Debbie West – Host Michael Hathaway – Co-Host

Here we are today on Lost Knowledge, and I’m your host Debbie West. I have co-host, Michael Hathaway on with me today. Michael, how are you?

I’m fine and excited about our guest today.

Okay, we’ll jump right into it. Our guest today is Jim McCarty and he is part of the 3 person Law of One – I guess basically they were a group of 3 who were involved with being contacted by Ra, and channeling the Law of One material that right now is really getting popular, Michael. I see it more and more on the news, and different U-Tube videos of what is the Law of One, and what does it mean to us if we’re transforming into a new Earth – and I think it’s so wonderful that they did what they did at a time when it was available to them, and now we kind of rediscovering what we already knew.

Post 2012 and I think a lot of the visionaries that came through in the 80’s and 90’s, even (Edgar) Casey’s predictions… fascinating to see it all play out now.

Yea… so without further ado I’m going to introduce Jim McCarty and let him just talk a few minutes about Law of One and how he got involved and then Jim, we’re going to break after just a few minutes and come right back after a commercial break so… Jim, welcome to the show. We’re so glad to have you here today.

Hi Debbie, Hi Michael… good to be here. I first became involved with Don Elkins and Carla Rueckert back in 1978. I’d moved to Kentucky from Nebraska as part of the back to the land movement where people were going back to the land to simplify their way of life. We formed food buying co-ops in the area, and discovered there was a meditation group over on the other side of the county. So I got interested in that, and I met the folks there and they said they were from Louisville, KY and if I liked, I could go up to Louisville and meet Don and Carla, which I did, and we hit it off right away. There was something special about looking into Don’s eyes as I was going into the apartment I shook his hands. He was 6’5“ and I’m 5’7“ so I was looking up and he had these very blue eyes that just kind of penetrated me so I thought well, that’s interesting. So I listened to the message that was being channeled that night from the Confederation – it was very inspirational, and I decided to go up there every weekend. So I travelled the 70 miles from central KY where I lived to Louisville, and I made the trip every week, got to know Don and Carla, helped them move into their new location which was the place where we eventually had the Law of One Ra contact and the Law of One information was transmitted. I decided to sell my land and join forces with them which I did in 1980. Three weeks after I joined them the Law of One began with the Ra contact, and as it happened, I was out shopping that day while they were teaching another student how to channel when all of a sudden this entity called Ra came through… and if you look at the first session of the Law of One there was one place where they said we must pause to deepen the instrument’s contact.

This is so exciting. We’ll be right back with Jim McCarty.

[Commercial break.]

Jim, we had a caller on the show a couple of weeks ago and we talked a lot about who Ra is, Ra being a social memory complex from the 6th density or what I call a group soul, comprised of, I think they said 38 million souls from the planet Venus who contacted Earth to help us in our spiritual evolution process. Would you say that would be sort of a good summary of Ra?

Yes, that’s a good summary. Ra, when they were at the same level of experience that we are now in the 3rd density on Venus, they were contacted by entities in the 6th density, and they found it very helpful. So they were observing planet Earth for quite some time. Apparently, 18,000 years ago they were in the skies over Egypt but did not make contact. They were able to be seen by the Egyptians but the Egyptians weren’t quite ready for contact. They waiting for what amounted to be another 7,000 years and 11,000 years ago they felt that the Egyptians were putting out the appropriate call for them to be able to respond in person. So at that time they landed their craft, and attempted to teach the Law of One in person.

So just to summarize again for anybody that’s new to the Ra materials the Law of One, essentially talks about a unity consciousness and how we could make our lives simpler by understanding this universal law that is… I don’t know, can you explain it because it seems so simple to me but I guess we could put it in a few words or less?

Yes, their basic message simply is that all is one, everything that exists: every person, everything, every thought is part of one infinite Creator. The Creator made all of this creation and everything in it for the simple reason It wanted to know more about Itself. It made all of this creation and gave every part free will to do as it would. So when we go through each density of experience to learn the various lessons there, we’re creating a kind of what you might say is a harvest, a way for the Creator to know Itself, and also a way for us to know the Creator, and a way for us to know ourselves as all one thing.

Right. So you have to understand, you kind of have to have the concept that we are all one so what we do to ourselves we do to others, and when we look out into others, we’re looking at ourselves… a sort of mirror reflection of ourselves. Is that right?

That’s right, and actually Ra described one way that we learn is by the mirroring effect. We look at other people and we have responses, either positive or negative or neutral, and whatever response we have to them is basically a response we have to some portion of ourselves… and we can use that response, we can use that catalyst in our everyday round of activities to grow. Ra gave certain exercises in sessions 4, 5, and 6 where we can use meditation to use that catalyst and be able to gain experience and to grow spiritually from what happens to us every day.

And they are very compassionate towards earthlings because they’ve been through this and they understand the polarity, the choice that we’re in, the density that we’re in is not always that easy… it’s what Michael terms spiritual boot camp being here on earth.

Oh yes, indeed. This is the only density of forgetting. In this density we have a veil of forgetting between our conscious and subconscious mind. This allows the experience we have here to carry much more weight in our total beingness. If we didn’t have that veil, and knew everything was totally one, there would be very little reason to do anything differently from what we’re doing. So with that veil there we have the opportunity to go out and learn things that wouldn’t be possible without the veil. And there’s another reason why Ra has a great deal of compassion for this planet – we are a planet of what you might say repeaters. This master cycle, 75,000 years in a total of three 25,000 year cycles, and after that time the planet itself progresses and all the population either goes positively oriented or negatively oriented, or if they haven’t chosen a path then have to go to another planet like Earth and repeat. So apparently planet Earth is made up of a great deal, a great number of repeating planetary sources – apparently 16 or 17% according to Ra.

So when you talk about people moving on, you’re talking about the soul of the person reincarnating?

Right. So in the 4th density either positive or negative, service to others or service to self.

Jim, can you explain the word density? It’s kind of a dense term to me and if I was explaining it to the general public, how could I phrase that so others could get the meaning of what you mean?

Density refers to light. Everything is made of light. The free will of the Creator focused through the power of love, and formed light. If you look at free will going through love, it looks like light going through a prism where it’s broken into many different colors. Colors are the different densities we go through. Density refers to how much light is in each density. In the third density we have a certain amount of light. In the fourth density there will be more light, it will be more densely packed with light or information which is another way of looking at it.

How does that relate to wavelength?

Each person and thing is comprised of photons which are vibrating at a certain rate and certain angles of vibration so that different wavelengths of light are emitted from each person, each entity, and each thing. People who are sensitive to auras can see this light they can see the emanations of light from various people or things. So it refers to your state of being, the state of realization that you’ve achieved through your own efforts.

Now just one other question, I’ve noticed and seen a lot of channelers really as they go through a trance state there seems to be a conflict in densities as far as the toll on the human body. Do you agree with that?

