Hi, guys, and welcome to another addition of the The Moore Show. My name is Kevin Moore and I’m currently on location across America, filming for my documentary They Call Us Channelers. Now, two of the participants coming on the documentary are Gary Bean and Jim McCarty from [L/L Research]. Now, just to give you a bit of background on The Law of One, also known as The Ra Material, these books were channeled by L/L Research’s Carla Rueckert, Don Elkins, and Jim McCarty, between 1981 and 1984. Now we’re joined with Jim Carty and Gary Bean from The Law of One research 1 whilst on the road, filming for my documentary. So, enjoy my interview.

Okay, so I’m currently joined here with Jim Carty and Gary Bean. Guys, thank you so much for joining us.

It’s a pleasure to be here.


Let me give the audience a bit of background. So, I’m just filming with Jim, we’ve just filmed the documentary for your part in They Call Us Channelers, for the contribution for The Law of One material. Thank you so, so much. And we’re also joined by Gary, because Gary is also heavily involved in The Law of One material, and I thought it was important to get you on, so I really appreciate you coming on this interview for The Moore Show. And I’m going to give the floor to Jim. How did you [Gary] get involved in The Law of One material, and what is your job at the L&L Research Foundation, what’s it called, the L&L Research, is it?

How I got involved in The Law of One, happened by way of serendipity or synchronicity. It was January 2000 and I had followed a series of links online until I came to Book I, began reading and my body responded immediately with tears, my eyes were waterfalls. I had discovered my philosophical home and I knew it. I was still very fresh to spiritual seeking. I hadn’t amassed much knowledge or background or experience by that point, but nevertheless something in my bones knew that this is what I was seeking. So that was 17 years ago and ever since then it’s formed the bedrock—the foundation and framework of my world view and sense of self. And then what was your second question?

Your interest in the Law of One, what was—

How do you function at L/L Research.

Yes, thank you.

This is the first time I’ve been in front of cameras so there’s a sort of “deer in the headlights” happening in my brain. Back story, of course, but met Jim and Carla in 2002, and in 2003 they were kind enough to invite me to join them in their experiment of spiritual community, myself and a couple others, and I moved in with them from Northeast Ohio. A couple of years thereafter, 2005, Carla couldn’t keep up with the day-to-day work of L/L Research, and she asked if I would be her assistant so she could focus on more creative work, like writing, and I got behind the wheel—the computer, rather—and worked as her assistant and gradually became the person that was running the organization, and as of a few years ago, I became its director. Though that comes with a caveat—this organization is very small potatoes so—

Well, I think its amazing what you’re doing, and I’m so pleased to have met you and that you’re helping Jim to further the work. I did not expect to find that, though I didn’t really know what the makeup was exactly. I’ve just been on this crazy journey of doing the documentary, and to come to an organization like this and have someone like yourself here, and there is another as well, let’s just mention him, there is another with you…

Austin Bridges, we work alongside each other in the office.

So, let’s just give our hands up to Austin as well, for doing what he’s doing, but this is so important to further this work, so I just thank you for what you are doing, and I just thought it was important to have you in this interview as well. Let’s just hand this over to Jim just for a second. Would you say, Jim, that Gary and Austin, that they’re the future of where this work is going to be taken forward?

They are definitely the future—they are the present as well. They do such a magnificent job in the office communicating with people all over the world, communicating with different organizations to get information and to share information, and to do things like put together a book. They’ve already done one book, we’re working on another book now, so that we can do all of this in-house and be self- sufficient, more or less, so they have not only the skills to do all of this, but they’ve got the devotion to L/L Research that is absolutely precious. These guys come to work with the desire to be of service every day and to do whatever they can in the office to help get the word out to people, that there’s a larger reality, your heart’s full of love, share it.

Absolutely, and I think what I see, I’m looking at building a foundation for channeling, and I love what I see here, that there are people out there, that resonate with this information and it’s nice to see younger blood in this as well. That’s also a good thing to see, because it needs that, doesn’t it, for it to continue.

Oh, definitely. Don left in 1984, and Carla in 2015. I imagine that I’ll be around for a while longer, but not as long as these guys, and it’s so good to know that there’s young blood, fresh blood devoted, and dedicated blood that’s—we’re talking about blood [laughter]. Blood in the life-giving sense.

The light, basically they’re giving the light, aren’t they? Now, you’ve been on my show before via Skype, and I say anyone that wants to find out more about our first interview about The Law of One, then they can dive deep into that, but just very briefly for you both, if you could just give me your take on what the Law of One is.

[Jim hands mic to a surprised Gary.]

