Hello, and welcome to Lighten Up. I am your host Suzanne Ross, and I am so excited to be back with Jim McCarty who is the surviving member of the threesome who brought in the Ra material for the Law of One series back in the early 1980s. And, I’m just so grateful to Jim for spending this time with us to help us learn more about the Law of One and the Ra material. Thanks so much for joining us.

Oh, Suzanne, thanks for having me. It’s a real pleasure to be here.

And this is part two of our interview series. And for this part, we are going to focus on the Law of One. We’re also going to focus on how a group like Ra comes through for us in answer to humanity’s call. And then we’re going to talk about the harvest. What that means and how we can prepare for that. So, why don’t we start by talking a little bit more about how your group attracted Ra, group Ra. What they are, who they are, where they’re coming from and how they answer our call.

Okay, the beginning was in 1962 when Don first conducted his experiment to see if he could reproduce what he heard about other groups having telepathic contact with supposed extraterrestrial beings. Out of that experiment was borne the Louisville group. And they began receiving what was called the introductory type of information.

Ra belongs to what’s called the Confederation of Planets in the service of the Infinite Creator. And there are a number, I think, at least 500 different planetary consciousness complexes like Ra that belong to the Confederation. So, in the beginning we had communications from fourth density entities Hatonn and Laitos. And then a little later on, when Carla learned to channel in 1974, which is about 12 years later, we began to get some intermediate information, or Don and Carla did. I wasn’t with them yet. They got intermediate information from entities called Latwii, and Oxal and a few others that over the years a number of entities communicated. So, they had gone through, I guess you would say, the process of becoming familiar with the philosophy of the Confederation which described the nature of creation being a unity, that one creator made it all. That love was the power that made it all. And, light was what it was all made out of. If they were able to get a hold of this information and make sense of it in their own lives and put it to practice, then they would make themselves available to what some people would call advanced information, or further information along that line.

That’s what occurred when I joined them in 1980, the end of 1980. Three weeks later, on January 15, 1981, the Ra contact started. And Ra mentioned in the very first session that they had information to offer that was, as I said, always and ever the same, although some people might consider it more advanced. It was speaking of the same Creator, the same forces of love and light. And it was the…apparently when the three of us decided to get together we kind of formed a critical mass that was necessary for those of Ra to be able to contact our group. And they said that the most important thing that helped them to be able to contact us was the harmony that we had between us; the love we had for each other. And, that was something that was very much a blessing. We didn’t have to work for it. It was just there. It seemed like we had been old friends from eons ago and we had just come together again. Which could be what happened, but it’s what it felt like.

Ra said the other factor that helped them to be able to speak through our group was Carla’s great desire to serve the Creator, especially through communication and, most especially, through channeling. So those two factors, our harmony and her purity of seeking, and I guess you’d also had to say that about 19 years worth of experience with the introductory and intermediate information was what allowed those of Ra to speak to our group.

I understand that groups like that are actually responding to a call. It’s almost as if they hear us calling them. And they talk about sorrow. Can you expand on that, please?

Yes, they in fact describe themselves as the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow. Because whenever there’s a call from a planet like Earth it usually comes in the form of sorrow, that entities on the planet really want to be able to grow spiritually, but there’s some problem. There’s a difficulty there that those that are perhaps a little more advanced on the path and willing to lend a hand can actually help with.

Ra said that they were aware of this calling for thousands of years. Their experience with the Egyptians began 18,000 years ago when they were aware that the Egyptians were wanting to know about the Law of One. But, they didn’t land then. They did land 11,000 years ago. And that didn’t go terribly well. They said that for every word they spoke, there were 30 misperceptions of the words. So, they felt that there was some distortion that was being made into the Law of One that they felt responsible for. They looked for other chances to speak and to aid the planet.

That apparently came about 3,500 years ago with the 18th dynasty of the Egyptians. Akhenaton, was able to channel himself. He was in contact with Ra. And he was able to channel those messages. And, for awhile, he decreed the Law of One as the official religion of Egypt. But, that was only for his lifetime. Once he had passed on into larger life, the priests and the people of that era quickly went back to the worship of many gods. So, once again, Ra was left in the position of trying to figure out how to answer this call on Earth for the Law of One.

So for a great many years, thousands of years, they existed within the inner planes of planet Earth and were able only to make contact with individuals in usually the dream state, or it might be in meditative states when people get a intuition or a hunch. They could be inspirational in that way to help people to discover why they were here and to become teachers and students as well. And, then, when our group got together they found the conditions they’ve been looking for, for awhile to once again be able to make a telepathic contact and to speak the Law of One.

So, in general, they have been answering a call that had been issuing from planet Earth for thousands of years. The planet is apparently peopled by populations that have come from other third-density planets who’ve gone through their graduation and their harvest. And not everybody has been able to make that harvest. They weren’t able to be pure enough in their love and service to others. And they needed to repeat the cycle, and they’ve come to Earth to do that. So, there’s an especial call on Earth for the Law of One and for the other distortions, as Ra said, the Law of Love and the Law of Light, Love and Wisdom. So, this call his been issuing from Earth for thousands of years. And Ra was very happy as were we in 1981 to be able to establish the contact.

You mentioned that they exist within the inner planes of Earth. Can you expand on that?

Well, the inner planes are what Ra called time/space or the metaphysical realm, the invisible realm. Our third density is the only realm that does not have the clear seeing of everything that is going on. If we could remove that veil of forgetting between our conscious and subconscious minds we would clearly see these entities around us.

