Everyone, I’m Joy Jackson, the backyard mystic, and welcome to my Soul Ascension Mastery series. I’m very pleased to announce that I have some very special guests joining us today. We have Jim McCarty, Gary Bean, and Austin Bridges of L/L Research. As some of you watching may know already, L/L Research is home to The Ra Material transcripts and The Law of One material, a non-profit organization dedicated to discovering and sharing information for the spiritual advancement of mankind.

Jim, Gary and Austin have kindly accepted my invitation to join us today to talk about their work at L/L Research and about the spiritual principles shared within The Law of One and other L/L Research channelings.

Thank you all for being here and joining us today. I really appreciate it.

It’s an honor. Thank you for inviting us.

Yeah, thank you so much.

Glad to be here.

All right. Well, if you don’t mind, there is one question actually that I did have come in from the audience and this, I think, is a great question for those that maybe aren’t familiar with your work. How did L/L Research start, how did that get going?


Well, that goes back a ways to 1961—62. Don Elkins was a professor at that time at the University of Louisville teaching physics, but his real love was trying to find out the answers to mysteries of life, how big is the universe, who made it, how does it work? So, he found out that science didn’t have those answers. They could only go so far in physics, chemistry, electrical engineering, and so forth, so he started doing other things. He started regressing people in the mid-50’s to prove to himself that many lifetimes and reincarnation was the way we really progressed on our spiritual paths. And then he came into contact in about 1961 or so, with this information from a group in Detroit, and it was produced by a Walt Rogers, who had had a contact with an extraterrestrial entity, face to face, apparently, and he exhibited what was called at that time, the “lingering telepathic contact”.

So, this entity, who was part of a group mind called Hatonn, suggested to Walt that he get a meditation group together to see if they could meditate and receive information of a spiritual nature from Hatonn, and apparently was successful, and they produced what was called at that time “The Brown Notebook.” This contained information from Hatonn [that instructed] Walt Rogers’ group as to how a person could set up his or her own group to receive information like this.

So, Don got ahold of this information and decided to try an experiment with some of his students from the University of Louisville physics class that he taught. He had about 12 students there, and he suggested to them that they meditate about once a week. One of the students had a girlfriend, her name was Carla Rueckert, and he asked if he could bring Carla to the group, and Don said, “Sure.” So, after about three or four months of them all meditating together once a week, each one was getting some sort of an apparent contact. They were getting what we would call “conditioning.” Their mouth perhaps would open and shut, their tongue would flop around, maybe they would get sensations on their forehead, or the hair on their arm would raise, but nobody was saying anything.

So, Walt Rogers came down from Detroit and joined the group, and he began channeling Hatonn, and Hatonn said that they had contact with almost everyone in the group, but everyone was hesitant to speak any words, thinking the words in their mind were coming from themselves. So, the scientific precision of the experiment was blown by Walt channeling Hatonn, but at that time, eventually everyone, except Carla, learned how to channel.

[Sometime thereafter, Carla got married and moved away. Her husband eventually] asked her for a divorce. And she came back to Louisville and rejoined the group, which at that time was called “The Louisville Group.” So, the day after the divorce was final, in November, of 1968, Don moved in with Carla and they began working right away. [Two years later, in 1970] they formed at that time what was called “The L&L Company,” and [six] years it became L/L Research. So, that’s the long story of where L/L Research came from, but it was born of channeling.

Wow, that’s a great story. Thank you so much for sharing that with us, Jim, because, I really appreciate hearing it again, too. And, as far as all of you, I was introduced to your work through your podcast, “In the Now”, about five years ago, when Carla was still with us, and it drew me in immediately. The Ra Material, your channelings, your show, I have to say that not only was the vibration just so high and so clear that was coming through, but what I loved about it was that it was that the information coming through wasn’t asking anyone to abandon anything or to change who they were, it was really, from my experience, about just embracing more of who we are, and becoming more in touch with that, and it made me want to lean into it more and more, and I thought it really helped to accelerate my own seeking, my own transformation process.

I’m curious for all of you, how did were you introduced to L/L Research? What was your story?

Well, Gary, why don’t you start and then Austin can follow, since that’s the order you all came in?

We’ll stick to chronology here. By the way, Joy, that was a really good description of your own response, rather, your own reaction to this material. I really resonated with that. So, regarding my own introduction to this: in 1998 spiritual seeking had gotten underway with me. I’d read a book called, Fingerprints of the Gods by Graham Hancock, and in that book he assembled evidence from all over the world, especially in the form of the monolithic structures that present engineers and historians still can’t quite explain, to suggest that there was an original civilization on Earth. That book blew the top off for me. The box I had been formerly inhabiting had opened, and unbeknownst to me, at that time, a spiritual seeking had gotten underway.

I had started thinking philosophically, asking questions about the meaning of life and my own identity, and the purpose and function of what we’re doing here, and, through a series of synchronicities, within a year and a half I had discovered Book I [of The Law of One] online in January 2000. Though I had yet to develop a good background in metaphysics or philosophy or spirituality, by that point, nonetheless, Ra’s words just leaped off the page to me, and into my being, and my eyes were waterfalls, as I like to say. I had found my philosophical home. It struck such a deep cord of resonance and it’s continued to do so to this day. That was 18 years ago, and I have yet to find an end to the utility or exhaust the inspiration that comes out of that material, and with it, the guidance and the love and so on. But, yeah, how about you, Austin?

