Ovadya Batat – Interviewer

Welcome to the tenth episode of Kabbalistic Mystic, a podcast for the Western seeker where we explore the Tree of Life and the ancient Hebrew wisdom as the lost spiritual heritage of the West. I’m your host, Ovadya Batat.

The year was 1980. A young woman named Carla Rueckert and a physics professor named Don Elkins, for whom she worked, were researching and documenting paranormal activities and attempting contact with extra-terrestrial beings through telepathy and meditation. They were determined to initiate contact with non-humans and had been doing so for almost nineteen years, working under the umbrella of a nonprofit organization called L/L Research, Light and Love Research, which they founded in 1970.

They were then joined in Louisville, Kentucky by a man name Jim McCarty. Jim was the founder of Rock Creek Research and Development Laboratories, an organization dedicated to the expansion of human consciousness. The chemistry between the three was instant and in 1981 they decided to merge the two organizations and work together.

Shortly after Carla and Don were officially joined by Jim in Louisville, they had an unexpected break-through. Carla, who was designated as the medium for the channeling, had fallen into an involuntary trance and started channeling an entity which called itself “Ra.” Little did they knew that this was the first contact in a fascinating, revealing series of interviews that would go on for three years until Don’s untimely death in 1984 and would form a body of work that would change their lives forever.

Their research has produced numerous books known as The Ra Material or The Law of One. This series of channeling was the first time in human history where real time questions and answers with a non-human entity has been recorded or even conducted. The Ra Material is vast, dense, it’s heavily concentrated, but it sheds lights on many historical, esoteric, spiritual and occult topics and it’s truly a gem to all seekers interested in the expansion of human consciousness and their spiritual development.

In this episode we’ll introduce the Ra material and discuss the direct connection between its content and the ancient Hebrew wisdom. We will be joined via Skype by Jim McCarty himself, who, with Carla’s recent departure in 2014, is the only living member of the three. All right, let’s begin.

Our story begins in Egypt about 3,500 years ago. It was about a thousand years after the pyramids were built. At the time they were used as tools of spiritual power by the elite of Egypt, the king, who was called the Pharaoh, which meant the great house; that was the man who housed the spirit of the enlightened one and his priests. When the pyramids were originally built they were intended to be used for the benefit of all people, but at the time when our story begins, the priests and those in power kept the knowledge to themselves and refused to share it with those who were less fortunate.

The high priest was the one responsible for the initiation of the king and those who were lucky enough to go through the enlightenment process. The process of initiation was a grueling and intense one, included mastery of various practices such as meditation, purification of the body and immersion in cosmic energy by lying in the king’s chamber which was strategically positioned location inside the Great Pyramid.

Not every king was successful at the challenging task of becoming enlightened. In fact, with the purity of the process being lost, the days when the kings had super powers such as the ability to read thoughts or tame wild lions sitting at his feet with the power of his mind were long gone. Still, the priests insisted on keeping the power and knowledge to themselves and kept passing it only to those trusted by the inner circle of the Pharaoh.

One day the Pharaoh had a couple of strange vivid dreams. In the first one he dreamt of seven fat, healthy cows that were eaten by seven skinny ones. In the second dream he dreamt of seven healthy, good heads of wheat being swallowed by seven skinny, sick-looking ones. And no one was able to interpret the dreams, but then the head of the army remembered that a young man named Joseph, Josef, who had an unmatched ability to interpret dreams was locked up in the palace’s prison. Joseph’s interpretation to the dreams was clear. While the next seven years are going to be prosperous, it will be followed by seven tough years of drought and starvation. The Pharaoh accepted his interpretation and in the following seven years he stacked up on supplies which saved Egypt in the next, in the following seven years after the prosperous ones. Those seven years were tough just as Joseph predicted. The Pharaoh made Joseph his right-hand man. This event was the one who made, who marked the rise of the Hebrew people, descendants of Abraham to a position of power in ancient Egypt. They were known as the Israelites after Israel, which was the spiritual name of Joseph’s father, Jacob, the grandson of Abraham.

A couple hundred years passed in which the descendants of Joseph have been close to the king, just as he was and as such they were aware of the secret knowledge of the spiritual initiation. And in those two hundred years the Israelites have prospered, but then a new Pharaoh has risen, one was who was intimidated by their power and chose not to honor the events of the past and so he made them slaves.

Now they suffered for many years until an unlikely leader rose from among them. His name was Moshe or as he is known in the West, Moses. He was the one who led them to freedom by escaping Egypt. But when the Israelites left Egypt, they did not leave empty-handed. They took something with them, the secret knowledge of the process of enlightenment to pass generation after generation from Joseph, who was close to the king and his priests.

This knowledge left Egypt with them. It was hidden in a language spoken by very few, a language beyond space and time, the ancient Hebrew. Its twenty-two letters which corresponded to the twenty-two Egyptian major arcana tarot drawings were, in fact, a map for human consciousness, evolution and self- illumination. Carrying this knowledge with them, hidden in a language which slowly became their spoken and written tradition, the Israelites exposed themselves to many risks and dangers.

Over the following centuries, the process of initiation was replicated to various degrees. In some, such as King David and King Solomon, were successful at achieving various levels of illumination, but for over 1,300 years very few truly understood the hidden knowledge buried in those sacred letters. The knowledge slowly formed into stiff rules and religious regulations; many put in place to make sure no pieces of the ancient tradition will be lost.

But then accounts of a man named Jeshua, the son of Josef, Joseph, who was performing miracles, have surfaced. The man, who was thought and believed by many to be enlightened, was later renamed by the descendants of his followers to Jesus. It is believed that he was able to decipher the knowledge hidden in the Hebrew letters and was the only one who has completed all seven stages of enlightenment.

His success has intimidated the rabbis, who were caught in the stagnated, rule-based heritage of the Israelites, now called Jews. And to them, Jeshua was a sinner and a fake and so the end is known. He was betrayed and put to death. What is clear, though, that no one since then was able to repeat and successfully complete the process of illumination which is still buried in the ancient Hebrew letters, now spoken by the Israelis.

Many questions come up with this story. Where did the Egyptians get the knowledge of initiation in the first place? And in what form did it come? Who built the pyramids and taught them to use this knowledge as a tool for illumination?

