else,” and go another direction, and it may be good. It may not be so good. Or it may be like these wanderers, it may be totally opposite of what you’d hoped for.

Right. Yeah. That’s why wandering is such a risk, right? Because you could end up, you know, the exact opposite that you intended.

Well, that’s why Ra said there were very few fourth density wanderers because it takes a great deal of, what they said, foolhardiness or bravery, depending upon your point of view, to come into the third density as a wanderer, because the problem is remembering, in some degree, why you’re there. And it takes usually the fifth or sixth density type of polarization to be able to do that.


Fourth density wanderers are here, but not so many of them for that reason.

Right. Right. So would you say then that because the soul’s frequency or vibration increases through the densities, that it’s maybe a safer gamble for a fifth- or sixth-density being to wander than maybe a fourth, whose vibration might be not high enough to maybe penetrate the remembrance of their intention of being there and all that, or being influenced by the catalyst.

That’s definitely a very strong part of it. Also, I think is that fifth and sixth density entities have been wanderers more… more often. They’ve had the experience. And there’s a type of a knowledge that comes with that… in your being so that you are more likely to remember. But it’s mentioned a number of times that wanderers have significant difficulties on planet earth because the vibrations are so different from their home planet, their home vibration. So there are… there are things that each wanderer has to consider. If you have difficulties in your life, it could well be because you are a wanderer…


And that these vibrations just aren’t harmonizing with you. And it’s just a hard place to be.

Right. Yeah. And that’s… that’s probably why Ra says that most wanderers are sixth density, because they’re looking to achieve that balance of love and wisdom, right? And so they might choose certain very difficult, from our perspective, very difficult catalysts, like a disease or a physical ailment or type of abuse in the childhood, that will force them to learn the ways of wisdom or of love.

Right. Right. Those types of lessons are difficult, but those types of lessons teach you a great deal. If you can find the love in the moment…


…in those lessons, you’ve achieved a great deal.

Yeah, the most opportunity for growth for sure.


Okay, so then there’s a… there’s a session where you guys talk a lot about the cat, Gandalf and the different, you know, physical ailments that Gandalf was experiencing. And Don’s very concerned if they should get surgery or whatnot. And I guess you could see that as maybe like a second-density catalyst.

But the question that actually came up for me when I was listening to that session was… in the same way that a third-density human sort of serves as a catalyst for a second-density pet—you know, being around a third-density vibration as the pet learns its name and rules, boundaries, limitations, affection and all that—those are kind of like third-density catalysts that maybe help a second-density soul like a pet to evolve faster.

Would you say that that’s a good analogy or comparison for what planet earth does for the rest of the collective who might be in third density, as now the planet itself has become fourth density, that it kind of… its vibration helps pull along the third-density souls on the planet?

I would say that’s correct. Our mother Gaia has a relationship with each of the entities on this planet. And this type of a relationship is something that has been difficult over the years because there’s so many people that have been repeating third density on Earth have come from other planets where they failed to make it and have been engaged in bellicose actions in war, and in using atomic energy and different types of energy for negative purposes, separation, and control. And that these vibrations have gone into the planet Earth - into the crust of the planet. And before our Mother Earth can be graduated fully into the fourth density, these vibrations have to be released in some fashion. And in many times, it’s volcanoes and earthquakes and so forth, because this anger of separation seeps into the crust of the planet, and is released… This heat has to be released. And so our Mother Earth is doing that. And we are… If we are paying attention enough to our spiritual journeys, we realize that humanity, throughout the years, is responsible for injuring a great deal of the surface of the planet, our Mother Earth herself.

So that there needs to be a healing of the planet. And many people, as Ra said, are using visualization and meditation to attempt to heal those ruptures in the garment of the planet and to heal our relationship with Mother Earth, so that we all can go together into the fourth density of love and understanding.

Mm hmm. Yeah. So then from your, I guess, from your personal opinion, do you think that this whole COVID pandemic we’ve been experiencing might be kind of one of those manifestations of Mother Gaia releasing that anger of separation from the collective?

I think that and the demonstrations for racial equality are all efforts to find a path of unity amongst us all. Bringing all of this to the front, the forefront, so that has to be looked at. We keep our distance in… in a certain way in order to help others not catch any disease. We find other ways to be of service. We look at the demonstrations where there’s been racial inequality. And there’s so many people now that see how that needs to change. And in one way or another, they’re adding their energy to this change.