Yeah, it’s a story I can make long or short, so, I guess my journey started about ten years ago, my spiritual journey. Before that I was pretty hard-core atheist, kind of anti-spiritual. Had bad experiences with religion, not directly, but I spent most of my school years in the Bible Belt, and I didn’t go to church, and so I had some bad experiences with religious kids who didn’t appreciate that. So I turned into this really bitter anti-religious, anti-spiritual person, and somewhere in my early 20’s about ten years ago, things just started opening up. I started asking questions, I was doing a lot of star gazing, and didn’t realize I was asking spiritual questions, but doing that kind of led me down this road of looking into UFOs.

As to UFO’s I had a similar attitude as spirituality, I thought the whole concept was silly. I figured people just didn’t know what they were talking about. And then the really big barrier that first came down was when I saw Edgar Mitchell, the NASA astronaut that walked on the moon, he was openly talking about how UFOs existed and how we need to pay attention to them. That just blew my mind that a NASA astronaut would talk about this and nobody else is paying attention.

I obviously, subsequently found out that this isn’t a rare thing—there are plenty of NASA engineers, astronauts, government officials, military officials—it’s pretty common to anybody who just goes looking. But that was the barrier that broke down and that led me down the path of discovering The Law of One, because it is that sort of extraterrestrial spiritual element, and it kind of married those two worlds of spirituality and UFO, and The Law of One sort of broke down that anti-spiritual barrier that I had developed. It was like a gong that just went off inside. I just saw the words and I wanted to reject it because I was very anti-spiritual and thought it was silly. They were talking about the One Infinite Creator, there was a bunch of stuff about the Bible, and a virgin chalice of water, and I really wanted to reject it outright, but I couldn’t. I just had to keep reading, and it just moved everything inside of me to the point of being a dedicated spiritual seeker.

And then in about 2013, which would be about six years ago now, I was involved in the forums on Bring4th and was hoping to moderate, and grew a working relationship with Gary, and in February of 2013, Carla, Jim and Gary invited me to move here to Louisville to help Gary out in the office and its worked out pretty well since.

It certainly has.

Amazing. And then, Jim, I know that you actually have been with L/L Research for quite some time and were actually present for The Ra Material transcripts when Carla was channeling. Is that right?

It is. It’s been so long ago that I have a hard time imagining it was this lifetime, but yeah, I was.

Oh, my goodness. I’ve just got to say, I’ve it right here for those that I’m sure many folks watching, if they don’t already have a copy, this is Book 1, and I know this was the first book that also drew me in to The Ra Material. I share some more experience when I first opened the book it didn’t matter so much that certain concepts were a little difficult for my mind at the time to grasp, or what not, but there was just a resonance within me, it was almost like it was a blueprint where it just all made sense, everything just started to lock right into place, like a coming home type of feeling. So after that I just couldn’t put them down, I got to where I was just reading a page a day, or two, and I think maybe all of you could speak to this a bit too. I know for myself it was something I had to digest, even though I read it quickly, I still had to go back and really digest each piece, because there is so much, its so rich, that I imagine it could easily take a lifetime to really integrate these principles. It really is talking about our spiritual evolution, not just this lifetime, but thereafter, which is infinite and ongoing.

Would each of you mind describing, from your definition, what is The Law of One? I have my own ideas of what that is, but I’d love to hear each of you speak to it, if you don’t mind.

Well, elders first, I guess. For me, The Law of One has been an introduction to my own heart. Carla and I read The Law of One for all the time that we were together in our 34 years, and we discovered that it would meet us wherever we were, no matter how many times we read it, how much we thought we knew about it, there was always something new coming from it. And for me, it has been a long journey towards finding out what I really feel and how I really want to be, and what my destiny might be here as being of service to others. The Law of One and The Ra Material that it came from, is something that is like a beacon, and it shows me what I want to do, and where I want to go, and how I want to get there. Basically, it is to see everyone as being one being. That the Creator that made us all has hidden itself within us, and its our job and our joy to go on this great search, and to try to locate the Creator and to share that love and light and unity that is there with everyone around us because after a while we discover that we’re talking to ourselves and talking to a greater aspect of ourselves, with great variety, and purity and intensity. So, for me, it’s my whole life and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Gary, how about you?

It’s always a tough one, but obviously a key, central question. So, what is the Law of One? There are multiple ways to tackle this question. One way is to say that in the infinite universe, all the planets, all the entities, all the thoughts, all the things, all the planes of existence, everything real or imagined is one being. Though there seems to be infinite varieties and infinite entities pursuing their [individual] courses of evolution, there’s really only one life being lived on the stage of the universe, and that life Ra calls The One Infinite Creator. That life is infinite. And the realms that we experience of mortality, of birth and death, and of separation from one another are what Ra calls “illusions.“These illusions are designed and planned by this One Being to elicit learning.

The One becomes many so that that One may know itself, Ra says. That’s the initial seed of the entire infinite universe: What Ra calls “intelligent infinity” discerns a concept, and that concept is essentially self-awareness, that It can know itself, so It manifests a plan of going about knowing itself, and we, at our human stage of evolution, are in the middle of that plan. We are the Creator manifesting itself on a return journey to the Creator.

Ra specifies that [the word “law” in] the Law of One is synonymous with “way”, so one could say the “way of One.” [They also say that] it is not a law among other laws, it is not one governing principle or idea or reality among others in the universe, it is the only one, the primal one from which everything else springs, including love and including light. They say that this cannot be specified by words, captured by words, equated by words—it can only be—their word—“approximated” by words.

And, ultimately, what I like to say about the Law of One is that it is beyond any philosophy, beyond any thought, beyond anything that can be communicated. It is the deepest living experience of who you are. So, that’s my take for today.

