Hello, and welcome to Lighten Up. I am your host, Suzanne Ross, and it is truly an honor and a privilege to be here today with Jim McCarty. Jim is one of the three members of the L/L Research group based out of Louisville, Kentucky, who are best known for their series of books, called The Law of One Series. Thanks so much for joining us today, Jim.

Well, thanks for having me, Suzanne, I’m really honored to be here.

Yes, I was so delighted to get connected with your series of books and it really happened through reading David Wilcock’s Source Field Investigations, which, in itself, came about quite synchronistically for me, but once I started diving into the books I just couldn’t get enough. I’ve read every one of the five books, word for word, time and again. My father, before he passed, became very interested in the books, and I have to tell you something very touching. On his bedside while he was passing from cancer, he just wanted me to keep reading out of the Law of One series.

Oh, how inspiring. That’s beautiful. Thank you so much for telling me.

Yes, thank you so much for making them available so that we can have wonderful revelations like that in our lifetimes.

Oh, yeah.

Yes, and so what I’d really like to do, Jim, is just really start by helping our audience understand how your group formed and a little bit of background information. It’s sounds to me like Don Elkins was really the impetus for the start of the group. He really started this psychic research back in 1962?

That was the beginning of the channeling. He was interested in UFOs back as a senior in high school in 1948. He did age regressions in the ’50s to try to prove to himself that reincarnation was the way things worked, so he started a long time ago as a high school senior trying to ask and answer the big questions—what is life all about, how big is the universe, how does it work?

So, he continued that process all the way through college, became a professor of physics at the University of Louisville, and he did those regressions. He probably did about 200 regressions in the 1950’s to prove to himself that reincarnation was really the way things worked. Then, in 1962, he came in contact with some information from a group in Detroit. A fellow there by the name of Walt Rogers, had had a face-to-face encounter with a supposed extraterrestrial being, and as was frequently the case back in the 50’s, he had what was called “a lingering telepathic contact” with this entity, and he was told by the entity, whose name was Hatonn, who was a planetary group that was speaking through him, said, “If you get together a number of people that are interested in spiritual growth and meditate at least once a week, that we can deliver some inspirational messages to you and you could share them with others who are interested in spiritual seeking.”

So, he put together this information that Hatonn had to say, and put it into what was then called “The Brown Notebook.” Well, a fellow who is in that book, in that group in Detroit, his name was Hal Price, he worked at the Ford Motor Company there. So, he was transferred to Louisville’s Ford Motor Company and he brought that Brown Notebook with him and had the description of how you could start your own meditation group and get these extraterrestrial contacts. So, he discretely asked around when he moved to Louisville, “Is there anybody in this town that’s interested in UFO’s, and hearing from extraterrestrial entities”? And he was pointed towards Don Elkins at the University of Louisville. Don frequently was called to go out and investigate UFOs at that time, so when he heard from Hal about this notebook he was very interested, and he decided that, being a scientist, he was going to try an experiment. He was going to take twelve of his students from the Speed Scientific School, they were all taking the Introduction to Physics class from him, and they’d become friends, and he was going to try an experiment.

Now at that time Speed Scientific School was all male, but one of the guys had a girlfriend, and she was interested too, and her name was Carla Rueckert. So, that’s how Carla met Don, and the experiment was conducted by Don telling them all that something interesting could happen if they would all meditate together once or twice a week. Now, he didn’t tell them what could happen, because being a scientist, he wanted to see if maybe this contact would happen by itself.

Well, it turns out that for the first couple of months, each guy in the circle was getting some sort of contact, but nobody wanted to speak it, nobody wanted to say anything because they were afraid they were making it up. That’s a problem every new instrument has—he or she is afraid they are making up what’s appearing in their mind because it seems like your own thoughts. So, nobody said anything until Walt Rogers came to visit the group, and he channeled Hatonn and Hatonn said, “Well, we do have contact with you, if you’ll simply speak the words without analyzing them first, just speak them as they come, then the contact will continue. Analyze it after it’s over. Analyze what the message is afterwards. If you analyze it while it’s going on, you’ll stop the contact.” So, that’s the way it started, and after that, as far as Don was concerned, the scientific nature of the experiment was pretty well blown, so he decided that the best thing he could do was just gather as much information as he could and compare it with other groups around the country, and around the world at that time, there were other people that were channeling back in the ‘50’s and early ‘60’s.

So, everybody in the group, except Carla, learned how to channel. She was very much interested in silent meditation, that was really what drew her to the group, and she thought the messages were wonderful, but she really wasn’t interested in channeling herself. So, that’s really how the group got going.

That’s fascinating. Yeah, I’ve read the introduction to the first book, which kind of details some of this background information, but I think it’s really interesting how then Carla left her profession as a librarian to actually go to work full time for Don Elkins after, I think it was 1970, and the two of them started collaborating on a series of books, I think one of which was published, the one about Esmeralda Sweetwater, and I think Voices of the Gods, but then The Secrets of the UFO actually got published.

Right. They joined in 1968 and their first work was that book, The Crucifixion of Esmeralda Sweetwater. Now that book was an interesting book in a couple of ways. The first one was how it was written. Don and Carla would get together on the couch. Don would sit there and she would put her head in his lap. He’d have a tape recorder in his hand, and they saw the book in their minds. It was working out before them as almost watching a play. Don would concentrate upon the plot, and Carla would concentrate upon the characters, but they both saw the same things happening. So, they wrote the book that way. The only thing they couldn’t see in the same fashion as a movie, was the ending of the book.

By the title of the book you can tell that somebody has to die. Well, they couldn’t figure out who it was going to be. The book had a lot of symbology as far as L/L Research goes. It was also very prophetic. At least a dozen different things that were mentioned in the book came true over the years. One of the things that they were trying to figure out was who was going to die, and they figured, “Well, Don’s big and strong and very healthy”—never was sick a day in his life, so it’s not going to be the character that was Don in the book, whose name was Joshua Star. So it was probably going to be the character that Carla played, because Carla had a rather frail body and has had arthritis all her life, and had a lot of problems with medical situations that she had programmed previous to the incarnation for certain reasons. So they chose Esmeralda, and Esmeralda died in the book. That was the only thing they couldn’t figure out how to exactly do it. They went through ten different endings trying to figure it out.

But then, after that, as you said, they decided in 1976, to try to gather together all the information that Don had accumulated in his 25 years of research into UFOs. So, Secrets of the UFO was the product of that 25 years of research. So, that was what happened with that book and it did get published, that’s true.

Well, a little bit more on the Esmeralda Sweetwater book, is the connection with Uri Geller and Dr. Andrija Puharich.

Right. Yeah, they were amazed—when they wrote that book they had not yet met Andrija Puharich or Uri Geller. So, they wrote the book in 1968 and in the book there is a character called Dr. Pablo Padeyevsky, and it turned out that this is Puharich, and that there was another character in there—Joshua Starr was Don, and Esmeralda was Carla, and I was Theodore Behr, and then there was another magician in there who was supposed to be Uri Geller. Well, in 1974, they had met Andrija Puharich, and they discovered that they were interested in the same sorts of investigation into contactee investigations, and into channeling, so they were invited by Dr. Puharich to come up to upstate New York where he lived, and work with him a little bit while they were up there. In fact, they were considering moving there.

Well, when they pulled up to his estate they noticed it was a dead ringer for the house in their book, The Crucifixion of Esmeralda Sweetwater, so when Andrija came out to meet them and greet them, they exchanged greetings and Carla said to him, “Andrija, this house is exactly like the house in our book, but there’s one thing different. There used to be peonies around your circle driveway.” And Andriji said, “Oh, yeah, I had those cut down two years ago.” So that was in l972. In 1968 when they wrote the book, the peonies were there. So, that was how they met Andrija and began working with him, and over the years they had a number of experiences with Andrija and with Uri Geller as well—fascinating experiences that proved to Don that such things as mental telepathy could be displayed, not just by extraterrestrials contacting you, but Don and Uri had a very close contact where one of them could draw some sort of an image on a piece of paper, and the other one could pick up what it was.