These are times that are turbulent times. But being of that nature, they offer a greater opportunity, I believe, for people to discover a spiritual journey that has inclusiveness as the foundation stone. And that we can use these difficult times to polarize more positively and to be of service of others. It’s not just separating for the necessity of keeping from getting disease, but of realizing that we are all in this together, that this is something that we all need to work together to find a solution.

And here in the United States, we’re not doing that great a job, right now. We’re kind of the black sheep of the world because we put our economy—getting back to the normal economic status—ahead of getting rid of the COVID-19. So now, a lot of people are having to backtrack. Here in Kentucky, there’s a wildfire of disease beginning to happen again. So we have to backtrack and do what other countries have done right away. You know? So, yes, this is a chance to learn - probably one of the greatest chances we’ll ever have.

Yes, and I’m so glad you said that because, you know, most of what people are wanting to talk about right now is the pandemic, the conspiracy theories of “Oh, this is what’s really happening, let me tell you, it’s the Cabal that are secretly planning whatever.” And I think that you can get lost in that maelstrom really easily if you want to.

But the way that I’ve sort of chosen just to look at this whole situation is just like you said - as an act or an opportunity, rather, for polarization and growth. Nobody loves wearing a mask in public 24/7. Even when I go to the gym… You have to wear a mask at the gym. So I’m like literally on the treadmill, sprinting with a mask on, you know, breathing in my own carbon dioxide, just going, “Oh, this isn’t very fun.” But I just choose to look at it, right, as this is my act of service to the world and my act of love of “Hey, if me wearing a mask can save one person, then that’s what’s really important.”


And I think, yeah, it’s just an opportunity for all of us to look inside ourselves and say, “Alright, let me put my ego aside and what my ego wants to say about this and just do what is being asked of me by society for the betterment of the collective.” Right?

That’s well stated. Well stated.

Well, we’ll transition now to the next subject I wanted to ask you about… The archetypical mind is another one, that you mentioned in the beginning, that is also kind of murky for me because it’s such a dense area of subject matter. But I guess what I would ask you, because it’s too much to like dive deeply into, is could you give like a brief summary of what the archetypical mind is, and sort of like how it’s broken down maybe, and just why it’s an important area of study for the adept?

Well, the archetypical mind has the mind, the body, and the spirit, and the Choice. There are twenty-two Major Arcana in the tarot. And those are the ones that Ra developed on Venus. They describe the nature of our evolution. They’re like a blueprint or architecture. So that…

Just take the first two: the Magician and the High Priestess, the conscious mind and the unconscious mind. Those first two are the basic way that we develop our conscious awareness in this illusion - the third density. The subconscious mind… there’s a veil between the conscious and the subconscious. So the Magician and the High Priestess have this veil between them. But the High Priestess is always giving information to the Magician, to the conscious mind.

Our subconscious minds are always helping us with our preincarnative choices by coloring the way we see how catalyst comes to us. Catalyst is the third card. So the catalyst comes to us. And we process it consciously one way or another, more or less efficiently. And we learn.

What we learn, then, it becomes experience. That’s recorded in the fourth card - the Experience. And all of this together forms the Significator - our significant self through all incarnations. This is happening through all incarnations, so that we have a certain kind of a soul or significant self that has learned certain lessons and knows that there are other lessons yet to learn.

And there are transformations that are necessary in order to learn them. So the sixth card is the Transformation. And the seventh is the Great Way. All of these seven cards then work together to process… help us process, in our conscious and unconscious behaviors, the catalyst we’ve programmed - in other words, to learn, to grow, to polarize, to be of service to others. There’s an interaction between all these cards.

And it works also for the body and the spirit. We know a whole lot more about the mind than we do body or spirit because we were able to question in depth and to finish the mind. We only got general concepts for the body and the spirit. But they’re… they’re generally the same for all three. And that’s… that’s basically… it’s an architecture…or a blueprint that gives us an idea about how it is we grow, how it is we polarize.

Okay, I like that definition a lot of a blueprint of how the soul grows or evolves into awareness. That’s very helpful. There’s a… there’s a session that I find really interesting where Ra says something along the lines of much of what people study when it comes to the archetypical mind… the areas of study are actually the functions of the archetypes but not the archetypes in and of themselves.


And I found that to be a very interesting dichotomy because you know, in astrology, we have tarot, different systems that help us to understand those functions of the archetypes. But Ra kind of encourages us to actually look at the archetypes as things in and of themselves.

Right. Yeah, the relationships is what astrology gets into.