Fast forward to our times. It is the late twentieth century; the Egyptian civilization is long gone, buried under sand and desert rock. The pyramids, standing in the desert heat for thousands of years, are mistaken to be nothing but wondrous structures and burial grounds. In reality, they are instruments of power which are out of tune. The knowledge of initiation was long gone, with traces of it surfacing in various occult, mystical and alchemist teaching. The Hebrew knowledge has been butchered, eroded and buried under a long list of rules one must and mustn’t do, made up by those who misunderstood the ancient tradition.

When Don, Carla and Jim channeled Ra for the first time in 1981, one of the first questions they asked it was if it had any relationship to the ancient god of Egypt also known as Ra. And Ra’s response was unequivocal, yes, it was the same entity. Ra, claiming to be a collective memory complex, that is a collective consciousness of ancient people from another planet in our solar system, now existing in a different dimension of time and space, has come to Egypt about 6,000 years ago and then again about 4,500 years ago to deliver the knowledge of initiation and build the pyramids.

That knowledge was known as the Law of One and can be summed up as follows: In reality there is only one entity, one being which is the Creator of the Universe, thinking Itself into existence through the distributed and seemingly co-existing levels of consciousness which we are individually experiencing as our illusory life. We are nothing but the dancing thoughts of the Creator Itself.

Over the next three years Don, Jim and Carla asked Ra thousands of questions, all documented word-by-word in a series of books called The Law of OneThe Ra Material. In them, Ra shared some of the cosmic story of our people, the concept behind the process of illumination, how our energetic bodies are built, the connections between those spiritual principles and modern physics, the concepts behind sexual polarization and the basic framework behind the wisdom of the archetypes, which is the work of the adept seeker.

Under that umbrella you can find the Tarot and the twenty-two Major Arcana cards or drawings, which correspond to the twenty-two Hebrew letters. The Tree of Life and the twenty-two connections is one of the ways in which Ra suggests that the archetypes can be studied.

The Ra material is fascinating in its complexity, accuracy and potency. The seeker who studies it with an open mind will find it to be a vital connecting tissue between all spiritual systems, religions and other bodies of esoteric knowledge. It is truly a work of love gifted to humanity by three explorers of truth who dared to do what many have attempted and failed.

Personally it serves as a major role in my own spiritual opening. The Ra material is heavily intellectual and as such it was very digestible to me, who was an atheist at the time, did not believe in anything that did not make complete logical sense. In other words, you might say that the Ra material has logically led me to my spiritual awakening and as such it holds a dear place in my heart.

And so I’m excited today in which we’re joined by Jim McCarthy who is currently heading L/L Research. Jim was born in 1947 in Nebraska. After receiving an undergraduate degree from the University of Nebraska and a Master’s of Science in Early Childhood Education from the University of Florida, Jim moved to a piece of wilderness in Kentucky in which he worked to develop a self-sufficient lifestyle. For the next six years he was in almost complete retreat.

His mission was to study human consciousness, intellectually and in practice. For this purpose he founded the Rock Creek Research and Development Laboratories, and in 1980 he joined his research with Don’s and Carla’s. Jim and Carla got married in 1987, three years following Don’s untimely death and the end of the Ra channeling. Together they have continued the work, expanding and developing L/L Research, making the Ra material available to thousands of seekers worldwide.

They continued their channeling efforts and have been successfully channeling an entity called “Q’uo” for many years. Carla has passed through to the next phase of her journey in 2014, but Jim McCarthy still channels Q’uo on a regular basis and making the transcripts available to all those who wish to read them.

Jim, I want to offer you a warm welcome to the Kabbalistic Mystic. First, my condolences on behalf of all the listeners for the loss of your wife and your long-time work partner, Carla. She’ll be missed by all of us.

Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your kindness and your thoughtfulness.

So, Jim, first, for those of us who are new to the concept of channeling, can you explain a little bit what channeling is and how, in your opinion, if at all the Ra material is different than other channelings available out there?

Well, I think that channeling is a phenomenon that is very popular these days, but it has always been around. If you look in the Old Testament of the Bible you see the various prophets from throughout the ages have been able to make contact with what they felt was the Creator, with God and they made these prophecies in hopes of being able to spread the word that the God or the Creator was wanting to share with His people. So, we’ve had this concept around for quite a while. I guess the most modern, well-known channel would be Edgar Cayce, who was active in the thirties and forties, here in Kentucky, as a matter of fact and he did a lot of readings that were of a medical nature. He was able to diagnose and prescribe for people’s various ailments, remedies that actually seemed to work, in fact, some of the Cayce remedies are still used today throughout the world by various places that are still in association with the Association for Research and Enlightenment in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

He never took money for it either, huh?

No, no, I think if people contributed he was glad to receive it, but as most people who are really wishing to be of service to others, they don’t depend upon this type of a service for an income. They depend upon being able to be of service and then if people are helped, then they will help them. So everybody gets helped by the same situation.

But as far as the Ra contact, the Ra contact is pretty much unique as far as I can tell. Most of the time when you have a channeling situation you have a person who is very spiritually or religiously oriented and who has purified him or herself through a system of maybe meditation, prayer, of contemplation, reading inspiration messages to kind of tune themselves, get themselves in a receptive mode that will allow information of a similar nature, of a positive love-oriented nature to come through and it’s usually from another entity.

Sometimes there are inner masters—entities that have lived on this earth and were teachers and had followings on the earth and then when they made a transition out of this world, you know, they died from this world, their spirit went on to the spirit worlds and they also continued working from there. So a lot of channeling has come from inner masters. Everybody supposedly has a spirit guide or one or even two or three that are available and sometimes it comes from them.

Since about the early sixties or even late fifties there has been supposed contacts from extraterrestrials, entities from other planets or solar systems that are here to look at what’s happening on earth. We are apparently moving through a time of transition here that will, you know, in the Bible it’s spoken of as perhaps the Rapture or the heaven on earth or whatever you want to call it. There’s lots of different names for it, especially in the New Age movement these days, but there is a time of transition and we seem to be moving into a new age, the Age of Aquarius. Back when I was in college in the early 70’s, the song then, “The Age of Aquarius” was a symbol of what was happening and what was going to happen.

So, there have been entities from other galaxies, other planets here to help with the transition because it apparently is something that can be assisted, that there are entities that aid those from earth who are going through the transition and who make it into the supposed heaven worlds or the fourth density as we call it.