There is a no shortage of experiences, of realties, of entities such as Ra that exist on the inner planes. The inner planes aren’t necessarily so much inside the Earth as they are invisible to us. They exist in a realm that is, you might say, the true realm. All entities that go from our Earth through the death process go to what we might call the inner planes, or time/space, or the metaphysical realms, the invisible realms, those are all words to describe the same place. When we leave this life and go back to our spiritual homes and review our incarnations and decide what we want to do for future incarnations in the way of learning and serving, we go back to those inner planes where Ra is now. There are various levels to the inner planes so that our first density, second, third, fourth and fifth all the way through the eight density are represented there. Some of those planes are in potentiation. We as now third density beings are not able to access them all, but those of Ra can access those through the sixth density. The inner planes are, what you might call, the real life. That’s where there is no illusion of separation. There’s no possibility of separation. There is no disharmony. There is no possibility of disharmony. It’s here within the third density where all that exists as means by which we learn how to be harmonious and how to be unified and how to love each other.

That so beautifully expressed. Thank you for that, Jim. Now in your books, Ra answers to the condition that third density is transitioning into fourth density on our planet, and that it actually started 30 years ago. But there was an inconvenience in making that transition that had to do with the harmony on the planet. Can you talk to that more?

Well, that 30 years ago was 30 years previous to 1981. So, that went back to 1945. The harvest has been going on for quite some time. And some of the inconvenience, well, World War II ended with the dropping of atomic bombs. And those are very destructive to the planet and to the entities that were within the blast radius, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Ra mentioned how it was necessary at that time for them to help to heal those entities because the blast from the atomic bombs was so powerful it could disarrange the mind/body/spirit complex so that it is possible that if no one entered to help them with their healing that they would be disassembled, they would—it would be a loss to the Creator of part of the Creator. Ra was able to help the healing of those entities by calling upon the higher planes and bringing down the healing energies that would allow their mind/body/spirit complexes to remain unified.

There has been a great deal of disharmony on this planet for thousands of years. And this harvest has been going on, however, for a great deal of time. And they mentioned that, that harvest would very likely occur somewhere around the year 2011, but that was an approximation. They said they have a difficult time trying to calibrate exactly in the time/space or the real nature of reality of where this is going to happen because the people of our planet are so volatile in their choice-making, in governments, in individuals, various groups around the world. There is a lot of potential for disharmony. So, Ra said, they could not tell exactly how things were going to turn out, but somewhere around this time we’re living in right now would be the time during which not only would the planet be fourth density, which it is now—our planet earth is a fourth density planet now—but the population would have a chance to make that choice to grasp the needle, as they said, and point it in one direction as dissected and separate as we seem to be.

There is still the possibility that we could all take the chance and the choice to point the needle in one direction, and decide to seek in love and light the one Creator that exists in all things. This is something that we’ve heard through various others sources is occurring now, that the so-called portals of ascension are all over the planet much like a grid network and that the entities are now going through the death process on our planet are being able to find their way to these portals. And that entities of the light realm are looking upon this as a almost like a web of light being woven around the Earth as these entities make it through the portals and then begin to lend their light and love to others that are remaining here on the Earth who are potentially able to make that same choice when they go through the death process.

Let’s talk more about exactly what you mean by harvest, and do beings actually have to go through the death process of dropping their body in order to make that shift into the fourth density?

No, that’s the most usual way of doing it because it’s available to everybody when they go through the death process. It’s sort of like a default setting. If you haven’t made it on your own individually beforehand, then you’ve got that to look forward to as the one final chance.

As you travel your spiritual path there are all kinds of lessons you can learn. And we always try to move our energies higher and higher up the energy centers. The entities in India have long known about the Kundalini. The Kundalini experience is a description of how the intelligent energy that comes through us every day from the sun begins at the red ray and goes into the orange and the yellow, and, if it’s unblocked, it then can go to the green, the heart. That’s the area of the availability for harvest. If we’re able to love with the whole heart at least 51% of the time in all of our thoughts, our words and our actions, then we make ourselves available for harvest as we go through the death process, but now as we’re still here on this earth as conscious seekers of truth, we can continue working to raise that energy of the Kundalini higher to the blue ray at the throat chakra, to communication and inspiration. And we can raise it higher into the indigo ray where our very beingness as the Creator resides.

Ra says that each of us contains the one Creator, in fact, the Creator is everywhere. And we have that Creator within every portion of our body. Most specifically, if we can raise the energy in the chakras or the energy centers to the indigo ray, then we can make contact with the Creator existing in the violet ray. So that this is the contact Ra said is also with what you might call intelligent infinity. That’s a very neutral term that they use to describe the Creator. It’s the same thing though. So, we can as conscious beings, while we’re right here on planet Earth, through our meditation practice, through our learning how to love and be of service to others, through whatever our particular spiritual path has been which we’ve chosen prior to the incarnation, we can make that ascension while we are here in the third density. There are entities that are doing that. There are two ways to do it. Consciously while you are here alive as a third density being, and as you go through the death process and you walk the steps of light. And the light then begins to gauge your harvestability by examining your energy centers. You walk as far as you can. And if you make it through the fourth density, then there you are.

So when did Mother Earth make her transition into a fourth density planet?

Ra suggested that, that transition was beginning about the time they made first contact with us in the early eighties. That it was continuing on and by the time that 2011 got here it could successfully predict that the planet itself would be fourth density by then. What they could not predict was whether the population, various individuals and social complexes here, would be fourth density or not because it seems like there is a lot of positive energy all over the planet, but there is also a lot of energy that’s confused. There’s very little negative energy as much negativity as it seems there is on the planet, there’s very little negative harvest. There aren’t enough entities of the negative nature really to consider. There is a lot of in between where choices haven’t been made. And we have a lot of confusion.

Those areas of confusion are where we really need to focus our work and our energies so that this planet itself can become a fourth density planet with its population. Ra said that after the fourth density has been fully established that this planet will be a positive fourth density planet. And that there are entities here now who have come from other third density planets and they have successfully gone through their graduation and the Earth is going to be their new home, but they’re here early to help us with our graduation. Because it’s a hard birth, it’s a hard labor we’re going through for Mother Earth to give birth to this new fourth density population.