The most interesting thing, I think, that ever happened that connected those two, was Don was flying a small airplane, he was a pilot, and for a number of years he flew for Eastern Air Lines as a pilot for a 727, but whenever there was a report around the country of somebody that had a UFO sighting or an abduction, he would rent a plane at Bowman Field and take off, and he and Carla would go and investigate. She would take notes and he would do the interview. Well, they were on one of those flights, and it was bad weather and he was using his instruments, and the gyroscope, the artificial horizon, went out. It malfunctioned, and when that happens, it’s just like a flat tire. You can’t fix that.

So, all of the sudden, about 15 minutes after that had happened, it was fixed. Something fixed the gyroscope. About five days later, Don was in Las Vegas on one of his trips for Eastern, and he met Uri at a hotel. He came into the hotel room and they started talking, and Don said, “You know, I had a very strange experience five days ago. My plane—something happened to my artificial horizon, the gyroscope went out, but then it was fixed again.

Uri got all excited, and said, “Oh, oh, that manila envelope right next to you—get that manila envelope.” So, Don picks up the manila envelope, and he looks at it, and in Uri’s handwriting there is “gyroscope out.” And then he had a note made “energy left me.” So, energy would leave him when he fixed something. He could fix clocks or watches that weren’t working right. He didn’t even know what was happening, he just knew that at that time, the time matched perfectly, same day, same hour, that Uri somehow fixed Don’s gyroscope and the horizon was working again.

So, when Don landed at the airport in Evansville, Indiana, he showed it to the mechanic, and said, “Now, you’re not going to believe me, but this horizon was out, and now it’s fixed.” And the mechanic said, “You don’t fix horizons, I’m sorry, that just couldn’t have happened.” But it did.

That’s remarkable evidence of telepathy between us humans here on the planet, right?


That’s a wonderful story. Yes, and so then, it sounds to me like around this time you were also fascinated by contact, and you joined some groups that were engaged in this, Jim.

That’s right. 1974 was a pivotal year for the three of us. We hadn’t met yet, but that was the year that just about everybody from the original group had moved away. They had started as college students when they started the contact. But they got jobs, they got married, they moved out of town, so only Don was left as a channel. So, he looked at Carla, and said, “Free lunch is over—time to learn how to channel.”

So, in that year Carla learned how to channel, and Don, teaching her how to channel—well, actually, it was Hatonn teaching Carla through Don (Don was channeling) what she should do. That’s where Voices of the Confederation came from, a book that we just finally put out after all these years from that particular experience of Carla learning how to channel from Don and from Hatonn. Now that same year, I moved from Nebraska to Kentucky, to the woods of Central Kentucky. At that time there was a so-called “back-to-the-land movement,” which was a lot of hippies from the city who’d been to college and had their degrees, and now were following Theroux’s dictum of “simplify, simplfy.” Buy your own land, build your own house, raise your own food, homeschool your children.

So I bought 132 acres of land in Central Kentucky and I proceeded to build a log cabin and live there for the next six and one-half years off the grid. But, on May 30, 1977, I had my little battery-powered radio on, I was listening to Station WKQQ from Lexington, Kentucky, and they were interviewing Don and Carla on the topic of UFOs, and I was absolutely fascinated. I listened for probably about an hour and a half, and I was really hoping to meet them one day, but it took me about eight months to actually meet them.

At that time in central Kentucky, the back-to-the-land movement had a number of food co-ops. People would get together and whatever food they couldn’t grow on their land they would order from the Federation of Ohio River Coops in Columbus, Ohio, and we’d place our orders together and come in a week later when the order came and divide it up and take it home. Well, while we were dividing one order up I was talking to these folks that lived on the other side of the same county that I lived in, and I was saying, “You know, I’ve heard about some people in Louisville that do some channeling. I heard them on the radio last year.”

And they said, “Oh, Don and Carla, yeah, we’re members of that group. We could introduce you.”

So, I said, “Fine, that’s exactly what I’ve been hoping for.” That was how I met Don and Carla. For the next year I would drive from my cabin in central Kentucky to Louisville on Sunday nights to join Don and Carla for their channeling meditations. So that was how we met, and the following summer was 1980. They decided to move from their small apartment that they’d been in for 12 years and having the channelings there. They moved out to the edge of town, a little town called Jeffersontown, which is just on the edge of Louisville, and they moved into this wonderful old house, probably built in the 1950s.

It was one story and built oddly coincidentally enough, in the shape of an L. At both ends and in the middle there was a bedroom, and I helped them move into it. It was on six and one-half acres of land, it had a lot of trees and vines and flowers and bushes around it. It was just a beautiful house, and after helping them move, they invited me to join them to become part of their group because we’d gotten along really well.

But, I had been in contact with a group in Olympia, Washington, “Cosmic Awareness Communications.” Paul Shockley was the channel, and he was supposedly channeling from the same source Edgar Cayce did, the Akashic Records of the planet. I’d been on the mailing list for five years and I had it in my mind that that was where I really wanted to go, so I thanked Don and Carla for inviting me, but I headed out that October in 1980 to…well, Paul lived in a little town out in Oregon, Yamhill. He would drive up to Olympia, Washington and do channeling for them twice a month, and then come back to where he lived in Yamhill.

They also had the Aquarian Church of Universal Service there that was made up of people that appreciated what Paul had to channel. So, all the folks there that had kids would home school them at the Yamhill School of Awareness, and that was where I lived there in a little trailer. It was a rusty old trailer that I called “Tootsie Roll” because it was brown just like a Tootsie Roll, and I had a chance, after being there for about two months—a fellow there in the Aquarian Church gave me a chance to earn a lot of money being the manager of his mining operation that was mining diatomaceous earth (that’s the fossilized remains of small sea creatures from millions of years ago). Well, I didn’t have anything against money, but I didn’t go out there to earn money, so I was confused. I decided to take the weekend off and retire to my little Tootsie Roll trailer and meditate to try to figure out what to do. So, I told the folks at The Windsong School of Awareness that was going to do that and that I would see them on Monday.

Well, it took about 30 seconds of the meditation for the message to come quite clearly, like a comet across my inner sky, to return to Louisville and join Don and Carla. So, I drove 2,500 miles back to Louisville and joined Don and Carla. In that two-month period I’d driven 5,000 miles to move 70 miles up the road. But, eventually, we got together and 23 days after I’d joined them, the Ra contact started.

I understand from the book that Ra indicates to the three of you that the communication was really only possible because of the energy between all three of you.

That’s right. We had a harmony between us that was like a gift. We didn’t have to work at it. We just got along with each other and that was a real blessing, and Ra said that that plus Carla’s purity of seeking, her desire to serve the One Creator by communication, and specifically by channeling, those were the two features that made it possible for Ra to communicate through our group.

And I understand that you would sit and actually run energy through Carla’s chakras during the sessions, as well as facilitate the recording of them.

Right. We had three tape recorders going just to be redundant, because a time or two one or two of them would fail. We wanted to be sure to get every word that Ra spoke, so I would run the tape recorders, but that didn’t take much time or effort, so the rest of the time I would meditate and see the energy coming into Carla from her crown chakra, going down all the way through her energy centers so that there would be a clean flow of energy through there, and that was basically the thing, I think, that was my basic role there, to help with the energizing of the contact.

Yes, and then, so Carla was the person who the channeling came through, and Don Elkins asked the questions. Can you tell me more about the process of preparing Carla for the channeling?