But the Ra contact was from a group of entities. Ra is a social memory complex which means that—if you’re familiar with Carl Jung, he had the idea of the collective unconscious that basically we all share this great mass, this vast library of information in our subconscious minds, if you go deeply enough that you could possibly access that. Well, a social memory complex actually has done that. There is a group of entities that decided to seek what they call truth or love or the Creator as a group. They are unified in their seeking and apparently there are about 6.5 million entities that make up the Ra social memory complex and they were apparently from the planet in our solar system that we know of as Venus and they’re a great deal many years ahead of us in our evolution.

So they’re also here to help with this process and what happened in the Ra contact was that one day Carla was teaching another student how to channel and an entity saying that it was Ra came through her. And she was a Christian her whole life long. Jesus was her Lord and Savior quite actually. So every time an entity wished to channel through her, she would say, “You must be able to say that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior before I will let you speak.” And so she challenged three times and Ra said, “Yes, indeed, you know, you’re not the only ones that have Jesus. Jesus is, you know, much more well-known than just on your planet. So, yes, indeed, we come in the name of Jesus Christ.”

So at that point and throughout the next hundred and five sessions we had with Ra, somehow she left her body. We never knew how she did it, but neither Ra nor she was in her body. Ra was apparently, what we would say, at a distance on the inner planes of the earth, using her body as an instrument like a telephone and being able to make words through using her body and the other thing that was unique about the contact was that there was a very slow, rhythmic pace as if they were releasing just a certain amount of energy each time in little pulses. Every syllable of every word was completely perfectly enunciated and it always amazed me that Don was able to listen to that lack of intonation and that slow rhythmic pace, understand what was being said and then formulate another intelligent question. So, the Ra contact, as far as I know, is pretty unique in that regard.

Fascinating. You actually answered some of my other questions because I listened to some of the audio that you guys have released of Carla channeling and it sounded like it was still her voice. It’s not like it was somebody else’s voice. So it was literally, it was literally just using her as this instrument and sort of like her vocal cords, you know, to release this, this energy as what it called a sound complex, but fascinating, fascinating.

So, you spoke about Jesus and obviously this is a podcast called Kabbalistic Mystics, so some of my listeners are of the Jewish faith and some are atheist and so on and so forth and I want to talk about this point a little bit. So, the Ra material, obviously because Carla was a Christian and you know, she used Jesus as, you know, sort of the greeting, the filter, the gate, in order to make sure the entity has positive intentions. What would you say to those who are listening who are not only not Christian, don’t necessarily believe in Jesus Christ, but even maybe have some kind of, you know, residue of sort of rejection to that concept. Can you talk a little bit about Jesus in the concept, in the concept of the ideas that Ra introduces and, you know, do you have to be a Christian and believe in Jesus Christ to really enjoy and understand the Law of One?

Oh, no, not at all. It just so happened that, well, two things really allowed Ra to speak through our group and neither one really concerned Christianity. Christianity’s effect on Carla was what was important. The one thing that supported the contact more than anything else was the harmony we had between the three of us. We needed to have a stable environment that those of Ra could depend upon and utilize in order to make the contact and the second thing was the purity of Carla’s seeking. Now it just so happened that she was a Christian because of her earlier experiences with Jesus now when she was two years old. But if say a group, it could be a group of atheists or more likely a group of entities would be of some religion or another. It wouldn’t matter what religion, what would matter, as Ra said, is that every religion has a pure path to the One Creator and if you’re not of a particular religion that you yourself can create your own path if you wish to. But what it takes is the purity of desire, the will, to be focused in a one-pointed fashion so that you’re attempting to see into a higher realm of truth.

What we have here on the earth has a certain level of resonance to people. We can grow a certain amount here with what we have, but we need to be able to reach higher and to realize more of our potential and any religion, it wouldn’t matter what religion it was, as long as there was a harmony in the group, that the instrument, the one serving as instrument, was pure in his or her seeking, that would be all that would be necessary.

For Carla, Jesus was very important because when she was two years old she would go to a magic kingdom. She had to wear glasses when she was two years old because her eyes were not very good and she put the glasses in the venetian blinds next to her crib one day before she laid down to take her nap. Her mother put her down, she was two years old and she noted that a ray of light came through the lens of the glass as it was separating two of the venetian blinds and she was able to use that ray of light to basically have an experience of what she called “a magical kingdom.” She would slide out of her body and go to this magical kingdom where the flowers would twine around her arms, the animals would talk to her, but in the middle of the magic kingdom she would see Jesus.

Jesus looked like he’d been out on the road for a long time. He was dark and dusty and his hair was matted, his robe was dusty and he never said a word to her, but he would hold her hand and look into her eyes and at that time she would know what unconditional love was. So, I think the unconditional love is the quality that is very important and all religions have that at the heart of the religion. Any of the prophets or the entities that are significant in a primary importance in any religion have that love as a quality. So, it isn’t necessary at all that a person be a Christian or even particularly religious, it’s just that you need to be seeking that love; that quality of unconditional love which you wish to share with others and you wish to feel it yourself as well.

Thank you, thank you for that. So, you know, before we dive into some of the material, just to take it in a slightly different direction so as to get something out of the way. What would you say to those who might be listening to this podcast and saying, “What are you guys smoking? Like, really, a social memory complex of the people of Venus?” I mean this is just way out there and I know you guys have been in the experience. You have this direct, you know… unless we experience something, it is very hard to believe. What would you say to somebody like that? And you, you’ve been doing this all your life. I’m sure you’ve met tons of skeptics.

Oh, sure. Well, you know, we’re not really proselytizing. If you don’t think that what we have to say is of any value, please drop it and leave. Don’t worry about it because whatever you need in your path is going to come your way. That just seems to be the way things work. But for us, this has been most important. It has helped us a great deal in our own spiritual journey. It’s helped us because it’s service to people. It’s helped us to unlock our hearts so we can feel love for the creation around us. That has been tremendously helpful, but if another person doesn’t feel that it’s helpful to them, then just, you know, go ahead and find the way that’s helpful to you because if you seek it, you will find it. It’s just seems to be the way it works. So you don’t have to worry about if somebody says, “Well, I’ve got the greatest thing in the world.” And you see other people are using it and having success, but it just doesn’t ring true to you, don’t worry about it, you know. Find your own way because there is a way for you.