There are a number of ways to approach that. It’s a very expansive body of philosophy, that really has a cosmology that stretches to the foundations of the universe, and expands outward to its macrocosmic and microcosmic edges. One way I like to describe the Law of One is to say that ultimately what the Law of One is about, is you. It’s not a concept, it’s not something so abstract that it’s outside of yourself, it is about who and what you really are, and the truth of yourself, which the Law of One calls the One Infinite Creator. It says that saying “self” and “the Creator” are two ways of saying the same thing, basically.

All life is one, and the journey of the incarnation and the journey of the soul through multiple incarnations and multiple stages of evolution is the discovery of that truth, not so much the gaining of oneness, or the gaining of awareness or enlightenment, but rather the remembrance and the return to who and what you always have been, and really are. Anything other than a sense of being one and the Creator is an illusion, and our journey is in releasing that camouflage and that illusion. That’s one way to wrap it up. How about you, Jim?

See why I handed him the microphone first? See what a great job he does. Well, the Law of One is pretty simple—we are all part of One Infinite Creator, and we’re all here to help the Creator know itself, we’re here to help ourselves know ourselves, and to know the Creator. It’s all tied together. Everything is one.

Everything is one. And you know, throughout this documentary that’s exactly the message through everyone that’s coming through. Love is the only answer, we are all one. There have been many times, as I’ve shared with you, that in the interview I’ve turned around to them, and said, “Hang on, a minute, who am I speaking to”, because I thought I was speaking to this entity but there’s a change, there’s something different here, they’re “Well, no, you’re speaking to your higher self.” And I’m like, “it always comes back to that, doesn’t it, that there’s only one in this room, and that what we do to another, we do to ourselves.” Now, if we use that principle of oneness, and people embrace that more, do you think the world could change overnight? And I’ll ask you both that question.

If everybody did it at once, it certainly could. The more people that change their minds about how they see the world around them, and begin to see it as a unified oneness, or unity, in that degree we change every day, we move towards the positive and move towards the fourth density of love and light and understanding.

There’s the concept of dukkha, I presume that’s the way it’s pronounced, in Buddhist philosophy, which, if memory serves, points to the underlying suffering of life, and suggests that that suffering arises out of a dislocation with the Creator, as if a spoke on the wheel has gotten out of place. Forgive me, Buddhists, if I’m not speaking to that properly. But, point being, you said, “Could things change overnight?” if suddenly everyone had this realization of oneness, and I would say, “Yes,” because so much of the world’s disharmony and division, and difficulty, and pain and suffering, arises out of this fundamental sense of separation from the Creator. So, to realize oneness would be to get at the root level of suffering, and the distance between you and me, and us three, and the distance, the seeming, illusory distance between us and everything. So there’s all sorts of ways to approach what is problematic about this world, all different sorts of levels, and I think that is about as central and core and fundamental as one could get, to seek oneness with the Creator.

Yeah, because the way the world is going right now, I could say on one hand it’s perfect, right? But on the other hand, things aren’t looking very peaceful right now, are they? So, what drives me, with the issues going on in the world right now, it just drives me to want to do this work even more, because in all channeled material is the answer that we were looking for in the first place. This answer of peace, this answer of love, this answer of what it’s truly all about. But, without being addicted to someone else telling us their truth, it’s really about finding your own truth, would you say? So, turning that around, a long-winded question, what is channeling to you?

Channeling to me? Carla felt all of us were natural channels. At its minimum definition it’s just pointing to the function, or the capability, of bringing something through one’s personality. So, artists, especially, are channels, because they’re dipping into the subconscious realm and manifesting that, bringing something through, whether their personal unconscious, or the collective unconscious. That’s why art has a way of speaking to us about who we are.

But, formal, vocal channeling specifically, which has been your passion for some years now, what is that? That is, to me… that when performing vocal channeling, one is bringing through information from beyond the conscious mind. That could be from one’s personal unconscious, or one’s personal guidance system, or one’s higher self, which is still within the vicinity, or the shell of the self. But the type of channeling that L/L Research has done is bringing through what is called “outer planes entities”—entities that are external to you. And the channel in that process acts as would a radio receiver, receiving that frequency, that signal, as L/L Research performs it and understands it, translating that concept, enclosing that in its own understanding and words.

So one of the key functions of LL is not just the Law of One, it’s also for the research of channeling in general, as well? For people to come together to find a community where others are channeling and they can learn channeling, or not learn it, but, well, you tell me.

L/L Research offers a particular type of channeling. It tunes into a particular source, to let their message speak, and that source is called The Confederation of the Planets, and they broadcast what you might call a certain wavelength about the unity of all things, and the love and light of all things. So, L/L Research’s function isn’t so much to teach channeling itself, per se, but uses this as a tool to bring through this information, the service being the offering of this information to the interested spiritual seeker, because there is a demographic that really resonates and appreciates this material. Does that answer your question?