Yes. Depending on the type of trance, and the type of contact being used, there is a toll. Carla would lose two to three pounds with each session. That was the material that Ra used to answer the questions that Don would ask. So Carla had to eat a great deal to keep her weight up. Her normal weight was about 105 pounds. During the Ra contact, she got down to 84 pounds, and had to eat more than ever before just to try to keep her weight on.


That is so interesting, the different densities, and that was one of the things that I wanted to get into because Ra talks a lot about density and dimension and uses those two words interchangeably, and I’m just going to throw another word in there which is time. So time and space in its relationship to density. I think Ra kind of explained it to you guys with Don’s questions, and I wondered if you could sort of elaborate a little bit on those concepts according to Ra.

Well, there are 8 basic densities of light. We call then red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet and then there is what we see as a black hole. Everything that is occurring during this octave of being goes into that black hole and becomes seeds for the next octave of being – there seems to be an infinite progression. But also within each density there are various portions or dimensions, in fact, there is an infinite number in each one (each density). There are various experiences that may be had. Most people are familiar with the inner dimensions, the inner planes where there is more of an emphasis upon time and less of an emphasis on space as there is in our normal third density reality. In our reality, we move about in space very freely, and time seems to be sequential with a past, a present, and a future. If you go into the inner realms, or higher densities, there is what Ra calls time/space as opposed to space/time where we are. The time/space in the inner realms focuses more on time and people can move about as freely in time as we move about in space. So the relationship between time and space determines whether one or the other is focused upon, and determines where you are and what types of lessons you’re learning. The inner planes, or the inner dimensions of our planet, offer other types of experiences than the outer planes or the space/time portions. Ra said the space/time portion was the visible, the physical, and the time/space portion was the invisible, the metaphysical.

So this information kind of tells us that we live in an illusion here on the Earth plane? That it is kind of a physical illusion that we live in which makes it seems that we’re in the only time that exists?


There’s really something else that’s bigger than all that, right?

Oh yea. I mean we do live in an illusion but we have to remember that everything is an illusion with a purpose. The reason the Creator made all of this creation as an illusion in that it seems to be different from the Creator but it is, in fact, the Creator in another form. So all of these illusions, the one we’re in, the one we’re going to move into, every other illusion has the purpose of providing us with a certain kind of catalyst or experience that allows us to grow even further, and our growth is usually dependent on how much service we’re willing to offer others, how much we’re able to open our hearts in service, and in compassion, love, and understanding. So everything is an illusion but it has a purpose, and that purpose is to help us grow and find the Creator.

I keep saying that we may be in an illusion here but at the same time we have some sort of a physical form that catches up on us and pulls us back to Earth when we step out beyond the bounds sometimes.

Well, the third density here is a very difficult density. Ra suggested that because we have that veil of forgetting that we have to start (each incarnation) from scratch to discover our spiritual nature, purpose and direction, and that there is a 100 times more catalyst, a 100 times more difficult to penetrate the illusion, to get to the heart of it here than there is in any other density. That is because we have a very important purpose here, and that is to make a choice to go either one way or the other, either positive or negative, service to others or service to self… to make that choice.

Did Ra say that the time it is now to make this choice? Is it this life time, current life time?

Well, we’re pretty close to the end of this master cycle of 75,000 years so yes, this is one of the last times we’re going to have to make that choice on this 3rd density planet. Again, like I said, if people don’t make that choice here they will have as much time as they need on another 3rd density planet or another and yet another. As long as you need, there will be 3rd density planets provided.

So let’s talk about planets for a minute because you brought it up. We think of Earth as the only inhabited planet, we thought that way for a while and we used to think it was flat and now all that has changed. Ra told us about a much greater universe. We’re starting to explore it and understand the galaxies and there may be trillions of galaxies I think. Can you explain that a little bit because I think physicists and astronomers are sort of catching up with Ra a little bit but we still don’t have quite a handle on it.

Well, the concept of infinity is one that is very difficult to grasp but Ra suggested that there are an infinite number of galaxies, and in all of these galaxies there are planets and suns, and stars. In our visible night sky, there are approximately 2,000 stars and each one has many planets circulating about it. Ra said there are probably 67 million inhabited planets available to us just by looking at stars in our night sky.

That number again?

67 million.

Inhabited planets. What does that mean?

That means there is some form of life on those planets that can continue on in the evolutionary process as we are on planet Earth.

Some form of intelligent life?


67 millions planets?


Okay. That’s a lot.

That’s a lot but you have to remember is that what we’re looking at is an infinite number of stars. Scientists say there are about 250 billion stars in our Milky Way galaxy. And Ra is suggesting that of all of those most are inhabited with some form of life – may not be a form of life that we recognize, but it is a form of life and it is intelligent and is moving along the trail of evolution.

Do you feel that there are certain people, beings, here on Earth at this time that have the knowledge to help assist others in this transition, that are here as part of a transition team?

There is a type of entity that Ra described as a wanderer. This is an entity that has already, at some other time on some other 3rd density planet, who has graduated from that 3rd density planet into either the 4th, 5th or 6th density, and because a way of growth is to be of service to others, if you’re on the positive path, these entities look for planets such as Earth who are giving out a call, a call for assistance. There is so much sorrow and suffering on this planet that it amounts to a call. When you look at the universe as being one being, Ra says that when there is a call like this from planet Earth it is as if a part of their own body is hurt, is wounded, and needs help, attention. So they send entities to incarnate here on planet Earth but they must also go through the forgetting process. They may not remember or may take a long time to remember or in some cases may not remember that they are from elsewhere, from a higher density but here to be of service. A great number of them do remember, and they become teaches of one kind or another. Many of the musicians and artists, and people of compassion around the Earth over the years are that type of entity. Ra suggested that about 200 years ago at the same time of the Industrial Revolution in this country, the influx of wanderers began, and has been on-going ever since. During the beginning of our Ra contact in 1981, Ra suggested that on planet Earth at that time, there were 60 million of these wanderers here to be of service to the planet.

That number has probably grown because I think there have been another wave since then, is that right?

I’m sure it’s grown a great deal. We see kids these days, the so called indigo children, and other children who are able to do what Uri Geller did which is so amazing – they can bend metal mentally, and are familiar with extra sensory perception. Ra says they are actually living in dually activated bodies, they have not only the 3rd density body but also the 4th density body. They are more able to be sensitive to the energies of the planet, sensitive to peoples’ needs, and to be desirous to be of service in whatever way they can.

There are people I know because hip top is one of my specialities, almost like time travelers. They have that ability to step through that veil, and to be at different time periods.

That’s true. I’m sure that the number (of wanderers) is growing, and we’ll see more the effects of these entities as the years go by.

So the questions that Don asked, some of them were very scientific and it’s very interesting to talk about the time/space so I just want to spend a couple more minutes on that if you don’t mind. One of the parts that people sort of have trouble comprehending right now is the idea and concept that there are all of these other inhabited planets, it’s how did they get here?

[Commercial break.]

Before the break, I was trying to have more of a discussion on this time concept because I think it relates to how we can understand a little bit more about how other beings can travel in and out of our dimension more quickly than we can currently understand it. Can you explain what that means? How their transportation system could work, and what it means to materialize… I think I heard that they materialize, they go around to other vibrations and materialize on Earth?

