Broadcasting from the U.K. and across the world online. You’re now watching the Moore Show and I’m your host, Kevin Moore. Now, for the next hour I’ll be covering subjects that will open up your mind and provide you with information you may have never heard before. On today’s show I’m about to be joined by my guest Jim McCarty. Jim is better known as the scribe in the Law of One Ra Material. Now, the Law of One books were channeled by L/L Research’s Carla Reuckert, Don Elkins, and Jim McCarty, between 1981 and 1984. The basic principle of the Law of One is that all is one, that all things that exist are ultimately the same essence within many forms and configurations. The philosophy of the Law of One describes the big questions of life—why, how and where everything that exists comes from, as well as its place within the manifest creation. The five books explore this premise in relation to many aspects of life from philosophy, religion, spirituality, cosmology, history, politics, and the paranormal and much more.

Now, to discuss this and more, Jim McCarty, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, I’m glad to be here.

It’s so good to have you on, it really is. I was just saying that as we briefly spoke on the phone when we just connected now. There’s so much great channeled material out there, and most of the original people that were to do with that channeled material are no longer with us, but to have you with us is a great honor, that someone who was actually there and witnessed this, and it changed their lives as well. So, this is fantastic, and I just want to say you’re one of the participants as well for the documentary They Call Us Channelers, so I just want to say thank you for doing this and being part of that documentary as well.

Well, I’m very honored to be a part of it, thank you.

So, lot’s to get into. Do you know what, we may have to make some of these answers a bit sound bite-ish, just because there is a sheer amount to get through here. What I may do, is when I do the documentary I may do another interview with you, because I don’t think we’re going to get through all of this stuff. Let’s just get to the core of this, as well.

Who was Ra, and how did you— Well, no, actually, what is Ra’s message? Just state that to begin with.

That’s a very simple message. We’re all part of one Creator, and one creation, all is one.

All is one. Yeah, I said that in the intro as well. Okay, so, now L/L Research, this dates back to 1961, I believe, when it was formed. Just tell us about, before we talk about your involvement with it, just tell us about how L/L Research came about as well, just very briefly.

Okay. It’s L&L Research, we’re not a limited liability company. [Laughs]. Back in 1961 Don was a professor of physics at the University of Louisville, but he was interested in paranormal activities, and he got some information from a guy in Chicago that had contact with supposed extraterrestrial sources. And Don got ahold of this notebook and said, “Well, I’m going to give this a try, but I’m a scientist, so I’m going to try an experiment.” He got twelve of his students from the Speed Scientific School that were taking physics from him, and he decided to have a meditation group and not tell them what was going to happen. One of the students asked if his girlfriend could come along, and that turned out to be Carla Reuckert.

So, after about six months of meditating twice a week, they were getting a lot of what we call “conditioning,” their tongue was moving, jaw was moving, they were getting palpitations in their chest, their forehead was getting sensations, but they weren’t speaking any words even though they were getting words telepathically, they didn’t want to feel like they were making it up. So, the guy in Chicago finally came down and said, “Well, I’ll channel for you, and we’ll see what happens.” And, his source said, “Well, we have contact with everyone here, but everyone’s afraid to speak because they’re afraid they’re going to be making it up.” And that’s the nature of channeling—you have to speak the words in order for more words to come, and then analyze it later. If you analyze it while it’s happening, it will stop.

So, that’s the way it got started. The meditation group then developed from that group of twelve students and became L&L Research. Actually, [inaudible] 1968.

Right. Okay. And how old was Carla when this was starting out?

She was 21.

Right. Okay. And so from 21 she was channeling?

No, the interesting thing here, is there were twelve students in that class, plus Carla. She wasn’t a member of the class, she was just the girlfriend of one of the students. All of them except Carla, learned how to channel. She didn’t really want to at first. She liked the messages, she enjoyed the meditation, but it was 1974, twelve years later that she finally learned how to channel, because all the other students had moved out of town, gotten jobs, gotten married, and they were gone. Don said, “Well, the free lunch is over, it’s time you learned how to channel.”

Right. Yeah, that is the process of channeling as well, where you start to hear the words come in, well, not for everyone, but mostly, and then, they will keep coming in until you kind of repeat them, and then it kind of goes into synch in the end. Most definitely. Okay, okay, right. And then I believe a relationship was formed. Was it between Don and Carla at some point?

Right. Carla had a chance with her boyfriend—who was a member of the meditation group to start with—they got married, because they had a chance to be the opening act for Peter, Paul and Mary, a singing group at that time that was just getting started. And her boyfriend, Jim D., said, “Well, if we’re going to be one the road, we have to be married.” So, they were married for four years until he decided he didn’t want to be married any more. That was 1968, so Carla came back from where they had moved to in Vancouver, B.C., and hooked up with Don again, started the meditations, and L/L Research began in November of 1968 as a result. There was a four-year hiatus in there where she was with Jim D.

Right. Now, Don, obviously a PhD 1. He had an interest in Ufology, would you say?

Don was taking flying lessons from Captain Tom Mantell, in 1948 when Don was a junior in high school. Captain Mantell was in the air one day when a UFO was spotted over Mayfield, Kentucky. He was in a B51 World War II fighter plane, and the control tower at Godman Field Fort Knox asked if he could check this UFO out. He did. He went through 20,000 feet which, was not a thing to do in his plane because it didn’t have oxygen, so his plane augered in and crashed, and he was killed while chasing the UFO in 1948. That got Don interested in UFOs, so that’s how it started when he was a junior in high school.

Right. Absolutely. Thank you for that. So, I believe there was one—let’s bring you into this story—we’re skipping a little bit here. Well, actually, before we skip, just very briefly, did Carla channel anyone else apart from Ra? Did any other groups come through her?

Oh, yes. When she first started in 1974, she got the basic introductory information. Hatonn was the first Confederation channel to channel through her, and gave a lot of beginning information, the original thought that we’re all one, the Creator made us all. And after a few years of channeling Hatonn, then Latwii came through, which was a fifth-density entity, to give some intermediate information. So then, after seven years of channeling, both introductory and intermediate information, she began channeling Ra quite unexpectedly, while she was teaching another student how to channel. She went into trance and left her body by a means which we never understood, and began channeling Ra, which was advanced information.