It does. Let’s get into the Confederation of Planets, then, Jim, as well. So, the Confederation of Planets—that’s one of the other angles that L/L Research is promoting.

Right. That has been the source of all of our contacts over the years since 1961, and we’ve been told that this Confederation exists for planets like Earth that have gone through, or are going through, this transition into the fourth density, and have become, what they call, a social memory complex, or what you could call a planetary mind, or a group mind. Then the group, or the planetary mind has a chance to make a choice as to how they want to continue their evolution. And, positively oriented entities continue to grow by being of service to others who call for their services. Most of the time the call comes from a planet like Earth that has not yet gone through the transition, but is about to go through and is having a little trouble and needs some help. So, this is sort of an all-points bulletin—“folks, we’re going through this transition, we could use a little angelic help, a little inspired help, a little indication about how we might refind this process of opening our hearts and being of service to others.

Ra said that in this Confederation, there were numerous entities—53 civilizations, 500 planets that have come together within about a—I don’t know what the region is, but in the Milky Way galaxy, there are a number of these confederations. Their purpose is to provide assistance to those who need it, and it seems that some of the planetary entities have different types of abilities, or services they can offer. Some, for example, simply sent love or light, or love and light, there are combinations of these that can go together, and different planetary entities send this as a constant beaming of energy, positive energy to groups of entities, such as Earth, that need the help, and some are more specific in their help, they open up channels as we’ve been talking about today, so that various individuals can begin to receive this inspired information that illumines the process of seeking and the opening of our hearts.

So, thank you. So, in totality then, when anyone comes here to work with you, and to channel, and even when yourselves are experimenting with it, and doing it, you’re connecting with those in that Confederation?


Not outside of that?

Right. There are some entities who channel their own spiritual guides, or channel inner plane masters from the Earth itself. There are such entities around that are quite willing to give their services as well, but we, at L&L have not channeled those sources. We respect them, of course. But those are not our specialties.

No. Absolutely. Why do you think you’re connected with that particular subset? Do you think there’s some sort of karmic reason where you’re involvement lies spiritually?

With the Confederation? Well, I have a hunch that many people on Earth, not just us, but many people are connected with these sources of energy and inspiration by being actually a part of that social memory complex. Another way that the entities of the Confederation are of service to Earth and other planets like Earth, is that some of their individuals incarnate on Earth to become what we call “wanderers”. Now, these wanderers also go through the same forgetting process that everybody else does. That’s just the way it is—if you want to go to Earth, you go through the forgetting, because if you didn’t, you would be infringing upon the freewill of those that you’re trying to serve because you’d be taken as gods and they wouldn’t have the free will to say, “No, you could be wrong. I don’t want to do what you’re saying, I think you’re wrong.” So every wanderer goes through the forgetting, but has this impulse within to try to unlock the mysteries of why they feel somewhat different, why they’re not quite at home, why they feel like they need to be doing something to help other people, and they begin to awaken to this choice that they made before the incarnation, to come here and to do what they’re doing, whether they’re healers, or they teach, or they channel, or whatever it is they do—if they’re organizers in a community, they all have a certain talent besides just being here and lending their higher vibrations, they are from a higher density so just being here is like sharing on an unconscious level with everybody else that’s here.

I keep saying to myself, “Forget changing the world, just change yourself. Work on yourself and it ripples out to others, doesn’t it?” And would you say, both of you, and I’ve kind of asked Gary this as well, would you say that if people felt the draw to L&L and they felt the draw to the Law of One, because it is great material—this kind of material, without excluding other material, but this material would change the world overnight, wouldn’t it? If we want peace, the peace is right there in the teachings.

Would we say that it is a philosophy that promotes peace?

Yes, if people would just embrace the teachings from the Law of One, we would have a world that would be in a much different state.

It’s hard to predict how anybody will react to the information and how they will apply it and how they will take it and interpret it, and so forth, but ultimately this message—as is true of any source that I would call of a mystic variety that speaks to the underlying unity of all of creation—yes, if applied, would fundamentally change the world, change it in ways that are unimaginable.

Earth as it is… there’s a sense that when you read history, that there’s just this narrative, and we are stuck in this narrative and it could not have unfolded any other way, that A happened which led to event B, which led to event C, and we exist in a world that’s kind of given to us, but when one understands that really we are creating this world on a collective level, through the exercise of our own free will, that humanity could have made any number of different choices along the way, and created a very different world than the one we live in. Humanity has it, within itself, to create a paradise on this planet of cooperation, and love, and kindness between people, but due to any number of diagnostic reasons, including confusion and ignorance (without saying that in a judgmental way), but just lack of knowledge of the true nature of oneself, due to a variety of reasons, humanity has not created a world of love here. Love is abused, rejected, denied, ignored…

But then, do you think as a soul you would have wanted to have an experience on a world that is only bliss and love? Is that going to make a bad Saturday night for you? Are you going to be a bit bored, or do you want the thrill of what happens down here? Yet even in this moment we’re denying it, because I’m saying it needs to get better because it could go one way, which is not very good. Is that a contradiction?