So, what [will] the graduation look like, Jim? It sounds like people on planet Earth, aside from the visitors who are coming in as fourth density, people on planet earth who have graduated into the fourth density, what does that look like to graduate, and are you saying that they’re living among us?

There are entities here now that have both the third density body, the yellow ray activated, as we all do, but they also have the fourth density body, the green ray activated too. But, they also go through the forgetting process so they have to remember why they’re here. There’s a challenge for them too. But, they are here to help and just their being here as well as all these wanderers that are here from all over the galaxy, just their being here lightens the vibration to the planet. They can also help by discovering that they are from elsewhere, that they have a mission here, and that they have specific things they can do with their being just the first thing, so they have various talents.

When people go through this graduation process as they go through what we call the death process, they are immediately transferred from their…we have the yellow ray activated now so our yellow ray body is what we have this physical body, but when we go through the death process we immediately go to our indigo ray body, form maker body, and this is the body of light. It’s a very powerful body. It’s, as we say, the form maker [and] can make whatever form that we need in whatever density will be our final home. Each entity then goes to the form-maker body, the indigo ray, and walks these stairs of light or the steps of light. This light is provided by those entities of that are of the Octave. They are of the eighth density. And they come to provide this light as a means of helping our third density graduation to gauge or measure the harvestability, and that’s done by looking at the energy centers. This light, then, is able to examine the energy centers and see where there have been lessons that have been learned in the red ray; in the orange ray dealing with others selves one to one; in the yellow ray, dealing with other selves in groups; then in the green ray of universal love for all beings everywhere and all things everywhere because it is seen that it is the Creator…everything is the Creator. This light that comes from these, they’re called Guardians, it comes from the Guardians and this light is able to allow the entity that has just been in third density, has gone through the death process, to walk these steps. And the entity walks until the light becomes too glaring. When it becomes too glaring, that means the energy centers are no longer able to process any stronger light. So, the entity steps aside. And where it steps aside is either third density or fourth density. And for most entities at this time, it’s the fourth density. So, that’s the way the Guardians provide the light.

There are also along the edges of this light members of the Confederation who are in the wings, you might say, to be sure that each entity is able to progress as far as possible [and] that they do not stumble or halt before they reach their full potential. If anybody stumbles or falls, then the Confederation sets them aright so they can continue into the light.

Then there’s a third group of entities there and Ra says these are what might be called angelic. They include our higher self or maybe guides that we’ve had throughout our incarnations. They might include some members of our spiritual family. Or, other friends from the inner planes of Earth who have already made graduation and who have been attracted to a certain entity because of the way they were seeking and serving here in third density.

There are a great number of entities that support this graduation process. So, it’s not something that you’re just doing on your own. There’s a great heavenly choir there, you might say, singing the hallelujahs as you’re marching through the light.

That’s beautiful, and something to look forward to.

Oh, indeed.

Yes. So, these people that are passing on out of their physical bodies and they’re graduating into the fourth density, can they then come back to Earth at this time and reincarnate as a fourth density being here on the planet?

That’s something that would be hard to say because, as Ra said, it’s hard to say how long…the space/time is our illusion here where space has the predominance over time. That’s the time that Ra says is volatile. That depends upon the amount and types of choices that various individuals and groups and nations make here. It is more likely that rather than coming back now that these entities that have made the graduation would lend their light and services in other ways. It might not be perceived by us visually, but they might be here to help us out in way of inspiring us with hunches, with intuitions, with guidance, with helping us cross paths with certain books or information or people so that they can help us in this way. In that way, they would be able to be of service and not have to incarnate when there might not be time for an incarnation. That is just something we don’t know.

Hmmm. And would they have other options other than those related to planet Earth?

Entities of that nature who are able to go through the graduation can go on if they wish to, but Ra said entities that are positively oriented seldom go on until their brothers and sisters can go with them. Entities of a negative nature who are only in it for themselves always go on.


They use their ability to welcome and enjoy the light, to progress on to some other fourth density negative planet where they will fight for the ability to be at the top of the pyramid. But, they’ll probably have to start at the bottom and learn how to serve a master.

Now, what is it going to look like for us, Jim, when we make this shift from a third density social complex into a fourth density social memory complex? Have I got that terminology correct?

Right, right. Yeah. That was new terminology for us. Ra gave us so many concepts and words that were new to us, but what we have on the planet right now are social complexes. A group of people that relate to each other in a social fashion, and they do not have access to anything other than their conscious minds and their conscious memories and their conscious abilities. But, when our planetary population is able to go through the harvest, then we will form what’s called a social memory complex. If you look at the entire planet and its Akashic Records, the records of every life and every experience and every life ever lived on planet Earth, it’s a huge library of information. That is what will be available to every entity in the social memory complex. This huge library of information will then become social memory. That’s what it is. Everybody’s memory will be available to everybody else. So that when they decide that they wish to be of service as a group they’ll have this great memory source to call upon to help them in their service.

So many people have spoken about this shift taking place and many people refer to it as an ascension. And some people say it’ll happen in the snap of a finger, the blink of an eye and suddenly this third dimensional reality will be something totally different. Can you speak to that?

For the people that it happens to, that’s exactly what’ll happen. But, it’s been happening for quite awhile so it’s not something that happens for everybody in the blink of an eye. But for the person for whom it is happening, it does seem like it’s a blink of an eye. Because one moment you’re here thinking that you’re going to be living your life as you have lived it up to this point, and then there’s an opportunity presented to you that seems to be totally outside of the box, shall we say, something that you hadn’t depended upon or hadn’t thought about. Ra says that this moment of enlightenment is something that one cannot really predict, but it is available to everyone according to how they seek on their own journey of seeking; how they serve other people; how they’re able to open their hearts and give love to everyone and everything, and be able to receive it as well. There needs to be balance in all of these things. So, we can aid that process by the way we seek and the way we seek to serve others and the way we give our love and the way we see the creation around us.

