Debbie West – Host Michael Hathaway – Co-Host

Good afternoon. Here we are today on “Lost Knowledge” with Debbie West and Michael Hathaway. And today we are very excited to have as our guest on the show Carla Rueckert. Carla was the… in 1981 to 1983 Carla through tuned tranced telepathy made contact with an entity known as Ra. And they ended up transcribing what’s known as the Law of One, which is a series of books that was transcribed during the sessions that were conducted through Carla with this entity, Ra. So, Carla, welcome to the show.

Well, thank you so much. It’s a joy to be here.

Well, it’s so exciting. And we’re gonna, we’re gonna let you talk a little about what it was like, if you can share with us what the experience was like during the actual channeling. And I think also we’re excited to talk about your book, “Living the Law of One: The Choice,” and a little bit more about the message that Ra delivered to you.

If you had to, sort of, I guess, summarize the totality of the message in several sentences, say, what would you sort of give as a summary of what Ra was conveying to us during your, during the sessions that you had?

Well, what Ra wanted to say is simply that we are all one. And that “one thing” is love. Love is consciousness. Consciousness is love. And love is the one infinite creator. So it’s basically saying we are all little portions of the one infinite creator. And we are all made up of that one thing which is love. So when you get back to our absolute essence, we are one, and we are love.

Sounds so simple. Sounds simple. And we make it so complicated, right?

Well, yes. I think by implication it becomes complicated because we want answers to complicated questions. Who are we? Why are we here? Where are we going? How does it all wind out? What’s the deal? And thank God Don was a scientist. Don understood physics. Because it apparently it’s easier for someone like the Ra group to talk about the universe in terms of physics other than in terms of art. Science rather than art. It helps us here. Don was fascinated, before he ever began this study of channeling, by the physics of Dewey Larson, which suggested basically that all things were velocities which is [music drowning out Carla]

Yeah, we are going to get into how it all got started right after the break. So we’re looking forward to it.

[Commercial break.]

We are back on Lost Knowledge today with Carla Rueckert who is the person who channeled the Law of One, the Ra Material. Carla, can you sort of describe to us how you and Don met? And how you started doing the, doing the work initially. Because I don’t think, you know, you really sought out to find Ra…

[laughs] Oh, good heavens no, no. Much a surprise to me as anything could possibly be, if you look at it. It is a long and winding road. That’s the way that life seems to be. I’m a librarian by trade. I love the work, and I was a good librarian. I was a school librarian and I was the only librarian at a 13 grade school for 6 years. And Don Elkins hired me away from that job to write for him and to do research on paranormal subjects of all kinds. I was fascinated and wooed away. He matched my salary and off I went.

And it was a very exciting adventure. But 12 years before any of that, I was in college and I met Professor Elkins as a student. He was a professor of physics and mechanical engineering at Speed’s Scientific School at the University of Louisville. And he was starting a silent meditation group. I was looking for a silent meditation group. And I said, “Well, may I join?” And he said, “Well, now, it’s an experiment, a scientific experiment. It’s a weekly silent meditation group that you are certainly welcome to join.”

So we didn’t really know what the experiment was about. But 12 physics students and I began meditating together in January of 1962. And within 6 months, all 12 of the gentlemen had begun to receive messages from an unknown source. This is what Don was after. He had come across some information in channeling that explained how to create an extra-terrestrial channeling group. And he wanted to try it out. And the explanation was that you got people together on a regular basis, you meditated together, and if something began to come through, you repeated what you were receiving.

And so people began receiving these messages. And Don was very excited about it because the messages were 85 to 95% exactly like other messages received from other extra-terrestrial channeling groups that had actual close encounters of the 3rd kind. So it was a very successful experiment. Don wanted to keep it going and I never had wanted to do that. I just wanted to sit and listen when people started channeling. I liked the messages. They were nice. But I liked the silence, too, and I just never wanted to try. So Don said, 12 years later, he said, “Look, all of my channels have left town.” This is typical. Engineers get jobs everywhere and off they go.

So those channels, those people that were in the original group, the physics students, did any of them channel Ra, or were they just channeling various…

No. They were all channeling entities like Hatonn, Oxal, Latwii, people like that, entities like that.