And Ra doesn’t say that astrology is not a helpful practice. It’s just not one that they wish to have included in the tarot because it has certain distortions. They wish to have the astrology studied by itself, so that the tarot or the Major Arcana of the tarot could be studied as the qualities that each of us have. And these are the things in themselves.

They are particular to each other. They have… they each have something to offer in particular. And so that was the basic reason that Ra suggested that we divorce the astrology… Whenever we were questioning something on the card that was astrological in nature, they said, “Release that from its stricture,” because it’s a distortion, and you need to study that in another way. And they actually… they suggested that meditation was the best way to study the relationships or the astrological relationships.

So the tarot, though, it was supposed to be studied as qualities - they are these things that are defined within certain guidelines and can be utilized in a practical sense in our lives.

Right. Okay. I’m glad you said that as well because I hear a lot of feedback from friends of mine or people online who are big astrology fans who say, “Oh, Ra doesn’t like astrology,” or, “Ra doesn’t think astrology is helpful.” I’m like, “No, that’s not actually the case at all.” He’s just… like you said, he’s explaining the difference between areas of study. And I think also there’s a passage where Ra does say that both the tarot and astrology are very helpful mediums that the adept can use individually to study the archetypical mind. And that once you’ve, you know, really dove into one of those mediums, via the tarot or astrology, that it’s helpful to go to the other one as well, just to get a nice kind of 360-degree view.

Right? Yeah, you can use them all.

Yeah. So there’s essentially seven Major Arcana for the mind, seven for the body, seven for the spirit. And then the 22nd is The Choice. Correct?


And then… so is it that there’s the Matrix, the Potentiator, the Significator each for mind, body, and spirit? Is that right?

Right. Yeah. And the Catalyst, and the Experience, the Transformation, and the Great Way. They’re all the same.


They’re all the same categories for mind, for body, and for spirit.

Right. Okay. That’s very helpful. Wow, I finally feel like I understand the archetypical mind a little bit better. Thank you for that. That was great.

It is definitely the most challenging information that Ra brought through. But you could tell that Ra was so excited to be talking about it because occasionally, they would say, “Oh, student. You have barely grasped that which was intended.” The “Oh, student,” you know?

Yes, yes.

Let’s you know…

I’ve said that as well.

…they’re excited about it.

“Look again, oh, student.”


One of the areas that is actually spoken of a lot in The Ra Material that doesn’t get as much attention from people, I think, is that of the sexual energy exchange. And so, you know, when I read the material on those passages, I find myself coming up with a lot of questions because it is, again, kind of another area that there’s a lot… there’s a lot of density to that subject material. But I think my first question that comes up for me when I listen to those sessions is how Ra talks a lot about how sexual energy can be a very powerful catalyst for spiritual polarization.

And so I guess I’ll make a statement, and you can let me know if you think it’s accurate or not according to The Ra Material. But just to kind of put it in practical terms for everyone, could we say that having sexual intercourse with your partner as an act of service to them—meaning you’re thinking of their pleasure, their fulfillment rather than your own—is what would create positive polarization. And then sexual intercourse used as an act of domination or control over the other for your own pleasure would be negative polarization.

That’s absolutely correct.

Okay, great. That’s more or less how Ra lays it out, but you know, Ra tends to speak in very grandiose language.

Right. They talk mostly about how the sexual energy transfers between Carla and myself were helpful in powering the Ra contact…


…because they… we discovered it on our own. We had to make a lot of discoveries on our own because free will was the basic quality that they wanted to ensure was always maintained. So they couldn’t tell us a lot of things that would help out. But we discovered ourselves that if we had sexual intercourse the night before a session, the session was much longer…


…than if we didn’t. So that increased Carla’s vital energy, which was what Ra used in the contact in order to be able to speak the words. When her vital energy ran low, then they said it was time to close. So Carla had very little physical energy. And the vital energy was a combination of the mind, the body, and the spirit energy used in a spiritual function or way. And so we dedicated the sexual energy transfers to the Ra contact.

Now, I believe that any other entities, any other couples, could use this sexual energy transfer in the same fashion in order to further their own spiritual journeys. They could dedicate it to the One Creator - seeking the One Creator - so that it would not only be shared between them, but it would be a vehicle in which they could more effectively seek the One Creator and the experience of the Creator and experiencing it in higher and higher energy centers or chakras.

Yeah, there’s a passage where Ra explains the types of energies that the masculine principle and feminine principles will translate to one another. And I believe they say that the male principle is higher in, I think, vital energy. The female principle is higher in love and compassion. And so when the mated pair exchanges that sexual energy, the female will be left with more vital energy from the male, and the male will be left with a feeling of more love and compassion sent from the female. Is that correct?