That sounds like an individual perception of a higher reality. What about the entire population of the planet shifting into the fourth dimensional or fourth density state of being?

That’s something that’s, for me, it’s just subject to possibilities and conjecture because Ra has mentioned that it is possible in one fine strong moment of inspiration for the entire population to choose the positive polarity. Now, how exactly that can come about and what it would be like, I really don’t know. We see instances in the Bible where it mentioned that one person would be working the field and the other would be taken and so forth. I don’t know if that’s the way it’s going to happen or not. But, we do know that there is something of that nature that can happen.

If you’re familiar with an author by the name of Charles Eisenstein and the book he’s written “The More Beautiful World That Our Hearts Know Is Possible”, he’s talking about this very thing. He’s talking about how the old story of the world of being one of separation, of how science is going to elevate us and solve all of our problems for us is no longer working. It never did work. It’s only obvious now that it’s not working. We need a new story—a new story of the people; a story of inter-being. How everyone affects everyone else. Any act of kindness you give to any soul is felt throughout the planet. And all over the planet there are these acts of kindness and of love and of realization and consciousness occurring. And that this new story is slowly coming to pass. I think that there is something like that going on now. That if we keep our hearts open and our minds open and keep looking through the lens of love to the world around us, we can be more and more a part of that story and help it to happen. How exactly, when exactly that will happen, well, I don’t know. I don’t know if anybody knows. But all I do know is if we keep moving in that direction it can happen.

It sounds like if an individual 51% of the time acts and thinks and speaks from their heart, that they have the opportunity to make that shift. I wonder if the collective consciousness of 51% of the collective consciousness were to think and act and speak from their heart if that’s what it would take to make a shift for our whole consensus reality?

Well you know it could very well be. Again, I don’t know. There’s this…in psychology there’s this theory called the hundredth monkey effect where enough entities, in this case it was monkeys, learn how to wash their food on islands that were separate in the Pacific. Then, at some point, the monkeys on the other island who had no physical contact with the monkeys on the island knew how to do this washing of food, they learned it too. So, there’s something in all species that allows kind of like a species telepathy to consensus action. I know that human beings are part of that too. For right now, it’s just a great mystery. We can begin solving it just by continuing to open our hearts and loving all around us.

Yes, that does seem like the best path. Let’s talk more about that. How can individuals that are seeking to ascend and progress of their evolutionary journey, what are some of the ways that they can go about doing that?

Well, the ray that…Don asked what is the best way to achieve harvest? And Ra said it was to seek the heart of being. And the heart of one’s being, of course, is the Creator. So, seeking the Creator and serving the Creator. Ra suggested that each day that we go through our daily round of activities we come face to face with the Creator wherever we are because each person we face there is the Creator. Each opportunity to be of service or to lend a hand or to simply give a smile or to do whatever is required at that moment. To be aware of what every moment is presenting you with opportunities to be of service, with opportunities to love, with opportunities to be more than you’ve been before in that way.

Then I think there’s other ways we can support that when we’re out in the world, when we’re by ourselves and in our meditations. We can seek in the meditation to ask for assistance from our guides, from angelic forces, from the Creator, from whatever saint or being that has meaning for you if it’s Jesus or Buddha or Lao-tzu, whoever. Ask for assistance to open up to it because it’s there. It’s ready to work for you and with you and through you. In our meditations, we can call for assistance.

In our dream work, we can look for the dreams to give us special messages. We can ask our subconscious mind to help us with our dreams so that we can see more things that are available to us. Dreams can be very powerful way to getting to the subconscious mind and the information there.

We can begin keeping journals to write about our spiritual journey, what it has provided us so far as ways to being of service others. How we can do more in that regard, by keeping a journal we’re sort of offering the opportunity to both our conscious and subconscious minds to do what you might call automatic writing to begin coming through with information from a deeper level of our subconscious mind or maybe even from other entities that are our guides that we can open ourselves to such a degree that these types of communication can occur.

I would say that it is basically being able and willing to seek the Creator with everything you do, with every fiber of your being, each moment of each day because there is nothing but the Creator around you. Ra said each moment contains love. That is the great mystery and challenge of this third density to find the love in the moment. And it you can’t find the love in the moment, maybe you need to put your love in the moment. Basically, we need to keep looking through the lens of love at everything around us and finding the Creator there and giving praise and thanksgiving for the Creator that we find wherever we find the Creator.

So beautiful, Jim, thank you for that. You’re so inspiring and empowering. And, speaking of that, I have to share with the audience what a positive impact the Law of One series had on my life and how fascinated I was by the first book, the Ra Material, and pictures of you three pulling in through the information of Ra. I first started reading them in 2008 or 2009 and I understand it’s much easier at this time to pull through channel the information than it was then. I don’t know if that’s necessarily true, but I figured if beings could be channeled by other people why couldn’t I do that myself? So, I was inspired to put pen to paper and see if could maybe do some automatic writing. The first thing that came through for me as I put pen to paper in little tiny squiggly lines was written out ‘Ra’.

Oh, really?

Yes, and then ‘love’ and then ‘unity’ and then ‘body, mind and spirit’ and ‘integrate’. It came across on six different pieces of 8-1/2 by 11 paper and I actually shared that with Carla a few years ago when I had that opportunity to interview her. She was very interested to see what that automatic writing looked like. So, I scanned it and emailed it to her cause she just thought that would be fun to see. [Inaudible] automatic writing came through. And then I decided that was very laborious because it was just little tiny squiggles on one piece of paper [to] come up with one word. I thought that’s not a very effective way to get a lot of information. I was guided to use voice recognition software. In fact, I was hearing in my meditations as I attempted to contact group Ra and communicate with them that I was hearing this word ‘dragon’ coming through. What they were trying to convey to me was this Dragon naturally speaking voice recognition software.