And it was the same consideration, but a different density of group. The density of love is mostly the density we were getting. So I started out doing the same channeling. When I told Don that I would try, I gave it a try. And to my great surprise, I could not have been more surprised, I was good at it. And I got better, and as a researcher, of course, I was determined to be better. And I began figuring out what makes you a better channel, what makes for a better reading. And I figured quite a bit out and began, you know, hand-tooling, shall we say, what I would accept as questions. I developed a method of tuning beforehand so that I would be at my best. And I even wrote a book about it later, “The Channeling Handbook.”

Anyway, I guess I did that, I had been doing this level of channeling for some time. From 19, I started in ’74, and it was in ’80, ’81, this January of ‘81 that I was teaching somebody else to channel when Ra came through for the first time. And I, you know, I always, after I finish my own tuning, then I challenge the spirit. And I say, “Who is the spirit?” And then they come and then they love Jesus Christ. That’s one of the ways that I learned to create a better reading was to demand to know who the channel was and to tell them who I was.

“I want the vibration of Jesus Christ. Can you do that?” And this guy kept saying “I am Ra.” And I kept saying, well, “I challenge you in the name of Jesus Christ. Can you say, Jesus is the Lord?” Well it was like, of course I can say “Jesus is the Lord.” Do you think you’re the only planet that has Jesus? You know, it’s like, Come on, girl! So I couldn’t shake him, I challenged Ra, the Ra group three time. And he was fine. So I said, “OK, go ahead.” And that was the beginning of the Ra contact. Fortunately, that’s the only time I was able to challenge. Because after that, I would go to sleep before the contact began. So…

I think Michael has a question, Carla. Hold on one second.

My question is, was there a regular routine that you went through when you went into your meditation? Was there a certain, was there a certain assumption, or should I say, request that you go to a certain place?

Michael, I’m having trouble hearing you. Can you say that again?

I can. I’ll… let me. Is that, when you started channeling, even back when you were in the classes, did you have, was the leader, did he ask, did he have as set way of asking each time, or leading you, or all the whole group, into your guided meditations?

Uh, no. He, the only thing that ever happened that caused the people to understand more of what was going on was that a man from the group from which Don had gotten the original material, in the Detroit group, which was called Manned Consciousness and Understanding, came down to visit. And he channeled. And this was the first time anybody in the group had heard anybody else channel. And it gave everybody a lot of confidence to realize that what they were receiving was not unlike what other people were receiving. And they were very encouraged. But the channeling itself had been going on for some time.

When you said that you went to sleep after it, you started with Ra, were you consciously aware of what was coming through you?

No. I was out of it completely. I have, to this day, I have no idea how that happened. I was never trained to do it. I’ve never been able to do it before the Ra contact nor have I been able to do it after. And it was terribly draining, Michael, on my physical body. So I’m kind of glad that I, that the rest of my channeling career has been conscious channeling. Because I lost 2 to 3 pounds with every session that I did in a trance. So, obviously, it’s not a good idea for me for the long run.

If you’re familiar with Edgar Cayce, it was always very hard on him, too, when he was in the process of channeling his information.

Yes. Yes. It didn’t seem that his method was at all the same as mine. But it certainly does seem that the, the way he channeled was very similar to the way I was. Just asleep, is the way I would have described it. And I think he was called “the sleeping prophet.”

[laughs] Yeah. So Carla, when, when Don Elkins realized that you had made contact with Ra, did he know who Ra was?


Was he in any way familiar…

No, he did not know who Ra was. And he asked about that. But the thing of it was, the thing that makes Don different than anybody else I’ve ever known, he recognized the quality and precision of the channeling the very first time he heard it. And…

So, did your voice change in, ’cause I know…


with the Hicks, Esther Hicks, when she channels Abraham, from the “Law of Attraction,” her voice completely changes.

Yes. My voice changed. It was very soft, and it was without a good deal of intonation. Normally when I talk, I have pretty much more intonation than some people have. And I think its because of being a singer. But when Ra was talking, it… was… like… that.

Very manja. And did they record the sessions that were conducted?

Yes. After the first session, Don always had 3 tape recorders going. We only recorded the first one on one tape recorder, but he didn’t like the fact that you had to turn the tape over at the 45 minute time limit. So he started the 3 tape recorders at staggered times so that we would not lose any channeling.

So, when he, so he realized the quality of the, of the, who you had made contact with instantly, and then started recording the sessions and, at that point, you would go out, into I think what he would call, the tuned-trance telepathy, where you were basically unaware of what he was doing. But he would ask Ra a direct questions and receive direct answers to, to all these various questions he would ask, right?