In general. There’s a more specific type of description, though, that I think might be helpful. The male has physical energy…


…that is more abundant than most females. And most females have the emotional and mental energy that inspires the male. And those are in general. So the vital energy is a quality of its own. So that you see the mind, the body, and the spirit contributing to vital energy when they are used in a spiritual function.

Got it. Yeah. Okay, that helps clarify then. So then would you say that, basically, you know, in terms of exchanging green-ray energy, that two people in a loving partnership who have sexual intercourse are just automatically exchanging the green-ray energy? Or does it require something more than that? 1

The green ray energy has to be activated within each entities heart chakra. Being able to see all people as the Creator is the basic quality… and be able to love unconditionally all people just because they’re there, because you know they’re the Creator - that opens the heart center. And that is the place where the energy transfers begin. If the heart is not open, these transfers can’t happen. The heart has to be open. And once you get to the heart, then the other centers are… are potentially available to be opened, depending upon your own individual spiritual journey - where you’ve gotten in your own seeking.

I see. Okay, so it’s not enough necessarily for two people just to love one another to exchange green ray energy, but they have to actually have done spiritual work on their own green ray first.


Okay. And the same would go for blue ray or indigo ray transfer.

Yeah, yeah. The energy transfer begins at the green ray.

Yes. Okay. Yeah, because Ra does talk a little bit about how, in a more of a negatively polarized sexual energy exchange, it’s always going to be, you know, red ray or orange ray primarily, right?

Yeah, negative energy can be transferred in the yellow and the orange, but it’s negative. It’s one controlling another.

Right, right. Okay, fascinating.

Okay, then I think we’re going to end on the juiciest possible topic from The Ra Material. You know, we’re in such interesting times right now in so many ways. And I think I’ve personally been fascinated by this, and I’d love to hear your… your take on this, by just the amount of or the frequency or the increase of UFO sightings recently, not just by the average Joe, but like our actual military personnel - fighter pilots going on podcasts showing video footage saying, “Hey, we saw this thing. Eleven of us saw it on radar with our naked eye,” you know, “A shape like a tic tac,” “It flew right past us,” “It defied gravity,” “We have no explanation for it.”

We’re seeing so many more instances like this happening now. And I also find it interesting that during this whole time of the pandemic, the… you know, the George Floyd incident and all this kind of collective pandemonium, that suddenly the Pentagon comes out, I think maybe a week ago and says, “Hey, you know, we have… we have possessed craft that we know for a fact was not created here on planet Earth.” It’s like, how is this not the only thing anyone’s talking about right now?

So… so that gets me thinking about a lot of things and… and especially when it comes to the Ra contact and how Ra explains why there are some UFO sightings, why ETs have contacted Earth in the past. And Ra says that they came to Egypt because it wasn’t a violation of Egypt’s free will because they were a pantheistic society at that time and all of that.

This gets me thinking about the Fermi Paradox. And, you know, for those listeners who may not know what the Fermi Paradox is, it’s essentially just like the more of the scientific term for the question of: If the universe is infinite as it appears to be, and we know there’s trillions of planets in the habitable zone, and there should be life out there, why don’t we see aliens flying all over the place all the time? Right?

So my… I have sort of like a personal theory about the Fermi Paradox that became pretty apparent to me from reading The Ra Material, and I’d love to hear your take on it. And it’s essentially that I think, as Ra explains, you know, higher density beings have the positive polarity, like you said, their utmost concern is preservation of free will. And not only for us, but for their own polarization, they don’t want to infringe on that. So I think that the reason we don’t have contact yet is because probably higher density beings are maybe waiting for us to initiate contact, to say, “Hey, we know you’re out there. We’re open and ready for contact.” And until we do that, you know, more or less collectively, I would think, they’re probably not going to contact us out of preservation for our own free will.

But I think Ra does also mention that there are many UFO sightings that happen because these higher density beings are trying to… I think they say kind of open us to the mysterious and get us adjusted to the fact that we’re not alone in the universe. So what do you have to say about all of that, and what your maybe… your personal theory is?

Well, Ra suggested that the UFO phenomenon was one which was hopefully going to introduce people to the concept of the unknown… and the unknown and infinity. Once we could begin to… begin to think about those concepts, then we will be opening ourselves to a greater path of seeking within ourselves. If we think about the infinity of all the creation, then you wonder, “Who made it? Where did it come from? How do I fit into this? Is there some philosophy that can describe this?” And then you become a seeker of truth.