So I could have my computer on and open, and I could then pull information through speaking aloud and the computer would type it for me.


Mind you, I had to go back and try to make sense of it. I didn’t have an individual that would sit and take notes for me. I figured if I recorded it that would be awful laborious to try to go back and type what I recorded. That made so much sense, and I was able to ask profound questions. I was very interested in the true nature of reality and the subatomic world of energy and quantum physics. I was able to ask some very complex questions about what is the purpose of gravity waves, for instance. This information would just come through.


For maybe thirty minutes and it would answer all of the questions that I had in my mind. And I was able to pull through and create a book called Rhiza (sp?).

Oh yeah?

It’s like a 500 page book. I haven’t published it yet. Yeah, it contained a lot of information I was able to bring through by channeling.

That’s pretty amazing. That’s beautiful.

Yes, well I wanted let you know that your books were the inspiration for that being able to have that confidence that maybe I could, myself, channel and have some of my own questions answered. And then share them because in the book you guys really emphasized teach/learn and learn/teach and that what you learn if you teach it to others you’re really serving for a higher purpose. And serving, I really feel called to serve others and to teach some of these more advanced concepts about who we are and why we’re here and what we’re here to do and where we’re going all inspired by your books really. I find that the channeled information is really this higher perspective that can really benefit us and help us progress on our evolutionary journey.

It is indeed. Did you get any idea of who might be contacting you? Do you think it might have been a guide of yours? Or do you know?

Well, as when I first tried my hand at channeling, Ra came through. But then later, ascended master Saint Germaine made himself very clear that he was present. And I was called…I feel like I’m drawn to particular books that suddenly appear for me. Whether I’m at a library and they seem to just push themselves out at me, or someone comes and says you have to read this book. So, “Unveiled Mysteries” by Godfrey Ray King became a present to me. And some people that I was meditating with kept saying you have to read these books by Godfrey Ray King and the “Unveiled Mysteries” and then the whole “I Am Chronicles” by Saint Germaine, and so I did. And during that time then when I would go into meditation with the intention of bringing through some higher intelligence, Saint Germaine made himself very present to me…


…and wanted to come through and communicate. And so then I was able to channel him and bring through some teachings that he wanted to bring through. So, Saint Germaine and then more recently with the divine feminine Sophia made herself very clear. She wanted to come through for me with some knowledge to share in circles like we are now coming together in councils of light here in the Sedona community and that was inspired by Sophia bringing some goddesses together. Men too, bringing in the feminine energy.

Well, men have feminine energy in them too. That’s what really needs to be developed these days the feminine energy whether it’s in males or females. We need more of the feminine energy.

Yes, absolutely. So thank you for letting me share that.

Oh, that’s wonderful. I really am glad to hear that. I’m very impressed.

Oh, thank you. And so speaking of more material, I just love Carla’s book, A Wanderer’s Handbook. It, too, has been a very valuable part of my journey. I know recently you have translated those books into audio, is that correct?

Right, I have a little recording studio in the basement and made it out of a very small bedroom, and we put blankets up around there to make the sound deadened. And I’ve been able to record all the books that Carla either wrote or channeled. Eventually, they will be available as audio books, but they’re going to have to be edited first. Have to be sure that I didn’t make mistakes here and there because it’s easy to make mistakes. Usually, I can catch myself when I make a mistake, and I would immediately record the correct reading so that it would be easy for an editor to go through and just paste that over. It’s a process that I don’t understand, but I’ve really enjoyed doing that because, well, Carla and Don and I were always a team and this kind of gives me a feeling of being a team again. Working with them and getting those energies. Pretty sure they’re helping me out.

Oh, I’m sure of it. I would love to encourage our audience because this show does goes out to those seeking truth and those who are spiritually inspired and, so I would imagine, a large percent of them are wanderers and I highly recommend that they go to your L/L Research site and go to your library and order A Wanderer’s Handbook. Can you talk more about what the content is in A Wanderer’s Handbook?

Well back in the early 90’s we really got into computers and being able to communicate with people via email. Carla would get a lot of emails from readers of the Law of One books, and they would say, you know I don’t have anybody to talk to about my spiritual journey. Nobody in my family is interested, and none of my friends are interested. A lot of folks are isolated around the country, around the world.

They would ask Carla questions. They’d say “How do I pursue my journey in a situation like this?” and so forth. She discovered there were probably about a hundred questions that were asked over and over and over. She decided she would categorize those questions. And that she would write a book that would address those questions. That’s how the Wanderer’s Handbook came into existence. All the various questions that can come up for a spiritual seeker, I think, pretty much came up. She probably had over a hundred to a hundred and fifty different people that allowed her to use their questions. She gave them credit in the book for the questions and so forth.

People who had those questions in the future could then sit down and kind of look up the table of contents and find that other people had the same questions years ago, and here’s what they did about it, and here’s what Carla had to say about it. It’s really a handbook for a…she has it as A Wanderer’s Handbook, but really it’s the spiritual seekers handbook because when you become a spiritual seeker consciously you’re basically in the same position as a wanderer from elsewhere. You’re living a life that’s a little unusual as compared to most people’s lives here on planet Earth. You need a little extra, I guess, understanding or encouragement, some guidance along the way, some inspiration, some companionship and that’s what she really sought to provide with the Wanderer’s Handbook. It’s really been a good seller over the years, but it’s also like all of our material—it’s also available for free to download from the website. If you like to read downloads, they’re there for free. A lot of people like to have something in their hands that they can hold, so we also have the books available.

Yes, and I highly recommend that people offer a donation too for all the hard work and effort that you all have put in to all of this wonderful material over the years.