Absolutely. And when she trance channeled, that wasn’t something she could teach, do you know what I mean? That was, as you say, she didn’t really understand how she kind of vacated her body and allowed Ra to come through, it was just a gift she had.

Apparently so. She had no idea she could do this. She did have an experience with trance just before the Ra contact when a meditation group member’s wife passed away, and she had told her husband, “I will let you know that I’m okay on the other side.” So, when she passed away, her husband asked Carla, “Would you try to contact Elaine so I can know that she’s okay?” So, Carla went into trance then for the first time. And she did it one more time for Tom, but it was very wearing for her. She said, “I don’t want to do that anymore.” But apparently, those two trance sessions were necessary to get her prepared for the Ra contact.

Okay, okay.

Apparently, the ability to go into trance and to leave her body was a gift, as you said, she didn’t do any work to learn how to do that, and we never understood how she did it.

No, absolutely not. And it’s unique, isn’t it, that she—do you think because Don had an interest in the UFO side, that’s where her influence came into channeling extraterrestrial, interdimensional planetary ET beings in a sense. Had Don had another sort of interest in sort of eclectic groups, maybe, then she would have pulled through an eclectic group, or do you think that her soul lineage was connected to the beings that she was pulling through?

Well, it seemed like Don and she and then eventually me, were part of a group that had planned to come here.

Ah, the idea was that…

What you might call a “mission.” So whatever Don was interested in, I have a hunch Carla would have been interested in it, because being with Don at that time, it was important. They were together for twelve years researching paranormal phenomena in general, and UFOs and channeling in particular, before I joined them.

Right. Okay. Yes, because one of Don’s books, The Secrets of the UFO…was it The Secrets of the UFO?


Yes. Okay. Bringing this forward—so we’re just going to be skirting around a few places—bringing this forward, obviously you had a relationship with Carla in the end. For many reasons, I believe, that Don actually wanted to become celibate, is that right?

He was pretty much celibate his whole life long, he was not too much interested in a lot of the traditional relationships that went on on Planet Earth. He thought Planet Earth was a rather strange place, and he didn’t partake in a lot of the rituals and having a normal relationship, with sexual relations was part of what he did not do. So that was one of the things that made it easy for Carla and me to have a relationship, because it did not interfere with Carla and Don’s relationship.

Yes, something interesting happened to me as well, is I was giving a client a reading, and he really didn’t, it wasn’t about the reading, he had come to me to tell me about the Law of One, and that I should include it in the documentary that I’m going to put together, and it was a guy called “Ken.” It stuck with me, that did, he paid for my time, but, I gave him a reading, but it was more of the case that he came to me to let me know how important it was to include it. So, sometimes we have these synchronicities that life trucks at us, don’t we? And, if it wasn’t for him, maybe I wouldn’t have done it. I’m so glad, I’m so glad I have, so glad I’m going to be including you. It’s so important.

So, yeah, okay, with your story, I believe that you listened to the wireless, listened to the radio, and there happened to be some sort of conversation about the Law of One, or there was an interview that took place on there, or something happened where it sparked your interest about this material? That’s where you got in contact with L/L?

That’s the way it turned out. I had moved to Kentucky in 1974 to live in the woods. I was part of the “back-to-the-land movement” in those days. It was the old hippies that decided that they were going to raise their own food, raise their own children, and start schools, and so forth. But I was back there, by myself, I had a piece of land in the middle of the woods in central Kentucky, and I didn’t have any power, I was off the grid, but I did have a little battery-powered radio, and I was listening one night, it was about May 30, 1978, and a local radio station was having an interview with Don and Carla, and the topic was UFOs.

So, I listened, and they weren’t just talking about the construction of the craft or how many sightings there’d been, they were talking about the philosophy, and about what the messages were that were coming from these entities that were supposedly extraterrestrials that were on these UFOs. So, I decided I wanted to try and meet them and it took me about eight months or so. I finally discovered that on the other side of the county that I lived in (we had a food-buying coop), there were some people living there that knew Don and Carla. So, I was talking to them one evening about UFOs and so forth, and I mentioned hearing this interview. And they said, “Well, we know Don and Carla, we can introduce you.” So, they took me up to Louisville and I started attending the Sunday night meditations for the next year.

Wow, okay. And the rest was history in a sense. Yeah, you and Carla fell in love, and yeah, this material was brought through. Now, obviously bringing this up to date as well, Carla passed, I believe, was it last year she passed away?

Two years ago, April.

Two years ago, April, yeah. And has there been any—have you been able to contact Carla yourself? Do you think?

I’ve had some interesting meditations that I believe there has been a contact with Carla, but I have a friend who is also able to speak with those who’ve transferred over to the other side, and I’ve gotten some messages, indirectly, from Carla that way. So, there’s been some synchronicities that have happened—things like that occur frequently, if you pay attention.

Absolutely, there always is, if you’re going to pay attention. If you’re going to pay attention there always is, and I’m sure she’s with you right now, I’m sure she is, when you need her to be, she probably wants to be as well. I know she loved you very much. So—if some people are listening to this for the first time, maybe the first type of interview they’ve heard on channeling, what is the difference then, in your understanding, between a psychic and a channeler?

Well, a psychic may be able to perform various types of what we would call “paranormal” or magical phenomena, whereas a channeler specifically focuses upon channeling. Some psychics are able to see auras, for example; some psychics are able to feel sensory impressions from people without you saying anything to them; some are able to heal and to do things like that, whereas a channeler is specifically focused upon receiving information from either discarnate entities from the Earth plane, or perhaps extraterrestrials, or inner planes guides. The channeler is more specifically focused, basically.

Yes. Absolutely. And what is the difference, do you think, between channeling your higher self, and a group of consciousness beings as the Ra was, or nature, as you’ve talked about, as well.