Sure. It took us probably about seventeen or eighteen sessions to discover that if— I should preface that by saying that Don was celibate. He did not want to have anything to do with sexual relations because he felt that it was better for him and his spiritual path to be celibate and not be bothered with such things. When he and Carla first got together they had a relationship, but after while she got the impression that he didn’t really have his heart into it, and he said, “Yeah, you’re right. I’d rather be celibate.” So, when I came along it worked out perfectly, that was part of the harmony of the group. Carla and I became mates, basically. We discovered that when we had sexual relations the night before a session, it would lengthen the session considerably, because it would increase her vital energy.

Vital energy Ra described as being the combination of mind, body and spirit used in a spiritual sense. So, the first thing we did, was the night before to consider the questions we’d gotten answered the previous session, figure out new questions, we’d meditate together, and then Carla and I would have what Ra called “a sexual energy exchange.” And that was possible if you were opened up at least to the green ray heart center, for an exchange of the energies between the two to happen you had to be open at least to the green ray, so we met that qualification and we were able to aid the contact in that manner.

So, on the day of the contact we would get up and have a very light breakfast, toast and some juice, nothing heavy, and then I would give Carla a massage that would help her to… she had arthritis. She’d programmed arthritis for this life so she would be sure to focus on the inner journey, not be out in the world doing all kinds of things. Having arthritis meant she had to focus on meditation, contemplation, prayer and so forth. And that’s exactly what she wanted. But with the arthritis, if she was going to be lying still for about an hour or more, then it was likely to become painful, so the massage helped to stave off the pain that was probably going to be coming at some point. In a number of places during the contact you’ll see where Ra mentions a pain flare, “We need to pause for a minute to let the pain flare pass, we need to be able to try to move her hand.” And it wasn’t their skill to be able to move any part of her body, but sometimes it would take a couple of minutes and they were able to reposition her wrist or a hand or an elbow so that the pain would leave.

So, I would give her that massage, and then we’d go into the living room where the contact started, and we’d have a meditation together just to kind of blend our energies to become one. Sometimes, during those meditations Don would get another question or two to ask Ra. And then after that meditation was over we would retire to the room that we dedicated only for the Ra contact, and that was a bedroom that wasn’t being used.

The living room was used for Sunday night meditations that were open to the public, and that’s where the contact actually started. Carla was teaching one of the students from that meditation group how to channel on a Wednesday night. That’s when the contact actually started. Don and Carla were there, but I was gone out shopping for groceries.

So, once we got into the room to have the Ra session, we would situate Carla on the bed in the middle of the room. Ra had given us directions as to how to situate her—that she needed to be pointed 20 degrees east of north, because that would be the direction from which the new age energies would be coming, and that it would be very good for her comfort, psychologically and mentally if we put at her head a chalice of water, a virgin chalice, incense in a virgin sensor, the bible that she touched most frequently opened to John, Chapter I, “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and God was the word…” and so forth. That’s as close to the Law of One as you can get in the bible, and that’s pretty close.

And also, incense, chalice, water, and the Bible, all four of those were there at her head. The reason those were helpful for Carla was that she called herself a “cradle Episcopalian.” She was born into the Episcopal Church and it fed her soul a great deal to be able to go through the worship service there, and she was on the alter guild, and every week, she would dress the alter in those very items. So, being able to have those there while she left her body and came back to her body, was very comforting, and that’s why Ra suggested that we have them there. And they needed to be placed in a certain alignment with each other, so before each session would start, Don would measure them to be sure they were in the proper place, and then Ra gave us what they called “the circle of One,” that we could walk around Carla that would begin the session. It would be kind of a triggering mechanism for Carla, for Don, or for me, and it was simply said, “What is the Law?” “The Law is One.” “Why do we seek Ra?” “Ra is a messenger of the Law of One.” And, “Rejoice then, and purify this place in the Law of One, that no thought may enter this circle that we walked about this instrument, for the Law is One.”

So, after that, it would take about a minute or so before Ra would begin speaking through Carla. As I said, Carla would leave her body, but Ra would not inhabit it—Ra would use it from the inner planes of the planet, so they would actually use her body as an instrument, just like a telephone. And that was the way the Ra contact worked.

That’s so interesting, and I can envision how you would run energy from the crown chakra to the throat chakra, and actually through the… I like that analogy of how they were sort of using Carla’s body as an instrument, almost like a telephone, and then how you would run energy from her crown chakra into her throat chakra, and that would really facilitate her being able to bring through the communication.

Right. Ra hadn’t really said anything about doing that, but it just came to me intuitively that it would be a good idea if I imaged that energy going through the body. Ra mentioned that any time they entered anyone’s body to do work, they always entered through the violet ray, through the crown chakra, and then they would go to whatever area they were working with. So, with a channel like Carla, they’d be going to the blue ray at the throat. But, I thought it would be a good idea if I ran energy all the way through from the violet down through the red and out through the soles of her feet. That way it would keep everything flowing smoothly, and it seemed to work just fine. They never complained about my practice.

It sounds like following your intuition has served you well, my dear.

It has indeed. I’ve been very blessed throughout my life to have this little voice inside of me that gives me an indication of which way to go. We all have that small voice.

It serves me well, too. I definitely check in with spirit every morning, and the important decisions I make in life, and it’s always directed me in the direction of my best interest.

That’s true, and it’s available for everybody.

Yes. So, let’s talk about the nature of group Ra. Who are they, and where are they from, what is their vibration, and why are they coming through?

Well, Ra said that they were what we would call a “group mind,” what they called a “social memory complex”. On the planet right now we have social complexes all over the place, but we haven’t all pointed our seeking in one direction. If a planetary population is able to point itself in one direction, all decide to seek the Creator in the way of love and understanding, which is the fourth density, then they can become a social memory complex which means they would have all the memories of every person in the society through every incarnation available for any use it might have for serving others. So, it’s a huge library of information. If you look at the Akashic Record of Planet Earth, that’s basically the potential social memory complex of this planet. If we could all become as one and seek as one then we would all have access to that record of memory.

So, Ra had been able to do that when they were on the planet Venus, back billions of years ago when they were at the third-density level. They were able to after—well, they say that each third density cycle is made up of three 25,000-year cycles. Then, after that, there’s a graduation, which is where we are now. We’re attempting to graduate. So, it took them three cycles for about 6.5 million of their entities after the third final cycle, to graduate into the fourth density. Now, they totally had 38 million on the planet. That meant that 32 million of them needed to go elsewhere in order to be able to graduate.

That’s happened a lot throughout the experience of the creation. Many entities on this planet have been on other planets attempting to learn these lessons of love and understanding and have not succeeded and have come here to Earth to try again. So, Ra, the 6.5 million that were able to make it in the first 75,000 years then became what we call the social memory complex Ra. And the others, who were not able to make that first year, are still on the planet Venus and they’re in the fifth density. But Ra has moved to the sixth density.

They describe each creation as having the same as an octave of notes. There are eight different densities and the first density is made up of earth, wind, fire and water. And these are the beginning of life, and they can evolve into the very basic life in the second density where we have microbes and bacteria, and at the higher levels where we have plants and animals, and they have a mind and a body. We’re in the third density and we have also a spirit, whereas we move into the fourth density and we’re total beings now—we have mind, body and spirit, and the fourth density is the density of love and understanding. It’s quite a bit longer though; our third density is only 75,000 years, which is an eye blink when you compare it to 30 million years for the fourth density, and in the fifth density wisdom is added to the lessons, and it’s 50 million years long. Ra’s density, the sixth density, which is the attempt to blend or balance love and wisdom is 75 million years long. They say they’re only 2.5 million years away from graduation into the 7th density, which is the travel back to the Creator—the density of foreverness—and it really hasn’t got a length of time to it. It’s where all of us bring our lessons we’ve learned, the fruits of our labors…

See, the Creator seems to have made all of this infinite creation in order to know itself better, and through each of us making choices, because the Creator has given us free will, every choice we make is a gift to the Creator. The Creator knows more of itself in an infinite variety of ways, in more depth, in more intensity. So, we’re all serving the Creator by learning the lessons we learn to move through the higher densities. It’s a symbiotic relationship for sure, because all is the Creator, there is nothing but the Creator in the universe. The Creator has made the universe out of itself so that it might know itself better. As the seventh density is entered into and moved through, beings begin to coalesce once again into what Ra called “the Great Central Sun,” so in the eighth density, it is both the end of this octave of densities, and it’s the beginning of the next octave of densities. So, all the fruit of the lessons learned in this octave of being is used to make another octave of being, and it goes on—and this process apparently goes on infinitely. It’s gone on infinitely so that Ra says the Creator begins and ends in mystery. And in between we have this great chance to serve the Creator by serving lessons that we learned and going forward with all these lessons, learning to love, learning to be wise, learning to have the power to serve more effectively, so it’s a wonderful relationship between the Creator, who is yearning to know us, and to know itself. We are yearning to know the Creator and to know ourselves, so it’s a lesson in learning and understanding, all the way through the octave of densities.