Powerful, thank you, thank you so much.

Yeah, that was a great and succinct and beautiful explanation, Gary, and I’ll probably build off of what he says just to get a little specific about The Law of One. What Gary, I think, is talking about is the grand concept and philosophy of the Law of One, and then the books themselves can be referred to The Law of One, and so what that kind of means to me is the greatest thing that The Law of One offers is that perspective that Gary and Jim both touched on, the grandest perspective, the most grand sense of purpose and experience and meaning inherent in the infinity and unity that is touched on there, but then in the actual material Ra kind of breaks that down into a pretty succinct, or clear and consistent cosmology that really helps us understand our context in the universe and understand where we are and how to better understand our experiences. It gives us tools and gives us different sorts of perspectives that allow us to further our spiritual evolution, find the love that’s inherent in every moment, and to ultimately make a choice of service, and I think that’s the greatest thing that I personally got out of the material, is just the tools and the context that it gave me and the grand perspective.

Thank you all. Each of you gave such a beautiful and yet unique perspective on what The Law of One embodies for you, and then also more of the macrocosm too, because I, myself, I used to be, well, I say used to be, I imagine there’s definitely times where I’m very compartmentalized because that’s what the mind tends to want to do, keep things neat and tidy. Especially my earlier years of my spiritual growth, I really wanted to compartmentalize everything. Ufology was over here, spirituality was over there, my health was over here, the mind/body/spirit was very compartmentalized, and even until just more recently—I’m not saying I’ve mastered that by any means because I’m still very much another bozo on the bus as they say, but what I found with The Law of One is it’s helped me to really work through creating a synergy between the mind, body, and spirit; that it is about creating this harmony, and that The Law of One, that was beautifully put, that any other what we think of as laws or principles that we’ve been taught, really are just a result of one great way of being—like the law of relativity, we often hear it referred to as. The Law of One has given us an opportunity to know ourselves, to really experience what I call “school room Earth” and a way to see what our potential is: who are we, what can we do, what can we create, and what does it look like in the absence of love and light. What does that look like, why do we value those aspects of ourselves? So it does feel like a tremendous gift, but I realize for a lot of us coming into this, well, now I know the fourth density, but most of us, I think, here, came in in that third density, that forgetting, to come into life just completely unconscious of who we are. It is really coming out of this amnesia, and it’s like it gives us an opportunity when we’re here to kind of experience everything through these new eyes of a child, and reawakening that inner child, at least that’s what its been like for myself, and I find that it just keeps me reaching for more and more, the more I dig into it, because I keep learning more things about myself.

When I think of the term “mastery” it’s not that we’re going to necessarily always have an end point where we’re going to have it perfected, but it is about just integrating and integrating, refining. I almost think about it as polishing the stone, just peeling back the layers. I never tire of just opening up the book and I can just instantly be taken to what I needed at that time, if you know what I’m saying. I don’t find that the material has any problem translating to so many areas of spiritual seeking.

Actually, before I forget, because I had a couple of questions written down, but it’s easy for me to get so drawn in to what we’re speaking to, and what not. There’s a lot of discussion, I know in the forums I’m in, about the harvest, or the cycle, the cycle that we’re in, this new cycle that began approximately at the end of 2011, at the beginning of 2012. I get asked a lot about what the harvest means, what is that exactly, because so many people can take the word and get a lot of different ideas, but would each of you mind speaking a little bit to that, and how is that been affecting each of you since we’ve been coming through this period, because I know The Ra Material talked about the time that we’re in, that it would be coming, and that it would be a very significant turning point in humanity’s evolution. If you each could talk a little bit about that, I’d really appreciate it.

Well, I think what most people are talking about when they talk about the harvest, is that a group effort to move into what Carl Jung called the “collective unconscious”, but in this harvest, we are hoping that this collective unconscious becomes a collective consciousness—that all entities within it would be seeking the Creator in the same fashion. That’s the general idea after 75,000 years, after each 25,000 period there’s a chance for this indexing to happen—to harvest, and usually, a certain amount are harvested or graduated after the first 25,000, more after the second, and usually the harvest is completed after the third 25,000 years.

But, in the case of Planet Earth we seem to be unique in the universe, relatively. We have a lot of folks here who have already been through the 75,000 years on other planets and were not able to make the harvest and are attempting to make it here, and that is probably one of the reasons why we have so many difficulties right now here on Earth. But individuals, at any time, can harvest themselves if they are able to, as Ra said, make contact with Intelligent Infinity. Various mystics and saints, yogis, Jesus the Christ, the Buddha, Lao Tsu, and many others have been able to do that throughout the years and be able to lead in a certain fashion, more into this graduation or harvest.

But the religions of all the planet here have been in some way tainted with divisions and difficulties and certain tightly held concepts that haven’t helped their population to make it to the harvest. For all of us to make it, it seems that what we have to do is to be able to polarize our consciousness, sort of like you would a car battery, to make a difference between your positive and negative aspects, so that the positive is, in effect, more than 51% of the time, so that all the catalysts or experiences you have, if you can respond with love, 51% of the time to anything that happens, no matter what it looks like, then that means that you can make the harvest. But, that’s not so easy to do, and there are a lot of folks in what is called the “New Age Movement” that are working very hard on that, daily attempting to use meditation and contemplation, and service to others as means of enhancing not only their own ability to polarize and make the harvest, but to help others along the way, because that’s the way we do it. If we can be of service to others purely enough then we’ll make that harvest.