Yeah and beyond that, it seems that the way Ra explained, and especially in Book I and a little bit of Book II, there’s sort of like a mechanism to the afterlife. I believe in one of the answers, he says, you know, the assumption that things are complex in your world, but they are not complex and, you know, sort of structured in the world beyond is a false one. There is a mechanism and it’s quite complex, so there is, there is something beyond what we see that sort of, you know, if you’re persistent and study the Ra material consistently, you’re kind of getting a logical picture at some point and I am sticking to logic just because for me the Ra material was so logical, weirdly enough. Yeah.

Well, yeah. The process of evolution that we all grow is what basically Ra is talking about—how to aid that growth. Each of us has tremendous abilities that some have been recognized and realized and potentiated, but others haven’t. And when it comes to the level of the spirit, it goes beyond the mind and it seems to connect us to all of the creation, that this creation seems to be a whole bunch of single entities and things and forces and planets and animals and what everywhere. It’s hard to imagine how it can be part of one being, of how the One Creator could have made all of this out of Itself and set it in motion and how that we can all make our way back to the Creator by learning about ourselves and as we learn about ourselves we also learn about the Creator. The same thing we learn more about the Creator, we learn more about ourselves. This whole, whole creation that we are in is a unified creation and that we are here on this planet at this time, learning certain lessons that allow us to continue beyond and be able to see more clearly. We don’t see so clearly here and there’s a reason for that, you know. There’s a veil of forgetting we go through so the lessons can carry more weight in our total beingness and give us a chance to choose how we want to go on because there’s a number of ways of doing that.

Yeah, thank you. So, let’s talk a little bit about the actual content in the Ra material. What would you say, is there a way to summarize Ra’s message if, you know, if you had just a couple of minutes to say, “Okay, when it’s all said and done, what does Ra want to tell us?”

Well, basically that we are in a unified creation and that we are here to learn certain lessons and once those lessons are learned, then we can partake more fully in the creation. We’re kind of at, well… apparently there are eight densities of light. We’re in the third one and we’re kind of like in the third grade and as school kids here we’ve got some basic lessons to learn about how we want to proceed, how we want to structure our thought, what we really believe and we do this totally out of free will. That’s the most important thing that our free will has to be the factor that makes all of these decisions. None of the contacts like Ra try to force us to believe anything. They just give us information and then let us choose, figure out if that’s what we can use in our own system of seeking of being and evolving or not. So, the creation being one thing, we can move through the various densities and right here in this particular density, we’re trying to figure out how we want to do it. Do we want to be a positively-oriented, do we want to be of service to others and try to help all others, see others as ourselves and see others as the Creator? Or do we want to be more selfish; do we want to be only service to self?

These are the qualities of what are usually called good and evil and for a period of time both of these qualities are means by which entities can move past third density and continue in their evolution of seeking the Creator. At some point, the negative polarity, the service to self, has to be abandoned because it doesn’t work past a certain point where you have to see everybody as the same as yourself and as the Creator. There’s only a certain amount of time where the negative polarity works. But that’s apparently what we’re here for, is to decide to make this choice and the choice is really pretty simple. I mean, Ra said that we only have to be 51% polarized towards serving others in order to graduate from this third density. That means that 51% of the time of what we think, of what we say and what we do has to be in service to others. That’s only 51%; that’s not too hard.

The negative polarity has to be 95% pure in service to self, so it’s a little harder to travel that path and not so many people travel it. So, once we do make that choice to be a positive or negative then we can be graduated and go on to the fourth density where things aren’t so hidden from us. We don’t have a veil of forgetting there. We can partake more fully in the true nature of the reality around us. We, however, learn a great deal more here in this third density because we have that veil of forgetting, because we’re not absolutely certain that all is one and that the creative force in the universe is love and that everything is made out of light. You know, we don’t know that here, but when we go past this density, then we will know that.

Okay. So, it sounds like you’re saying that, you know, that the essence of Ra’s message is that we all have a choice of sort and it has to do with our polarity, whether we want to be service to others or service to self. Now, this understanding, obviously, has to have very experiential, meaningful, tangible results in day-to-day lives and so, so, let’s say somebody says, “Okay, I’m gonna, you know, I’m interested. I’m going to read the Ra material. I’m going to investigate a little bit more because I want to understand what that means, right?” The Ra material is fairly vast. Could you maybe, if somebody is new to the Ra material, can you give a tip on how to go about it? Should they start reading from the beginning or maybe can you give a brief introduction to the specific content in each one of the books; there’s four different books, five really, and basically guide the newbie to the Ra material?

Well, in the first book, it’s actually called The Ra Material. Our publisher changed the name from The Law of One, Book I to The Ra Material because back at that time in the early 80’s the Seth material was important and well-known, so they were trying to ride their coat tails, but so, we have to deal with the fact they changed the name. But in the Ra material we attempted to write an introduction that would introduce people to the basic concepts of spiritual evolution and of the unity of all of creation and of channeling because Don and Carla had been working in those areas for about twenty years before the Ra contact started. So before we had the Ra contact, we suggested people read The Secrets of the UFO, which was a book that Don and Carla wrote in 1977 to summarize Don’s twenty-five years up to that point, investigating UFO’s because the investigation turned out to be totally spiritually-oriented, that the UFO’s were just a tip of the iceberg and that the reason they were here was because we were all evolving on planet Earth into this new level of understanding. I would think that the introduction that is there in The Ra Material is a pretty good instruction, but if you want to get more background, then Secrets of the UFO is quite good as well and I’ll give you the websites you can go to. All of this is available for free on the website, you can download it and if you want a book, then we can sell those to you, but I would suggest reading either Secrets of the UFO or just read the introduction to The Ra Material. And it is information that is well to read slowly because there’s a lot there. It’s rich with concepts and nuances and directions to think.

And the first book is really a lot of Don’s attempts to put together the rest of the puzzle pieces that he’d been working on for twenty-five years before the Ra contact, as to the nature of reality and what UFOs were here for and so there’s a lot of different kinds of information covered there, but the basic information is concerning the Law of One and how Ra did visit the Egyptians about 11,000 years ago in order to help teach the Law of One in person. There apparently at that time there was a consensus within their society that they would like to have this type of a teaching of the Law of One and that allowed those of Ra to actually come and walk among them in person. That’s a very rare situation. It couldn’t happen today because there could be no consensus on planet Earth that people even wanted to believe such entities existed, let alone have them come here and teach us anything.