It’s much like what happens on a television set. They’re on a different wavelength, and they change their vibrations (or wavelength) in order to enter our atmosphere and are seen by us. We see many of these entities in what seem to be UFOs, but from Ra we discovered that actually for the positively oriented entities, very few of them actually use mechanical means to get here. Instead, they use metaphysical or spiritual means and focus upon what we see as a craft, a UFO. The use their minds to focus upon this craft because they don’t feel it would be appropriate to focus upon their own physical vehicles (bodies) and so just appear in the skies as entities because they feel doing so would be to infringe upon our free will. We are familiar with craft and being able to fly so they focus on a craft that can appear in our sky according to its vibration – it can be seen and then all of a sudden, it can disappear. They don’t go off into the distance and get smaller, it’s just poof and they are gone or poof and they are here. That is the way they move about. Now they can move in what Don called zero time. They can move great distances in zero time because as Ra said, the universe is all one being… and to an entity whose personality is disciplined the universe is one place and there is no bar on travel. So what this means is that if they had been able to balance their catalyst, as I was talking about earlier, through the various experiences and densities then they have a balanced being that is able to move freely about the universe using the power of thought, and it doesn’t take any time to move from one point to another because from their point of view all things are one thing.

I was reading some of the material which talked about the unified field theory, the Dewey Larson hypothesis. Is that what you’re talking about? Are we in science evolving to a point where we’re going to change the way we see things regards the physical universe?

I’m sure that’s going to happen. I have not personally kept track of what’s happening in the science field. Don was very excited about Dewey Larson’s philosophy because not only did it posit 3 dimensions of space, but also 3 dimensions of time. And by using those 3 dimensions of space and time together, Don was able to do the math and actually came up with the periodic table of all of the elements using Larson’s postulates. I’m not a physicist or scientist so I cannot explain that to you, but Don was totally excited about it. He taught physics and mechanical engineering for 10 years at the University of Louisville, and invited Dewey Larson to come and speak because he thought his work was so important and I believe Dewey had 8 or 9 books published before he died. Ra suggested that Larsonian physics was the physics of the 4th density, that it was able to explain a unified field theory which is what scientists have been looking for as the Holy Grail forever.

Are there any spots on Earth that you would consider to be portals or places where things can materialize easier or where you go into transit from one dimension to another?

I’m sure there are. We know that there are places where UFOs are more readily seen. In fact, there is one place in Ecuador where the local folks are so familiar with UFOs that for tourists they have put up a sign that this is a place to watch for UFOs. There are various places in the oceans apparently where there are entrances and exits into the inner Earth where both positively oriented and negatively oriented UFOs have been able to establish bases, and move about from those bases. Apparently there are also other areas where there are vortices where the grid of the Earth is of a nature that it has allowed different types of experiences to occur there. I’m pretty sure that if you were able to have a meditation there or were able to go into trance it would be much more easily accomplished at locations like that. People who are familiar with using pendulums or are sensitive themselves would be able to determine these areas where people have reported incredible experiences occurring there. They are all over the planet.

So Jim, you were talking just now about inner Earth, and bases across planet Earth – are those the types of things that was discussed by Ra in our channeling?

Yes. In session 64 Don was pretty much surprised when Ra mentioned that not only have the positively and negatively oriented UFOs been seen in our skies, but there were some from our own government, and that they were located in the arid regions of New Mexico, and Mexico where they are manufactured… and that just totally befuddled Don. He just could not believe that, and if you look into the information, he goes into a great deal of detail on his questioning because he just found that so incredible that our government had been manufacturing craft that could be mistaken for UFOs – they are not manned.

Yeah, that’s common knowledge now that was being brought up (the Ra sessions) ahead of its time. What did Ra have to say about beings in the inner Earth? There are civilizations there?

Well apparently there used to be civilizations there according to the Ra. In the 1980s or 1984 Ra said there were no civilizations there but there were entities there from elsewhere – both the positive and negative oriented ETs had bases there from which they operated, and that some of those were located in Mexico, some in Peru, some in Tibet and Turkey and that there were others around the planet that were associated with what Ra called “balancing pyramids” that had been built thousands of years ago by various ETs to attempt to rebalance the Earth’s electro-magnetic energy field because the various wars and hostilities that have been carried out on our planet for thousands of years had caused various ruptures in what Ra called the integument or surface of the planet, and that the planet itself was in need of healing. So these entities from those various bases began to build the balancing pyramids for the purpose of helping to rebalance and heal Earth.

So can we go back for a little bit… so Ra is talking from the Confederation of Planets from the infinite Creator, right?


On behalf of that (the Confederation & Creator). So the history of the Earth that we understand now is quite different than what we think it is. Is that right?

Yes. There have been civilizations on this planet far earlier than we thought. The Mu, the Murians, the Egyptians thousands of years earlier than we thought, the Atlantians and I imagine there would have been others if we had questioned more. Ra spoke about the Mu as being in existence 50,000 years ago which is far earlier than any scientific investigation has shown yet.

Well, we’re finding things on the surface of some of the pyramids like the one in Bosnia that show us that the pyramid was built 30,000 years ago from radio carbon dating on the surface. We haven’t gotten down deep enough into the tunnels to get materials for dating. It wouldn’t surprise me that very shortly we’ll understand those were built 50 to 75,000 years ago just as Ra said. How far back did he (Ra) go as far as Earth history – these civilizations, these ETs that were here on the planet, and the wars and stuff? Can you walk us through that a little bit?

Well, the third density experience with humanoids as we know them has been in existence for 75,000 years. But there were entities that were visiting planet Earth prior to that for millions of years. Earth has been a kind of stop-over point for what we would call ET sources, and they used it for various purposes which we did not go into detail in the questioning. We did discover there had been visitations here for quite some time. As far as the third density population, it began 75,000 years ago with an influx of entities that had been brought here from the Maldek, a planet within our solar system, that destroyed itself through nuclear weapons, and from Mars, a planet that rendered its atmosphere inhospitable due to the same war-like nature. Those entities began their experience here, along with entities from other planets, and slowly began to evolve. Ra suggested that after the first 25,000 year cycle there was no harvest in that no one had made a choice yet, they hadn’t figured it out to go either service to self or service to others. So for another 25,000 years there was a continuation of the experience on planet Earth and the population grew larger from the influx of other entities from other third density planets that had not been able to make the choice on those planets for a variety of reasons who were brought to Earth where they would try to make the choice here. It wasn’t until the end of the first 50,000 years of human experience here that there was a first harvest, the first entities who were able to make the choice of either going positive or negative. These entities all made the choice to be positively oriented, and decided that instead of going on the fourth density elsewhere that they would remain on planet Earth for as long as it took for everyone here to be graduated.

How many where those?

That was 150.

One five zero?