What motivates group Ra to want to reach back and help out us third-density beings here on this Planet Earth?

Well, it seems once you get past the third density, it becomes very clear that the way to progress in your own learning is to help others, others that may not know as much as you, others that are calling for assistance. On this planet, apparently we are calling very devoutly and very stringently—we need help because we’ve been confused for so long. So many people have gone in so many different directions, there’ve been so many thousands of years of wars and degradations of the planet itself through pollution and so forth, that by that very ignorance and lack of knowledge, we’re calling for assistance.

And Ra said it’s just as if some part of their body would be calling for assistance; that there might be a scratch or wound that needs attention and that they cannot ignore that. The call is heard throughout the universe. Those who are willing and able, and nearby, as Ra was, to be of assistance, that’s the way all of these social memory complexes, all these group minds in higher densities—this is the way they learn. They learn and grow by helping others that are not as far along as they are. It’s sort of like each one, teach one, and that’s the way the progress of consciousness and the expansion of consciousness seems to work.

As a sixth-density social memory complex, does group Ra inhabit a particular planet?

They were on Venus for a great measure of time, but they decided at one point that they could be of more service by leaving Venus and going to the Sun. They mentioned that sixth-density entities, in what they call their reproductive action, which is what we would see as nuclear fusion, can produce light, and their offspring is light, which comes to this planet and is lifegiving. That’s why many in Egypt and in South America worshipped the Sun, because they saw it as the source of light and life. When the rays of the Sun reached Mother Earth, then they are able to blend in such a way that the qualities of life are able to begin. As I said, the first density, earth, wind, fire and water, they become changed—they become transformed and they can move into higher density and become the animals we see, and the animals become we, and we become more enlightened in the fourth density, so it’s a process that’s enabled by the Sun. And, there are other entities in the Sun body that are able to do the same thing. So, it’s an interesting thought that that is the reason why the Sun has been worshipped over millions of years throughout the universe, but thousands of years here on Earth.

And speaking of Egypt and their worship of the Sun God Ra, I understand that Ra actually came to our planet 11,000 to try to teach the Law of One.

That’s true, they had been in contact with the Egyptians for some time, telepathically, in their sleep and in their dreams. But then, at one point, they felt that it was appropriate to be able to walk the planet because at that time the Egyptians were—they saw the Creator everywhere. They were pantheistic. They saw all of nature and all the world around them as being part of the Creator. So, that was what was necessary in order for them to be able to attract those of Ra, to be able to see all that was as the Creator. That is basically the Law of One.

So, Ra did walk amongst them. They attempted to teach the Law of One. They helped them with constructing the pyramids, and helping to heal those entities that needed healing in the pyramids, to also have an initiation chamber which is what we call the “Queen’s Chamber,” and to teach entities that wanted to become adepts and wanted to become healers themselves, how to do that. Unfortunately, they also discovered that there were those of the royal variety, who desired to keep that information for themselves, and they actually would distort the information. Ra said that for every word they would speak, there were at least thirty distortions as to how people would perceive what was being spoken.

So, they were concerned that their mission there was not having the results that they’d hoped, and they decided then to leave the Egyptians and to retire to the inner planes of Planet Earth, and to assess what had been going on there, what had been happening—that the Law of One had not been purely perceived, only certain elements of it had been perceived correctly. And they desired then, from that point on, to try to make contact with whoever they could that could relieve and ameliorate the distortions that had been given to the Law of One by the Egyptians—especially the royal and the powerful. They decided to keep that for themselves, which is not in observance of the Law of One. The Law of One says that all people should have that information, it shouldn’t be kept only for the rich and the powerful.

So, later on, about 3,500 years ago in the 18th Dynasty, they were able to make contact telepathically with Akhenaten, who was able to decree the Law of One as the law of Egypt at that time. Now, he retired to Amarna, which was a city that was built specifically to promulgate the Law of One. He decreed it throughout the land, but his priests were still dyed-in-the-wool polytheists, and they didn’t quite want to go along with it, but he was the Pharaoh, so they gave lip service only. As soon as Akhenaten passed from this incarnation, they quickly reverted to the old pantheistic ways in doing as they’d done before he was there. But, at least Ra was able to make that contact. They felt that the telepathic contact was a much better way of communicating than the walking in person, because there were so many more distortions that were given to their teachings while they were in person than telepathically, so, that’s basically the reason that they felt that telepathic contact with our group would be much more efficient than any other type of contact.

And it most certainly is, and the volumes of information that you three were able to bring through is just so fascinating on so many levels, and so I would like to focus on some of those topics that were particularly impactful for me and on my spiritual journey. I think starting with 75,000 years ago, it seems like that was sort of a turning point for civilization on our planet, and I’d like to touch on that and talk about Yahweh and the Orion group.

Well, Ra said that there had been a population on the Planet Mars thousands of years ago that had also demonstrated the tendency towards warfare, and they had enough warfare there that they didn’t destroy their planet completely, but they rendered the atmosphere inhospitable to life, so it just so happened that at about that time the third density on Planet Earth was going to be starting its cycle.

Yahweh was a member of the Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator, this is the group of a great number, at least 500 different social memory complexes or planetary minds, and they’re based on the rings of Saturn, and there’s a Council of Saturn then that allows certain extraterrestrial activity to occur upon Planet Earth when there is a balance, and when it can help people and give them opportunities to learn. Yahweh was a social memory complex that wanted to try to help the Martian population to find another home so they decided to transfer them here to Planet Earth. And, that was at the very beginning of the 75,000 years. So, they did that, but they also thought that it might be helpful to this population from Mars if they could genetically change their coding so that they might be more able to perceive and practice the Law of One.

Now, this was something that was okayed by the Council of Saturn, but later on, they kind of discovered that maybe it wasn’t the best thing they could have done. But, it is what they did, so they did it both by what we would call cloning, and also by simple sexual reproduction—walking amongst them and mating with them, producing beings that were, they hoped, more able to perceive the Law of One and the unity of all creation. So, Yahweh became more or less the protector of these groups, and this, I guess you would say, this working with those of Yahweh and Mars was considered later on then to be the first infringement upon the free will of the Mars entities, and upon Planet Earth. So, this is where the first quarantine was put upon Planet Earth by the Council of Saturn. They felt that these entities from Mars had been given a little too much advantage, they had not necessarily used that advantage well, but they had too much of an advantage. So, they wanted to have this quarantine that would require a balance to be achieved by both positively and negatively oriented entities, that could then have contact with Planet Earth. If there was any type of positive contact, which there was with Yahweh, they were positively oriented, then negatively oriented entities would also have the equal opportunity to make contact.