Right. It was just basically a long conversation. Which was distinguished by the Ra’s precision and depth of response, and by Don’s ability to ask questions that really mattered to people.

Right. And so that, this is back in 1981 and so we started out by finding out who Ra was. And what did Don find out about this entity that was coming through you, as to who this was?

Ra was extremely careful to distinguish themselves, or itself, I don’t know exactly what the number is [laughs], on a social memory complex, an “it” or a “they,” but very careful to distinguish themselves from the Amun-Ra that is the hawk-headed god of Egypt. That was the god of politics, the god of negative polarity, and prosperity. Definitely not Ra. And so he started out by distinguishing himself/themselves from the Egyptian personification. Although the golden hawk was a sign that we often saw when Ra wanted to signify to us, just as a subjectively interesting coincidence, that they, that something that we were talking about was worth thinking about, we would see a hawk. That was always wonderful.

So Ra described himself or itself as a social memory complex, which is, would you say, kind of like a group soul?

Well, it’s like a group soul but it’s not a hive mind. These, this was a group soul that, in which everyone had his and her identity and individuality.

OK. And they’re from the planet Venus, and they reside in a higher density, is that right?

That’s the way they descibe their density. They talk about the densities quite a bit, and it’s a foundation teaching of theirs. But, just to make a long story short, there are a couple of grades in the school of souls above us. And we’re in, we’re studying the, this is the density of polarity, 3rd density. Fourth density is the density of love. Fifth density is the density of wisdom. And Ra’s density, 6th density, is the density of unity, which is love and wisdom unified. And all paradoxes unified.

So, they’re quite a bit ahead of us. So I think they had a certain amount of translation problems telling us the exact truths. And I think a lot of times they got as close as they could. But they bent the language doing so. Like, for instance, a person Ra refers to as a “mind/body/spirit complex,” meaning that we are made up of a mind, a body and a spirit in a complex arrangement which makes up one soul.

Hmmmm hmm.

So, it’s very clear, you know, it’s much clearer to say “mind/body/spirit complex” than to say “person.” Because you have no idea what that person consists of, and then Ra’s terminology, you have a very, a very clear idea of how Ra saw each of us.

Right. And because we’re not, we weren’t at that point, and we still aren’t really used to the concept of all these other beings that exist in the universe.

Yes. That’s true.

So we have to be, we have to be open to, you know, describing other entities other than ourselves. And I think that was one of the things that Don was really good at, because you guys had written a book together, back in ’76, called the “Secrets of the UFO,” right?

That was the second book that we wrote together, and it was the first one on a non-fiction level. And it pretty much summed up Don’s research from 1955 to 1976. So it was 20 years of research. It was a very, very deep book. In America, I have not seen a book on UFO’s that, that brings the person to a better understanding of the spiritual nature of UFO’s yet.

I haven’t seen one that comes close to Don’s, it’s really Don’s book, I mean, I wrote it. Don told me what he wanted in each chapter, and then I got it together. But I greatly admire that book and I recommend it to people. I mean, there are lots of professors who use it at the college level teaching about UFO’s because it’s very evidential, very clear, and takes people to a lot of good places.

So, we’re not talking about like flying saucer UFO’s, we’re talking about the dimensional beings that exist interdimensionally and, within the greater universe of evolving souls?

That’s right. And Don would say, “We’re talking about people who make dents in the ground, who are really here, and who have something to say.”

Right. Well, that sounds like a great book. And sometimes I think what we write about now a days, and over the last 10 or 15 years, is all the conspiracy stuff that really doesn’t, you know, have a lot of value to add to the discussions. So…

It hasn’t added a lot, no. I mean people are not eager to be led into taking UFO’s seriously. The evidence is there. People who have written about it ever since I’ve been in the field. People, good people were writing good books about it. And . .

[music drowning out Carla]

Well, we’re going to talk more about Ra’s terminology and what he, what Ra had to say during the telepathy sessions when we come back from break.

[Commercial break.]

We are back on “Lost Knowledge” with Carla Rueckert and Carla, one of the things that came out of the Ra material was some terminology that we’re not so familiar with. So, you already mentioned the different densities and what they represent. One of the other terms that Ra talked quite a bit about during the sessions was “the harvest.” And I wanted to talk a little bit about the harvest and what, you know, what that means and what Ra was trying to communicate to us.