Apparently, the harvest has been going on since roughly 1935 or so. Ra said, back in 1981 that the first glimmerings of the harvest had begun 45 years previously, which is about 1935, just before World War II. So, we’re rough 72 years into it, and supposedly, according to Ra, although we cannot predict exactly how long it will take, 100 to 700 years, is about what they suggested. So, we’re working on it, and it’s a work in progress—all of us are. So, that’s my take on it.

Indeed. I’m glad you mentioned that Jim, too, because, even myself, as you said it I had missed that it had begun that far back, and yet that makes sense, actually, just to me because I’m thinking what was going on around that time, and talk about being a pivotal point, turning point for humanity when we look at what’s historically—what’s taken place since that time, our duality, really starting to, it’s almost like we’ve started to hit an apex. I think when these things are trying to come to the surface, looking at some of the world wars that occurred around that time, and even just with more and more accounts of UFOs. Just the quests for who we are, even though it may have looked a little messy [laughter], it still looks a little messy, we were looking for the outside in, thank you, yeah, it’s been quite, I think its been going on a lot longer than a lot of us realize, in other words. Wow.

And wanderers—I’ve come to know my own definition of what a wanderer is, but what is a wanderer? What does that mean?

Gary, do you want to take that one?

Sure. Quick technical question: Does the recording just show the person that is talking or does it show all five of us, like when you publish this?

Oh, it just shows the person talking at each time.

Okay. Like when I’m not talking, I’m concerned about moving too quickly and being distracting or something.

You’re fine. Yeah, you’ll be fine. I do the same thing. Sometimes I’ll be sitting here kind of going, “Oh, that’s right, okay, they can’t see me right now.


Commence picking my nose. [Laughter] I won’t, I promise. So, you asked what are wanderers, and a wanderer is a term for a function, you could say. So, you were asking about the harvest, previously. And the harvest is something that happens at the end of—the harvest is a term used to denote both the time period and the process of graduating from one density to the next, so I will springboard off this concept of their being multiple densities, and say, Ra says that the universe that we experience… We are, as Jim was describing, at the human stage of evolution presently in the third density, but there are other densities above and below us. It is a vertical movement of evolution, as consciousness itself evolves from simple to more complex forms, and at each stage of learning and evolution and growth, consciousness is discovering more and more about who it is, what it is. For instances, the human obviously can understand much more about itself than can the animal. We have a higher level of self-awareness, but evolution doesn’t end with the human stage, there are densities beyond our own.

Quick highlight of the density structure. Overall Ra says our universe is divided up into seven densities. The term density is somewhat synonymous with dimension, so there are seven densities contained within an octave, much like a musical scale. So, we’re in the third density, and there are four other densities above our own in our octave—there’s the fourth and the fifth and the sixth and the seventh. And those densities above our own are populated with intelligent sources of consciousness, just not physical. They don’t have physical, chemical bodies like we do, and those densities have different realities, different physics.

Now I’m going to the question of wanderers. That was some back story.

No, I’m glad to hear you speak to it, because you’re answering a lot of things that I, so thank you. It’s fine, go where you will. It’s really fine.

So, about wanderers—these intelligent beings in higher densities want to be of service. They see the suffering and the sorrow on this planet—which every one of us is so familiar with on a daily basis. There’s too many ways to enumerate the disfunctions and disharmony and cruelty of this world and the ways that people hurt every day, and hurt each other. And this, according to Ra, and other sources like Ra, issues a calling from this planet—a cry of distress, you might say.

And these higher-density beings look at this planet and want to respond to that call. They want to help alleviate the suffering and to offer love and light, and they have various means of service from a distance. They can beam passively love and light to Planet Earth. They can send inspiration through dreams, or through a particular bubble of insight to somebody, they can offer consolation and healing energy,or again, there’s various ways they can reach from a distance. But one of the more profound ways that these beings of higher densities can be of service is to incarnate here on Planet Earth, become human, come up through the soil, so to speak, take on a human body, in a human lifetime, with human lessons and challenges, and so forth, and in so doing forget completely who they are and where they came from, forget their soul’s origin and become completely human, just like everyone else, the only distinguishing factor being that their soul is not native to this planet—it’s not from here, its from a higher density.

The hope of the wanderer upon incarnating is that they will remember their mission enough not to become a messiah, or have some great message for all of humanity because they’re going to be wonderful teachers and people are going to follow them, and they’re going to be beacons and examples, but rather they hope to remember enough that they recall that they’re here to serve, they’re here to open their hearts and shine love and light into this world, first and foremost, just by being who they are, authentically, by opening their hearts and practicing forgiveness. They may have a specific talent or mission or gift to share, they could be a brilliant film maker, they could be a wonderful mother, or a listener, there’s a myriad of talents, but ultimately they are here to love.

I’ll close this reply by saying that Ra says that the service that they offer [is one] of being. In seeking the light and opening the heart, they are shining light into the world [by their very being]. Ra says that that service literally lightens the planetary vibration. Our present vibration is heavy with thousands of years of war and economic inequality and subjugation and so forth, but love itself, the love that comes from the wanderer, lightens this world. It lightens the metaphysical darkness, and offers an ambiance of healing and clarity and the possibility of unity, and on and on, I could go, but sorry, that was my long reply.

I loved every minute of it, really. Thank you so much. Like I was saying you’re speaking to what I know everyone needs to hear, and densities, what is a density? You’ve explained that all so well in the framework. So, thank you, that was beautifully put. Very beautifully put.

Austin, I’m sorry, did you have anything you’d like to add about the harvest, or wanderers, or from your own experience, what that looks like?