Well, I think that it is more common for people to be able to channel discarnate entities from the inner planes, or extraterrestrials, or something like that, than it is to contact the higher self. The higher self is really a source of information that is quite comprehensive, quite profound, and usually quite rare. Sometimes we get inclinations or information in dreams that may come from our higher self; sometimes it may come in meditation, but usually there has to be some sort of an intense desire on the part of the seeker of truth to have that kind of information in order for a contact to be made with the higher self. That’s very special.

Yes, because in this myriad of the paranormal and the channeling field, there’s many people with their own ideas of what this is. Some people out there will say, well, when anyone is channeling, all they ever really are is bringing their higher selves through, but they don’t think they’re powerful enough to be able to do that, and their not in love with themselves to empower themselves enough to say, “That is my higher self coming through,” because they’re in denial of that, but, people have come on my show to say that, and it’s who has made me think, “Well, if people think they’re bringing through what they’re bringing through, then maybe you should respect that.” But, everyone’s got their own opinion, haven’t they?

Oh yeah, sure. Free will reigns supreme. We don’t know anything for sure here, we just have inclinations and begin to grasp the nature of reality. We have to develop our will and our faith to get us through and to really travel the path of the spiritual seeker.

Yes, and again, with Carla, whenever she brought through any entities, wouldn’t she ask them in the name of Jesus Christ whether they were positive, in a sense?

That’s right. She did a lot of original research in the area of channeling throughout the 37 or so years that she channeled, and one of the things she discovered was that channeling isn’t that difficult to do—it’s difficult to do well, because there are so many entities willing to communicate, but not all of them are entities that you want to communicate with. So, you have to have some way of differentiating, and so you have to figure out what the heart of your spiritual journey is—what is it that you would live for and gladly die for, if necessary. So, you challenge in that concept, or that name, and for her it was Jesus Christ.

She was familiar with Jesus from the time of being two years old when she met Jesus in her magic garden, so she became a disciple of Jesus at a very early age. Whenever any entity wished to channel through Carla, she would say, “Do you come in the name of Jesus Christ?” She would say that three times and in the spiritual realms you cannot lie there, because when you say, “Do you come in the name of Jesus Christ,” Jesus is there with you in the metaphysical or spiritual realms, so an entity will not lie.

And do you think there was any conflict between her Christian beliefs and the information that she was bringing through?

In her mind and in her heart there was no conflict at all. She was a member of the Episcopal Church, the Church of England, and she appreciated the Church of England’s ability to have a broad point of view, a perspective, to be able to welcome into the fold those that may not be strictly traditional Christians. In other words, she was a mystic. She didn’t deal with dogma, she dealt with the more ephemeral and spiritual aspects of Christianity, or religion in general.

So, for her, there was no difficulty at all. And she was very open about speaking about what she was doing. She would have each of her bishops and priests that were in charge of the services that she was going to, look at the information that she brought through, and ask them, “Does this sound okay to you? Does this sound like something that you could support?” And to a man or woman, they said, “This sounds like something that is very positive and you go ahead and keep doing that, and keep showing us the information.” She got total support.

And from the videos I’ve seen of Carla, and we’ll be using some footage as well that is on the net to put Carla into the documentary as well, from what I’ve watched, she was a very happy, loving person, wasn’t she?

She was indeed. That was the trademark, I guess, of Carla. It didn’t matter what kind of pain her arthritis or various diseases would put her through, she kept a happy heart because she was glad to be here and glad to be alive, and really wanted to be of service however she could.

And the debilitating back problems she had toward the end of her life, she would see that as part of a soul contract as well, wouldn’t she?

Oh, definitely. She chose the limitations that arthritis provides before the incarnation because it helped her focus on her inner journey. She had the kind of personality that would love to go out into the world and do everything. But, she wanted to focus upon the inner journey, meditation, prayer, contemplation, and channeling, and arthritis gave her the opportunity to do that because it limited her from doing those other things that would have taken her away from the inner journey.

Yes, Absolutely. Thank you for that. In regards to the channeled material, between you all was there any other channeled material that you guys were sort of drawn to, or, obviously I know the Ra Material was the main one, but was there any other out there that you guys would ever say to yourselves, “Now, that stuff’s pretty good, actually”?

Well, we had a couple of favorites, I think there’s a lot of good information out there, but some of the more established and traditional—using the words “established” and “traditional” for channels is, I guess, kind of ironic, but back in the days of Jane Roberts and the Seth Material, we always thought Seth was good material. Paul Solomon was channeling what he called “The Source,” which is probably another aspect of the Creator. I thought that was good information, and then I went out to Oregon to work with Paul Shockley who was working with Cosmic Awareness, and he was channeling the Akashic Records of the Planet. We thought that was good information too.

So, there was good information out there. The thing is, though, Carla would never give a judgment about any other channel’s work, because there’s always somebody that benefits from any channel’s work, so she felt that it was up to each individual to make his or her own choices.

Such a great point you make there, Jim, such a great point. I always say that people resonate towards the channeled material that they’re at the level for, yeah? And there’s no wrong or right in that. That’s just perfect. It’s almost like they’re all at the same soul level, the same soul groups are attracted to channelers from that soul group. I’m making up words here that has no meaning in some sense but I’m trying to use a human expression to kind of box it in there a little bit. Yes, thank you so much for that. Okay, are all the original recordings still with yourselves, all the original tapes and everything else?

Yes, we have the originals. They’ve been transferred also to MP3’s and we’ve got them on our website. People can listen to them if they want to. It’s quite an interesting type of transmission because if you’re familiar with most channeling, it’s usually done at a conversational speed. But the Ra contact was so unusual because each word—was—given—very—slowly—with—perfect—enunciation—and—you—could—not—tell—where—a—sentence—ended—or—began. I never could figure out how Don could figure out what was said.

So you had to put the punctuation in there when it came to putting this in a written form?

Oh, right. And the punctuation was kind of tricky because Ra tended to use sentences with a number of clauses in them. Sometimes they were long sentences, but they did seem to use the language almost like an equation. We had never seen any other type of work that had the precision that Ra did. They seemed to be able to choose the right words for each concept they wished to impart.