Now, Ra speaks of how, when you go through this choice-making density we have on Planet Earth now, you can choose either to be of service to others, or of service to self. The Creator blinks neither at the light nor the dark. There are entities that can progress a certain distance in the evolution of their own mind/body/spirit complexes on the negative path by controlling others, and manipulating others, by separating themselves from others, and by following what Ra calls, “the path of that which is not,” the separation and control of others rather than unity and working with others and loving others. But, they can only go so far. They don’t make it past mid-sixth density because at that point you have to be able to see all other selves as the same as yourself, and the same as the Creator. So, at that point, they automatically switch polarities. But, through the fourth, fifth, and into the sixth density they are quite active and they do exist.

So, other entities of a negative nature decided to take advantage of this opportunity for balancing, which the Council of Saturn said was necessary in order to give everyone on Earth equal opportunity to choose either direction. Free will was paramount. It was necessary for free will to be able to be exercised by every person. So, negatively oriented entities decided to present themselves as Yahweh, they took the name Yahweh, and that is what you see in the Old Testament, of the vengeance-filled God, that says, “Do as I say, or I will destroy your cities and leave not one stone upon an other.” A lot of people are confused by what happens in the Old Testament there.

So, they had their chosen people. They chose a certain people and they decided that that would be their race, and that was the way negative polarity works. They choose an elite among a population on a planet, then they hope to be able to make the rest of the population follow that elite, and as that elite then is the able to govern, or rule the rest of the planet, then that power goes to the negative entities of an extraterrestrial order. That’s the way negativity works. If you look at the Army or any large corporation, unquestioned obedience to authority is negative polarity. So, the privates, all the work they do, goes up to the corporals, sergeants, captains, and further on up to the generals, the ones at the top end up with all the power. So, that’s basically, the way that works.

So, the name, Yahweh, was taken by the negative entities and used in order to further their own ends of adding to their empire. These entities were from the constellation of Orion. Now, this isn’t to say that the entire constellation is negative—it certainly is not. But there are planets within that constellation that are the home base for the negative-oriented entities. So, when we were experiencing the psychic greetings, or what other people would call “psychic attacks,” the Orion group was behind that as well.

We found that it was necessary for anyone that was serving as an instrument to be able to challenge any contact that might want to speak through it, in the name of whatever quality you feel is the most important in your spiritual journey. Now, for Carla, she had experiences with Jesus when she was two years old, so she challenged always in the name of Jesus. Other people might challenge in the name of love, in the name of service to others, in the name of the Christ Consciousness. You have to figure out what it is, if you’re going to be a channel or an instrument, that you challenge them, so that the negative entities do not take your light. Because when you produce light as you do when you channel, then that is seen on the inner planes as a power. And, the negative entities want that power.

So, that was basically what was happening when the negative entities decided to take the name Yahweh and use it for themselves.

So, can you clarify the actual nature of the true Yahweh?

The true Yahweh is a member of the Confederation of Planets in Service to the Infinite Creator, a very positively oriented social memory complex. And they took stock of their relations with the group from the red planet, Mars, and decided they would try to refine their ability to serve. So, they discarded the name Yahweh, and let the negative entities have it, and took another vibration that basically meant “He Comes.” So, I believe that this is—“He Comes”—we never knew this for sure, but it is my theory, this is Jesus, He Comes. Because Jesus came to make a new covenant. The old covenant, the Old Testament, had been distorted by the negative Yahweh, so the new covenant was put forth by the one who came, He Comes, and I believe that was Jesus. Ra said that the name Yahweh vibrated very much in accordance with Carla’s vibrations, because when she was a child, she had these experiences with Jesus in her magic kingdom, and she was only two years old, but she knew right then what unconditional love was. And, that’s why Yahweh had special meaning for her.

So then, what would the connection between Yahweh and Jesus be?

Well, the connection would probably be that one of the Yahweh entities became what is called “a wanderer,” and came to Planet Earth and became the one we know as Jesus, or what Ra called “Jehoshua”, and some others called “Jeshua”. So, that was basically the relationship.

And would Yahweh inhabit a particular area of the galaxy or planet? Is it a group? Group Yahweh?

It’s a group mind. What Ra called a social memory complex. We don’t know exactly where they’re from, but we do know that they’re probably still with Planet Earth because they feel responsible for much of what has occurred on Planet Earth, having transferred the Mars entities here, so they felt that they needed to stay here and… I have a hunch they’re doing the same thing that Ra does, and that is pretty much working behind the scenes. Most of the UFO contacts that are reported nowadays are negatively oriented. The UFO entities of a positive nature tend to work behind the scenes, to contact people in dreams, or in meditation, or in those little “aha” or inspirations, intuitional flashes that you get, and they tend to do that work in that fashion rather than in the open as has been done in the past.

Ra discovered walking among the Egyptians really didn’t work that well, and Yahweh discovered that interacting with the entities from Mars as they did, sexually reproducing stronger, more intelligent entities didn’t work that well, so what seems to work better is telepathic contact, imagery, dreams, and so forth.

Can you speak to what other type of life was on the planet 75,000 years ago when the Martians came around?

Well, there was just about everything you see here now, plus a whole lot more species that have been extinct since then. We asked Ra once why the Logos of our particular Milky Way Galaxy decided to invest the second density ape form with the ability to become the third-density being that we are. We have apparently come from that line of creatures, and Ra suggested that the opposable thumb that allows the ape to hold tools, is something that would make it necessary for them to go away from being able to speak telepathically and able to speak verbally, and to increase the ability of entities to polarize.

Oddly enough, this ability to speak telepathically, to be able to see all of creation as one thing, was possible in other third densities, and they did not have a veil of forgetting. They could see that the Creator was in everybody. Everybody was the Creator. There was nothing that was not the Creator. But they had a difficulty in polarizing in consciousness and moving out of the third density because they were basically in a state of bliss. There was no reason for them to move forward in their evolutionary growth. So, other Logoi decided that if you put a veil of forgetting between the conscious and the subconscious mind, so that the jewels of the creation were hidden, and you could not see easily that all was one, that love made the creation, that it was made out of light, then you would have to work—you would have to work hard to get to that understanding—you would have to work into your own understanding, you’d have to work to penetrate that veil, and it is semi-permeable. You can do it, through meditation, through hypnosis, through dream imagery and so forth.

So, that actually—putting a veil between the conscious and the subconscious minds, and making it more difficult to see the unity of all creation made it more effective in polarization. That was basically what was happening when the ape form was chosen, and the necessity for moving away from telepathy to spoken words was a possibility because of being able to hold tools in its hand would make it necessary for it to speak rather than—how exactly that worked I’m not sure, but Ra said that’s what was working there. So, that would allow us as the descendants of the ape form to be able to have a more effective polarization in our own consciousness, because we would have to work to discover those concepts of unity, of love, of light, that bring us all together as one being. So, once we are able to do that then we have accomplished a great deal more than could ever have been accomplished with the veil out of—without the veil.

How evolved were the third density beings on the planet at that time?

At that time there were second density beings that were later able to transfer into the third density. But, apparently, those of the red Planet Mars were the first third-density beings. Later on, there were other third-density beings transferred here from other third-density planets that had not been able to make their graduation on the third-density planets—they had to repeat the cycle, so they came to Earth to repeat it. Ra suggested that there were sixteen different planets of that nature who had their graduation and not all had been able to graduate so they needed to come to Earth to continue the lessons. So, there is at least sixteen different planets that have given their population to Earth which is probably one reason why we’re all so various. We have a lot of different types of cultures. And probably another reason why we have not gotten together more easily as a planetary consciousness because it’s easy to stay with the racial memory of what you vaguely remember from those other third-density days on another third-density planet.

And then moving toward the time of Egypt, can you speak to the Anunnaki or the Nephilim, who apparently came to our planet?

I’ve heard about those from Wynn Free, and they actually didn’t make it into the Ra contact, but there were entities of that nature that came from other planets and have had an experience here. I don’t have a lot of information about that. Wynn was the one who was really into that information, but the basic thing there, is that they are from other planets—that they have been able to progress here on this planet, and they’ve probably been more successful than some who’ve come from other planets that lent their population to this third density.