I think Gary and Jim both did really well covering both of those topics. There’s more to touch on on anything. I guess one thing to talk about in regard to wanderers, is they’ve been called other names too. I think the more common name for them is “starseed”. They’ve been referred to as “apples” in some of the early contacts, and then maybe one interesting aspect to touch on is that there is a type of being here that is very similar to wanderers right now, call the “dual-activated” beings, which are a type of wanderer, but they differ from other wanderers in the sense that these are beings that have graduated into fourth density from third density and they are now incarnating on Earth because they are able to accept both third-density and fourth-density vibrations and the Earth will eventually be their home. They will continue to evolve with Earth’s fourth density, and that’s the primary difference with them and wanderers, while they are sort of unique in the sense that they’re the next step of evolution in the human path, they will remain here; whereas once Earth graduates, wanderers might then continue traveling on to other third-density planets or go back to their own density, continue their own path, or anything like that.

I’m glad you touched on that Austin, because like you were saying, I think everyone has come up with their own terms perhaps for these concepts, I know for my self at one point the best concept I had was like a student teacher, someone that comes back to help the graduating class, so to speak, kind of have a little extra help, getting to their graduation, but I was aware that our planetary consciousness was shifting into fourth density, but thinking about it, a lot of the children being born right now, I would imagine are falling into categorically what you’re defining, the bridge, I guess as you will, between that third and fourth dimensional shift. I know there are a lot of difference terms for children coming in, you know there’s the indigo children, or depending on when you were born, but I think right now maybe more than ever what you’re speaking to, would you all say that there’s probably a lot of the beings being born and why they’re seeming so hardwired, I guess you could say, for this fourth density or this frequency is because they’ve actually just recently graduated?

Yes, supposedly a lot of the children born currently are of this nature, like you said, they have a lot of different names, and unfortunately, there’s not a hard science where we can say, “These are the attributes of this type of child,” but it seems like more and more children being born are wired a little differently and are able to pick up on these vibrations.

Right. Now I’m thinking of my own daughter, and other children. It seems like they’re almost born in right now being their own little CEOs. [Laughter] They just don’t…because I’m still very conditioned, I realize I still have a lot of conditioning from when I came in, and it’s really interesting to see that organic response to a lot of the paradigms that are trying to fall away right now, to a little new being coming in because if I thought it didn’t make a lot of sense to me when I was younger, some of the paradigms that are starting to fall away that we’re just kind of outgrowing, one look at her face, if you present her with something…there’s no just falling in line with her, just accepting the status quo because it’s the status quo, there’s just so much, she’s just so inquisitive, and she really does seem to have this innate way of going to the beat of her own drum.

I’m noticing this in other children more and more, and that may be more difficult for the adults to adjust to, I think that’s it too. I know for myself, the material itself is very clear, I just think it’s the mind, we tend to get so stuck in our own programing that really struggles to have a hard and fast—we want everything to happen overnight, we think we’re supposed to be levitating, after we read the first four or five books. “I’ve been meditating everyday for a month. Why isn’t this working?” But that it is really a process, and a process that is very co-creative, it’s definitely not a passive experience. I’ve often looked at third density, that anything that we experience, shall we say, as being uncomfortable or bumps in the road, to just be a symptom of separation from who we really are, and that really all that’s about is just being able to find ways to really find that harmony that keeps us grounded in who we are in each moment so we’re at least able to respond from a centered place as opposed to that reactive place that we default to often times because most of us weren’t born into being taught to meditate or being taught that we’re more than the sum total of what we see with our five senses.

How have each of you found in your own lives practices that have helped ground and center you with the Law of One? That you’ve found the most beneficial so far, in your spiritual progress, and just helped you thrive?

Well, for myself, in the last few years since Carla passed away I’ve discovered a great desire to meditate, and meditations are something I had always known were helpful throughout my life. During the Ra contact I meditated the entire time sending energy to Carla, and periodically between that time and the last few years, but I didn’t do it so carefully. Sometimes I would use meditation to plan my day, which was not exactly what it was meant for, so now, I take it a little more seriously.I’m not a terribly good meditator, but I am very persistent and I see meditation as being the center of my life right now. That way is something that takes me to the heart of myself in a manner which nothing else has done.

I used dream analysis for many years, and that was very helpful and it got me where I wanted to go. After a while though, it was apparent that that had done its job for me and now it was time to meditate. So, I meditate, and I let that be the center of my day, and I always pray after each meditation I can do the will of the Creator, or the spirit or the Father, however you want to describe that energy that has made all there is, and I seek to have that be my will, and that’s something that is not always obvious, but I find if I am in doubt about what I should to, all I need to do is meditate and the answer will come.

That’s beautiful. Thank you, Jim. Gary, or Austin, I’ll let you pick who wants to go first.

Let’s disrupt the order: Austin.

Ok, fine. Jim took the big one, meditation, but I can build off that and say…

Leave some for me.