Wow. Wow, wow, wow. And okay. And your website just right now as well, the website is? and all of our information is available for free for downloads.

So how is L/L Research supported, then, if it’s all free?

We have books to sell—the downloads are free—we do sell books and we’ve had so many people over the years be generous in their donations. We have a fundraiser every November to send out to all the people who’ve gotten our books over the years, and people have been so generous in sending back a donation, and it’s just the good-heartedness of other people who’ve gotten ahold of our information that keeps us going.

Beautiful. And right now, what is the core ideas for L/L right now? Are they back to what they were originally doing in the late 60’s?

We’ve continued with the channeling. Another fellow and I are sharing the channeling duties. Carla said that we were her two best students, so we’re doing our best to keep it going, and we’ve been doing that for two seasons now. We have our annual Homecoming on Labor Day weekend on the first weekend in September where we invite people that are interested in the Law of One to be here for a weekend. It’s a little unusual—we don’t present a program ourselves. People who come here have the chance to present half an hour of whatever aspect of their spiritual journey they would like to share with others, so there’s a lot of love and light shared there. We have channeling intensive workshops—we’re attempting to teach people to channel. We’re getting ready to put out a couple of books that are the result of Carla’s work over the years. She left us a huge legacy of material that has not been published yet, so we’re working with that. We’re just as busy as ever, if not more busy.

I think it’s so good what you’re doing, it’s so, so good. Okay, now so we’re not going to get into everything here because we’re limited by the human factor of time, but just, for those listening to this for the first time, if someone says, “Well, we were channeling Ra.” It’s not really like Ra sat on a chair somewhere waiting for your phone call from Carla, in a sense. Were you channeling an aspect of Ra? So, was Ra physical, and if he was physical, do you think you were channeling an aspect of his consciousness?

Well, that’s kind of an interesting question. I don’t know about what would happen… Ra was physical at one time on Planet Earth 11,000 years ago with the Egyptians, and they found at that time that what they had to say was so misperceived by the Egyptians, that it didn’t really seem like a good idea for them to be there in person. So, they were looking for a way since that time to correct some of the distortions that were given to the Law of One by the Egyptians in their misperception of what Ra had to say while they were standing right in front of them.

I think they saw the chance to make a telepathic contact with our group as being maybe a more efficient way of getting information across, because when they were in person it was so easy to mistake what they had to say, and when they are communicating by telepathic contact, they said in order to preserve our free will, they would answer questions, but they would not give us what Brad Steiger called “cosmic sermonettes,” because that had the chance of infringing upon free will, because it’s not in response to questions. So, they felt that the telepathic contact and the questions and answer format was the very best way of transferring information.

What we don’t know right now, is if she was connecting with an aspect of Ra, or whether this is a physical-like, you know, if you want to channel me now, am I going to sit here and wait for you to channel me, do you know what I mean, or is it an aspect of my consciousness because everything’s connected, that you’re actually taping into. I suppose we can’t answer all these questions, but it’s interesting, isn’t it, just to look at what is this greater reality that we’re tapping into? Does it matter, I suppose, in one sense, because it was great information which came through?

Well, there’s a couple of points here. Ra is a member of what they call a “social memory complex,” which is what all the people on Earth would be if we all shared all of our memories of all our incarnations. Now, there are 6.5 million entities in the Ra social memory complex. We were talking to one aspect, but that was just like talking to all of them, so it’s a tremendous library of information.

But, they were a narrow band contact, which meant that they wanted to talk about spiritual matters that would be the same now and 10,000 years from now. They didn’t want to talk about that which might be good today, but not good tomorrow. So, they required that we be able to asked questions in a very spiritually oriented way—that we not try to get information like, “Who’s going to win the Kentucky Derby?” “What do you think about this channel?” or, “What should I do next week in my relationship with so-and-so?” That type of information, that’s transient information that’s not always worthwhile.

Okay, so, but even from my understanding of who they were, if I was to go out—there’s the understanding maybe, that we live in a reality where there’s infinity of versions of ourselves, the soul split of two infinity versions of itself, an infinity of parallel dimensions, potentially, right, having different experiences, yeah? So, there is maybe not just one universe, when the universe is infinity, but there are other infinity dimensions as well. So, there are lots of higher collective groups to connect to, Ra is definitely one of the good ones as well, but if that helps anyone to try to understand maybe how we connect into these parallel dimensions, or whatever it may be. I don’t want to get too sidetracked though, I just want to mention that that’s a potential, because Ra did say, I’m sure he did, that this is a holographic universe.


Whatever that means, and we’re a hologram, we are an aspect of the Creator having an experience, on its behalf, to know Itself.

Right. And they said that each portion of the universe contains the Creator in full, which is a paradox, because you would think that if it’s just one little portion of the universe that it would only be one little portion of the Creator, but actually the Creator exists everywhere, in all of us, as well, in full, at all times.

Yeah, and then sometimes I think crazy thoughts like, “What’s beyond the Creator? Does the Creator have a Creator? Why does it stop there?” Do these questions help us in the present moment right now? Well, maybe not, but I think it’s nice to know, as Seth would say, there’s other frameworks of reality, not just what we think there is, or not just what we’ve been told there is. I wonder if Ra channels, or would channel entities above itself, not just lowering itself down to us, I wonder if there were other entities it would channel to get its information, or her information, or the group’s information.

Well, they spoke of having teachers themselves that they were in contact with. Ra was sixth density and the seventh density provided their teachers, and so they probably did that very thing.

Okay. Well, getting into some of the teachings as well—just before we do, actually, Don—we talk about that they kept it to very spiritual focus in the questions, and there was 106 sessions that you did?


And when you did these sessions, you had to be all together. If Carla did it on her own—it took a lot out on Carla to do these sessions, didn’t it?

Oh, it did. She would lose two to three pounds each time, so she had to eat a whole lot of extra food, just to try to keep her weight up around 85 or 90 lbs.