Okay, then another thing I read in your book about the Martian people is that they have a connection to the Bigfoot on our planet.

[Chuckles] Well, yeah, it seems that there are a number of entities—well, actually, there’s another planet too—there used to be a planet where we have the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. There was a planet there called Maldek, and that planet had warfare as a predominate way of being just like Mars did, but they destroyed their planet through nuclear warfare, and they and some from Mars were then transferred to the inner planes of the Earth so that they would always be third density in their mind/body/spirit complexes, but there weren’t enough third-density bodies of the ape form for them to inhabit, so they had to kind of go into a waiting pattern and become entities we would see as being Bigfoot—be somewhat difficult to see, to trace, to track in any way, to know for sure that they existed, but over the years they’ve been able to make the transition into the third density, and have taken up residence on this planet as third-density beings.

And, it is our feeling that just as those of Atlantis had warfare and destroyed their continent—actually sunk the continent—that these entities from both Mars and Maldek are working their way through restitutions, and attempts to make up for destroying their planet and having warfare for thousands of years, and are still here now working as probably a lot of the leaders of our governments and in the military as well, trying to once again decide how they can use nuclear energy in a peaceful means, because that was the way it was given to this planet, through the inspiration of the scientists that were gathered to try to find out other ways of powering our planetary needs.

You mentioned Atlantis. Can you expand upon the information Ra shared with you about Atlantis and Lemuria?

Well, Lemuria was apparently a population of entities that lived about 53,000 years ago. They came a great deal before Atlantis. Ra mentioned that they were from a planet that had difficulty with its Sun. It was an older Sun and had difficulty making the third-density vibrations hospitable or able to be lived in by these entities, so they were transferred to Earth and that they became what we call the entities of Deneb. We would see them technologically as being rather primitive. But Ra said they had very advanced spiritual paths, very advanced spiritual journeys and ways of looking at the world. So, they were successful pretty much in the way that they wanted to progress, but through no fault of their own, the tectonic plates at the time of 50,000 years ago began to shift, and Lemuria also sunk beneath the waves and was no more. So, then, various entities from their population and from other third-density planets seeking to repeat their third density on Earth, became part of what we would call Atlantis.

Atlantis was a population that began about 15,000 years ago, and just like the Lemurians, they began as an agricultural population, and were very slow growing until about 10,000 years ago when they became technologically advanced. There were some contact with the entities of Atlantis by the Confederation and they gave them information that unfortunately the Atlanteans, once again, began to use in a manner that did not further the growth of their population as a whole. They started using these energy sources to create lifeforms which they had a combination of various humans, birds, reptiles, various forms of life there—they did that rather than use the energies and the technology that they’d been given by the Confederation for enhancing the spiritual evolution of their peoples.

So, once again, the pattern of warfare between various groups of Atlanteans took place, and there were various wars. Ra mentioned that about 10,200 years ago, the first of the great Atlantean wars occurred and 40% of the population of Atlantis was no more because they were killed by nuclear warfare. And then, 9,600 years ago, the last of the great Atlantean wars took out the rest of the continent. But there were positive entities; it wasn’t all a negative society. Just like we have now, there were a great many positive entities that did what they could to help the entire population. So, those entities saw what was coming—they basically saw the handwriting on the wall, and some of them went to areas in Northern Africa, some went to Turkey, and some of them went to Tibet. So those areas still have a spiritual lineage that reaches back all the way to Atlantis.

Fascinating. And I hear there’s a possibility for beings to live in the inner Earth?

Apparently the inner Earth is not solid all the way through—it’s honeycombed. And Ra mentioned that there had been societies and civilizations that did live there, and that actually, one of the sixth-density group entities that came with Ra about 10-11,000 years ago, helped build these, what are called, “the lost cities,” down in the area of South America. There are cities there that were inhabited, and Ra even mentioned that there have been some graduates from Planet Earth, entities that were in those cities, that have been able to graduate into fourth density, and they’re also members of this Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator. So, they said that the time that we were I contact with Ra that those entities were no longer in those cities, that those cities were used by basically both positively and negatively oriented extraterrestrials for housing their craft. So, those cities are still being used, but that was 36 years ago. Things may have changed. There may be entities down there now that have found those cities, I don’t know. I haven’t heard anybody say that, but 36 years ago there were no third-density entities there.

Ahh. I’ve read some literature that Lemurians are living in the inner plane and these would be surviving Lemurians who fled to the inner Earth at the time of their continent’s destruction.

They were apparently successful in their polarization, because they have gone on.

Yes, okay, very interesting. Yes, and then naturally I’d like to talk about Egypt, and the influence they had there, and it sounds to me like really—was Ahmentah one of the more significant figures? How would they have been remembered by the Egyptians and maybe talked about in the Egyptian pyramid texts?

Well, there’s Horus, the Hawk-Headed God of the Sun is one of the major Egyptian figures of mythology throughout the Egyptian past, and reaches back thousands of years, so that this worship of the Sun seems to be something that occurred—well, Ra said their first contact with the Egyptians was 18,000 years ago, so they were able to see the Egyptians, and the Egyptians were able to see their craft because as far as the Egyptians were concerned, the world was filled with very many wondrous things, miraculous things, so seeing a UFO in the air did not surprise them at all.

But, they didn’t land then, Ra waited for 11,000 ago to make their landing. But, they were attracted by the basic seeking of the Egyptians. Amon-Ra and various others, Amon-Hotep—well, most of the powerful of the elite at that time were involved in some sort of worship of the Sun. So, this basic quality of worshipping the Sun is something that Ra was aware of and was hoping to be able to respond to in a way which they eventually did with the Egyptians 11,000 years ago, but then I think they thought that the contact they had with Akhenaten was probably the most promising of the contacts because it was telepathic, and for a while the Law of One was the actual law of Egypt, but I think the Egyptians throughout history have been able to see the Creator in all things through their pantheistic worship in a way that was eventually able to get those of Ra to come to them and to attempt to teach them the Law of One.

And it seems like they talked about gods who walked among them, and also gods who mated with the humans and created demi-gods, and that all seemed very prevalent in their literature.

In their literature, and if you go back into the Genesis of the Bible that it’s mentioned there that the entities walked among the Earth and they mated with people that were already on the Earth. You wonder now, “Who were they mating with, who is this?” It has to be Yahweh at that time and if you look at—Ra said at the beginning of the 75,000 period, the average lifespan for the human being on Planet Earth was roughly 900 years, which today sounds totally outrageous. But if you look at the Book of Genesis, they talk about the beings there that lived 930 years, 875 years, 910 years, so that tells me that the Book of Genesis is a very old book and I wonder exactly where it comes from. We never asked Ra that, but Ra did say that by the end of the first 25,000 year cycle, lifespans had been reduced to 700 years. But, eventually, by the third cycle it’s down to about 100 years.

The reason for that was because the chances for growth were not being taken advantage of, that there was too much disharmony on the planet, and that there was only so much disharmony that was possible to take in in an incarnation, so that incarnations had to be shortened so that this disharmony could be handled, hopefully, and the time period in between incarnations then could be used to plan more learning in a future incarnation. But if you look at the beginning of the cycle 75,000 years ago, lifetimes were 900 years apparently, and all of that lineage is traced throughout Genesis. They go through a very exhaustive listing of who begat whom, and who begat whom, all the way through hundreds of those.

So, that’s a fascinating part that not only is in the Egyptian literature, but in the Christian mythology, and in the Jewish mythology as well, because basically the Old Testament, if you look at the Jewish Torah, that that’s basically the Old Testament, and in Islamic traditions, if you look at the Koran, it has much of the Old Testament in it as well, with the same sort of information. So, all of these cultures are drawing from the experience of the first 25,000 years that occurred on Planet Earth, with extraterrestrial entities mating with the population of Earth.