One of the most useful concepts in The Law of One that really helped me in my own experience was the idea of catalyst, and it’s a pretty big, deep topic, and it can probably be simplified by just saying that the things that we experience are catalyst for spiritual growth, and this is particularly true for those experiences that stand out in certain ways, whether it stands out in a really good way, or stands out in a negative way, and particularly for the negative experiences to shift that perspective of being something bad happening to you to being something that you can learn from, even if it is a particularly hard lesson, but it is still a lesson and a challenge to utilize for your own growth, that is probably one of the things that has aided me the most in my spiritual journey, is just that perspective, and in terms of a practice that helps to utilize that perspective,

I think similar to meditation but a little more specific is mindfulness. It’s a big buzzword nowadays and it’s something I harp on a lot on our own podcast, but I do think that mindfulness is one of the best and most useful spiritual practices that anybody can implement into their lives, because it helps us to be centered in the moment that we are experiencing, and it helps us to understand the mental chatter that’s going on in our head, pay attention to the patterns of thought and activity in our day that are actually mostly unconscious. I think a lot of people aren’t aware of how unconscious a lot of our thought and activity really, really is, and once I adopted a really dedicated mindfulness practice, I didn’t really know, even though I was already on a spiritual path, I didn’t realize that how much I was doing was just thoughtless, essentially, and then adopting mindfulness really helped with that, and it aids in the processing of catalyst, because you’re able to be fully aware of whatever [inaudible] and fully experience it, and fully feel the emotions that you feel and appreciate them for what they are, whether they feel bad or feel good, you can just fully absorb them and allow them to affect your being and integrate it in a way that allows for growth, and I think that its one of the best things that you can take up as a practice.

Well, sh—, there’s nothing left for me now. [Laughter]

Well, that was great.

Amazing answers from both of you guys and I don’t particularly—meditation is common to both Jim and Austin’s reply, and I also think that is core. So, I’ll do a little bit of a spin—Austin used the word “perspective”, and I think that is principally what The Law of One, or really any body of spiritual teaching offers, is perspective, a way to view the self and the universe. Sso part of my answer to your question regarding my own practices and what I use… I think spiritual study, in and of itself, is enormously beneficial. Whatever it is that lights you up inside—for us, obviously, it’s The Law of One, along with other sources—so refining my own understanding of that body of material has been enormously helpful, but like I said at the beginning, that The Law of One is, in actuality, the deepest experience of who you really are. Ra, likewise, points back to you and says that the journey we’re on is a journey of self-discovery, and it’s a long journey, and it happens not only beyond this lifetime into other lifetimes, but as we were describing, into other densities of evolution, and what we are discovering, to boil it down, is the Creator within us, we’re discovering ourselves as the Creator, we’re discovering others as the Creator, and we’re discovering everything as this One Being, incrementally, over time.

So, the philosophy itself becomes a lens through which you then look at yourself.I’ve examined my own life in these terms, and that lens always proves so helpful in helping to distill and clarify the moment in terms of what’s actually happening, what I’m actually doing, and what the goals are in terms of, I’m here to serve.

That one question alone, how can I be of service to others, how can I find love in the moment? Those sorts of questions are seeded in the material, but when they are applied to one’s actual life, and as Austin was describing, one’s catalysts, then it can clarify. Then you stop using the priorities of this world which are all geared toward self-interest and self-preservation and self-gratification, stop using that lens and those priorities, and flip the script, really, and you stop then becoming a victim of life, in terms of seeing all the terrible things that have happened to you, and realize that, again, as Austin was describing, that this was catalyst. And catalyst, by definition, accelerates and empowers one’s growth, if used. So, it’s the application of this philosophy to my life through conscious reflection, conscious asking, and I can’t say it better than Jim and Austin, did, through meditation and mindfulness.

Those were all great answers. You all honed in on something I thought that was very powerful and—I know that, for myself, meditation, has been the most effective tools I’ve had in my seeking, only in that it’s almost like you have to develop this muscle memory, because when I was younger I was a personal trainer, I moonlighted, doing that for a long time, and I started to realize in my spiritual seeking that in some ways I could apply strengthening a muscle to attuning with spirit, or strengthening the spiritual muscle, I guess you could say. The more you do it, it becomes more second nature. Getting into that—different people have different terms for it, but, the zone, or where you’re feeling very harmonized. Because the more I do it, the easier it is for me to remain in that place and stay grounded in that place, and it builds and grows, and kind of accelerates your seeking, because I also know that if I pull back from that, if I don’t do that, there is this feedback system in the external world—what’s helped me a lot, especially with this material, is really, really grasping that when I’m experiencing my external world, it’s coming from in here. It takes me out of that victim mentality that’s very easy to get into if we get caught up in 3-D living. I know that in my quieter moments, if I’ve really had a rough day, it’s up to me that I can start that over at any time by just getting present and centered. It’s amazing how all that can shift. When we start realizing that we’re the co-creators of our reality, it really just changes the whole game, doesn’t it? When it’s no longer about what’s being done to me versus what I’m creating. What do I want that to look like and how do I embody the frequency I want to see in the world? Sometimes we don’t give a lot of credence to what our imagination is for and can do, what that really does for the heart opening.

And, Carla—I’m sorry, I wanted to make sure we had some time to speak to—because I know she’s written some great books. She’s written some great books that I know have been helpful for myself and others that are trying to integrate a lot of what they’ve learned through The Law of One and that is The Wanderer’s Handbook, which was excellent, she’s written many, then Living The Law of One, The Choice, 101? I’m sorry if I’m not getting that quite right.

You got it.

Great. Because she’d mentioned something that you’d mentioned, Gary, that just popped, and that having a practice, or a focus, let’s say, spiritual seeking, whether, for her it was Christianity, for someone else it might be Buddhism. It may not necessarily be through organized religion, but to have a touchstone. For myself, I would say The Law of One has been a great touchstone in my spiritual seeking, but something that helps ground your focus, your practice, somewhat like a martial artist would do when they’re trying to really master a craft. It’s really about dedicating a focus, isn’t it?