Ra does indicate that a secondary, or even tertiary reason for a wanderer coming here and incarnating is exactly what you’re describing—the difficulty of this place creates an intensive opportunity for advancing one’s spiritual evolution, like putting oneself through a boot camp, or some extremely difficult situation. But the fundamental, the primary reason that the wanderer incarnates here is because they look at this planet, and they see the sorrow, the deep, deep suffering and pain here, and they want to be of service, they want to respond, and as Jim was saying, they decide that the most effective way to respond is to risk the forgetting, forgetting who they are, where they come from, what the universe is actually really like, forget all that and incarnate into the world as a human, and to experience a human lifetime, with a human mortality, and human challenges and difficulty, and hopefully, in that process, awaken and remember that they are here to serve and promote and exemplify love—not be elevated above anybody, but humbly represent love through one’s life.

Well, isn’t that right, Jim? That’s some of the core teachings of the Law of One. Same question to you, in a different way, I’ll just ask you this. Again, most channeled material, sticking with the Law of One, but it’s all saying the same thing—the channeled material out there, and the Law of One, is saying that we can find world peace, that we can find peace within ourselves, that it doesn’t have to be so difficult. Us human beings always do it the most difficult way.

Well, Ra said one of the reasons that we do it the most difficult way is because when we are able to respond with love to a really traumatic situation, we have done much more work in consciousness than if we were faced with an easier situation. But actually, most of the learning takes place in a traumatic way because it carries more weight in our total beingness to be able to respond with love.

They gave an example that maybe a highly positively oriented entity would determine pre-incarnatively, to refrain from any defensive action, no matter what, even the killing of a beloved friend, or of the self, so that this being one of the most traumatic things that could happen, would build a great more strength of a spiritual nature within such an entity’s being if they were able to refrain from trying to kill the person that was killing their friend, had just killed their friend, and instead refused to partake in the same tragedy, shall we say, that was inflicted upon the friend. It’s a very intensive lesson, and many of our lessons are intensive. We oftentimes program things that are difficult so that we will learn more—so that we will accomplish more in a lifetime than could be accomplished if we took the easy route.

Yeah, well, we seem to be doing that right now. Ra’s been here before, hasn’t he, in previous incarnations, he had a physical life, or she had a physical life, however you want to term this entity—there was a physical life, wasn’t there, back in Egypt?

They walked among the Egyptians, but they didn’t incarnate. They landed on the inner planes, then materialized. They were here to teach the Law of One because the Egyptians 11,000 years ago were a pantheistic culture, and as such, recognized that the Creator was alive in all things, so Ra thought that type of belief system would prepare the Egyptians to grasp the concepts of the Law of One. Unfortunately, even though Ra came as brothers and sisters to teach the Law of One, the Egyptians tended to worship them as if they were gods, which caused a distortion in both their perception of Ra and the Law of One, for which Ra felt responsible. So, their stay was cut short and they retired to the inner planes of Earth to consider how to balance those distortions, and throughout the years since, those 11,000 years ago, have had various opportunities, such as when they communicated with Akanaton 3,300 ago, the Pharaoh of Egypt, who decreed the Law of One as the religion of Egypt. Since that time they were able to contact people in their dreams to give inspired images and visions to awaken wanderers, and so forth. Then came the opportunity to communicate through our group. All of these have been attempts to balance the distortions they feel responsible for from their time of walking among the Egyptians.

Right, so for people watching this that are a bit unsure, and thank you for bearing with us, unsure people, right? I always say to myself, okay, so what this reason is, is about if we can’t prove that Ra exists, yeah, but the teachings are bloody good, right, I mean the teachings are just out there, they’re on the top of some of the best channeled material, right? Isn’t it all really about internal disclosure? We always want this external disclosure, “They’re going to come here and save us” or “There’s going to be disclosure at one point,” and all this, what about the internal disclosure to ourselves, that this is a reality that really does exist. This is a reality that really does exist in the sense that we are having a human experience—an internal disclosure to ourselves is the biggest promise we could give ourselves.

That’s right. That’s what all spiritual seekers are trying to do when they’re trying to discover what we loosely call the truth, they’re trying to figure out, “Well, am I really part of a larger entity, of a larger concept of the universe, is there some concept of love that really does enliven all things? Is this a creation of love, or is there some other way that has to be better than what I’m seeing in the world around me, so if the world around me isn’t giving me the kind of answers that support me, and let my heart open in the way it wants to open, then I need to find another way. I need to find some internal disclosures that make sense to me.”