And as you become more and more a seeker of truth, then more of that truth of the unity and infinity of all things becomes available to you. In your own journey, the right book, the right person, the right experience at the right time, starts happening. These coincidences and synchronicities start happening.

So it’s all because this one thing, this one UFO - unidentified flying object. “Where was that? Who was that? How is that? Are they part of this infinity?” They’re just meant to get us to start thinking, you know…


To exercise our minds, and then to exercise our spirits and our desire to know. We all have the Creator within us. The Creator made us all. And there is something inside each of us that wants to be explored and wants to be shared and wants to share. And this UFO is just a catalyst towards that end of discovering that we are all infinite beings, we are all part of the Creator, we’re all here to help each other. We’re here to be of service, we’re here to take Planet Earth into the fourth density under whatever conditions are necessary.

If there’s got to be a pandemic and demonstrations for racial equality, so be it. Let’s do it together. Let’s work on this. Let’s see what we can find out. So I believe that the, you know, the UFOs throughout our history have had that purpose: to make us question, “What is infinity? What is the unknown and how do I fit into it? How do we all fit into it?”

Mm hmm. Yeah, beautifully said. So then do you think that the… at least it seems to me like the… the sightings and encounters are increasing a lot as of late. Do you think that might be happening as a result of the fact that our planet just kind of did shift into fourth density? And in the same way that wanderers would come to our planet to aid in that transition, maybe UFO sightings are sort of doing the same thing?

It could well be that. For me, I would say that there is… there are people who are able to see those UFOs and other people can’t. Although there are, as you said, the video footage of these UFOs. Usually there is some specific group of people that is susceptible to being inspired by such a sighting - that they have eyes to see and ears to hear that others do not have. I think maybe there is more of a general awareness of these UFOs now, hoping that more people will consider the possibility that there are not only UFOs, but there is a greater story behind these UFOs. That it’s not something that is so alien to us, so we say.


It’s something that we can all share together in something in which we all have a stake, a reason to want to grow together. That these are, you know, to inspire us to do that.

Yeah, because it has been sort of, I guess, hypothesized or theorized for many decades now that our government has known about, you know, ET contact or UFOs and have purposely kept it a secret from the collective so not to incite pandemonium or fear or what have you. But I think it might also be for more selfish motives, like keeping certain technology or whatnot. But you know, there was the whole Bob Lazar incident in 1989. He came on the news and said, “Hey, I’ve been back-engineering this craft with… in a base S-4 here in Nevada,” and all that. And people… you know, it’s so kind of out there that people just go, “Oh, wow, fascinating,” and just kind of don’t think much about it. But the implications are so large, right?

I think that maybe our government… I find it interesting the timing the way it’s happened that during this whole pandemic, you know, I think that there’s so many sightings happening by our own military, like I said, people going on radio shows, podcasts, news stations, just openly talking about this - people with credentials that are believable - that I think that maybe the pressure’s getting turned up a bit on our governments where they’re like, “Okay, we’re going to have to let the cat out of the bag that we’ve known about this for a long time and have kept it secret. So when is it good time to divulge this information?” And you know, as soon as this whole pandemic hits, they’re like, “Hey, by the way, we have UFOs. Carry on.”

Yeah, it’s a wild and crazy world, and UFOs are part of it, and they have a message for us.

Well, Ra suggested that in the past, they were only able to walk among the Egyptians when there was an entire consensus of the culture in which they were contacting. And I think that’s basically probably going to be the rule here too. And it’s rather doubtful that we could all come to a consensus on UFOs.

Although anything is possible. Ra suggested that the possibility for this planet to have a harvest of everybody is very small, but it’s still there.

In one fine strong moment of inspiration, we could all choose to polarize positively. So the possibility is there; the probability isn’t so great.


But we can never, as they said, turn our back on the possibility because it is ever present. So the possibility of UFOs coming amongst us all and everybody being able to accept them is small, but it’s there. So we just have to be open - open in our hearts, and open in our minds, and open in the way we consider what might happen.

Right. Yeah, well said. There are some people who - I’ve had many conversations like this - who will, you know, immediately be skeptical of the validity of The Ra Material because Ra says kind of in the opening sessions that, you know, they visited Egypt, that’s kind of where the origin of their name comes from, that’s what they were named by the Egyptians. And people will kind of read that and go, “Well… Oh, come on. You expect me to believe that, oh, they just happen to visit back then, but they don’t visit us now? And we’re so much more evolved than that those cultures were.” But I think actually the opposite is true, right? Where because the world was isolated back then - there wasn’t internet, TV, social media; there was no collective communication - each culture was kind of an island in that sense, right?