And that Wanderer’s Handbook, just to go back to that for a moment. I have to tell you how closely I held that to my heart because like other wanderers and, just like you said, those on planet Earth who are seeking, you know, you often times feel so alone. You’re really experiencing a higher dimensional understanding of love and light, and you have such a strong desire to serve. You just start seeing things from this higher perspective that many of those around you don’t understand.

I’ve heard the word “woo woo” way too many times. I’ve finally just come to accept it as a term of endearment. I definitely have gone through times where I’ve kind of resented being labeled that because those people that I know who are spiritual seekers are highly intellectual, very intelligent, very thorough in their research, and it’s not like you’re just accepting things at face value. People are diving in and doing all kinds of research and seeking and deep meditation. It just really made me feel like I was involved with a community that was vast, and I wasn’t alone out there in this 3-D world being made fun of. Yes.

And then, Aaron-Q’uo dialogs. Wow, that is a phenomenal work. Can you tell us more about that?

Oh, yeah. It’s unique in that two spiritual entities in discarnate nature speaking to each other and getting along quite well.

Barbara Brodsky was a woman who lost her hearing during childbirth somewhere in the early 80’s. Toward the end of the 80’s she became aware of a voice speaking inside of her. It was Aaron. Aaron was her guide. Apparently, Aaron and she were incarnated together about 500 years ago in the area around India. She had stepped in front of a spear that was meant for Aaron. So she gave her life for Aaron. Aaron then decided that after he made his liberation, he was able to be graduated consciously, that he would become a guide for Barbara. He was of the Buddhist variety. That’s a type of aspect of knowledge and wisdom that Aaron has to share. And when Barbara became aware of this voice sharing this knowledge inside of her, she began writing it down. She was very impressed by it because it made sense, it was internally consistent, it was very inspiring, but she was wondering about it. She wasn’t into channeling or the spiritual path beforehand; this all just happened to her and it was a surprise.

She came in contact with the Ra material and decided she would write Carla and ask Carla to give her opinion on this material that she was getting from Aaron. Carla was very impressed with the material. She’d seen a lot of work over the years that wasn’t quite this quality. She got back in touch with Barbara and said: “Yes, you’ve got a good contact here, let’s keep talking because there’s a way of making it even better to be able to receive this information more clearly.” Over the years, Carla and Barbara became very good friends. Barbara was eventually able to open up her Deep Springs Center in Ann Arbor, Michigan and offer these teachings from Aaron to a great number of people in that area. They offer workshops and lectures and so forth and healings.

Eventually, Carla and Barbara decided that they would join forces and just come together over a series of weekends. I believe we got together on 9 different weekends Friday through Sunday. Most of them were here in Louisville, but we’d go up to Ann Arbor a couple of times. What we would do is people who would gather around from Barbara’s group and from our group would have questions. They would ask these questions of Aaron and Q’uo and, depending upon the answers then, there would be more questions. It kind of fed itself. It kept going because people had more questions.

We began recording all of it. Eventually, it ended up into The Aaron/Q’uo Dialogues. Aaron and Q’uo are each given a chance to respond to each of the questions that came from the people in these groups. It’s been a very interesting book. It hasn’t sold a lot of books, but we’ve been so blessed to have it.

One of the things that drove Carla to try this experiment was that back in the 80’s, I don’t know if it’s still the case right now, but a lot channels would sort of be competitive with each other. “Well, my channel is different or better than yours,” and so forth. The ego seemed to be getting in the way in some cases. Carla wanted to show that it was possible to set the ego aside and to be able to channel your source, whatever it was, and the sources themselves had no problem at all with any kind of ego. They were happy to communicate to anybody who was wanting to listen.

Aaron and Q’uo got along great. They each made each other laugh and elaborated on what the other person had to say. It was just a trading back and forth of energy and information and inspiration. We were so pleased and privileged to be able to do that work.

Well that’s another book that I highly recommend. It’s kind of a hefty book, but it is so inspiring and the expressions are just so beautiful. It’s just all about radiating love and light. But, it also addresses those shadows that we really need to deal with and grapple with in this 3-D reality of comparatives. It really helps the individual work through that and move through those obstacles on their path. It helps the individual also understand themselves to a much deeper degree, I think. I thought the book was very helpful in many regards, so I highly recommend that as well.

Well, thank you. That was our hope.

Yes, yes. Now you have a new book, Tilting at Windmills, and I was able to download that as a PDF. Can you tell us more about that book and how that came about?

Sure. Back in July of 2014, Gary got Carla and I together for a week and we were here in the room, and Carla was in her hospital bed, and I sat beside there. Gary asked us 400 questions. It took 30 hours. The questions were everything to do with biographies of Don, of Carla and me; we went into the Ra contact in great depth and into the information we got there; into other entities and sources we’ve channeled through L/L Research since 1962. We went through everything that is at all related to L/L Research, it is really an archive work for anybody interested in L/L Research.

Gary did such a magnificent job. Gary Bean is our Director of L/L Research and he was assisted by Austin Bridges, who is the Assistant Director. They were able to put all that information together and publish it here in-house. They were able to format the book and to get all the pictures in there and various charts and graphs and describe the information in certain areas that they were getting. It’s just a really fine work.

I think it’s something that the people who are interested in the history of L/L Research would enjoy. Also, he has some information about where we’re going in the future. It was a work that was really the inspiration of Gary Bean, our Director. Carla and I were just thrilled to be able to recall the good old days during the Ra contact when Don was with us. It was a real pleasure and privilege to be a part of that. Like I said, it took a full week, 30 hours of interviews in order to get all the information down, recorded.

I downloaded that as a PDF, but it’s also available as a book?

Yes, it is. It’s available from our online store.

Can you tell us about some of the other books? I know there was like a channeling guide book and some other books. Can you expand on some of the other books that are available through your library?