And so, people begin investigating different philosophies or different religions, or different teachers, and they begin to make contacts that do open the heart, and when they start to feel their own heart opening, then that becomes the internal disclosure that is unmistakable, that is undeniable. When you feel your heart open, and that it changes your point of view, and you see people around you as your brothers and your sisters, as Ra says, your very other self, then you have found something that is beyond all measure. It’s a treasure, it’s a pearl of great price, it is called by many, and it is indeed. So, I think that that internal disclosure is really what we’re looking for. If it happens to come by means of extra-terrestrial entities, great! If it comes by means of your next-door neighbor revealing to you that she had an experience that opened her heart, and she can give you some clues to doing that, great! However, it comes, let it come.

That’s really beautiful. Now I’ll pass it over to Gary. Thank you. That’s so beautiful, because one thing I love about the work that you guys do, is that you allow all the other channelings to sit around the Law of One as well, and be on the same part. The Law of One will always be what you guys do, because it’s what resonates with you. They’re all leading to the same path, aren’t they?

I have more to offer the internal vs. external disclosure question, that’s that I think gets to experiential vs. intellectual understanding or knowing. Information can only take you so far, no matter how enlightened and pure and precise and positively oriented it may be.

I personally I think the Law of One is the best thing since sliced bread, nevertheless, it is, as is all outer teaching, just a raft to take you to the other shore. It’s your journey that only you can walk, lessons that only you can learn. So the information is just a resource in that regard.

The way L/L Research offers its information is to be very clear never to suggest that the seeker needs this information, or they will be a better person if they just read this information. Which isn’t to say you can’t highlight the positive values within it, but never to proselytize, or to sell it, but to make it available in a passive sort of way, and always the spirit of offering this has been going back to Don and Carla and Jim in the beginning—the spirit has been: if this resonates with you, great, make use of it, but if it doesn’t, then discard it, because each is the author of their own journey, and each has within the self an authority that knows what is true or not true for themselves.

You’ve reminded me exactly of what I was going to say—the idea that Jim was saying as well, that some people, the only way they’re going to wake up is through the Law of One. The only way someone else is going to wake up is through someone that channels oneness, or someone who channels source or whatever, right, but for a lot of people, it’s the whole E.T. aspect, whether they’ve had incarnations as E.T.‘s before, and this is one way that resonates with them, but that’s where the Law of One comes into its own, is that because it’s got Ra there, and the E.T. connection, people resonate with this because of that, so it’s important work that you’re doing, I feel, because of that angle.

I definitely agree with this, that each finds what each needs, and this definitely fits the profile of certain people, but it’s not always because, it seemed like the way you were describing it, like there was some emphasis on the source, because it is E.T.

I was kind of saying that, yeah.

There is important understanding to be elicited from knowing the source, but, I would say for most people, it isn’t… Most people don’t have a sequence of evaluating this material that starts with, “Ok, these are E.T.’s, so the information is probably really good.” Meaning that the important thing isn’t the E.T. aspect, but rather… and that word E.T. is so loaded with negative connotations, that I seldom use it.

But, do you see that some people would make that connection, though, they would say, “I kind of resonate with this material, because it’s the E.T. side, now that fills my heart more because I just get that.” I don’t know why they get it like that, but they do. I’m saying that maybe it’s because they’ve had past lives, they remember their past lives on another planet more than they do some other teaching, do you know what I mean? There’s a resonation there at some deep level. Or maybe they’re from the soul group that Ra is from. Maybe it’s soul groups waking up.

Yes, that’s what Jim was indicating, that likely it’s my belief that a lot of people who are drawn to this information are, themselves, wanderers. It’s not necessary to be a wanderer, there’s nothing that makes one special if they are or not. We don’t emphasize that, we don’t hand out badges because one is a wanderer, but my presumption is that if this material makes sense to you—because it’s so outside of the box, and it describes a cosmology that is foreign to conventional understanding about the way history and the universe works—that chances are, if it makes that kind of sense to you, like it did to me, like it did to Jim, chances are the origin of your soul is not native to Earth, you are here to be of service as a wanderer. But that’s just a theory.

What could we say to people for a reason why to look at channeled material in general, because I’m trying to get over in this interview that it’s the emphasis on world peace, it’s peace within, it’s your own world peace, not just world peace in a global scale, but there’s something that’s in me that really finds that the answer is in the channeled material, but it’s not for everyone, is it, I guess? But it could be, couldn’t it? There’s something for everyone, I think, in some respects.