Alright. I think a lot of people are blindsided by the fact that they look at the harvest as being a one, one-sided thing. In other words, the planet and its people are all moving in the same movement. This is not true. There are two harvests going on. One is the harvest of Earth itself. And…

So, what is harvest, what is harvest mean?

“Harvest” in the case, a change in density, is a transformation. It’s also an ending and a beginning. It, the way the South American Indians term it, is this, it’s the evening of one day and the morning the next.

I’ve heard people call it like a re, a re-birthing of Gaia.

A birthing of Gaia is perfect. That’s great. And the thing of it is, we are, as people, we are either ready to move on at this time, or we’re not. But people identify harvest with things like, oh, you know, all those Christian terms that indicate that it’s time for everybody to die. And the people that are good will go to heaven, the people that did not make the cut will go to hell. And in Ra’s description…

Like a rapture, like a kind of a rapture type thing, yeah…

Yeah. Like a rapture.


[unclear] But in Ra’s description of it, it, number one, it ends at the end of your natural life. It’s not something that is taken irrespective of whether you are in an incarnation or not. It ends at the end of the incarnation which is closest to the, the harvest on your planet. ‘Cause the planet’s going on, whether or not we can go on with the planet, this is what’s to be decided.

So when we die, we’re going to do something called “walk the steps of life,” according to the Ra group. And “walking the steps of life” is an absolutely beautiful concept, and it simply describes that you walk up steps. And they are different, each one is slightly more dense with light than the next. So you are walking into a denser and denser light. And where you stop is where you’re going to be the most comfortable. You go further than that, and you’re not comfortable. And so you either stop in 3rd density or in 4th density or above. So, after you stopped, and said “this is where I feel comfortable,” then you yourself have chosen whether or not you are ready for the degree of truth that is necessary to be able to accept in 4th density, the amount of light that you can receive.

So, if you graduated, fine. If you haven’t graduated, you’re gonna repeat the grade. You’re gonna go do another 3rd density, the density of polarity, on another planet that’s going through 3rd density. So you’ll join another planet in its rhythms and…

So, by joining the other planet, you’re referring to our spirit or our soul will incarnate again in…

[unclear] all go through into an incarnation on the other planet using the genetic material of that planet that’s capable of experiencing 3rd density.

Hmm hmm.

How would you relate this, how would you relate this to what we call “karma?”

Well, karma is described by the Ra group as a matter of forgiveness. Karma is adhering when you have not forgiven another person or, and/or you have not forgiven yourself for something that you’ve done. Or another person hasn’t forgiven you. In other words, you haven’t finished working on a lesson that the two of you contracted to work on in this particular incarnation.

Say, you know, two people say, “I wanna work on forgiving you because I didn’t forgive you in another incarnation, so let’s work on this to see what I can do about it.” So you are wanting in the same incarnation to see, to forgive, to understand, and to accept something that another person does that’s not what you want.

And it’s done, and what are you gonna do about it? Are you gonna judge the person or are you gonna forgive? Well, judgement feels really good, but it’s adhering to you and you, then you carry it on and you have more to learn in the next incarnation.

The stoppage of the wheel of karma is forgiveness, according to the Ra group.


Well, I think that it’s really true in life.

Does that relate to the density level that one would enter then, according to how they go about forgiveness?

Well I think while you still have lessons in this density, you’re not gonna be ready to move on. I mean, this is where you work on your polarity. This density is working on whether you are “service to others” or whether you are “service to yourself.” It may not seem as though it’s “service to self” to judge people. But, well, as I said, while judgement feels good a lot of times, it’s not helpful to your spiritual growth.

So, even if, I mean, you let the court system work on whether what somebody did is legal or illegal, whether it’s actionable or not. And your question is a spiritual. Can you forgive this person? What he has done against you. You know, it’s kind of the Lord’s Prayer. Forgive, you know, ask to be forgiven as you forgive others. Their trespasses, you know. So, it’s not a new concept, but the whole, the whole thing about polarity is, as long as you’re working with judgement, you’re of service more to yourself.

In other words, you’re gaining, you’re, you know, you have authority over someone as long as you’re judging them. You give up your authority over them when you forgive them. And that’s what love is all about. Love is about seeing that the person is not his crime. Love is about giving people another chance. Love is about saying, yeah, you know, I think in that situation I might have acted the same way. So, basically, you’re forgiving the other person and you’re forgiving yourself for ever wanting to come into this situation.