A Channeling Handbook was written in 1988 by Carla because she had seen a number of workshops that were weekend workshops where people could learn how to channel, and then they were off on their own. She thought that was a little too soon to be off on your own, that you need to have a guide with you, a more experienced channel to work with you for quite awhile after you’re a channel.

She put together the channeling handbook as a means to provide that kind of information to people who were already channeling and who needed to get a little bit more information about how to do it and how to do it well and responsibly. Because it’s a large universe, there are lots of kinds of entities out there, and you need to be able to discriminate as to what entities you got.

The basic two features of the channeling handbook that Carla had to contribute was number one, and this is one that a lot of people already know, is to tune yourself as an instrument. Take some time before you channel, every time before you channel, to meditate, to pray, to ask that the highest information that you can hold in a stable manner come through you.

Then the other thing that some people don’t know about, is you need to be able to challenge any entity willing to speak through you in the name of whatever quality or person or whatever is the heart of your spiritual journey. That is who you really are spiritually and metaphysically. For Carla it was Jesus because she had experienced this with Jesus from the age of two years old that told her what unconditional love was. So, Jesus was the entity of whom she would challenge any entity wishing to speak through her. They would have to be able to say that Jesus is Lord.

That pretty much eliminates a lot of sources of a negative nature who cannot stand that type of a challenge because when you challenge in the name of whatever is the heart of your spiritual journey, Christ consciousness, the Buddah, Lao-tzu, service to others, whatever it might be—that is who you are and that quality stands with you in the metaphysical realms. Any entity wishing to channel through you must be able to answer those challenges. Ra always mentioned that the Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator appreciated such challenges because they knew that it was a crowded universe, and you want to be sure you know who you’ve got on the line when you channel. They appreciated being challenged, and they could say, “Yes indeed, we come in the name of love. Yes, we come in the name of Christ consciousness.” so that was no problem for them. That’s where the channeling handbook came from.

Then she wrote a book in 2005 to try to help people to understand the Ra Material and the Law of One because there are a lot of interesting and somewhat difficult concepts that are expressed in there. She tried to write a book that would make those concepts more easily understood. That was called Living the Law of One 101 - The Choice. That book is twelve chapters long. It goes through the various energy centers and various densities and describes the basic information Ra gives. Carla uses quotes from the Ra material, but she puts it in her words and is able to make it easier to understand. That was really the reason that book was written.

Speaking of Living the Law of One, I have to share with you my sister came to visit and she asked if she could borrow the book, and she still hasn’t given it back to me. Last time I saw her, I said: Can I have my book back? And she goes: Oh, no, I love this book. I’m not giving it back until I’ve read every word.

It’s actually our best selling book.

Oh, really? Okay.

People appreciate the information being put in a way that they can grasp it a little more easily.

Yes, I’m so pleased that I can share it and she’s getting so much out of it, so, thank you.

Going way back to the very first book that Don and Carla wrote together was called “The Crucifixion of Esmeralda Sweetwater”.


That book was very interesting in that it was a… well, the way it was written and the fact that it wasn’t fiction like they thought it was. It actually was prophetic. It had a number of things for L/L Research that came true in the future, about a dozen or so. The way they wrote it, they would sit together on the couch. Carla would lie down and put her head in Don’s lap. Don would have a tape recorder in his hand. They saw the book much as you would see a movie. They saw it in their minds. Don would see the plot, and Carla would see the characters. And that was how the book was written. The only thing they couldn’t see clearly as they saw everything else was the ending of the book. The book, of course by the title, someone has to die. The characters in there each of the three of us were mentioned in there. They had me in there even though they hadn’t met me yet. They perfectly described my face by describing what Timothy Baer looked like. There were two other characters one was Carla, that’s Esmeralda, and one was Don and that was Joshua Star. They knew that somebody had to die. They figured, well, Don’s so healthy; he’s never had a sick day in his life and Carla had all these issues, medical issues, probably was going to be Carla, so they wrote it that way. That was the way that they finally decided. But, it turned out that Don was the one to go first, so that was 1984.

Then, the second book that they wrote together was 1976, they wrote Secrets of the UFO. And, basically , that was a compilation of Don’s previous 25 years of investigation into the UFO phenomenon. It wasn’t just investigating hard cases, you know, abductions and face to face contacts and so forth. That’s in there, but they also got into the channel information and how that played into the overall expressing of the philosophy of those entities that are in the UFOs. That was a very interesting book. In that book, they also write about wanderers. Chapter 8 is all about wanderers. That was one of the first places anybody had seen information on this quality of wanderers—beings from higher densities that would come back to Earth and willing go through the forgetting to be part Earth so they could help Earth in its graduation and be able to remember why they were here and offer certain services, teaching or healing or anything like that. That was Secrets of the UFO and that is still in print as well, and it’s still to this day is a very good book to describe the UFO phenomenon because it describes it not only the hard cases but from the philosophical point of view—why they’re here: because there is a harvest going on. There are a great many sources of extraterrestrial information available on the planet and, as you said, many more people are contacting those sources and able to express them and to share that information to help with the graduation.

Yes and I read for the first time in Tilting at Windmills, Don actually became very fascinated by a case that occurred when he was only 9 years old. A UFO siting that took place nearby when he was just nine.

Well, the sighting that really affected him the most was when he was seventeen.

Oh, okay.

Our Vice President of L/L Research was 8 years old when he sighted a UFO and he met Don.

Oh, okay.