And again, you all had to be together for this to work?

Right. That was necessary in order to not only bring in Ra, but also to serve as a protection for Carla, because there are entities of a negative nature that would like to stop that contact, and did try throughout the entire 106 sessions, so it was necessary for the three of us to be together to provide the protection for Carla and for Ra to come through.

You know, that’s a funny one, isn’t it, these negative entities. But I think you’re right. I remember when I started channeling, one thing that came through, that just popped in, and it said, “There are negative entities out there.” Now, me being in the driver’s seat was, “That’s a load of rubbish, what rubbish am I bringing through here?”

But the more and more I think about it, I’m like, “There may be…” Sometimes we hear things we don’t want to hear, we’re not ready for, but yeah, I think there actually probably is. But just going to some of the information that was brought through as well. I believe Don was able to ask questions as well, on whether technology had been exchanged from beings out there, to some of the governments at the time, and that there was undersea bases, as well, potentially?

Oh, yeah, that was in Session No. 8. That was a mind blower for Don. He was incredulous. He couldn’t believe that the United States government and the Russian government as well had received technological information that led to the atomic bomb from Confederation or extraterrestrial sources—that we had bases on the moon, that we had bases underneath the ocean, that we had bases in the skies that were meant for potential warfare, and that we had technology that had not been made public because we wanted to keep the element of surprise on our side. So, Don went through a bit of a shock there, culture shock. If you read the material or listen to the sessions you can hear how incredulous he is.

Oh, yeah. This is mind-bending stuff isn’t it. Do you know what I mean?

Oh, yeah.

And you were there as well which is just incredible to be speaking to you. Yeah, well, there are those out there that speak about the secret space program, but I think there’s a lot of misinformation in the secret space program lectures that are out there, purposefully, lots of misinformation mixed in with some real droplets of actual information. So, I think it’s a real mine field to have to use discernment in all of this—what feels right? I think that’s what Ra would say, even with what Ra was bringing through, if it feels right, go with it, if it doesn’t, don’t use it.

Right. You just have to make those choices yourself as a seeker of truth. You have to do that every step of the way. Information like this—I used to be very interested in conspiracies and all that stuff, and I eventually decided, “Well, It’s all probably true, but it doesn’t help me on my spiritual journey, so why don’t I just concentrate on stuff that helps me on my spiritual journey and let what Ra calls ‘the planetary game’ play itself out as it will.”

Exactly. There’s never an answer in the conspiracy stuff, but conspiracy porn sells. You look at some of these conspiracy-based talk shows, they’ve got such a massive following because that’s where the majority of people are—trapped in the karmic wheel with whatever they’re doing, and we’ll get into that a bit, but no, I’m totally with you there.

So, okay, some of the spiritual teachings that came through, I think that’s important just to mention a few of those here, as well, if we can do. Obviously, this was a massive thing, the Law of One, everything is one, that what you do to another, you do to yourself. Was that the premise?

That’s it. That’s the big message. If we could understand that message, we would have a far more unified and harmonious and loving world than we do now. But it’s so difficult for people to imagine that we are all one, because we seem to be so separate. We’re all over the place. We seem to be so different. But that is just the way of the Creator expressing its—when Ra said, “The hallmark of an Infinite Creator is variety.” So, the Creator has made such a variety of people, and points of view, and so forth, and we all are like trying to travel the same road, eventually, to get back to the Creator, and eventually, we’ll make it. That’s inevitable. How we will make it, and how long it will take, that’s the question.

Well, yeah, and the positive paths and the negative paths…

Yes. The negative entities are those who are also of the Creator. When people finally come to realize that there could be such a thing as negative entities, those who would wish to serve themselves rather than serve others, then they say, “Well, how could they be part of the Creator?” But, the Creator has made allowances for total freewill to be expressed by every seeker of truth, and there seems to be two paths to the Creator—the positive path of service to others, and the negative path of service to self.

Now, at some point, the negative path won’t go any further. In the sixth density all entities, positive and negative, have to be able to see the Creator in every other entity, not only in themselves. The negative entities then, at that point, have to drop their negative polarity and become positive.

If we’re allowed to come straight down the slide again, when we cross over, we’re allowed with freewill to just come straight back again, “I’ll be the victim, you be the perpetrator,” kind of scenario, right? In multi-facet aspects of our lives, not just, all the things we’re going to go through—choosing our families and everything else, right? So, we’re allowed freely to just, wheee, there we go, back on Earth again, right? Those soul contracts that we’ve chosen with people as we come back, they’re of great value in one sense, to the greater good, to the source, right? And to ourselves.

But, then why is the source trying to wake itself up and nullify those soul contracts if, at the same time, they’re so worthwhile, but yet, we are stuck, in a sense, in not ascending—ascending, what I mean by that is waking up to find that we’re a soul having a human experience, and that we don’t need to be doing it the most difficult way that we are. So, isn’t it a bit of a paradox?

Well, yes, indeed. Carla always mentioned that when you come into a situation which seems to be a paradox, then you know you’re in some real fertile ground, spiritually, because a lot of the spiritual past is paradoxical. We have as much time as we need to learn the lessons we’ve set before ourselves. Sometimes we learn more quickly than others, sometimes in between incarnations we have to make another plan for the next incarnation to try to learn what we might have missed before.

But, the whole idea is forgiveness stops the wheel of karma. Eventually, we are able to do that. Everybody is able to do that. Like I say, sometimes it takes longer, sometimes shorter, sometimes our learning, like any learning, whatever you’re trying to learn sometimes you learn more quickly, maybe you have a knack for certain learning, sometimes it takes longer, but eventually, we do get there. We do learn what we need to learn to progress, and we all progress.

But, okay, so we all wake up on Planet Earth and the majority is awoken—750 years time from now, for example, as Ra would say, we’ve woken up. We’re all singing from the same hymn sheet almost, that we’re a soul having a human experience. We’ve still chosen to have this human experience here so that’s important, don’t get lost too much into spirituality, you’re meant to be here, but the way we come from oneness with each other, wars, and governments and everything else, it would end in one sense in the way it is now, right?