And it’s a very dicey prospect when you face it in this light. And I’ve had to face my, you know, bad landlords and people cutting me off in traffic and so forth. And, I mean, there are a lot of things that you hold against people, whether it’s just a sudden quick thing like a traffic thing, or whether it’s a very deep problem that, you know, goes on for years. The question is, can you forgive? Can you let it go? Will you just not hold a grudge? Will you give the person a chance? Will you see him as a soul? And not as an imperfect human? Because, see, we’re all really imperfect. We’re all by way of being in judgement, I mean, we all done things that are really stupid and in error and we’re sorry. And we hope people will forgive us for those things. We really do.

We’re… one second. So, for understanding the Law of One, and we’re all one, we’re looking, looking at the other person is the same as looking at ourselves, right? So, we’re mirroring back each other in seeing each being as ourselves, and treating each being as if, as if we, the same way that we would want to be treated.

That’s right, that’s right.

And you see forgiveness as the way to resolve our karma in the, in the density of polarity, or the density of choice, whichever you want to call it, which is where we’re at now, here in the 3rd density of Earth. But what you’re saying is that Earth, the whole planet and all the souls on Earth right now, are transforming into a higher density, the 4th density of love. And, what I understand from the Ra material is that many, they tried many times to harvest souls here, and they haven’t been successful, and they’re not sure how many they are going to be able to harvest this time.

That’s true. Although this was done in the early ‘80s, and reading through the [unclear] that since that time, there has been a continual upsurge in the grassroots level of people that have awakened and want to do better and want to learn the ways of love. And, you know, once you awaken, you can’t fall back asleep. That’s the thing about waking up.


You wake up. [unclear] [laughs], man.

No way, right, that’s it. [laughs] So, yes. So I did read that. That’s where I was getting to. I wanted to hear your views. Because it seems like Ra might be kind of happy about this because the entities that they describe in the ’80s that they said there were just a tiny step from awakening. And maybe people have taken that leap of faith, that tiny step forward, that means that they are ready, you know, to be in the, in the higher density.

And you know, they were ready, if they could just help one person, they were ready to make the effort. That’s the thing about people like the Ra group, is they care so much. They have such big hearts that it’s not about how many people can you bring to your side, or you know, illuminate with what you have to say, how many people can you convince. It’s not about proselytizing, it’s not a religious thing.

It’s like, “Listen, here’s the way things work. And we felt that it might be helpful to some of you, and if it is, great. And here’s the way it is.” And they just said it, you know, in the first, in the first session, they said, you know, “We come to you because you’re seeking more intensely.” Or, you might say, you know, for more advanced material. And, you know, here we are. So, you know, our job was to keep at that level of intensity as we got the information, and to put it into use in our own lives so we could continue asking about it.

Right. And so one, and so one of the things you did just mention, religion. One of the things during the, during your transmissions with Ra is that they supported you in your Christian faith, and basically sounds like they would support just about any religious faith if it served you in the ways of love.

That’s right. They considered any way of understanding creator a distortion. Because the only thing that’s not distorted is that which isn’t talked about. In order to talk about things, you have to distort them one way or the other. So distortion is not an ugly word to them. That they simply consider everything a distortion. So, they, they talk about the first distortion being Free Will. The second distortion being Love. The third distortion being Light. We’re talking about the make-up of the physical universe. All of these things are distortions that…

So, I’m sorry, what’s the definition of distortion for the Ra, from the Ra viewpoint?

Well, they were saying that anything, anything whatsoever, that you talk about is a distortion of one kind or another. So distortion isn’t an ugly word. The first distortion from the Law of One, in other words, everything being unified, is the law of Free Will. Now, the law of Free Will says that, you know, people’s free will is more important than getting them to do stuff. You know, your rights stop at the end of your nose. Everybody’s got free will. And there are lots of things they wouldn’t tell us because they didn’t want to infringe on free will. So, that was a distortion. And they believed that that was right.

The second distortion was the Love, or Consciousness. The third distortion was Light. And love and light together create the physical universe. So the very thing that interlocks and creates everything that we see and everything that we can identify and talk about is in Ra’s view a distortion. That it’s necessary to have some way of talking about things in order to investigate who we are and for the creator itself to investigate who it is. Basically, you could look at all of us as the creator’s question to itself, “Who am I?”

Hmmm hmm.

And in order to find that out, they slung, the creator slung us out into consciousness and created distortions, created illusion, so that we could see, witness, and react to that which we saw.