So, they visited the Egyptians, we got some information on the history of the earth and different civilizations that came before the civilization that we have now, the Greek civilization. A lot of people think that Atlantis is mythology, but apparently it actually existed as well and older civilizations than that. Lemuria was much further back than Atlantis.

So we got some history of the planet, we got some history of the solar system, about how the warfare that we have here on earth, it’s been something that has occurred in the rest of the system, the solar system we’re in here, on Mars and another planet that no longer exists because of warfare. So, there was information there; information about, just in general, the energy centers or people might call them chakras in the human body of how they move up from the red, yellow, orange, green, blue, indigo and violet to the crown of the head and how each energy center receives the infinite energy of the Creator and allows a higher and higher expression of that energy. So that as we move up the energy centers then we move from concerns of the individual to concerns of the group, then in the heart there’s concerns of all entities around us, being able to give unconditional love and in the throat to be able to speak with wisdom and be able to communicate clearly and so forth.

So that the energy that comes to us every day, it’s kind of like a spiritual battery recharging we get every day and the reason the people in past, for example, who worshipped the sun, was apparently the sun does give us this energy. It’s not just sunlight, not just something that might tan our skin, but is actually is an intelligent energy that moves through our body that gives us the ability to learn these lessons that expand as you go up the energy centers and as that energy goes up the energy centers. So there’s a lot of information there, the various densities of light that we exist in, like I said, we’re in the third one here. We talk about with Ra what those densities are composed of, which is basically light, more and more dense light; that’s why the densities are called densities because they’re more and more dense, they’re packed with light or information and ability to learn, ability to evolve and grow and be of service to others. So, there is a great deal of information there.

And in the second book, there’s a lot of information on exactly how the creation was created. Why the Creator made the creation and how it functions—you know, what are these stars in the sky? Those apparently are intelligent beings as that have helped make the creation so that we are partaking in this creation. Logos is the word Ra used to described the stars and Logos, if you’re familiar with the term, means Love or prime mover and each of the stars is apparently a Logos entity that helps with the refinement of the creation, to help add a certain nuance to it that makes the creation more fruitful, more vivid, more available and usable and more that we can experience in it.

And in the third book of The Law of One, we went into a lot more detail in all these areas that were in the first two books and they, those areas we were talking more about how light is full of energy and how can use the light in our own meditations and spiritual growth to—well, basically heal. When you are enlightened or try to enlighten yourself, you’re trying to bring more light on a subject, you’re trying to discover more about how you evolved, about who you are—the basic philosophical questions of who am I and what is life and where am I going in this life. Those are all the things we try to deal with in Book III.

Book IV is sort of new information actually. If anyone is familiar with the Tarot and the twenty-two major arcana of the Tarot, we investigated a good deal in Book IV about what Ra called the archetypical mind and I was talking about these Logos entities. Apparently, each of these entities has various facets or features that might be called archetypes that can give us greater depth and breadth of understanding of ourselves, of the creation and how we move through the creation on our spiritual journeys. And these archetypes, some are well-known. I mean the Magician is the conscious mind and the Potentiator is the subconscious mind, those first two archetypes and they work back and forth with us throughout our lives. And we have access to the rest of the planetary mind and the archetypical mind by going through the subconscious mind down deeper and discovering that there is a great wealth of information there waiting for us if we really do seek it and want to discover and use it and be of service to others with it.

So, the archetypical mind is the information that has been—actually it’s been pretty, pretty chewy information. You have to think quite a bit about what’s being said there because each of those little features on the Tarot card have a meaning that relates to your consciousness and how you use your consciousness and how you grow.

And Book V was basically the information that we—we asked Ra personal questions now and then about our own spiritual journeys. We didn’t publish that personal information to start with because we didn’t want people to focus on our personalities, we didn’t want that to get in the way of the information Ra had to share, but after about fifteen years of not having it published, I was looking at it one day and talking to Carla about it, saying, “You know, Ra gave us really good general principles that are good for anybody to use when they were talking about what we asked as questions. So maybe we could take these fragments that we took out of each little session and publish them in one book and maybe we could make comments to let people know why we asked the question and what it had to do with our growth and so people could see that we’re just like they are. You know, we face the same sorts of confusions or doubts or experiences that everybody else did.” So that we decided well, it would be good to publish that, too. So we finally did in Book V.

Yeah, and I thank you for that. You know I can reflect back with an example how some of the personal material was helpful for me. It’s actually not from Book V, but I remember at some point, Ra advised Carla for one of her physical conditions to eat some of the meat stuff and I remember I was at a time in my life where I was feeling somewhat bad about eating meat, but I also felt that without eating meat I would not be healthy and that was sort of a validation to me that there could be a time in somebody’s life and everybody’s different and blood types and all that good stuff, that eating meat is okay. I mean you want to be conscious about where the meat’s coming from and so on and so forth, but it was just like this personal information that worked for me. So, there’s, I found a lot of value in Book V in the personal material because, as you said, there was a lot of parallels to, you know, to somebody’s life. It’s just, it makes it a lot more tangible, shall we say.

Right, right.

Yeah, so thank you for doing that. And so you spoke about the archetypes and you know, those of you, the listeners, who have been listening diligently to Kabbalistic Mystic, we spoke about the Hebrew letters, the twenty-two Hebrew letters corresponding to the twenty-two major Arcana and that the first, actually from the second to the eighth letters, there’s the structure of human consciousness and the Magician was there and so on and so forth. So, this is where things tie and I want to ask—Book IV is where the Tree of Life is being mentioned in the Ra material and Ra mentions it as one of the ways for the adept to study the archetypes and they also mention that at some point, one must get to that, to that particular point in the journey; if you are an adept you are going to have to learn the archetypes.

Can you maybe comment—and I don’t know if this is maybe something you want to comment on or can comment on—how does one know that one is an adept seeker? How does one know that it’s time to study the archetypes? I know that the archetype material is somewhat complex and even in Book IV, Ra was somewhat refusing to divulge information without you guys and specifically Don, going and studying it first and then coming back with sort of like more educated questions, right?

Right. They suggested that either the Tree of Life or you know, white ceremonial magic, the astrology or Tarot would be means by which we could study the archetypical mind. I think in general that a person could be considered studying to be an adept if they have been successful in opening their heart in unconditional love because that’s the quality that we need to master and demonstrate in order to be able to graduate from this third density here. We need to be able to open our hearts and feel compassion for those about us, so that that is the basic quality that we seek and which we share with those around us. So that’s the heart area. If you can move up into the throat area, into the clear communication and inspiration, then you’re preparing yourself to be what Ra calls the adept and that is usually study that’s reserved for the indigo ray, the brow chakra, that area where the, I believe, the Hindus say there’s a thousand petal lotus when you’re able to make contact with the Creator that resides within us there.