But, does the—do the souls really want that, do you think? Do the majority of people really want that? Because the majority of people seem pretty shut off to this information, or they get very heavily into religion which allows them to shut it off in a different way, at least shut themselves off to themselves, yeah, with wrongs and rights. So, is the soul thirsty enough to wake up do you think—is that what it really wants?

I do believe that each soul wants to wake up, but when we go into certain incarnations—well, for example, Ra says that a lot of the souls on Planet Earth now have been through the third density before on other planets, and did not make the graduation, so they came here in order to try again. And sometimes it just takes awhile. There’s just no other way of saying it. One of the things that is mentioned is that when you do have success at learning your lessons, it seems like that builds a momentum of success. When you have what we would call failure, or inability to learn efficiently, that also builds its momentum, so that it’s more and more difficult until you finally make a breakthrough realization within the incarnation that this is what you want to do. And like I say, sometimes it takes people more than one third-density cycle to do it.

Absolutely. But obviously from near-death experiences and all sorts of other ways that have been expressed, that when you do cross over to home or heaven or however you want to personify it, that you have awoken then. If you’ve awakened then, at that point, why have you come back to cast that spell on yourself again, the forget-me-not? I guess it must be wanting to grow the soul to know itself from forgetting itself.

When we’re in the spirit world, heaven, or whatever you want to call it, we see the unity of the creation. We see love and light everywhere, and it’s really no trick to feel unity with everyone. But, it is more difficult to polarize our consciousness there than it is if we come into this third density where we have a veil of forgetting between the conscious and subconscious mind, so that we forget all of that unity, we forget the love, we forget the light, we just give ourselves a bias. We have this bias that lets us move in a certain direction and hopefully that bias will take us to where we want to go.

When it does, that helps us to polarize our consciousness far more efficiently in this illusion—it carries much more weight in our total beingness to make that realization here. That way, we are able to progress as a soul. When we are in the heaven worlds, it isn’t the trick to realize the unity of creation. We want to progress, and progression, oddly enough, paradoxically enough, happens within this illusion where we don’t seem all to be the Creator. We don’t seem to have love and light every moment, that’s what [inaudible] every moment. When we make the realization here carries far more weight in our total beingness, than it does when we make it—it’s our steady state in the spiritual world, so it’s no trick there.

Okay, I guess it’s possible then that when we cross over, it’s very possible that there may be an infinite evolution for the soul to go on, not just like seven or ten layers, but maybe even beyond that truth there’s an infiniteness to the soul for it to carry on to something more evolved than even it is in the home sense that it goes to when it crosses over, there’s something more that the soul’s going to evolve onto that it’s even imaginable to the soul when it crosses over, maybe, right?

Right. And we can learn how to do that here in this third-density illusion, but we don’t see the truth like we do in the spirit world. We can help ourselves in the spirit world by what we do here in this illusion.

Yes, and then you say—so why do you think you’ve woken up now, compared to the masses who haven’t.

[laughs] I don’t really know. I think a lot of people have come here from elsewhere, from other densities. Ra mentioned the concept of wanderers that are from higher densities and they want to be of service. The way they grow is by going back into a world like Planet Earth, going through the forgetting again, and trying to be of service in whatever way they can, just by being there, for one thing, by bringing certain talents and sharing them with others for another thing. And, I think that some people have this nature of being the wanderer, being the spiritual vagabond, I guess you’d say. They travel from world to world trying to help out, and it’s a little more easy for them to remember because they’ve been through it before, and they’ve remembered before.

Yeah, yeah. And then you think to yourself, “Well, if this an illusion, whose dream is it, whose illusion to what, in a sense, and is this an illusion for the people who have actually woken up?” And actually the illusion is to the ones that haven’t woken up, they’re more of the illusion than what you think actually. I don’t really know what I’m trying to say, it’s like, what is this? Is this something that we can’t, there is actually more than we’ve even understood it to be.

Oh, it is. It’s an illusion, but it’s an illusion with a purpose, and that is to help us wake up. The illusion is that we’re separate, that we don’t all have this connection of love and unity between us. When we begin to discover that we do, and we discover that within the illusion it carries a lot of weight in our total beingness.

Would you be shocked, surprised, upset that actually in the not too distant future, through channeled material, there’s a higher framework that’s going to come through that’s ever been brought through before, because now we’re ready for it. Would that—how would you feel about that if there was?

Well, we hear from various sources that that’s what is going on now on Planet Earth, is that there are higher vibrations that are coming through slowly, but surely. And that Ra said that began somewhere before World War II, it was the beginning of the—the photon was beginning to accelerate its vibrational level, that we were moving from the density of the yellow ray into the fourth density of the green ray, the heart chakra, and that has continued, and will continue so that the great hope is that eventually we can, all together on Planet Earth, as a population, point our attention and our desire for growth in the same direction of being of service to others.

Yeah, because sometimes it’s a lot of the same material that comes through, said in different, more elegant ways, so that the right people that need to hear that hear it in the right way so that it helps them awaken, so there’s nothing wrong with the same material coming through in different forms because we can’t reach everyone in the same way, right? I just wonder if there’s a higher vibration—more frameworks than what we could even consider now—it’ll be the next ah-ah moment in the channeled information coming through, but, The Ra Material and material like this will always last forever because it’s timeless material in the sense that souls at this level that will always need it, and I always say The Ra Material is high level stuff.

Okay, interesting conversation this is, Jim. Yeah, all right, so what about those waiting Christ’s return though. Did Ra ever talk about that maybe Christ is going to return in the sense of a consciousness shift rather than a physical return, or did it ever mention the return of Christ?

Yeah, Don asked that once, and the response was that the one that we call Jesus, the Christ, would be speaking through various instruments or channels from time to time, but others of its kind and its vibration would actually be returning to help with what you could call the “graduation,” or the “harvest,” or the “ascension,” into the fourth density of love and understanding. So, the Christ Consciousness will definitely return. Jesus, himself, will probably be a source of channeled material. I believe there are various entities that say they have channeled Jesus.