Yes, one five zero. This became a group of entities located in the Peruvian mountains known as the Brotherhood of the Seven Rays. A fellow by the name of George Hunt Williamson was able to channel Brother Philip who is a member of the Brotherhood of the Seven Rays. His work was recorded in “Road In The Sky,” and “Secret Places of the Lion” and other books he wrote.

So those 150 along with all the other entities or souls. Could the word entity be interchanged with soul?


Okay, so we’re souls and we’re all here now trying to make a choice, and have another harvest.

Yes, and hopefully it will be a little larger harvest. All around the planet there seem to be groups that are springing up and others that have been going for quite some time that are meditating, sending healing energy to the planet, involving themselves to being of service to those in areas that need help, food, medicine, shelter, etc. You read about people like this little kid in Canada who was 12 years old when he first started to raise money to help people in northern Africa drill bore holes to get water for their villages. Now he is 18 years old, has had millions of dollars contributed and done so well. There are kids and people like this all over the planet now who are doing things that are utterly amazing. They are being of service and the planet is lightening in vibrations and becoming a much nicer place although at the same time, there is this darkness about which is what we have been having to deal with for thousands of years, this war-like nature, aggression, and competitive consciousness that has not yet figured out the cooperative consciousness which is so much more effective and a lot more fun.

Laughs. That makes for a very strong polarity, and it makes the choice more imminent because the polarity is so obvious, right?

Right. Ra said that to them, the experience on planet Earth is very vivid, that the colors are very sharp, delineated and bright that the veil between the conscious and subconscious mind is working very well and we’re creating experiences here that are utterly amazing.


I’m finding a lot of people are very confused because they seem to be shifting in energy but they just can’t put a handle on what’s happening to them.

Well, it can be a confusing experience. When we talk with people who have questions about what to do – they don’t know what to do with their lives, they’re confused about which direction to go, our basic advice is to simply look at where you are, and look at what every day brings you as an opportunity. In your meditations every morning and evening, ask what is it that I need to do and the answer will be brought to you. Something as simple as smiling at someone on the street who may be feeling down and with a frown on their face, or stopping to help anyone who is in need such as fixing a flat tire… there are things that pop up every day if we just take the time to notice them, and that is what we suggest to people. Thank globally, act locally, is becoming a trite old saying but it’s so true. We can do things in our daily lives right where we are.

I have a little saying that came to me a couple of years ago from someplace that goes: I am loved, I am loved, I am loved, I am loved and I am loved. I repeat that many times a day with gratitude.

Yes, affirmations are very, very helpful.

And that sense of being a piece of that core that you talk about which, to me, is unconditional love. And if I can reach that and be a part of it, then everything I do is all based on that flow of energy.

Right. I’ve mentioned a couple of times this balancing process that we can all use to balance ourselves. The balance that we’re looking for is unconditional love. When you look at any experience that comes our way, whether we see it positively or negatively, if we can eventually get to the point of acceptance and unconditional love for everyone in that situation, then we’ve gotten to the point of truth, of reality, because that’s what it is. It’s within ourselves and we need to find that unconditional love and share it with everybody we meet. So that’s the ideal.

That’s the ideal and Jim, I’m not trying to be a pessimist but honestly on the surface right now and through the channels that we have most of us are open to the frequency that we’re connected to that come at us through the television, and even our thoughts, there’s a lot of fear, a lot of untruths being told. I think that people are frustrated not knowing what the truth is and that can build some fear. And Ra was one means of discerning and finding out what the truth is but… how does that come about, is that through what you call service to self entities – do they create that fear for us?

Yes. Fear is the other end of love. The service to self entities use fear as a tool to manipulate and control those around them. They take their power and energy, and what they have created of life and use it for themselves. If you look at the military, it’s an excellent example of the few controlling the many. Fortunately, we only have to be 51% positive in our thoughts, words and deeds in attempting to find love in every moment. If we can be 51% successful, then that’s enough to point the compass in the direction of service to others. The fourth, fifth and sixth density will give us plenty of time to move that 51% further up the dial until we’re 100%. All we need now is 51%.

So the small group of negative entities that appear to be trying to drive us into a state of fear, are they here by choice, for a reason, are they trying to take over the Earth, what is their role here?

They are human beings just like everybody else, and we’re always reminded by Ra that they are also the Creator. But they’ve made another choice. They find pleasure in another type of experience. Their pleasures are of a darker variety. They find pleasure in dominating and controlling others, and taking their power, their light. Every group that does any kind of work to be of service to others, be it channeling or other activity that is being of service to others, is going to find there is a loyal opposition that tries to put difficulties in their path. They will try in one way or another to temp them away from being of service to others. A lot of groups over the years that have done channeling – the channeling which would start off very positively and then, not knowing how to keep that positive channel, they began moving according to how they are tempted by negative entities to seeking things other than being of service to others; e.g., maybe they begin to seek power.

So they begin to feed into their egos and start going towards service to self?

Right. If you look at a lot of the beginning information from so many different groups, it starts off very, very positively. But then, because they are creating light which is noticed on the inner planes by negatively oriented entities who attempt to gain power over that light by offering various temptations in attempts to move them one way or another away from being of service to others. If they can’t do that, if they can’t temp them, then they then attempt to put out the light… that’s where Carla had a great deal of difficulty with entities who were attempting to end her incarnation so she could no longer be of service to others through the Ra contact.

A third member of your group that passed away, was there any influence from working on the Ra materials that is connected to his passing that you could shed some light on?

That’s a good long story but I guess I can give you a little bit of information about it. As I said, there were entities who were attempting to end Carla’s incarnation one way or another. She had many physical difficulties that could be accentuated. At this point I must mention that the only way a negatively oriented entity can influence a positively oriented entity is through a previously existing choice made by that positive entity. If there is any choice made to move away from the harmony that is possible that then acts as an opening that can be intensified or magnified by the negative entity. So any little lapse in the positive orientation of a service to others person can invite what could be called a psychic attack. We chose to call it a psychic greeting because we didn’t really want to feel that much of an adversarial relationship with this entity that was attempting to end Carla’s incarnation. After a period of time and a number of experiences that Carla had that were very difficult to get through, but she was able to get through them with help from various healers, Don seems to have made a choice to offer himself instead of Carla. Don and Carla wrote a book in 1968 called the “Crucifixion of Esmerelda Sweetwater.” This is a book that predicted so much of what happened to L/L Research over the years. In that book, the negatively oriented entity got the one called Esmerelda who was the equivalent of Carla in this incarnation. Don didn’t want that to happen so he seems to have offered himself as a substitute. We did not know exactly how that was happening until the very end when he was going through an initiation process at the same time that there was a problem. At that time he was a pilot for Eastern Airlines which company was going down financially. Don was having an initiation that was calling forth his necessity to seal his faith that no matter what, all would be well. He was watching Eastern going down, he was watching his abilities to support our group go down, he was watching his own health deteriorate, he lost of third of his body weight during the last seven months of his life and finally, he ended up taking his own life. We felt that this was his way of offering himself to the negatively oriented entity in order that Carla would not be taken. Three days after he died, Carla saw him in waking vision, and twice more after that, and he assured us that all was well, that all turned out exactly as it should. He was golden colored, laughing, happy and was where he should be. To our way of looking at things it was a traumatic and terrible ending to a beautiful life. So that’s, in a nutshell, what happened towards the end. It was a hectic and very chaotic time for us.