And that type of a study is something that a lot of people attempt to undertake before they’ve really gotten their heart and their lower chakras solidly in place. You need to be able to be sure that your house is on a firm foundation. If you try to move to that area too quickly sometimes there can be an imbalance in your energies and actual physical diseases can result, but if you feel like you’ve moved through the concerns of the lower chakras, the individual self and in relation to other individuals and then individual related to groups and you’ve been able to get into your heart and feel that there’s a real compassion there that you can feel it. It’s something that you really feel inspired by and you want to share it with other people. And then you begin sharing it in the blue ray, the wisdom area of the throat.

Then the work within the chakra, the brow, then seems to become the natural thing to do and that is usually pursued in either—people might pursue it in the realm of healing, wanting to bring that infinite energy and infinite intelligence through in healing or in inspirational speaking or talking, teaching or in being able to, I guess you’d say, influence the consciousness around you by an act of your will, just by the will of wanting to be of service, or wanting to share and to know that you actually become a beacon of light in that it’s just more or less your presence that is of a, you would say, a magical nature. I use the word “magic” in the terms of the classical white magician, the conscious ability to create changes in consciousness, that you seek union with the Creator in order to be of service to others. All of the white magic rituals have that as their purpose. They seek the union in order to share with others. You’re not seeking just for yourself. You’re seeking basically to be of service to all other entities around you.

Thank you. So, I want to take a step back from that and talk about a concept that you guys dove into pretty seriously in the, let’s see, second and third book, and that’s the concept of sexual polarization. Can you introduce that topic and sort of talk about how and why is it so important in our psycho-spiritual development?

Well, we discovered in the Ra contact that if Carla and I had what we called a sexual energy exchange the night before that the session was much longer the next day, that the energy of that sexual energy exchange was something that powered the Ra contact. Now apparently when two entities, it wouldn’t have to be male and female, just as long as they’re male and female polarized, have a potential difference between them of male to female quality that there is an energy that they can exchange. The female exchanges the mental, emotional and spiritual energy which she has in abundance and the male exchanges the physical energy which he has in abundance and usually each of them is needing what the other has to transfer. The male is not usually as strong in the mental, emotional and spiritual sense as is the female. The female is not usually as strong in the physical sense as is the male. Not usually, sometimes they are, but in general that’s the case and when you have the sexual energy exchange then each is able to share with the other what the other needs and each one is enspirited and enlivened and feels a greater vitality.

The energy exchange happens at green ray or above. You have to be able to be able to share in all compassionate love with the other person and we discovered also that if you dedicate the love-making or sexual sharing to the Creator, for the service of the Creator, that also there is more energy, it actually doubles apparently the amount of energy you have to share. So, it’s a very healthy part of the natural development of not only the body, but the mind and the spirit. And this is something that those who’ve been mated for a long time with the same person can probably testify to, that when you are with the same person for a long time that this becomes almost an art form and it becomes a way of—it’s a dance. Carla always called it dancing in the fields of the Lord. That it was just so energizing and inspiring that it can become quite amazing. I mean the various energy centers that are activated as you share the energy of the sexual energy exchange come alive and begin to provide amazing experiences.

Somewhat corresponding to tantric sex, right?


Yeah. What about the concept of Wanderers? That’s a pretty big topic. I know it was the first topic that got me introduced to the Law of One. Can you introduce that and talk a little bit about who they are and or who we are?

Yeah, that is an interesting concept, but a lot of people have had, you know… in the third density here, they’ve had this feeling that they’re not really from here. They feel like they’re away from home. Well, apparently in order to help out planet Earth or any third density planet which is going through what earth is going through now, a transition into the fourth density, the density of love and understanding, that if there’s been some difficulty on the planet in getting that understanding going, which there has been on earth—we’ve had trouble loving each other, admit it, you know. The entities from higher densities choose to forget for a while that they are from that higher density and they come back to earth and they go through the forgetting with the purpose of aiding earth in its evolution, of attempting in some fashion to be of service to others.

Ra said that there, back in 1981, there are approximately 65 million people on this planet that were either from the fourth, the fifth or the sixth density. They’d come here and hazarded the forgetting process in order to be of service and just their very presence on the planet helped to lighten the vibrations. And then they could also help the planet by providing specific services or talents. Each one would bring with them something in the way maybe of teaching, of healing, of being an artist, of being a poet, of being a writer, maybe being a community worker, an organizer. There’s all kinds of things that could be done to be of service to others that these Wanderer entities might be good at. They might have had these abilities enhanced in their other lives on their home planet.

And again, this is tied in to the extraterrestrial philosophy of why they’re here because these entities that we have heard about that are contacting entities on earth and channeling are basically the same as a Wanderer who has not come to earth to forget, but they’re still a higher density being that is here to help us out, but a lot of them do come here as Wanderers. They do go through the same forgetting process all of us do and they’re hopefully being able to serve the planet by their very presence and by the talents they bring with them.

So it sounds like basically you’re saying that while they could be a collective consciousness of a particular group, they could also be one leaf of that consciousness that is reincarnating as an actual human in this particular density and this particular reality.

Right. That seems to be the way it works throughout the creation, that when there is a need on a planet like there is on earth, that entities from the higher densities offer themselves in service in a variety of ways. Maybe they stay aloof in a somewhat mysterious and channel through other entities or maybe they come here in physical bodies, but they go through the same forgetting so that while they’re here it takes them a while to remember and they’re not, not all of them remember. Most of them do remember some degree of why they’re here and that they want to serve.

Jim, the books, the Ra material, you guys, you know, put a lot of your personal lives sort of exposed for people to benefit from the material as much as possible and the books are really not just the accurate script of the channeling, but there’s also a story of three people who really tapped into a new frontier here, a love story, a story of a man who through the process of seeking the truth, falling into—and this is me, that’s my interpretation—fell into a pattern of somewhat paranoia and confusion and, of course, I’m talking about Don. How would you summarize what took place with Don that caused the ceasing the contact with Ra and do you relate what happened with Don with his attempt to experientially embody the teachings of Ra and resulting with somewhat imbalances and how can people avoid, avoid falling into that same pattern?