Right. Yes, there are people that channel Jesus as we speak now. With this sense of Ra coming through, obviously Ra—has Ra ever lived a human life before, do you know?

Well they lived what we would call a human life when they were on Venus. Their third density corresponds to ours, but they said they had a far more harmonious type of environment and culture—they were more interested in philosophical matters and not quite so much interested in financial or gaining things for the self, or war and so forth. But, yeah, they went through the same thing that we’re going through. They were just a little bit more effective in learning their lessons.

Right. Did he ever talk about Disclosure, are we consciously at the right level for Disclosure?

Well, Disclosure, as I believe you’re speaking of it, is something that I think is going to be an individual type of thing, or in small groups. Whether there will be a mass disclosure, I really don’t know, but I think that there are disclosures of a magnificent variety that are occurring for individuals in small groups as we speak, and have been for some time.

Yes. I’m so glad the way that you’ve come across in this interview because you’ve not—some people that are into The Law of One will say that all other channeled material is nowhere near, or is not good, or this is the only good one, where you’re saying, even the guy that scribed it is saying, they’ve all got their purpose, and they’ve all got their own quality, in a sense, for who they’re going to resonate with, and I really appreciate the way you’ve come on and discussed it as well, I really do. Much love to you for doing that, because a lot of people that do this channeling, they dedicate their lives to it just to help people.

Moving that dedication in life to helping people, let’s just reiterate this one more time, as well, with the Ra teachings, that what if someone says, “Right, okay, I’m not going to put others first. Tell you what, I’m going to put myself first. By putting myself first, I feel I’m putting others first, because if I don’t put myself first, how can I put anyone else first”, versus, someone else that says, “Well, I think I should put others first, then I’m actually putting myself first.”

Yeah, well, we come again to paradoxes. You do have to learn how to love yourself. It’s not really easy to love other people unless you can feel a love for yourself, so I would agree with that. But, how you express that love for others or yourself is, I think, the important point.

And that happens in the daily round of activities. Maybe you meet somebody on the street, they have no money, they’re begging for money, maybe you give them a dollar or two. You have a sandwich to share with somebody, you break the sandwich in half—do you take the bigger half or do you take the smaller half. Somebody wants to get in front of you in line at the grocery store, do you block them out so they can’t get in line or do you say, “Sure, go ahead,” and break into a conversation with them and have a new friend. There’s all kinds of ways of relating to people and showing whether you really are of service to others or not. And, it all works better for you, as a service-to-others person, if you also are able to love yourself. And that’s a path that each person travels, and it’s a lesson that takes a while to learn. It took me quite a while.

Well, you’re doing a good job, I think, don’t worry. Just going back to the whole Disclosure thing, for me, personally, if there was an E.T. that, if some sort of beings were going to make mass contact, I think the majority of people would look up to them as a god, and all their power would be taken away. I don’t think any spiritually evolved being like that would ever come purposely for that not to happen, yeah, because they want you to be in power, not to give the power away.

Right, right. In fact, there’s a council of spiritual beings that has the purpose of making sure that there’s always an equal opportunity for folks of a higher vibration to come to those on Earth that are in need, maybe through dreams, maybe through inspiration, and so forth, but not in a way you could prove to anyone else, because that would take away your ability to make your own choices. So, yeah, it does come down to finally what you think about your own journey, and what you think about any information that you come across. All information has value to somebody.

Yes. And do you think anyone else is—do you think Ra will ever come through anyone else? Maybe not as the name “Ra,” but the collective group will come through anyone else?

We would hope so, but as far as we can tell, even though there have been some people saying that they believe they are channeling Ra, we haven’t met anybody that meets the basic pre-conditions. And those are: there has to be three people in the group, the one serving as instrument has to use the type of trance where they leave their body, and it has to be question and answer format. If a group could meet those three qualifications, I would say they’ve got ahold of Ra. 2

Interesting, interesting, interesting. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Is there anything that you might like to add to this interview as well, Jim?


Not really. I’m good at answering questions. I don’t know what I could add.

Okay, let me just say that when you go into [your] website, there’s all the sessions on there, and there’s even, I found sex as well, which I found, politics, cosmology, there’s loads, right, but I found the sex one really interesting, actually, the sexual magic and everything else that it kind of refers to. Some people may say, “Well, how’s that helping us spiritually?” Well, I think it is because we wouldn’t be here otherwise as a human species. [laughs] And I think there’s a real misuse of sex as well in some respects, and our understanding of it.

Oh, definitely. That’s been one of the facets of the interaction between people that’s been so distorted over the years by adversarial relationships and by our bellicosity—we just haven’t figured out how to share any kind of energy with each other, including sexual energy. But, there are all kinds of energies that we can share that are very beneficial, including the sexual energy exchanges. And that’s something we still have to learn, as a society that is. I think a lot of individuals already know this.

I think so, I think so, and talking about learning things like this and evolving, what did Ra say in the sense of the times that we live in now maybe, about the changes, I mean maybe this isn’t the most biggest changes we’re ever going to see—we think it is right now, since 2012. This is the shift, right? You see in politics right now, you see it in everything. Did he mention, or did they mention the times now?

They mentioned it, at this particular point that we would be moving into a situation where we would be so fully into the green ray that the planet itself would be in green ray. But, there would be so many different combinations of orange, yellow and green among the population on the planet, that there would be a lot of confusion, in that that confusion would restrict some people from learning what they needed to learn, but those who really needed to learn a certain lesson to become a more spiritually-oriented entity would have those opportunities presented to them, that no matter how much confusion existed on the planet in the cultures, there would still always be a way for the spiritual seeker of truth to find the way back home.

And, the paradox of a soul having agreed to be asleep, in a sense, to not wake up to that is a soul having a human experience because of the group around it, that it’s affecting as well, the people around it, by staying asleep, right? What does a soul’s, a person’s life look like from a person that’s awakened, having this human experience here, to someone that’s not awakened having this human experience here?