She called it, “living a rule of life,” and the way that we expressed it together was each morning, after we got up and got ourselves dressed and so forth, we would have a morning offering. She started it when she was 12 years old, and she would read the Bible, and she would sing a hymn and she would say the Lord’s Prayer, and then when she got to be about 19 or so, and became aware of meditation, she added meditation. But after the Ra contact got going and we got married a couple of years after the Ra contact ended, we added The Law of One to this, and every morning we would read from The Law of One, read from the Bible—Old and New Testament—read from some other book of spiritual value, and then she would sing her hymn and then we would meditate. And that is something we did together for 28 years, and she did it for 60 years, so she felt that this morning offering was her foundation for the day, and that it was something she could carry with her throughout the day, and hopefully throughout the day she might take a few moments and meditate some more, or use the sound of the phone ringing, or the doorbell, or the whistle for noon, to stop and meditate for five minutes perhaps, so this became something that would expand throughout the day, and she called it a Rule of Life.

I love that. I do something with The Law of One—I have a couple other books that I use, but I like to, usually at the beginning of the day, sometimes do it at the end of the day, or just as needed, where I’ll just randomly open the book and see what page opens up, and then I’ll just read that passage, and it never fails—it’s always got what I needed in that moment, it’s perfect. It’s so true.

I could talk to all of you all day and keep you here hostage, but I don’t want to do that because I know you’re very busy and have been so kind in taking the time to speak with us today. But before our time runs out, what I would love to do, if you don’t mind, is to make sure that everyone knows where to find you, what events you might have coming up, and also, if you wouldn’t mind speaking a little bit about your “In the Now” podcast, and how that came to be, because I know that that was how I found your work, and it’s a great podcast for anyone who hasn’t been able to check that out, and you also put so much content on your Bring4th website. I love your daily quotes and there’s so much you put out there for seekers, just to be of service, I’m just so impressed with all the work you that you do, and how much you really do just give to the world, so how can people find you and how did that start with “In the Now”?

Austin, how would you like to take that one?

Sure. “In the Now” started as an internet radio show with Carla, and the host at that time, her name was Monica Leal, and I don’t know what year that started. Was it 2008? Do you know, Jim?

Pretty close to that. I couldn’t say for sure. That’s real close.

2008. That’s eleven years ago now. So, it started with them as a weekly radio show. People would be able to write in and ask questions and Monica would help post and get information out of Carla. Then it evolved into Jim joining her for a weekly show, and then eventually in 2013–2014, Gary and I joined as well, and we would join on the weekly call, and then after Carla passed, we converted from a blog talk radio show, to just a regular podcast. So that is currently hosted on our website, www.llresearch.org and on the left-hand menu there’s a menu item for podcast. We’re up to 81 episodes now, I think. We try to do it bi-weekly. We’re so busy that we’ve not been able to stick to that bi-weekly schedule for some time now, but we’re in a constant struggle to get back to that bi-weekly schedule.

But, yeah, the three of us join together every other week or so, we try to mostly focus on questions that people send to us, and we’ll sort of just discuss amongst ourselves whatever spiritual topic comes up that week.

And it is—it’s a great program. I know I’ve written in myself, and I’m always just so impressed with how organic your show is, but you all have such wonderful insights, and really grounded answers, too. I will often tune in and again, its like opening my little oracle. I just hear what I need to hear when I tune in. The topic that week will be just right on point.

Thank you so much.

Do you find that yourselves sometimes when questions come in to you. I realize it might work both ways—the questions that come in, do you find that they sometimes also spur a little, like, “Well, that’s been a kind of theme this week”?

Thequestions can be relevant to what we’re going through, but also, the questions teach us as much as we’re responding to them, because there’s so many times that a question comes in and I don’t know what I’m going to say, but you set your mind to the task and you start doing some research and start doing some contemplating, and then you realize, “Wow, there’s something there, there’s something to offer”, so, it’s a process of discovery and even revelation from a lot of podcasts.

Yeah, when people listen, you’re not listening to us speaking as authorities on a topic, we’re just stumbling through stuff, and it seems like at least some people like to listen to us stumble through these discussions.

I know I’m one of them, and thank you, Gary, actually, you touched on what I think I was struggling to try and ask. I know what you’re saying, because even myself often its through being asked the question that I seek sometimes the most interesting answers of self-discovery. It’s a co-creative process, isn’t it? That’s why I love talking about these topics because I always say I’m very service to myself, because I learn so much, in other words. From speaking to other seekers, I never feel like I’ll never be in this position of authority. I don’t mind sharing what I’ve learned, but for me, it’s always about the learning and I get so much from that.

Yeah, I can see why you like it. It’s a process of each one of us honing in on your word “co-creative”, you’ve used that a few times, and I couldn’t agree more. It’s like each one of us can push each other higher up the mountain than we could get on our own, so to speak, one way of saying it.

Thank you. And I know that I’m going to be putting all the links in the description box for everyone watching, so if you miss it, you don’t catch it, the information will be there. But, would you mind telling people what websites they can find you at, and do you have any events or anything coming up that you’d like people to know about? Things that you’re—I’m sure you do, so…I just…

Right up your bailiwick.

Who’s got the calendar.

Bailiwick commence. So, we have two main websites, the first is our archive website www.llresearch.org, and the archived website hosts virtually everything L/L Research has ever produced, that includes eleven-some publications now. I think we’re on our fifteenth translated language, and over 1,500 channeling transcripts that began to be preserved in 1974 and continue to this day, among some other things, like transcripts of interviews like we’re doing now, so it’s just this wealth of a library of information available to anybody who might resonate with it.