Well, one of the principles that we discovered while we were using the channeling process and being in the Ra contact was that any group that is of a spiritual nature that is attempting to be of service to others is producing light. This light is a power, it is something that attracts attention. It attracts attention of the loyal opposition. The negatively-oriented entities in higher densities see that light, much as a moth sees the flame and then goes toward the flame. These entities come toward that light with the attempt to try to control that light because the nature of negative polarity is to attempt to control and dominate those around you and use the energies that they take from those around them for themselves.

So negative entities attempt to take that energy for themselves and they usually begin by offering temptations to one who is channeling to move them away from the pure spiritual information that they’re giving to transient information, information that is of no value; doom and gloom prophecy to information that will aggrandize the instrument or the group politically or financially or socially so that basically what they try to do is to turn the radio dial so that your dial is not on the same station that you were on.

So they offer these temptations and if you’re able to refuse the temptations, to stay purely focused on the spiritual information that you really want to share with others, then they think in terms of removing the light. If they can’t control it, they try to put it out. So, there are various ways of doing that. Each of us and every person on the planet has strengths and has weaknesses and if you don’t balance all of what comes your way, the way the catalyst from these temptations—we call them psychic greetings, most people call them psychic attacks. We tried to call them greetings in order to see these negative entities are also the Creator. They’re also our other selves, as everyone else is our other self. So we try to downplay the nature of the attack and call it a greeting. But if you’re not able to deal with that greeting successfully, then it can be used.

Any movement away from total harmony within your group, if you move away from what you’re capable of giving in love and light to others, then that free will choice you have made can be intensified or magnified by the negative entities. So, basically, this is what was offered to each of us and Don was having problems with his basic nature. When he was twenty-six years old he saw this world around him, he thought it was pretty insane, that basically the people were making choices very poorly, they were being carried away by their emotions, even too joyful, too sad. They were going up and down. So he made a decision he was going to be absolutely dispassionate; he was not going to be moved one way or another. So basically he shut his heart off there, but it allowed him to get to a certain point in his evolution, you know, mentally that he was able to ask the most amazing questions in the Ra contact.

Absolutely. Yeah.

But, with this particular distortion he had, it was able to be worked upon by the negative entities to cause his natural ability to be careful. Like he was a pilot for Eastern Air Lines for many years and as a pilot he would carefully inspect each plane that he was going to be flying with the passengers on it and he’d take a walk around the outside and he looked to be sure everything was okay.

Well, this basic care turned into a paranoia and it was enhanced by the negative entities to the point that eventually Don became dysfunctional and the Ra contact ended with his life. And it was a very sad and stressful time because he was trying his best to help Carla. She was also having difficulties toward the end of the contact. Her weakness was not mentally in the choices that she’d made like they were for Don in the choices he’s made years ago. Her pre-incarnative choices were to have a weaker body, weakened by arthritis so that it would continue to focus her on the inward things, the inward journey of the channeling, the praying, the contemplation and so forth, not be out doing everything in the world like Tigger, you know, from Winnie the Pooh.


She would dissipate her energy if she didn’t have those physical limitations, but those physical limitations also were enhanced by our friend in negative polarity and she was having a hard time being able to viable as an instrument. There was one thing and another being caused to go wrong with her body. So it became very difficult at the end and Don, I think, saw that Carla was probably going to be the one, she looked like the weak link, the one that would suffer the most and probably be the first one to leave the incarnation and I’ve always felt that Don had a sense of wanting to take that off of her. But I could never prove that or anything. I think that he was willing to go first so that she wouldn’t and she did live another thirty-two years after he passed on.

Right, right. Wow, yeah, very dramatic, very intense and you can sort of feel that in the fourth book how things become darker and darker. There’s sort of like this energetic vibe as you read further and further and yeah. So those listeners who are interested to understand what happened and read more about it will have to dive into that.

I want to step away from the Ra material. We’re kind of getting close to the end of our conversation. You guys at L/L Research still channel and at this point you channel an entity named “Q’uo”, if I’m pronouncing the name right.

Yes, that’s right.

And Q’uo is very different than Ra. Ra was very succinct, very cryptic, yet poignant and sharp, sort of like… I like to say the Ra material to me is like an essential oil. In every word there’s so much behind it. Q’uo is, I would say, looser, somewhat long-winded, I mean uses words like iPhone, right? Where Ra insisted, you know every time he/it/they said a name, it’s a sound vibratory complex, right, and the entire language was different. What determines the way a contact speaks and how do you channel Q’uo now days? Is it through trance or is it while being conscious?

It’s conscious channeling and Q’uo is actually a very interesting channel because Q’uo is a composite; it’s a principle of three different entities and one of them is Ra. Because we did not have Don to be part of the contact any more we knew that we could not have the Ra contact and we were kind of like three strings on a musical instrument. When you strummed us we produced a note that Ra could blend with, but then a couple of years after Don passed we received this contact from Q’uo and we finally figured out we needed to ask Q’uo who they were because in Latin, Q’uo is who, what or where. So, they were giving us by their name, they were giving us a hint that maybe we should ask who they were.


So we did and apparently they are one of the first contacts we ever had back in the 60’s was from a planetary consciousness named Hatonnand they were of the fourth density, the density of love and then, before the Ra contact, the contact we had the most was a fifth density entity by the name of Latwii and there again is another planetary entity. So Hatonn, Latwii and Ra stepped down to the fifth density, make up the principle of Q’uo, so we channeled them in a conscious fashion. Carla taught me and another fellow, a fellow who lives about four hours from here and some of you will know him, to channel about twenty-five years ago. So, he drives here every other week and we have channelings twice a month from September through May. We take the summers off and then on the Saturdays we that we don’t have channeling, we have silent meditation.

And so what determines, I guess, is the way a contact speaks set by the type of energy that they sort of, just like you said, like a musical instrument, every musical instrument kind of creates a different vibratory, except it’s a flute, I guess, that’s the only instrument that doesn’t vibrate, right? But I guess what I’m asking is have you guys ever tried to ask Q’uo if he can, it can answer questions in a more succinct manner? Not that the way it answered is not good, but sometimes it’s like, wow, one question and the entire session’s gone, right?