Where they could sort of pick and choose what culture they can visit. And I think they said they visited some cultures in Latin America, maybe the Mayans or something. Because they were, you know… they met the requirements of being pantheistic, and all of that. 2 But in today’s world, everything is connected. You know, we have the internet. We have TV. So the whole planet is essentially one civilization now. So the qualifications might be a little harder to meet in that way, right?

I think so. But it’s possible.

Yes. Yeah. I’m very hopeful that, you know, these kinds of events that are happening in our world today are bringing us together more and more, as time goes forward. And I think we will get to a point soon, where, you know, we’re so aware of our own problems - whether that’s government corruption or polluting the planet or all the other things we could name - where we say, “You know, we’re glad that we’re not alone. We would like to receive higher wisdom from, you know, higher density beings who can maybe help us out with our collective issues.”

But again, we have to come together first, as a collective, to ask for that help. And I think, who knows how long that might take. But I’m very hopeful for the future in that way because there’s a lot of… nobody could have seen any of this coming in 2020. But I think the amount of sort of collective shadow work that we’re doing through this is just profound. And the positive effects from that are going to be seen in our very near future.

I think you’re very right. I think you’re very right.

Well, Jim, thank you so so much for coming on the show today. It’s been an absolute pleasure speaking with you and getting to pick your mind a little bit. Before we go, just tell us where people can reach you, find out more about L/L Research and the work that you guys are doing.

We have an archive website: www.llresearch.org. Now that has all of the information we’ve ever gathered in a number of books and channelings. And everything is available for free in the form of PDFs - you can download whatever we’ve done with no charge at all. We have books that you can buy, if you wish to have it in a book form. And that’s basically… Oh, and we also have a social website - www.bring4th.org - which people can engage in forums, and they can talk back and forth about various topics of the Law of One. So those are the two ways to get a hold of us right now. Eventually those two are going to be joined together. We’re going to have in one new website in the next few months. So it’ll still be the archive website, www.llresearch.org. So come see us. See what we’ve got. We’re happy to share with you for free. That was Don’s great dream to share all this information worldwide for free. And the Internet has allowed us to do that.

Yeah, definitely. Well, I’ll be putting all those links in the description box below. And you guys also have a YouTube channel, right? Where I’ve seen recently, you’re putting together a lot of really great kind of short video episodes on certain topics from the Law of One. And I found those to be extremely helpful, and I know many have as well. So I’ll be putting the link to that in the description box below also.

Oh, thank you so much.

Oh, absolutely. And I think I speak for all of us, Jim, when I say thank you so much just for, personally, the work that you’ve done, and in bringing this material forward into the world, you know, along with Don and Carla. For myself, saying that “it’s been life changing” wouldn’t begin to describe it. So thank you for that. And thank you again so much for being on the show today.

Thank you for having me. It’s been a great honor, and I’ve enjoyed it a great deal.

Thank you, Jim. All the best.

  1. Ra seems to indicate that energy is exchanged by virtue of an opened green-ray within polarized (service-to-others oriented) entities.

    Ra: If both entities are well polarized and vibrating in green-ray love any orgasm shall offer equal energy to both. #84.16

    To speak to Aaron’s question, while the exchange happens most powerfully and effectively through the experience of orgasm, sexual energy transfer can occur even without orgasm *as long as *“both entities are aware of this potential and release its strength to each other by desire of the will”:

    Ra: [Sexual energy transfer] may be seen to be at its most efficient when both entities have orgasm simultaneously. However, it functions as transfer if either has the orgasm and indeed in the case of the physically expressed love between a mated pair which does not have the conclusion you call orgasm there is, nonetheless, a considerable amount of energy transferred due to the potential difference which has been raised as long as both entities are aware of this potential and release its strength to each other by desire of the will in a mental or mind complex dedication. #84.13

  2. In Ra’s one mention of pantheism, they indicate that they contacted an entity who was seeking not pantheistically, but the One.

    When you contact the entities in their dreams and otherwise, these entities, I assume, have to be first seeking in the direction of the Law of One. Is this correct?

    I am Ra. This is correct. For example, the entities of the nation of Egypt were in a state of pantheism, as you may call the distortion towards separate worship of various portions of the Creator. We were able to contact one whose orientation was towards the One.