Right. I can only imagine. So the lesson learned from that is to certainly be aware and completely alert to discern who you might be communicating with, and also your own compass. We have to embrace our shadow side, we have no choice but to acknowledge that piece of us, to bless it and have gratitude for it. Right? I know that Ra taught that. It’s a part of the human experience. We can’t deny the shadow in any of us. We can only embrace and have gratitude for the opportunity to make the choice.

Right. Ra suggested the best way for us to deal with a negatively oriented entity was to see that entity in the meditative state, and to send it love and light. Genuine, heart-felt love and light but not in an attempt to make him go away but because that entity is also the Creator, and your other self. It is a part of you. So send love and light to that entity – and it just so happens that doing that really bugs that entity. They see that and view it as kind of sickening: “You love me? Oh my goodness” is basically their response. So we did that, we sent them love and light and have found over the years, since Don’s death, that that is the very best way of dealing with negatively oriented entities is to love and embrace them as if they are a part of your darker side for indeed they are.

Right. Right. I think that’s one of the main concepts being brought out in the Law of One that we can understand. We’ll be right back, this is so fascinating.

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I want to acknowledge with total love, admiration, and gratitude the service to others work that was done by all three of you and, in particular, Don Elkins, who truly was a genuine soul here to provide service to others. What was it like, Jim, to be a part of that group? It must have been fascinating to be in the presence of the channeling that was going on that was so amazing.

It was indeed. Each of the three of us had no doubt whatsoever that this was the high point of our lives. After the contact had begun, the night before the next contact, we would gather and try to determine some questions to ask. And then the morning of the contact, we would have a meditation, maybe another question or two would be discussed, and then the contact would start. After Don asked one, two or maybe three questions, Ra would usually give an answer that was so startling to Don and so enlightening that he would be off another tangent. So a lot of the questions that we devised never got asked because there was so much incredible information that was coming through at that time. After the session I would be doing the transcribing, Don would be pacing around waiting for each page to come out of the typewriter (yes, back then we used a typewriter and carbon paper). I would give Don the rough draft, and Carla would take a walk as she always did her exercises after a session, and then she would be prying me for information about what Ra said.

So Carla wouldn’t remember because she was in a trance state during the sessions?

Right. She didn’t know anything that had gone on, and Don, being the thorough going scientist that he was, didn’t allow Carla to read any of the information for the first 21 sessions because he didn’t want it to influence anything further that might come through her. So we were walking around saying things to her like “does your mind/body/spirit complex have distortions with ?/illness?” She would look at us with that look in her eyes and say “Don’t you say that anymore unless you let me read the material.” Finally, Don asked Ra if she could read the material, and Ra said yes, of course. We were using her as a channeling instrument. Her vocabulary is extensive but we were using our vocabulary and it won’t matter a bit. So finally after session 21, Carla was allowed to read the material, which brought a great deal of peace to her mind. The conversations we had with Ra caused us growth and great excitement, purpose and direction – it was the most incredible think you can imagine.

Yeah, very amazing. We’ll be right back.

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Things are being discovered now on planet Earth that tells us beyond any shadow of a doubt that Earth has had a history and longevity way beyond what we currently have recorded in history. I think Ra helped push us in the direction of opening our minds and our thoughts to the concept that we do have a lot more history here or Earth than what we had thought.

Yes, as you mentioned there are many sites around the world being investigated which are telling us they were inhabited far earlier than scientists had thought. I believe there is now one in Turkey that is a very large area dating back at least 30,000 years and perhaps further. They are discovering roadways and buildings of a culture that was quite advanced. I think this is probably happening now from what I’ve heard at numerous locations around the planet.

Yeah, simultaneously. What did Ra say about the inhabitants during the time of Mu and Atlantis? What was Ra talking about – those entities were here living and highly evolved with high technology societies. What was that life like then?

We didn’t get a lot of detail about what everyday life was like. Basically what we got was that the Atlantians had achieved a great deal of technological expertise, and even investigated the creation of life forms, and various mutations of humans and various types of animals and that their exploration has gone off the tracks somewhat. They were not using their energies to explore the ability of the human to evolve spiritually. They were working with physical bodies and how to gain certain advantages such as positions of power and financial through their inventions and relationships with each other. Eventually the war that were on-going there caused the sinking of Atlantis and ever since, throughout history, various philosophers and writers have posited the location of Atlantis. I think people are now discovering more about that civilization and where it might have been located, either in the Caribbean or perhaps stretching across the Atlantic Ocean.

So the Atlantians were a civilization that had a concept more about using technology and science to advance themselves. What about prior to the Atlantians such as the civilization of Mu. Were they more spiritual?

Apparently they were a great deal more spiritual, and the destruction of their civilization was, Ra said, not due to any faults of their own but by the shifting of the tectonic plates in their vicinity that was caused by other more hostile type civilizations that had embedded the Earth with these war-like vibrations – which to this day we are seeing expressed in various ways. Ra suggested that the way the Earth releases this energy slowly is through what we see as volcanos, earthquakes, and various types of weather disasters. These are ways the planet is attempting to slowly release this energy of hostility and anger that has been stored there for thousands of years.

So are you saying that other civilizations from outside Earth were trying to destroy this planet?

No, I’m saying there were other civilizations besides Mu that had caused various situations that Mu sort of inherited by its geographical location.

Oh, so civilizations on Earth that had almost destroyed themselves from whatever it was they were doing, and planet Earth is still trying to readjust itself.


Okay. I have another question. At lot of what people talk about now is the ancient’s connection to the Sirius star as perhaps being a great being. Did Ra have any comments on that?

There was one comment made about 1973 in Pascagoula, Mississippi that Charlie Hickson had an experience with ETs that were very unusual. He reported them as looking something like tree trunks with no legs and they seemed to float. He was totally amazed by them and said they communicated telepathically. When we asked Ra about them, he suggested the incident was an anomaly, that they weren’t really looking to visit Earth but they were just travelling and noticed Earth, and they were from the Sirius star system, and they were attempting to determine what it was to be what we call human because in their evolution, they evolved from trees, and their normal state of being would be what we call meditation. They were attempting through their exploration to investigate activity or movement, and came to Earth sort of by accident or chance, and discovered Charlie Hickson had decided prior to his incarnation, to offer himself in service to others by allowing contact with entities such as these entities. Actually, these entities were high third density able to travel in craft to great distances. It took them a certain amount of what we call time to get here, but they were attempting as we are to realize balance. When we try to balance, we use meditation, their balancing is activity, movement.

Jim, is it possible that some of the visitors we look at as UFO related could possibly be some of our own human race that are coming back in time to this density from an age beyond it?