Hmmm hmm.

And each higher density is a higher level of sophistication of reaction and response. And we are the first density where we have, not just a body, a body, but also a spirit. The spirit begins to interact in 3rd density with the mind and the body. We are spirit-driven entities. We are not physical beings having a spiritual adventure. We are spirits having a physical adventure. It’s a very important distinction.

Hmmmm hmm. Yeah, we talked about that a lot. And that was one of Cayce’s things as well. Because if we understand that concept, it kind of changes our outlook on everything.

Yes, it does.

That we’re spiritual beings. Hmmmm hmm.

Hmmmm hmm.

It helps start to explain that “Who are we?” a little bit deeper, right?

It does. Because once you know that you’re here to bear witness to what you are seeing and to respond to it, then the question becomes “How do I want to respond to it?” You know, and the answer for this density is “Do I want to respond in a helpful way for others?” Or “Do I want to respond in helpful way for myself?”

So that you have two choices. You can respond in love or fear? Those are kind of your two choices?

Sort of in love, or in authority. And I think that there are ways to be of loving authority. There are ways to be a leader, and be loving. But it takes a great deal of sophistication of spirit, I think, to begin to penetrate leadership as a spiritual being. And it’s very difficult, the temptations of power are many. And most of the people that are really working on their polarity are not at the top of the political heap.

You can talk about, you know, exceptions to that rule, of Martin Luther King, you can talk about Mahatma Gandhi, who worked within political systems, but with great love. It’s to be noted that when Martin Luther King was assassinated, he was going to a rock [?] in Tennessee to help some local garbage men because they weren’t getting fair pay or fair hours for their work. And he was at the top of his career and going places, and that, you know, and he was still “Ok, let’s help these guys,” you know, let’s help these particular people. He was, he was a humble man and he found ways to express his love in ways that inspired people. He had a dream, you know.

And if you look at Gandhi, I think Gandhi probably had more intellectual polish to him, and if you can read, you know, things that he wrote, it’s very, very thoughtful. And they really show you a lot about how to work with leadership in, as a spiritual leader and be effective. But it’s a doggone hard thing to do.

It is. It is. I think of Gandhi as a, as peaceful uncooperation.

Yes. Cooperation and talking to each other sitting on somebody’s front porch and working it out. You know, whether it’s the level of a couple of people in the neighborhood, or whether it’s a level of nation states. You need to be able to talk it out and not just hit each other with the clubs of empire and killing and torture and so forth. And we, we are certainly not at the forefront of anything like positively-oriented political action at this time. It’s unfortunate but true.

Well, we live in trances all the time, both positive and negative, to various different levels, right from your deepest trance to a light trance, and the process of a lot of people do not understand what I call a holographic thinking, which is the ability to see both the big picture and the little picture, and to be aware of what’s going on. A lot of people are pulled into that little picture and they don’t see the whole.

The whole, to me, is that love energy that you speak of, which is out there and when we can reach to that and be a part, when it becomes a part of us, then at that time, we have the ability to assess situations in ways that really allow us to see the whole and then to allow ourselves the opportunity to take steps with the love as the basis first and for the best of the whole. It’s, to me, it’s the intention. If we do the best we can, that in a way is perfection.

That’s beautiful. I think that’s totally true, Michael. It’s a, it’s a discipline, isn’t it? It’s a rising to the responsibility of what you know. [unclear]

I totally agree.

If you know it’s a spiritual thing, if you know that this is a world of holographs, if you know that this is the hall of mirrors, if you know that it’s all you out there, how do you react to that? [unclear] that’s the responsibility, and it’s so very hard to hold that level of awareness, to be in the “now,” to be in the “here,” to know what you know. And then to try to create the world as you see it within that hologram.

Well-said. I had something pushed my button a couple of years ago, and this phrase came through and I use it many times a day in my life. And it started with “I am love,” which I repeat 3 times: “I am love, I am love, I am love.” And then it’s “I am loved, I am loved, I am loved.” And that changes my whole feeling, if I get tense, just that flow of in and out, and the connection to the greater divine, really helps me step back for a moment, take in the whole thing, and see what’s really going on here. What’s my role in it?

Well, I quite agree.

It’s, it’s, when you live that life, the question is, how do you get it to the point where the common person… I, I turn, I do a podcast with Nature, so for me, the subliminal is always what I’m gaining from nature that fits into life. How do I get the two views?