I think it’s a good idea to check out any source of information that claims to be of an inspired nature, and that works with the concept of love and acceptance and unity. Now, most channeled material does that, so I would recommend that people give it a try. Now, if you find out that it really doesn’t speak to you, then I’m sure there is some other material that will speak to you, or some other person, or some other philosophy or religion, because this is true, and it has found it’s way into all religions and philosophies, so wherever you look with a pure heart and desire to find, you will seek and find.

Absolutely. Again, all the Ra Material is available on the website, isn’t it, on your website?

Right. It’s available for free as downloads. We do have printed books to sell for people like me who like to hold a book in their hands.

And that website is?


And just from having spent a micro amount of time with you, there is so much more material that you guys have got that’s not been released as well—tapes and tapes of stuff?

Yeah, Carla and Don began recording—rather keeping the recording of channeling, once Carla started because it took a qualitative leap forward in 1974. So from 1974 until 2017… there was only a period of a few years when Carla wasn’t channeling, from 2011 to 2014 when she had spinal fusion surgery, that there’s been an interruption to that channeling… so that’s 37 years’ worth of channeling transcripts available online, along with about eleven to twelve books that are also published for free on the website, along with (we’re at twelve different language right now) along with interviews and speeches and so forth.

But, if there’s an opportunity, I’d like to speak to the question that you’d previously asked about—it seems like your own quest is to ask questions about channeling. What is channeling? What is its value? How do we relate to it? How do we make use of this information, and so forth.

So, I have this analogy that helps me to understand what channeling is, and what, as Jim was saying, any inspired message is. If you could imagine a society, or just a group of people who are isolated. Say they’re surrounded by an imposing physical barrier, like mountains, and they’ve developed this culture and this worldview within their cloistered environment, and they don’t have information from the outside, or they don’t see what the rest of the planet really looks like. They don’t have a sense of their true situation. Their whole world and their whole history has happened within this little isolated valley.

And then somebody comes to them from the outside—it could be a Jesus, or a Buddha—and the Jesus figure says, “Actually, this is what the rest of the world looks like. Actually, this is the function and meaning. And actually, you’re not really bound by the difficult circumstances you’re in. There are possibilities beyond your imagining, which include healing, and understanding, and transformation. Life as you have conceived of it, is not as limited and narrow. There’s so much more to you and the universe.” And for whatever reason, you trust that source as credible. You say, “Well, that makes a lot of sense, that speaks to my heart.” (And there’s a whole arena of discernment, because people have climbed over those metaphorical mountains and given bad information.) But there have been teachers of humanity, that within our own population, who have woken up and seen, like Jesus saw the big picture, and then he tried to communicate that as best he could.

Channeling is, I think, another form of that. You’re tuning in to receive information from somebody with a larger perspective, and the Confederation of Planets is one such group that has a perspective, who can reach back to us and say, “actually, this is the nature of the universe, it’s built of love, and you’re not finite beings, and you’re not separate”, and so on and so forth. That’s one of the values of channeling.

That’s really beautiful, and I just wanted to mention here as well, because I know we’re all over the place, but that’s cool, that I have a chance walk around L&L Research today, and just to be here, with all this wealth of information, the books, what you’re doing is just… I said to myself on the way here, “I’m so lucky just to experience this right now, because not many people get to experience it in person.” It’s all very much online nowadays, a lot of this stuff is, so just to be here with you both is very, very special right now, and I mean that, I truly do, because it’s just right up my alley, do you know what I mean? My channeling passion right now, so it’s so cool to be taking this journey to meet passionate people like yourselves. We’re trying to help the world.

So, let’s just go, for the last ten minutes of this interview, just with some of the Ra teachings. For yourselves, right now, in the times that we live in, what for you are some of the most important Ra teachings right now. Stay with yourself, Gary. What are some of the most important Ra teachings?

There’s a treasure trove… The communication of the power within oneself to chart one’s journey. I don’t mean in a wish fulfillment sort of way, like, “I could have wealth, or I could achieve this or that material end,” but opening the door to the possibility of knowing who you really are, and becoming empowered therein, and knowing that however difficult life may seem, or with whatever limitations you are struggling, that there is always the possibility of healing, and not only healing, but using one’s life experience for spiritual evolution. The message that no one is ultimately a victim of life. Whatever what happens to one, one always has the power of determining how they will respond to that moment, and how they will use it. It is one of the most radically self-empowering philosophies that I have yet encountered.

Absolutely. There’s so much you could say right now and it’s difficult to put what I’ve asked you there into such a short amount of time, but that’s what resonates with you, so thank you very much for that, and with yourself, Jim. What would you say are some of the teachings of the Law of One right now in the times that we’re living in, or it could be some of your favorites that would be good for someone to hear right now, as well.