I believe that’s entirely possible. We did not ask Ra a lot about that, but did get a bit of information. Ra suggested that every thought that we can think has its own reality, and goes to a certain level of experience on the inner planes. When people think about the possibility of space travel and time travel, such things do exist and we have parallel realities that we partake in – and there is where it is possible to travel backwards or forwards in what we call time to visit us. Such things have certainly occurred. The Manhattan Project was a great experiment to spit the atom to generate atomic energy, but there was also the Philadelphia Experiment which was an experiment in doing just that: travelling in time, and apparently it was successful. However, it is not generally know today just exactly how it was undertaken or who the participants were. It is known that a certain Navy ship was able to appear and disappear as part of that time travel.

So you said earlier that Maldek was a planet that destroyed itself, and that Mars is no longer a planet that can be inhabited. We’ve talked to some writers, authors and investigators on this show who said that the traces of life on Mars indicate that there was at some time a civilization there – and that is congruent with the Ra material.

Right. There has recently been some gathering of information due to the probes we’ve sent to Mars, and we’ve discovered there is a great deal of radiation on the planet that would not allow life there as we know it. We have also discovered there has been water on Mars, and there are certain structures that seem like they could have been built by intelligent hands, and there are other natural features there that suggest rivers and lakes were there at one time so the conditions for life did exist. Ra suggested that life did exist on Mars at one time but the war-like nature of the inhabitants rendered the atmosphere inhospitable so these entities were transferred to Earth in order to complete their third density cycle.

What I am also hearing a lot is that this section of the universe is highly populated, and it tends to be a struggle here, and that are other more peaceful places in the universe.

Yes. We don’t have to go too far. How far away is Venus? Ra suggested their third density on Venus was quite peaceful as far as we would see it. It was a very harsh existence and a very bright planet. They have a lot of what we would call high mountains and desert areas, but they were much more concerned with types of relationships and energy exchanges such as sexual energies exchanged, mental energies exchanged – energy exchanges of all kinds were explored there. When they were visited by sixth density entities that were their teachers, it was very easy for them to be able to incorporate that information and move forward with it. By comparison, when the Ra goup, at a sixth density level came to Earth and attempted to teach the Egyptians as had been done with them on Venus, the Egyptians had a totally different response. Those in power attempted to keep the information available for those of a royal nature or who had power such that the ordinary citizenry did not have access to the Ra teachings. The Egyptians distorted the Ra information a great deal and used it to control others which was not the Ra group intended, which resulted in the Ra group’s decision to leave rather quickly although we don’t know how long they were there. They left and retired to the inner planes of Earth to consider the distortions which the Egyptians put into the Law of One which the Ra group felt responsible for having landed among the Egyptians and the subsequent distortion of their teachings by the Egyptians.

How do you explain this material which I am really impressed with your knowledge of as I don’t know how you remember all of it, but I’m really impressed with that. How to you explain to people who are not acquainted with the materials at all or who may not have a solid spiritual background but that are still looking for something. How do you put it into their terms or interpret it to them?

By basically trusting intuition. Don had a phrase of “Maintain the baby steps.” So we try to talk to a person in a way that the person is familiar. You try to establish a hard contact, see what they’re really interested in, and then begin making little suggestions, little implications, talking about certain things that may be related to what they’re interested in. But not try to dump everything on this at once. What I’m sharing with you is because you guys are savvy, you know what you’re talking about, you’ve heard all kinds of information, so I feel free to talk about it freely. But for somebody who is not familiar with it, go slowly, gently, lovingly, and don’t have any dedication to an outcome that they will accept what you say, just give it freely like spreading bread upon the waters – and if they ask questions, answer to the best of your ability but don’t push.

How many people do you find in your field that do not have this ability to relate to a common person?

I think in every field it’s a talent to be able to relate to people right where they are. Most people have an agenda. They want to make a point or win a point or control somebody or do something incredible. I think there are more and more people who do want to connect that way so I’d rather focus on that and it’s so easy not to do that. But I think people who get together who want to share information, and I think the key is sharing… you don’t just give information, you ask questions, you let other people share and take in what they have to say and you see the infinite nature of the Creator all about you… everywhere you go you’re looking at the Creator.

I think one of the things right now is that knowledge is freely available, and we all sort of understand that, and wherever we can get it or tap into it using our own powers of discernment gives everybody here an opportunity to understand to, like you say, to understand whatever it is they need to know at the right time, and to then make the right choices for them on their journey. It’s a wonderful opportunity to bring forth the knowledge that was lost. Here we are at Lost Knowledge talking about it. Now I want to get back to a couple more technical things with you. About the pyramids, I know that Ra talked about… I talk about pyramids a lot, I talk about Bosnian pyramids and have written a lot of articles about the findings there. Can you talk a little bit, Jim, about what Ra said about the pyramids. I’d like you to talk a little about that, and get your views on our move into forth density. So you said the pyramids were built to help the Earth settle and stabilize?

There were a great many pyramids like that. Ra called them balancing pyramids, and there were approximately 57 of them that circled the planet. Pyramids exist all over the planet in various forms, and various entities are responsible for building them but not all were built as Ra did. Ra said they used what they call everlasting stone, and those pyramids are thought as opposed to having been built stone upon stone… consider that for a minute. They appeared very quickly. The Egyptian culture at that time was not located close to where the pyramids are now. The Egyptians discovered them already built and intact.

No way! I’ve never heard that. So the pyramids were built by these other entities, these higher level beings, and then the Egyptians found them?

Yes. The credit was given to an entity at that time, a great architect by the name of Imhotep – he was given credit for building the pyramids but the three major pyramids, the Great Pyramid especially, was built by those of Ra and they called it a time/space healing machine. There is the King’s Chamber and the Queen’s Chamber which are the two most prominent chambers where healing could take place. In this particular type of pyramid the teacher, or the healer, inhabited the Queen’s Chamber along with the student or the one to be healed depending on the purpose at that time as it could be used for either one. The King’s Chamber had the ability of taking the person’s aura and all of the energy centers, and spreading them out in a way such that the one who is going to do the healing could work with the energy.

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The contact with Ra came about and then you and Don together would come up with some questions. I know that at the time people were just starting to think about UFOs, and I think you worked with Dr. Hyneck, and some of the other innovators in that field. So the questions that you were asking at first I think you were trying to understand the concept that there were all these other beings as a part of our world that really, truly existed. Is that right? Because we’re still not, I don’t think, yet at a stage where we have admitted this wholeheartedly but this is the concept that you were getting from Ra, and starting to understand.

Right. Don had for years, since the mid-1950s, been attempting to put together the puzzle pieces. He started at a very early age of 17 when he first got interested in UFOs. There was the UFO case here in Louisville (KY) where a Kentucky Air National Guard Captain, who happened to be Don’s flying instructor, was chasing a UFO and died chasing it. Captain Thomas Mantell, which made national news and people started taking UFOs a little more seriously… that was 1948. So Don was 17 years old then and that got him interested in UFOs. From that time on, he started reading and investigating – and I think it was in the 1950’s he did over 200 hypnotic regressions of various people and discovered that reincarnation really was the way it worked. He also started talking to people about UFOs and, being a pilot he was able to fly to any part of the country to talk to whoever had been abducted or been on a craft or had any UFO experience at all. He investigated everything that he could. So when the Ra contact happened he was full of all of these questions that came from his previous 30 years of investigations, and attempting to fit all of these pieces into the puzzle and finally he found somebody like Ra who was able to help him do that.