Yeah. I think that, you know, we, we need to, to take responsibility for life as we see it. I, most of us are not particularly important in the greater scheme of political things. The economical, political, social thing. Most of us fly below the radar on that.

This does not mean anything at all about how important it is that we choose our ethics carefully and adhere to them with great discipline and faithfulness.

I mean, if we know that we are one with all, we know that these are all our brothers and sisters. We know that they are all parts of the creator. And we are looking into the creator’s eyes when we see another human being. How should we treat that person? You know, it doesn’t mean that, I mean, to have ethics doesn’t mean that you have to have “important” decisions. It means that you look at the person that is waiting on you, and you are aware of her as a soul, or he, him. You don’t simply grab your bag of goodies and go. You spend the moment that it takes to become aware that this is the creator in your universe, ok? Honor that.

And you respond to that in whatever way you can. And I think that, if you follow the implications of that, it doesn’t really matter whether it’s a totally minor meeting of souls, or whether it is what other people would consider very important.

So, Carla, we have, we have another hour after we’re gonna take a break in a few, in a few minutes. But one of the things I’m, I’m not quite done talking about is the harvest. Because I think, I think Ra really made an attempt to, to talk to us about what that means, that you’re talking about this choice that we’re making between, you know, how we react to things. How we respond to each other as souls. And how we, you know, during this incarnation on Earth, how, how do we use this time wisely to evolve to the best of our abilities.

And one of the, one of the problems, or I guess, one of the issues is that there is a negative, negative force here that Ra describes as the Orion group that sort of helps set the polarity in motion. And sort of feeds off the fear and the negative vibration and things like that so that we can experience what it feels like to make the choice. Am I sort of right in general about what that… ?

You are right. What they call the Orion consideration is not limited those entities who are, you know, have had incarnations within the Orion belt. It, it is talking about a consideration like our positive consideration that Ra is part of, and Aton, and so forth.

But this is a consideration of negatively-oriented souls, and they are also here because there is a call for information of a negative polarity. So they’re here to the extent that they’re called, they’re able to get information through. And entities like, oh, the Illuminati, you know, the World Bank, all of the great conspiracy theory entities that people write about that seem to feed off of fear and so forth, are all part of that.

And the, the polarity comes in in just how you choose to use your power. Whatever power you have, you know, whether you’re using your power with your children, with your family for control over them, or for their best good as you see it. Whether you are working at your workplace to try to find ways to solve problems cooperatively, or whether you just want to move up the ladder and if it’s necessary to use people, [unclear] people, then we will do that.

So how we, how we choose to respond is part of that whole choice, the density of choice that we’re in. So, we’re gonna talk more after the break about, about the Ra group and the Law of One.


[Commercial break.]

So, we are back on “Lost Knowledge” and for the second hour we have the pleasure of speaking some more to Carla Rueckert who channeled the Law of One material. Carla also has a book out called “Living the Law of One: The Choice.” It’s an excellent guide, a spiritual seeker’s guide, for understanding and applying the Law of One in their lifetimes. So, Carla, one of the things I wanted to talk to you about is the book that you wrote, “The Choice.”

When you were channeling the Ra material, you told us earlier that you were asleep. So, when you, I guess, heard the material on the tape recordings, or talked, you know, to Don and Jim and reviewed the material, did it ring true with you immediately? Did all of it make sense and did you have a connection to Ra that you felt, you know, connected to the material?

I sure did. I, I took all the philosophy that my school had to offer at the University of Louisville. Lots and lots and lots of hours of philosophy. And I’m just basically of a philosophical nature. And most specially as a woman of faith, I’m a very ethical person. And I’m fascinated by, you know, what’s right, what’s, what it really is right? Because it’s such an iffy shades of grey, which is the popular way of saying it these days. So many ways to look at right and wrong.