That’s where the young kid comes in. Morris was living in southern Louisville in Jefferson County and he and three of his friends were out one summer’s day in a field playing, and a UFO landed in front of them. Being kids, they took dirt clods and threw them at the UFO. This little entity about 3 feet tall got out and had this little rod that he pointed at them and sort of gave them an electric shock and suggested that they not throw any more clods. A voice came to Morris in his mind and it said go to another place and so Morris went there because Morris couldn’t see the first UFO. He got a message from the entities inside to go to another place, and there he received an inspiration to discover not only the meaning of the UFO, but the meaning of his life and what he was supposed to do with his life. His mother was very psychically oriented as well, and when she heard that this UFO case happened to her son, she contacted the University of Louisville to see if there was anybody there who might be investigating UFOs. It just so happened that Don Elkins had been investigating them, and he was a professor of physics there. That’s how Morris and Don met many, many years ago. Of course, Morris is still our Vice President and is still very active with L/L Research.

The case that really affected Don, himself, was when he was seventeen. He was taking flying lessons at the flying school here, the Elkins Mantell Flying School. A distant relative of his was the Elkins part and Captain Tom Mantell of the Kentucky Air National Guard was the Mantell part. He was only 25 years old, but he was a Captain in the Kentucky Air National Guard, and he was teaching Don how to fly. One day, he was flying a P-51, a World War II fighter plane, along with 3 other pilots each flying a P-51. They were flying from Marietta, Georgia to Louisville Standiford field. That morning there had been 30 different calls to the Kentucky Highway Patrol by civilians mentioning a large, unidentified object just south of Mayfield, Kentucky. Eventually, the Kentucky Highway Patrol called Godman Field, Fort Knox and said “Do you have any planes in the air that can investigate this UFO?”

Godman Field radioed Captain Mantell and asked if he could plot an intercept course and try to discover what this unidentified flying object was. After about half an hour, Captain Mantell radioed Godman Field that they had the UFO in sight. It was huge. It was 300 feet in diameter. It was round. It was metallic. It was shaped like an upside down ice cream cone with a point on top and the round on the bottom. He got close enough to see inside and he said: “My God, there are people in there. There are people inside that UFO.” Right at that moment, the UFO shot straight up at a rapid rate of speed, and Captain Mantell gave chase. Unfortunately, he did not have oxygen in his plane and when he passed through 20,000 feet he passed out due to lack of oxygen. His plane augured in and crashed, and he was killed. He was killed on the Kentucky/Tennessee border. That crash did two things. It got the American public thinking well UFOs might be real. Because up to that point, the few sightings that had been made were all pooh poohed as well, “That’s swamp gas or that’s a weather balloon,” or something like that. But now, for the first time ever, a member of the United States military had been killed chasing a UFO. The second thing it did was get Don Elkins interested in investigating UFOs. That’s how he got interested in the field.

Thanks for expanding on that. I was searching my memory about why I was hung up on this 9 year old Don Elkins and I think it was this interesting idea that he had where he wouldn’t get out of the car and go into church. That’s pretty deep for a 9 year old to start contemplating the philosophical meaning of religion.

Yes, Don was a very interesting fellow. He had deep thoughts at a very early age. His Mom and Dad were both Christian Scientists. That meant that they both went to the church on Sunday. And his Mom was a practitioner, so she would give to what amounted to a service and a sermon. Don finally made a deal with them that he would go to church, but he wouldn’t get out of the car. He was 9 years old when he made that choice. He kept asking the big questions all the way through grade school and high school. How big is the universe? How does it work? Is there an end to it? He asked those questions. He was always concerned with the biggest possible questions. And that’s really what got him interested in UFOs and being able to ask those questions of Ra. If you read the questions of the Ra contact, you see how intelligent those are.


His combination of intelligence, intuition and experience was just incredible.

And Carla’s willingness to serve the Creator and your profound ability to hold the energy and run energy through her chakras while she channeled. Just the three of you and your harmonious relationship and love for one another, the whole thing is just so incredibly beautiful. What you guys were able to bring through with the Ra material and all of the other books has been such a great service to humanity, Jim.

Well, thank you so much. It’s what we wanted to do. There was no question in our minds that we wanted to be together and to do this work. It was like we have realized our pre-incarnative choices very clearly.

And your library is such a gem of amazing books that I so encourage our audience to go and check out, and you guys are just so generous for offering them as .pdfs, and soon they’ll all be audio downloads as well. Just such a great service. You really are in service to others in this lifetime, Jim.

That was always Don’s dream. Back before the computers, he said to Carla: I want to be able to make all of this information available worldwide for free. And the internet has allowed us to do that.

Yes and thank you so very much for that beautiful website and I also want to reach out and thank Austin Bridges. I know that he works really hard for you guys. He helps to create those websites. I’ve emailed him over the years. He’s just always so friendly and helpful.

Oh, he is indeed. I have got a great crew in there with Gary and Austin. I couldn’t have better people.

Yes. I hope to come some day. I would love to come to visit L/L Research there in Louisville.

Oh, you’d be most welcome. I hope you do come.

Thank you. I would also love to be able to organize an event here in Sedona. I know that our spiritual community here would be so incredibly fascinated by everything that you’re sharing with me like in this interview, but also the many books that you guys have to offer. We’ll have to talk more about that offline.

I’d be glad to come and I’d be glad to talk.

Wonderful. Thank you so much for all of your time. This interview and the one we did prior are so jam packed with incredible information, so inspirational and so much enlightenment that you have to share. I so appreciate it, Jim.

It’s been a great honor for me. This is what I live to do: to be able to share the information that we gathered and to try to play some little part in people’s growth.

It’s truly and honor and a privilege. Thank you so very much. I do want to dedicate this interview to our beloved Carla. It was such an honor to be able to interview her a few years ago and we’ll maybe make that available by audio. And, also, of course, dedicate it to Don Elkins and his lifelong dedication to bringing this information forward.

Well, thank you so much Suzanne. I appreciate that very much.

Oh, thank you. And many blessings, my dear.

And thank you all so much for joining us for this incredible episode of Lighten Up. And remember, live well, love life.