Well, you look—there’s two different paths you can travel as far as how you live your life on Planet Earth, I think, and one of them includes being spiritually awake and realizing that everything that we go through in our daily round of activities, has a relationship to our spiritual journey. Now, another way of looking at life is the one that is not conscious of the spiritual journey, and looks at the daily round of activities as important for getting more money, more position, more power, more status. So, either we’re looking at the reason for our being here as a spiritual reason, or a mundane reason, and eventually people who only look at the mundane world need to find out that there’s more to it than that, and that’s the process of awakening that everybody is beginning to make, I believe, now. There’s more opportunity to make that choice and to find out that that is part of your reality too.

Yeah. So, what you’re saying in a sense—I’m going to personify your words, and tell me if I’m wrong, right? You’re not saying it completely makes your life any easier or happier in one sense, right, because you’re here having a human experience and you’re going to be tested in a sense, boot camp, hello, right? But it does let you see and make things make sense from a different perspective. It helps you to make sense. But then, will science and spirituality, do you think, in the future, maybe it is now, become a bit more integrated, a bit more as one?

Oh, definitely. If you look at the questions that Don asked—he was a scientist. And he was able to come up with some of the answers that I think would be the foundation for a new science. In fact, he proposed the Larsonian Reciprocal Theory was probably the most advanced theory on the planet at the time, and Ra agreed. So, there was a match, and a meshing of both the science and the spiritual realities so that basically they become one.

Absolutely. We’re almost at the end of this interview. Thank you so much for bearing with us so far—we’re well over time right now. And when it comes to the Law of Attraction—because some people may be listening and have gotten this far, and they’re like, “Yeah, but you know, I do want that money. I do want that new house. If someone that’s kind of a nasty person can go into the vortex and get the money, well, I’ve been a good person, why can’t I? Why can’t I enjoy creating my own reality?” So what would Ra say about creating your own reality when it comes to money as well.

Well, that’s what we do. We create our reality around the concepts that we feel are the most important. And we give ourselves, before the incarnation certain directions that we hope to go in, we put a certain charge under that so that our subconscious mind will see catalyst coming our way, and interpret it in a spiritual sense rather than a worldly sense, so we always have the chance of doing that. It’s not predestination, but it’s a bias towards spiritual realization, and that is always available. Everybody has presented him or herself with numerous chances to see the world in a different way. For many of the chances they may do just what you said here, hypothetically: “Well, why shouldn’t I go in there and get my money too?” But, at some point something will happen to them that will give them a chance to look at the whole situation in a different light, and then the light will come on, and they will see things much differently.

Right. That’s interesting. What you’re saying there is subconsciously, pre- in the inner life, you’ve chosen certain points for windows to open up in a sense, that you can say “yes,” or “no” to. “Yes, I’ll do that business deal with you. Yes, let’s go into partnership, yes or no, or let me buy that winning lottery ticket,” whatever it may be, that new job that’s going to get… Okay, and because you have freewill you can accept it or not, nothing is forced upon you, even though you’ve chosen that particular end point or that particular window that’s come into your life. Maybe, even, you can choose windows when you want to leave as well, and you can choose not to or you can choose to stay.

That’s right.

There’s other teachers out there like Esther Hicks and they teach the Law of Abraham, the collective group, they teach the Law of Attraction in a sense, but, yeah, most times the groups like Hicks, it is really about improving the inner world, and then the things you think you really want actually are not what you really want sometimes, and actually, but then when you do want to create wealth, it comes from a completely different space because it’s more easy to do because you’ve been more spiritually awakened by being in the presence of some of that awakening material. I get what you mean a little bit, I think. Yeah, you’ve been studying this all your life so you’ve got a good handle on it. How has it changed your life, this material?

Well, it showed me that as a conscious being that I am more free than I think I am; that I can do basically whatever I want to do and the ability to focus your own consciousness and your energies is a wonderful gift; that you can be of service to others if you wish to be; that you can be as free in learning what you want to learn as you wish to be; that life is basically full of love and there’s love in every moment and if you look for it you will find it.

What we judge as wrong or right sometimes when we cross over, it was just a human right or wrong, wasn’t it? It really wasn’t what we thought it was. So, you have to forgive your past as well, don’t you?

Oh, sure. Forgiveness works especially for the self. You have to be able to forgive yourself as well as forgiving others. Forgiveness stops the wheel of karma for everybody.

Absolutely. Well, Jim, what would you say—as the final question—what would you say is the most important message of your work right now?

That we are really all one; that everything we do affects everyone else on the planet, so if you have a chance to be kind to another soul, do it, you’re going to help everybody out. Remember there is love in every moment, and if you can’t find it, put yours in it.

Absolutely. Well, please, guys, please, please do check out L/L Research, and if you can, donate towards them as well if you find the work inspiring like I have, then please help them out as well. It’s just fantastic to have you on. And Jim, I just want to say thank you so, so, much for joining us today.

My pleasure.

Well, we’ve come to an end on today’s show, don’t forget that you can listen and watch all our past interviews on the Moore Show’s official youtube channel. Remember to subscribe to our youtube channel for new daily shows. You may also find out more on all past and upcoming guests by going to, and do like us on Facebook and Twitter for the latest updates. So, until next time, be safe.

  1. While Don technically had a PhD, it was not from an accredited school. According to Carla, he got the diploma so that he would no longer have to correct people who called him “doctor.” Don had Masters degrees in Engineering and Mechanical Engineering, and taught physics at Speed Scientific School. 

  2. Ra highlighted other even more fundamental preconditions, including the harmony of the group and the purity of the instrument’s dedication to service. Moreover, #71.21 indicates that there was a very fine-tuned compatibility between this particular group and those of Ra that enabled the connection:

    “Consider the process of one who sees the spectrograph of some complex of elements. It is a complex paint sample, let us say for ease of description. We of Ra knew the needed elements for communication which had any chance of enduring. We compared our color chip to many individuals and groups over a long span of your time. Your spectrograph matches our sample.”