Well, I think that the thing that has helped me the most is the exercise that Ra gave for using the daily catalyst that comes our way. It’s called the “balancing exercises”. Since we are universal beings, we contain everything within us. If we see the thief, the murderer, the President, the CEO—we’re everybody. Everybody that has ever existed and done anything on this planet, we are the same. So, what we need to do is to be able to balance the various distortions. If we feel anger towards somebody, or impatience, or even love, or jealousy, or confusion, or doubt. All of these are facets of what we’ve come to learn, and to balance them.

Ra suggests that we use our meditative state in the evening, and go over the day that you’ve just lived. If there’s anything that happened, either positive or negative, that threw you off your center of love, then that needs to be balanced. The basic principle, as Ra says, it is the way of distortion, and in order to balance the distortion, one must first accentuate it. So, if you were impatient with somebody during your day, then you recreate the situation exactly as you remember it. Then you blow up that impatience that you felt then, up huge, out of proportion, ridiculously large, and then, for just an instant in your mind, you image the polar opposite—patience, the depth of patience, you don’t have to blow it up like you blew up the impatience—watch it get bigger, and then when they’re both before your inner mind the same, then accept yourself and love yourself, of being a being of unity that has both of these means to know love, contained within yourself. You do that with anger, do that with doubt, with jealousy, or if you’re extremely outrageously happy about something good, you got a raise, somebody smiled at you that you wanted to make contact with—those need to be balanced too. We need to get off the wheel of good and bad, off the wheel of duality, so that our response to any situation is love.

Even with what’s going on out there in the mainstream.

That’s right. Because all of this is an illusion. It’s meant to look real. It’s meant to look like there’s no other choice but separation, so that we will take it seriously and work on it. That work creates a polarization in consciousness that makes us more positively oriented. If we, in this illusion could look outside in the time/space, or the spirit world to see how things really are—they’re unified, there’s love and light everywhere, we’re all the Creator, there would be no reason to take this seriously. There would be no learning happening here. This illusion exists so we can learn. So, we need to balance all of the things we experience so that our only response is love. If we can do that 51% of the time, then we can make the transition to fourth density.

That whole acceptance, that’s not saying when someone hurt someone, that’s not a real thing, or you can’t go out and just go rob a bank or do something crazy, we’re not saying that, but there is some sort of reaction for every action, isn’t there? So, if you’re going to go do something, there is a reaction for that. And if you see it as though what you’re doing to another, you’re doing to yourself, which is the guiding principle here, why would you want to hurt yourself?

Basically, Ra said, what we need to be balancing more than anything are our thoughts. Our behaviors, of course. But, we have far more thoughts that go one way and another than we do behaviors because it’s a lot easier to think, than it is to do. You can think a whole lot of thoughts in five minutes, but you can only do so much in five minutes. So, what we need to be balancing are mostly our thoughts. We have thoughts that we might want to murder somebody, just for a moment. We need to balance that, because for a moment, we are a murderer.

Well, I always say, if you’ve never thought about suicide, you’ve never lived, do you know what I mean? So, I think there’s a lot of thoughts that go through our heads sometimes, but like you say, you have to balance them. How much is a thought coming from love? And isn’t that one of the principles of the Law of One, with the Ra Material, that thoughts are creative? So, we have to be careful of our thoughts, which is easier said than done, isn’t it, sometimes?

Oh, yeah, it’s a radical thought. Respond in love to everything? It is said when Gandhi was assassinated, he made the gesture with his hand, that meant “I forgive you.”

Yeah, that’s tough isn’t it?

That he was that advanced that he could do that. Right away—to forgive the person that killed him.

Do you think that’s when the illusion ends, when you get to that place?

I think it is a possibility at that point, that you are able to be harvested, but most people who get to that point in the positive sense, don’t want to leave. They want to use that realization to help others.

Yeah, that’s kind of what you guys are doing as well. You’re being of such service right now, doing what you’re doing. The lives that you touched with the work that you do is incredible.

Well, we are grateful to be able to help anybody at all. It is our great desire, and we’re very thankful for this opportunity.

Moving up to Gary, do you think what the Ra Material is—I say, it would take a lifetime to study the whole thing. Well, not a lifetime, is that being fair to it? I just think it’s very in depth like a lot of them are, do you know what I mean? But you can surface skim it as well, and you’ll get a lot from it, right? But do you think that even the material that the Law of One has brought through, is up to a level—there are seismic levels of information that have never even come through yet.

Yeah, a couple of responses: One, is that I’ve been studying this information for going on 17 years now, Jim obviously since January 15, 1981, when it first came through, and I have yet, and I know Jim would second this, yet to find an end to the treasures, the spiritual gems of insight that it yields. Continually, it seems to meet you where you are and the more that you grow, the deeper the material gets. Which isn’t to promote this as being better than another source, it’s just to describe my own love and what I love about this. And then you ask…

Do you think there are levels of seismic information that have not been brought through yet?