Yeah, that’s true. It worked that way when Carla was channeling Q’uo and it seems to be working that way when Steve and I both channel them. I think that it does have something to do with the type of entity that is channeling, but it also has something to do with the one who is serving as a channel, too. Because back in the early days when Don was a channel, he channeled very succinctly, very short sentences, a lot of sentences and it was very clear. When Carla began to channel, she would channel the same entity, but she was more poetic and more, I guess you could say, long-winded, I guess would be sort of a way of looking at is.

Yeah, yeah, you’re right.

But she would have more clauses, more phrases to share and done in a more poetic fashion, so I think it’s a combination of both the type of entity that you’re channeling and you as a channel and I would agree with you that we need to try to get a little more succinct quality into the Q’uo channeling because the sentences do go on.

Yeah, yeah. Fascinating. Why don’t we give our listeners some sources, if somebody wants to read the Ra material. You guys make everything available free and thank you for that. That helped me tremendously throughout the years. If somebody wants to listen or read the Q’uo channeling that you guys do on a regular basis, maybe you can give an overview of the resources that L/L Research is giving to its followers.

Okay, well, our archive website has got all of our books, including Q’uo and Ra and, like I say, they’re there for free for downloading. That’s www.llresearch.org. And for those who really want to maybe study a little more about the Law of One and want to be able to do some searches, lawofone.info is a searchable site that’s got all the information in the Ra contact available for being able to search it out by topics, you know, any research or anything like that. And then we have a social website that has a blog on it that I write every day to let people know. I quote one of the Ra questions and I make comments on it. We have one of the channelings from the Holy Spirit that Carla did to end it. We talk a little bit about what we do in the office and I talk a little about my gardening outside. That’s www.bring4th.org. So those three sites all have free information on them and if anybody is really interested in getting books, of course, you can order those through this online store that’s on the Bring4th.org site.

And I’m going to include some of these, all of these links, actually, on the show notes. So, no need to worry if you happen to be driving. Great. So, one last question I have for you. You are a lifetime seeker before you joined Carla and Don. You had your own organization, nonprofit organization dedicated to the expansion of human consciousness; Rock Creek, I believe, right?

Yes, that’s right.

Yeah and I mean you were a seeker before I was born. So, what advice can you give the modern seeker of truth who is listening to this podcast? I guess I’m looking for more the, you know, the, the wisdom advice from somebody who has been on the path for such a long time. Is there a destination? I remember reading in the Ra material about you, that Ra was talking about these physical sensations that you were having, these orgasmic sensations in your head, right, between the eyebrows and you know, and Ra said something, great things are to come, right? And here I am talking with you many years later. Yeah, what is the journey like? Is there a destination and what advice can you give to us modern seekers?

Well, I think that we each need to realize that the Creator is within us. We can seek the Creator through everything that we do. I would recommend people listen to that still, small voice inside of you. You know, it’s not just intuition; intuition is another part of our mind, but at that voice that gives you direction. I think that’s the Creator speaking to us and I think that we can access that information if we meditate. We need to meditate on a daily basis and maybe more than once a day. At the beginning and the end of the day is what Carla and I usually did and since then I’ve added more meditations because I believe that meditation has always been the primary message from the Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator. They say meditate. Through meditation you can develop a contact with the One Creator. You can evolve in the way that is meant for you to evolve at this time, in this life, on this planet. Each of us has a path we’ve chosen before we’ve come here and it has involved some sort of love and wisdom, learning and serving others and growing as individuals ourselves. So, if we use the simple tool of meditation on a daily basis and ask ourselves what it is we need to do, I think that the answers will be given to us, that each of us will be directed and it’s a way of fulfilling what we’ve chosen to do before we came here.

Thank you for that advice and you’ve, of course, instigated another question that I now have to ask because you’ve touched a topic that is sort of like a little tricky for me. Can you define meditation because I’m, for example, a person—I’m always in my head and I’ve been trying to meditate or maybe I am meditating, I don’t know. I don’t understand what meditation is. For the last three years I’ve been sitting diligently every day and I don’t know if I’m meditating. I went to meditation retreats and couldn’t quite find my teacher. Is there any advice on that front? And what, how do you define meditation?

Well, basically, it’s the intention that you have and that’s true with everything we try to do. We always fall short in this life. We have goals and the important thing is the intention and when you want to meditate and decide and you want to meditate, the silent meditation is the one that the Confederation and Carla and I have always suggested because that’s the way that we have the best access to that still, small voice inside of us. So, just sit and what you’re trying to do—there’s two basic goals: you’re trying to keep your mind focused on one thing and that is basically nothing and you’re trying to be silent. Ra said the mind can be opened like a door and the key is silence.

So we just try to focus on silence and that one point and if you find thoughts coming into your mind, just let them come through, let them go away. Carla never thought she was a terribly good meditator and I haven’t been a terribly good meditator up until recently. I’m getting better. But just keep at it, just keep doing it and have faith. There’s where, you know, faith is one of the primary qualities we need to develop here because everything that has value here, what is love, what is service to others, and what we should be doing in our lives, all of the answers, none of them can be proven. All of them have to depend on faith. So, have faith in what you’re doing that it will work and it works for other people and it will work for you. And it’s probably working for you in ways right now that you don’t know. The things are happening in your life that are more harmonious and more coincidental, more synchronistic than they would have been had you not been meditating. So, meditate!

Okay. I will continue my efforts and try not to try so hard. I think that’s one of the pieces for me. Jim, I want to thank you for joining Kabbalistic Mystic today on, not only for me, but on behalf of all the listeners present and future. I want to thank you for all that you guys have done in L/L Research. I’ve been, I’ve been a supporter for years and will continue to be as much as I can. So, thank you, thank you for your presence and your articulation of all that you’ve learned.

Well, thank you, Ovadya, and I thank everyone else as well. We love you all very much.

This is the end of our episode today. Thank you for listening. You’ve been listening to Kabbalistic Mystic, the podcast for the Western seeker. Music production by Milna Sounds and I think that’s it for today. You can find the show notes as usual and with all the links that we’ve mentioned and one last thing that I want to recommend. If you’re interested in the concept of channeling and this is something of an interest to you and you want to learn how to channel yourself, there’s a great book called, Opening to Channel by Sanaya Roman and Duane Packer that I found to be a wonderful, wonderful book just as an introduction to the subject. So, I’ll put that in the show notes as well. I’m your host, Ovadya Batat, from Spokane, Washington, wishing you love in every moment.