And it seems like they talked about giants walking among them, as well.

The giants were those entities that came from the mating of Yahweh with the entities from Mars, they were Anunnakim and large beings—we don’t know exactly how large, but they were called giants those days on Earth, and that was part of the advantage that the mating with those of Yahweh was supposed to give, not just a physical advantage but they would have the equivalent of a mental and a spiritual advantage as well. And, of course, that again, is what brought on the quarantine so that there would be a filtering of the kinds of contact of extraterrestrials on Earth, both positive and negative.

What did you just call the names of the giants.

The Anunnakim. Anunnaki is one of the names that’s given to them, and the Sons of Levi was also another group of entities. They weren’t necessarily giants but they were also progeny of those entities of Yahweh and the third density entities that were on Earth that were hopefully going to be able to receive the Law of One in more usable terms, in more efficient terms.

And then I think the term Nephilim is used in the Bible.

It is, but I don’t have a great deal of information on that so I can’t say too much on that.

Okay, so I can’t help asking, who built the Great Pyramid?

Well, it’s interesting that you ask that, because when I went out to Oregon to join Paul Shockley, we kept in contact after I came back here to Kentucky. So, when he discovered that we had the contact with Ra, he had gotten basic information that he had been helping somewhat with either preparing the people of Egypt to be ready to receive those of Ra and consider the Law of One, and also that he was aware that during one of his incarnations, he saw entities that were visible from the waist up, but not visible from the waist down, and they were helping to construct the pyramids. So, he sent two questions to us to ask Ra, and we asked them. So, at the beginning of session 27, there’s this very interesting information that Ra said that those entities that Paul saw that were visible from the waist up, but not from the waist down, were actually their social memory complex. They were using their ability to contact what they call “intelligent infinity” or the Creator, basically, to get the power that is available throughout the universe at various levels. They were using the higher density levels to create what we see as the pyramid, and they said they built it with what they called “everlasting stone.” This is stone that would last forever that was created in place.

It wasn’t hauled there—there’s no mystery as to how the stones were placed there. They were placed there mentally. And Don said, “Well, why does it look like the pyramid is made and not thought.”

And Ra said, “Well, we did not mean to infringe upon anyone’s freewill by saying that there was a miraculous building of the pyramid through thought rather than being constructed.” So the stones appear to be very carefully and closely placed together, but they were actually thought into place, and Ra called them “everlasting stone,” and they were actually the product that Ra had created, and they created them in order to give the Egyptians a means by which they could both heal entities that were in need of healing, and initiate entities that wished to become healers and wished to study more of the Law of One upon the higher realms, you might say.

And I believe I read that it was built overnight?

It was built very quickly. They coincided the building of those pyramids telepathically with the incarnation of Imhotep, who was a great architect at that time. He was later deified for his supposed role in building the pyramids, so they planned it quite well to be in conjunction with his incarnation.

And then the other two pyramids?

The other two pyramids were apparently built over a period of time by other entities in a more, what you would say, “ordinary,” fashion, placing one stone upon another. It was just the great pyramid itself is the one that was built with everlasting stone by thought.

Did the pyramid serve any other energetic or electromagnetic purpose, other than the healing and initiation?

Well, there are apparently places along—Ra suggested that if you divide each side of the pyramid into four equal pyramids, you can do that fairly easily—take that one pyramid in the middle and extend it into the pyramid on all four sides, there are places inside there that can allow people to gain perfect rest, in other words, to become younger, to go back in time, to either preserve their current age or to become actually younger. So, this could lead to a longer life period, and to allow entities to be able to use more of the catalyst of the incarnation, to grow more effectively, and to progress in that fashion.

There is also some use of the pyramid for travel. If you look at the top of the pyramid being as similar to a candle, there is an invisible energy that comes out there that entities of higher densities can use for travel, so also entities that trained as initiates in the pyramid could use that for travel as well, and also energizing for—becoming more energetic and being able to work with the spirit more effectively.

So the shape of the pyramid is obviously very conducive to drawing in energy from the cosmos?

It is. And Ra said it doesn’t even have to be a solid-sided pyramid—all it has to be is the frame of the pyramid. Take clothes closet dowel rods and construct a pyramid and get the same effect because it’s metaphysical energy the you’re working with, it doesn’t have to be solid sided. Although Ra said if you want to live in a pyramid, it’s a good idea to have the solid sided.

And what happened to the capstone?

Well, apparently the royal and powerful Egyptians that decided they were going to keep the Law of One for themselves took the old capstone, which Ra said they provided, and it was made out of granite, they felt granite had the crystalline qualities that would be best for the pyramid. And so, the rich and the powerful took that away and replaced it with a gold one. Ra said it didn’t change the functioning of the pyramid at all, but it made it a symbol of the royal and the powerful.

And I was under the impression that the capstone was missing altogether now.

Well, that, I don’t know. I have to tell you a do not know that. I’d say it would be quite a feat for someone to steal the capstone.

So, what I wanted to do is kind of move from Egypt into maybe Greece, and then into more modern civilization, and then we’ll wrap it up by talking about where we’re at now, and obviously the next time we speak, we’ll talk about the harvest, what you can do to prepare for the harvest, and then we can get into some of the more spiritual principles as far as like working with the rays and the chakras and meditation and the Law of One and the Law of Love, and such like that. Does that sound good?

Yeah, it sounds really good.

Okay. Moving out of Egypt and into more modern times, if you will, I’d like to talk about Greece, and some of the amazing gods and goddesses of Greek mythology. Did you receive some information about that from Ra?

No, actually we did not receive that information, but I have a hunch that the gods and goddesses at that time were probably extraterrestrials of one nature or another, because apparently the Greeks, the one mention we got from Ra, was that they had some teachings of the Law of One that were very prominent in that time period—one was Heraclitus and Plotinus and Euripides, all were teaching the Law of One, and that was probably about 2,000 or 3,000 years ago, so that’s much more modern, and I guess that would be called the “Golden Age of Greece.”

And speaking of ages, I’d like to touch on the common, well, common amongst the metaphysical community, about the Yugas, and these ages that we go through from ages of enlightenment to the dark ages. Do you have insight about that?

Well, I’ve understood that some of the Yugas are shorter in time period—about 2,500 years, and that we’re in the last one now, and that this is basically the information that comes from the Hindu teachers of the Far East that had been very well versed in these areas for a long time, they’re probably the spiritual grandparents of our planet. I don’t have a lot of information about it, but Ra said that every cycle has a sub-cycle, and it keeps going down to smaller and smaller sub-cycles, so that we have time periods that are the equivalent, you might say, as to the clock of the seconds, the minutes, the hour, the day, the month, the year, and so forth. The master cycle is 75,000, the major cycle is 25,000. The Yugas, I believe are 2,500. Other than that, I don’t have any information.

Yes, and so these cycles, the 12,500 sort of on a descending arc, and then 12,500 on an ascending arc, going from dark ages to enlightened ages, it seems would be a 25,000 cycle, and maybe a sub-cycle of 75,000 cycle.

That does make perfect sense. It makes sense to me.

And it almost feels like it’s geographical too, to where our solar system may be in the galaxy going from cycles of the night into cycles of the light, and some people talk about the photon belt, and that’s where our solar system is during ages of enlightenment, but fascinating how the correlation between the 25,000 years and the master cycle of 75,000.

Definitely. And Don mentioned something, or questioned Ra about the great circle in the sky, the wheel in the sky that moves, and I think he was talking about the same thing there, it’s how we are moving through space, and time, in our evolution on Planet Earth, and Ra said that the cycles end and begin like the striking of an hour of clock, so that it’s actually quite synchronized. There’s really nothing accidental about it, it works very carefully and concisely.