So the first book, The Law of One, the first 26 sessions, were really Don trying to put it all together in a way that made sense to him and anybody else who was doing research. After book one, we started getting into how the universe was made, how evolution occurs, and how we partake in it. So it was a process for all of us attempting to put puzzle pieces together. @Debbie So grasping the concept that there were all these other civilizations that existed on Earth, and other planets was probably… I think it’s something we’re trying to get to now as we’re evolving. But let me just ask you… a lot of people talk about these different civilizations currently. I hear a lot of talk about, for instance, Pleiadians. Did Ra talk about that group?

Hardly any such groups. Don had investigated Billy Meyer, a Swiss man who had contact with the Pleiadians and, again, much of what occurred with Billy Meyer with the Pleiadians in the beginning was very positively oriented. Later on I’m told, as I didn’t continue with that investigation, the information took a turn as it does with many groups. But the Pleiadians were those that were responsible for that contact, and I believe they are still making contact today. We didn’t get a lot of information about that. There were so many different areas of investigation we could have gone into.

Right. Well right now we might ask different questions. This sort of reminds me of the (Edgar) Casey channelings because people would have probably asked him a lot of other questions at the time he was doing his reading. But he (Ra) did talk a lot about the galactic federation. Right?


And how would he describe that?

Ra suggested that the confederation of planets is made up of at least, and this was in 1980, 500 different planetary consciousness which means they have gone past the 3rd density level, and have become what Carl Jung would call a mass consciousness in that they all share consciousness, and all experiences of any one entity are available to all entities. This gives them a great deal of information to go on. So a planetary consciousness has available a great deal of information, and what each of them determines, if they are positively oriented is that the way they continue their evolutionary process is by being of services to others. So they offer themselves either literally or figuratively in that service. Many entities of a planetary nature simply send love and light to people on Earth; e.g., to anybody who is in pain, anybody who is calling for assistance.

Without incarnating?

Yes, without incarnating, without even coming here.

Right. So other will take a human incarnation. So the planets are accepted into the confederation?

Yes. Apparently on the rings of Saturn in our own solar system is where the Council of Nine sits. The Council of Nine is what you would see as the elders of the Confederation of Planets. When an entity such as Ra has a desire to be of service as they were in offering themselves through an instrument such as Carla, they take this plan to the Confederation on the rings of Saturn and speak before the Council of Nine asking if this might be a good plan that they would approve. The council makes suggestions and usually there is an acceptance of the plan and the plan goes forth. But this council has at least 24 other backup members to it so there is a total of 33 different entities that can be seen as elders of this Confederation. They offer advice, consent, and assistance for those who wish to be of service to any planet or group of entities such as we have here on planet Earth.

So does the Council of Nine oversee just one part of the galaxy, the part we’re in?

Yes, and that’s the part Ra speaks of when they speak of the Confederation of Planets. Apparently there are many, many Confederations throughout the universe. Ra would refer to this one as local although local wouldn’t be the right term because there are various solar systems millions of light years away as we would see it, that are part of this Confederation.

This Confederation of planets, do they get along with the people in the other Confederations, to work together, etc?

Yes. Ra mentioned there are what they call star wanderers that go to these distant places – we would see them as distant, and attempt to be of service there, and attempt to experience the uniqueness of that culture or planet or density. And Ra also mentioned that there is as much difference as one can ever imagine – that some of the concepts were almost staggering to the mind – of a mental nature. Now spiritually, all is one and all is the Creator and that is true throughout the entire universe and all of the Confederations. But every Confederation, and every member of the Confederation comes there from a unique place, and has a unique story to share, and some of them are so unique that they are hard to imagine.

Do you mean they have unique physical bodies?

Well, we got this information when we were discussing what Ra calls the archetypical mind. Now that is a study in itself and we took all of Book 4 to get into that. The archetypical mind: each of us has a subconscious mind, and Jung takes us down to the collective unconscious. Ra says there is also a racial mind, and a planetary mind. And with each star, such as our Sun, there is an archetypical mind, which is like a blue print for mind, body, and spirit. There are seven archetypes or features for mind, seven for spirit, seven for body, and the 22nd one is known as “The Fool” who blindly goes off into space, trusting and having faith after having developed the archetypical mind.

This sounds like my Tarot cards.

Yes, well that’s where the Tarot came from.

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The Major Arcana is the archetypical mind. The Minor Arcana came from the Chaldians who were interested in divination. The two were were blended by the Egyptians into one source which is used in a whole lot of different ways.

We’ve had this off-world, off-Earth influence for a very long time, and there is no surprise that it’s still happening. I think we’re saying no the thought of ET beings only because we’ve been programmed that we should be afraid of them.

Yes, The War of the World syndrome. The government has had contact for a long time with ETs, and used fear to keep the information secret. Either they ridicule UFOs or foster the possibility that they might be dangerous so we’ve got to keep it secret.

So Ra’s teaching was that we should embrace this opportunity to have an expansion in consciousness, and an opportunity for evolution?

Right, and in every part of our lives with nothing excluded. UFOs are a source of information like anything else is, and all of the Confederation sources have always said to use your own discrimination to determine what has meaning for you. There is a lot of channeled information, and a lot of written information offered by Earth entities. You always have to use your own discrimination to determine what has value for you. They are always saying that if what we say does not have value for you, put it aside without a second thought, we do not wish to become stumbling blocks to you.

How do you compare the Ra material to say the Urancha material?

Urancha was apparently put together by entities from the inner Earth planes. These were not ETs, these were ascended masters who had been able to achieve a certain level of realization that allowed them to retire to the inner planes, and try to come up with a book that might be helpful to those entities who had similar interests. The Urancha book is a tome that has all kinds of helpful information but you have to really dig in there – a lot of people have said the same thing about the Ra materials as not being easily understood. But I think for any person who really has that type of desire, and is on that wavelength then the Urancho would make sense, or the Ra materials would make sense or whatever you’re interested in will make sense to you.

How do you find the level of acceptance today on the Ra materials compared to 25 years ago?

Oh, well of course people are much more open today. I mean you can listen to people speaking on television and they are channeling their inner weirdness. Channeling has become a word that is used broadly.

It’s very in vogue right now.

Oh yes. I think that everybody is aware of channeling, ETs, and most people, studies show, believe that ETs and UFOs exist. They may not believe that they’ve ever seen one or that anybody they know has, but they believe they exist. I think there is a lot more receptivity now and people would be more receptive if the government were to release the information that it has concerning their own context with UFOs starting back with Eisenhower in 1954.

How do you find this trend will take us in the next 15 or 20 years?