Yes. Thank you. The Ra contact specifically consists of 2,637 questions, give or take in there, and the information that came through was strictly a function of Don’s questioning, and sometimes the group’s questioning, but Ra only responded to Don’s questions, so what they were able to map of spiritual evolution and of the cosmology and the workings of the universe, happened only at those places where Don shone his spotlight of attention. So, yes, there is an infinite world of stuff that could be explored with other questions, as well.

Well, that’s mind bending. Wasn’t there the thing that Ra was also communicating to levels above itself, as well, potentially? There were levels above Ra that Ra was communicating to beings above Ra?

Yeah, Ra, like other mystical sources of teaching, indicated that there is a great chain of being with stages or levels of consciousness, which isn’t a negative hierarchy in implying that say, Stage 3 is superior to Stage 2, and Stage 2 should be enslaved or dominated. That disclaimer aside—there is an infinite chain of being, meaning there are stages of consciousness above Ra. Ra has its own teachers, they have their own teachers, and to us, because relative to our position on the evolutionary ladder, they’re a little bit ahead, so they have information they could offer us a teacher.

And just finally, do you both channel?

Austin and I, actually, along with a few others, are in the process of learning in order to carry on the work of L/L Research, because that’s L/L’s principle function. It is however something that’s very uncomfortable, and is antithetical to me, specifically, because I’m very self-policed and controlled, and always concerned about how I’m coming across. But, with channeling, you have to relax that tendency somewhat, and let what comes out without analyzing it, so, yeah, we’re in the process, and we have good teachers.

Yes you do. You’ve got Jim McCarty, and Jim, you’re also channeling right now still, aren’t you?


Just remind us, who and what are you channeling, right now?

Well, we’re channeling a principle called Q’uo, that’s made up of three different planetary consciousnesses, one from fourth, one from fifth, and one from sixth density, and the sixth density one is Ra, and the channelings that we get now are kind of a stepped-down version of the Law of One, expressed in simpler terms, easier to understand, and a lot of people find it more helpful because of that. So, we’re happy to be able to provide that.

Well, it’s interesting, so it’s almost like there’s more foundational stuff coming through, but there’s the real high tier level stuff, with the Law of One still always going to be there as well. That’s interesting. And finally, I’m going to dedicate this show to Carla, because Carla obviously made a lot of this possible, and I feel that she’s always here, she’s watching, and she’s so happy and content with the direction that L&L is going in and has gone in. I just wanted to add that. I had that feeling that she was with us today, which is not something that I was even going to talk about.

Well, thank you so much, Kevin, for the dedication to Carla. I know that she would be thrilled. I’m sure she’s very, very happy with what’s happening at L&L Research because we’ve got the best people in the world in the front office, and we’ve been fortunate to have so many people supporting us around the world, for many years now. It’s a real joy to be here and to be able to offer whatever we can to be of service to others.

And if people want to donate to L&L, they can do that just by contacting you as well. There’s many ways to donate, as well.

Contact at www.llresearch.org and that will do it.

Excellent. Okay, and finally, Gary, just with yourself, then, I just want to say, thank you, for what you’re doing as well. I mean this. It’s a real pleasure to meet you, it really is, and I really appreciate your drive, and I don’t know what the right word is really, but just the contribution that you’re doing as well. It’s really good to see that, so thank you, thank you very much, I can see what a great asset you’ve been to L&L. It’s beautiful to see that.

Likewise, like I told you earlier, we’re really digging your vibes, to put it one way, but it’s so nice to see somebody out there in a process of investigation, and not a personal investigation, but certainly you’re driven by your own desire to know the truth, but an investigation that turns around and shares what you find with everybody else. That is such a huge service, because what can we offer one another—fundamentally and primarily, of course, love—but love has any number of different expressions, one of which is sharing illumination, or information, or perspective, and that’s precisely what you’re doing, so thank you.

I really appreciate that. When I was doing this documentary, I never wanted to do a documentary that was just going to be—“It’s going to reach the masses, and it’s going to wake everyone up,” I wanted to do one that if it was going to just touch the life of one person, that was good enough for me. All this egoism about it being a huge documentary, no. It’s going to reach the right people, and that’s what it was always for, for the future as well. You guys have contributed towards it, so thank you very much for what you’re doing. I’m going to link up the previous interview with Jim, and all the links will be at the bottom for L&L, and I’m sure that our paths will cross again. So, gentlemen, just thank you so, so much for joining us today.

Thank you so much for taking the long journey to get here.

My pleasure.


  1. L/L Research, that is.