And it seems those in the third density during these times when the solar system enters this photon belt, that it’s sort of our opportunity to get off of the third-density incarnations and move into a higher density.

Right. Ra mentioned that any entity can harvest him or herself and move forward at any time, but usually positively-oriented entities that are great sages and saints and mystics through the years, I believe have been able to do that, but when a positively-oriented entity does that, they don’t usually choose to move on, they choose to stay here and help their brothers and sisters do the same thing. Negatively-oriented entities, they move on, they’re in it for themselves, but positive entities stay right here and help out. And there was one race of beings in South America that Ra referred to as “the Elder Race” or “the brotherhood and sisterhood,” that had been able to graduate, but there were only 150 of them, but they decided to stay and to help their fellow entities who had not been able to graduate, and we got the names of a couple of them that were familiar in their history, St. Augustine, St. Francis, St. Theresa, were apparently all of the monastic background from that time thousands of years ago, and incarnated again in the same milieu in order to help others to graduate as well.

It seems like there has been groups who have disappeared off the planet, sort of inexplicably over time, and the Mayans would be a good example, and maybe the Anasazi, can you speak to that?

Well, I think you’re probably right. I don’t have information, I don’t have anything to say, really, about that, other than I think it’s probably the way things are, that things have worked that way, that truth is a lot stranger than fiction, and having people do that, to move off the planet as a group, is probably something that has happened.

Did the Ra give you insight as to the Mayan race?

No, we never got information about that except that there had been pyramids built in South America that had the same fate, basically, as the ones in Egypt, and that was in the beginning they were used for very positive senses, they were used to help people to grow and be of service to others, then in later times there was actually human sacrifices that occurred on the pyramids.

And what about the Nazca Lines?

The Lines of Nazca were an interesting thing for Don. He had been investigating a lot of these paranormal phenomena for years. So, when Ra mentioned that both the heads at Easter Island and the Nazca Lines, Don was very curious. So, apparently, they were built by negatively-oriented entities who wanted to inculcate the concept of power in these statues and in the lines, and that would help them to be able to control the primitive tribes, primitive mentally, that inhabited that area, so these statues and lines were sort of like the minions or the tools, by which the negative entities used to exercise control. So, Don said, “But the lines of Nazca aren’t discernable on the surface, if you walk there you just see some disruption of the ground, you have to be at a high altitude to see there’s actually an image there, a picture.”

And Ra said, “Yes, well they were built 60,000 years ago, so there was a lot of erosion that took place, so now they’re just a shadow of what they were then, but at 60,000 years ago, they were quite powerful hills and mountains.”

So, you talked about the Easter Island figures, so what about Stonehenge?

Stonehenge we didn’t get any information on, but that’s fascinating. Carla and I visited Stonehenge in 2004, and really felt the energy of the area. It felt very positive to us. It felt like this was ancient human civilization that was making contact with energies that were quite powerful and still apparent, and I would like to know a whole lot more about it. We didn’t ask Ra about that.

And so let’s go back to how when our solar system enters the photon belt or moves into an age of enlightenment, or even the end of a cycle, that these times would be an opportunity for a large percentage of the population to move into a higher vibrational frequency, to move into a higher density, and so you refer to this in the book as a “harvesting.” Can you expand upon the concept, and then in our next discussion we’ll expound on that more.

Well, the harvesting is kind of the final product, you might say, of the 75,000 years of experience that each mind/body/spirit complex, each person has on Planet Earth. We’re all here to learn certain lessons. Here, we’re trying to use our self-consciousness to learn the lessons of love. We’re trying to learn how to love each other, to love ourselves, and to love the Creator and to see that each person is the Creator. We enter into a number of incarnations—hundreds, perhaps thousands—on this planet and other planets. And each time we attempt to learn a little bit more of these lessons that show us more of the nature of the creation.

So, we have our various energy centers, the red through the violet, and since we’re on a third-density planet, we pretty much have an easier access to the red, orange and yellow, those three lower centers are what we start from here. This is sort of our beginning place, we have the opportunity then to attempt, during a lifetime, and now we’re at the end of a cycle, we have the chance to move into the heart center, into the green ray energy center. And this is something that is not that easy for a lot of people to do.

But we find that there are more and more people now that are able to, I guess you’d say, take advantage of the wide spots in the road, you look at the photon belt, or any sorts of meteor showers, or you look at your astrological forecast, you look at your biological rhythms, there are certain places that are wide spots in the road that maybe it’s a little easier to move there, maybe that you can make a little more progress there, but eventually, everyone becomes a spiritual seeker of one kind or another.

The conscious spiritual seeker who knows he or she is a spiritual seeker is the one who is very likely the one who is going to be able to make progress whether there’s a wide spot in the road or a narrow spot in the road, because they are aware of the overall process—the process of using the daily experiences that come your way—people you meet, how you interchange energies, all of those experiences are opportunities for you to produce gold. It’s the alchemical process of producing love from what maybe seems to be disharmony, maybe disagreement, maybe anger, maybe confusion. All of these experiences that seem to be negative or seem to be confusing all offer the opportunity for the spiritual seeker to process it, to use the catalyst to think about it, to ponder it in the heart, to put it into practice in daily life experience, and to make experience out of it, to make it something that you can rely upon, that you can use again in the future. So, as we continue processing our catalyst, and responding to all catalyst with love, then we continue growing in a way that we will be able to go into the fourth density of love and understanding.

Ra said that if we are able to take 51% of our thoughts, of our words and our actions, and turn just 51% in service to others, we are harvestable; we can graduate. Now, that doesn’t seem like it’s too tough, that’s just 1% more than for the other guy. So, if we can do that, if we can be 51% successful in processing our catalyst, and giving love instead of anger, giving love instead of confusion, of making love what we are looking for and the way we look at the world, if we can look at the world through the lens of love, then we’re doing what Ra said was always possible. We have love in every moment—that’s the great secret here on the planet. Love exists everywhere at every moment. It’s our job to try to find it, and if we can’t find it, then produce it ourselves. So, by doing that, we open our hearts to others around us, we open our hearts to the Creator, we open our hearts to the creation itself, we open our hearts to ourselves, we have to love everybody, ourselves included.

But, this whole process is a process of growing and maturing as spiritual beings, so that eventually we can make the harvest. And Earth, apparently as negative as it seems right now, Ra says it’s going to become a fourth-density positive planet, that that population that is able to find love in the moment 51% of the time will create a social memory complex, they’ll create a group mind here on Earth. And that will be what the population of Earth will become, and there will be many other locations around the universe that will come here because it looks like right now that the population will be a small population, but there is always the possibility—Ra said, “Could your population polarize in one fine, strong moment of inspiration, and everybody become positive?” Ra said, “It’s not probable, but it’s ever possible.” So, I think there’s still a lot of people working for that end, people on the inner planes, people here in the third density, are all working to get everybody into the fourth density, whether you’re seeming positive or seeming negative, everybody in. That was Carla’s thought, “Everybody in.”

Yes, and speaking of Carla, I had the distinct pleasure to interview her a few years ago, and such a delightful being, and bless her dear, precious, beloved, departed soul. Part of the reason for doing this interview is certainly to honor her and to honor Don, and the other is to discuss this most important topic at this very critical time for humanity of the harvest, and we’ll expand upon that more in the next session.

I also want to talk more about the other books, and a couple of books that Carla offered, Living the Law of One 101: The Choice, and also this latest book that you have compiled and is now available, Tilting at Windmills, and so we’ll talk about some of those books and the information in them, and give people some more really valuable insight about what they can do to raise their light quotient and raise their vibrational frequency so that they can make the cut.

All right, that sounds good.

Okay, very good. Well, thank you so very much, my dear, I sure appreciate your time and all your incredibly valuable insight.

Well, thank you so much. It’s been a real pleasure for me too, I’ve really enjoyed it.