Our other website is www.bring4th.org and that hosts our forums and our chat rooms. The function of that website was to help people connect with one another, because wanderers and spiritual seekers find that they are scattered around the planet, not always with people to share with in their local area. So, we wanted to create a means for them to connect, and let me make another point or two about L/L Research and saying that this organization gives away all of its material for free, but to the interested seeker there is never any implication or any sort of message that suggests that anybody needs this material or that this is the one and only truth on Earth, or that they would be better if they used this.

We offer it sort of passively, with an attitude of if this works for you, then great, use it, that makes us happy, and if it doesn’t work for you, then set it aside because one of the core tenants, you could say, or rather a core permeating thought throughout all of the Confederation philosophy is a radical sense of self-authority and self-responsibility, meaning that each of us is responsible for our own truth and seeking our truth and determining what is true for us. We can certainly use and seek guides and other sources of information, but nobody can ultimately learn for us or tell us what is true for us, so we try at L/L Research to offer the material with that respect for the freewill of spiritual seekers. Sorry, long answer.

No, that was great because I was going to say, you do put out just a prolific library of free content to any seeker that’s drawn to it. I think that’s it. We’re innately drawn to what feels true for us, or what resonates with us, and I think that’s why this material has been grabbing such an increasing number of people. The saying, “the vibe attracts our tribe” or I think that if we drawn to it and it comes across our path there’s usually something to it for us, maybe not for everyone, but for us.

As you were speaking, I know I’m going to kick myself if I forget to ask one particular question, because it comes up a lot, and I understand who this collective is, but not everyone, I realize, who has read The Ra Material, or maybe has come across your work has maybe quite grasped who the Q’uo principle is, because I know the Q’uo principle has been a group of beings that L/L has been channeling for many years, and I know, myself, I love to follow the daily posts that you do on social media, and on your pages from the transcripts of the Q’uo principle. I know a lot of people are familiar with who Ra is, but how does the Q’uo principle fit? Who is Q’uo?

I know somebody who was there when they first appeared. [laughter]

After Don passed away, the Ra contact was over, and we went back for a while channeling the entities that we were channeling before the Ra contact, which was Latwii, and they were of a fifth density, and they had a great sense of humor, and very interesting information, and then all of the sudden this group came through called “Q’uo” in 1986. We channeled them for a while, I guess almost a year before we figured out maybe we should ask them who they are. So we finally did asked them, and they said that they were a principle—they were three planetary or group minds, and included our very first contact, Hatton, from way back in 1961 from the fourth density of love, and then, of course, Latwii, from the fifth density who was our contact before and slightly after the Ra contact, and then also, those of Ra were there in a stepped down version, from the sixth density.

So, these entities went together to form this principle that allowed us to have, what you might say, a distant relationship with those of Ra. A lot of people like the Q’uo information even better than the Ra contact because it’s easier to understand, and it’s poetic, and its more accessible, I think, in many ways. So, Q’uo has been the source that we’ve channeled since 1986 and is the source that we’re still channeling now in our Saturday meditations.

If anybody happens to be traveling through the Louisville area from September through May, on either the first or the third Saturday, we usually have Q’uo channelings then. Drop us a line before hand and let us know you’re coming, and we’ll send you some information and let you know how it all works, and we’d be glad to see you.

Oh, that’s great. I plan to come visit sometime, as far as I’m concerned. It’s been like this for a long time but this is making it feel like, “Okay, this needs to happen”. I’m sure there are many that’s watching that are writing this down too, because that would be an amazing experience, and I know that Carla, she’s just such a beautiful soul, I still just say a prayer and think of her often, because I know when she’d speak or when I’d read her words I just felt that it spoke to my soul, and I feel that way with all of you, honestly, because again, there’s just such a sureness of being and just such a humility to the way that you deliver this material, and I’m sure you are the perfect beings chosen for this mission, as far as I’m concerned. And I’m just very grateful that you’re all there doing this work, and I feel that it has been such a privilege to do my best to showcase what you’re doing, and to bring those drawn to it, and it’s been a tremendous gift and so I do want to extend that deep gratitude to each of you for all that you’re doing.

We’re very grateful for the invitation, and we thank you for doing your part to spread the word. You know, it takes all of us to help bring each other home.

Oh, I feel you, and you’re each welcome back to the show any time, because as I said, I could keep you here for hours selfishly, but I won’t do that because I know you’re quite busy, but I’d love to have you back, and I look forward to visiting quite soon, and I hope that you’re upcoming event—could be New Zealand you’re mentioning here soon. I hope that’s wonderful. That sounds pretty exciting, and thank you all for tuning in today to watch, again, L/L Research has just been putting out what I consider to be some of the most prolific and beautiful service-to-others work that I’ve come across, and I hope you will each, if you haven’t already, take the time to explore all the work that they’ve put out there. Again, so much of it is out there for free and that you can show them your support any way that you can.

Jim, Gary, Austin, thank you, I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much, it was great to be here.

Yeah, Joy, it was really awesome and listening to you speak, there were any number of different pathways we could have taken because you spoke very penetratingly and very lucidly and very beautifully about many subjects and it was a joy listening to you, so, yeah, like you said, there’s so much material to cover and so much we could have covered, so thank you, and your questions were really good too, and spot on, and central. Just another round of gratitude, thank you.

Oh, bless you, thank you. Well, everyone again, thank you for watching and please stay tuned for our next episode of Soul Ascension Mastery. Keep an eye out for L/L Research coming again to the show because I hope to have them back in the near future so we can hear all the exciting things that they’re up to, and I’m sure we’ll have more questions, and from our audience to engage us in another great conversation. Thank you for watching, and all of you just have a wonderful day. Lots of peace and love.