Hopefully people will continue to welcome information, and make it a part of their, what I guess you could say, basic personality structure. When we go through life and read various books or poetry or talk to people of interest or listen to lectures, how ever we get our information, we’re building this reservoir library of information and it’s probably really based on ?? So many people in the past relied on religion to various extent or in the social mores. But now there is so much more available to people in every possible aspect – the way we communicate with computers and the social media these days. I really look at the social media as training wheels for the mass mind, the collective consciousness that one day we’ll be here.

You said something about religion. I read in the Ra material that Ra suggests that the Law of One sort of surpasses or overrides the religious paradigms that have been created as distortions to the original words that were introduced. Would you describe what you think or how you compare the Law of One to the traditional religions that we have now on planet Earth such as Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc. Is it an overriding philosophy?

That’s the way we see it. Carla calls herself a cradle Episcopalian, she has been in the church forever, and I’m sort of a spiritual pagan in that nature is my church. I think that each religion has been influenced by people who were tuned in to the Law of One, and that each religion has a pure way to get to the Law of One or to get to the Creator and to see all as one, and to focus on love. But each religion has also had various influences that came after it was formed by the originator, and there has been distortions given to each one by making it oriented by entities who wanted to use the religion to control others. Negative entities have been around as long as positive entities because there has to be a balance; i.e., there has to be the opportunity for people to learn both positive and negative. People need to be able to use their free will and their own discrimination. Negative entities have been here for a long time too, and they’ve had their influence. I think if you look at the heart of every religion, you find a straight path to the Creator, and to everybody else’s heart.

Did Ra ever mention the Anunnaki?

I believe they are the same or similar to the Anak, the giants.

Right. The giants during the Sumarian times.

Right. Apparently, there was one group of the Confederation that wanted to provide a better way for those of planet Earth to evolve as they had all come from planets where they had not been successful in making a choice, their evolution was very slow. So they attempted to make genetic changes, and one of them was to make the entities larger and stronger, and more intelligent, feeling they might then be able to grasp the Law of One more easily and put it into effect in their lives. But the negatively oriented entities found this a nice way to get in there and make these entities feel elite. The negative way of dealing with those on planet Earth and to try to form an empire is to create an elite and to use that elite to rule over others. So, again, that effort was not successful and those of the Confederation that were involved in that took a reassessment of themselves and decided that was not a good choice, and so have made other choices since.

So they’ve moved on to someplace else?

No, that group is still here attempting to balance the distortions for which they feel responsible.


I have people tell me at times that there’s some force behind me about 15 feet tall but not influencing others. I call it the big person or the big entity.

Carla was told that every same thing before she started channeling Ra, about 10 years before.


So who knows, maybe it’s Ra.

That’s a great source for me, a positive feeling.

Yea. I think everybody has some sort of a place within themselves or a feeling or experience like that from which they can draw inspiration, and the power to go forward when it seems difficult and hard to do.

So in wrapping up, one of the main things that Ra talked about is that the harvest time is now and not meaning like right this minute or right this year, but that it’s part of our choice of density of experiences. Some people don’t like the word harvest, they prefer graduation or ascension. Whatever you want to call it I think the graduation word is nice but if the harvest is now and we’re all trying to understand and figure out at our personal level or soul level just what that means – Ra’s advice had a lot to do with love, right?

Ra’s advice had everything to do with love. Our ability to love and to open ourselves at least 51% of the time in everything we think, do and say is the ticket to 4th density. Being able to love people unconditionally is the key. And Ra said the harvest is actually now. It started shortly after WW2 and will go on for some period of time. Everybody who is going through what we call the death process now has the steps of light provided to them. They walk those steps of light until the light becomes too glaring, and then they step aside and look where they are. And if they are in 3rd density, they return to 3rd density. If they are in 4th then they are harvested and would probably decide to come back to planet Earth and help others do the same thing. In fact, that’s why we have so many of these kids who are not only wanderers but people who have graduated from planet Earth already, and are coming back to help out with the harvest because they want to be of service to others, and being of service to others and loving others is what gets you there.

So when you experience 4th density… for those people who are alive right now on planet Earth, can they go into 4th density without natural death?

Certain people in meditative states can have those types of experiences but they’re not sustainable until you go through the doors of what we call death, which Carla calls the doors of larger life.

So when that happens you reincarnate into 4th density. Are the people or children who are incarnating right now in 4th density, does that feel different? Are you more of a light body?

We’re in a different body, the body that’s concerned with the heart and that’s the green ray. That body has a great deal more freedom, a great deal more light available to it and Ra suggested that the entities that will inhabit planet Earth after the harvest is complete, this will be a 4th density positive planet – and that it will take some period of time for those entities to accustom themselves to the planet, and to working together as one entity so that 3rd density, for a short period of what we would call time will be put aside in that there will not be another 3rd density Earth for a while for as long as it takes for the new 4th density population to learn how to become invisible to 3rd density because if they were visible, it would be an infringement upon the 3rd density free will. So eventually this will be a 3rd / 4th density planet, and there will be a 4th density population here working with the 3rd density without the 3rd density really knowing it for quite some time.

So almost like a parallel universe?

Yes. Right now we have ascended masters and angels and guides and so forth that we can’t see with our physical eyes, usually. But they are here and there are various interactions of a helpful nature going on right now.

Yea. And then in 4th density do we still have to worry about things like food intake, and the daily experiences we have now? I heard that we don’t.

It’s not a worry. What we apparently do is use the area of the brain called the frontal lobes to create what we need. The construction of things is done mentally. The growing and preparing of our food is done mentally, and the sharing of the food is important because it’s done in a group nature and it helps to foster the group feeling of solidarity and unity in working together. It’s more of a pleasure and a joy than having to get food together tonight because I have all these people to feed.

Right. Not as rudimentary. It sounds exciting and sounds like the evolution. I know that Ra expressed there would be some discomfort as we emerge into this next density. Is that what we’re experiencing right now, what we would call discomfort?

Well, Ra calls it inconveniences which he said have begun. He was referring to wars, tornados, earthquakes, typhoons, disease – various ways that the planet needs to use to heal itself to slowly release the energy of aggression that’s been built for so long. And people themselves, and groups and nations having to work together to overcome difficulties. These inconveniences could be seen as just that or as ways for people to get together to help each other in love and light.

So essentially the souls that are not ready to graduate, the less than 51% will experience the polarity longer and those others will emerge into this 4th density?

Right. They’ll go to another 3rd density planet, and have another 75,000 years to give it another go.

Right. And then once we get into 4th density we are in the density of love, right?


And then we work on that for how long? Do you know?

Apparently for only 30 million years.

That’s all!?


But that is time as we know it

Right. If we could define time.

How can people reach you?

Contact us at

What’s really exciting is these books are available to purchase, and we’ve had a lot of request for them. It’s really a fun read. People can get them from your web site

Yes, and they are free.

Free if you want the PDF files, but if you want the book you have to pay something.

Yes, there is a donation for the books.

Thank you so much, Jim. It’s been wonderful, a fabulous show, and hearing from you with all this information.

Thank you.