So did it, so none of it came as a shock to you because, I mean, the topics were quite, you know, broad-minded, UFO’s and other, you know, other…

It’s not just that. I mean, when I looked at how, in spite of the fact that this is a very delicate, narrow band contact, and they didn’t want any metal anywhere, they let me wear my gold cross. You know. They wanted me to have that. And they wanted me to have the altar with all of these, you know, very Episcopalian symbols of the way I look at the creator, the way I worship. And I am a woman that worships very deeply. [laughs] Why did they do that? Because they’re saying, these are all distortions, and basically it’s the one infinite creator, and that’s basically it. You don’t have to go through all this story-telling and stuff. But then I thought, no, they’re not saying that at all. They’re saying, “Whatever works for you, as you are working out your own way of thinking about the creator, your own way of worship, your own way of responding to right and wrong, your own way of being a person of ethics in this world.” Whatever that is. Whether it’s a known religion. Whether it’s no religion. Whether it’s something that would not necessarily be called a religion, like Wicca, which I think, you know, has a great many religious connotations, but is basically a nature religion. And so forth, there are so many ways of working…

Sorry about the interruption. We will be right back after a short break.

[Commercial break.]

So, we’re continuing our discussion today on “Lost Knowledge” with Carla Rueckert, who channeled the Law of One material with the Ra group, and the Ra group basically explained so much information to us that’s so relevant and current now as we sit in 2013. They talk a lot about the monolithic god theory, which means that we are all part of a universal source, a universal creator, and that we are all part, we all exist as an eternal soul stream. So each of us, as a part of this creator god, has, has an eternal soul stream, and that there’s 7 different densities or levels that our souls can evolve to. We on Earth now are in the 3rd density, the density of choice, and in the process of evolving to the 4th density, the density of love.

So, Carla, as we look at where we’re at now in 2013, and at this time during harvest, one of the things that, that Ra explained, because it’s, like you say, it’s not a kind of a rapture event that’s gonna all happen on a certain day. Ra actually said that the harvest, because they have a little bit of time, of difficulty with our time distortion, but they said it could be somewhere between a hundred and 700 years for it to happen.

That’s right. I don’t think people need to worry that, that something terrible is going to take them away. I mean, mankind is always capable of bombing ourselves into extinction. But as far as the creator goes, the creator has no intention of that. We have entered into Earth’s 4th density. We have, we have come into a place where the vibrations that we’re getting, the light that we’re getting, carries more information than most of us can easily handle.

Which is why it’s very difficult for people to deal with things today. It would have been easier for us if we had been able to work earlier in this density [laughs] and get the lessons learned, and move on. But we didn’t. A lot of us are still really, really trying to catch up. You know, we’re awake, we’re trying to see how we can use the ordeals and difficulties of our life to respond in a loving and giving way, and to also to keep our boundaries in good shape and be ourselves. And golly Moses, it’s hard. And…

So shouldn’t, shouldn’t we chose to be incarnated right now during the transition from 3rd and 4th density, so shouldn’t we be like, kind of, joyful, joy-filled at the opportunity for this really spontaneous evolution?

[unclear] It’s hard to do that. Yes, we should be. Of course, we should. But I don’t think it’s good to use the word “should” when you’re talking about, you know, spiritual work. Because then you “should” all over yourself. “Oh, I should that, or…


“I should do this.” But no. What we need to do is express ourselves truly. And tell the truth as best we can. Whether we get it right or not is not as relevant to the creator as that we’re telling the absolute deepest truth that we can possibly can about ourselves.

Hmmmm hmm

But, what we’re, what the, what the Ra group suggested that is relevant for us to do is to stay present when things happen. And to attempt to find the way to hold as much love in the, in that particular moment as possible. You know, Ra says, for instance, “Where is the love in this moment?” This is one of the great lessons to exercise us, to use to become a person of power, is to ask yourself in every situation, “Where is the love?” A lot of times you’re not seeing a lot of love out there. The love has to come from within you. And that’s a challenge.

When I can connect with the part of myself that’s truly a woman of faith, that knows the truth of life, that is that we are all dancing with each other in this wonderful dance of thoughts, dancing with other thoughts. We are all thoughts dancing in this ballroom that we’ve created. And how incredible is it that we are present at this time with so much good work before us to do. And where, why could we ever decide not to pick that up and be joyful with it?

When I come into that realization of owning my own power, knowing who I am, and affirming the faith of being a servant of the one infinite creator, and in my case, being Christian, I say a servant of Jesus the Christ, and really trying to follow in his way, in giving in every way that I possibly can. And try to find places, you know, where I can be of service. How can I be of service? Finding your own service is really important.

And isn’t all of that cause for joy? Well, yes, but it’s hard because everything that occurs, there is a balancing that is going on. And for all of the light in this incarnation, there is dark. For all of the joy that we see, there are occasions for grief, for anger, for the darker emotions. And all of these emotions are legimate, and have their place. It may not be appropriate to act on the darker emotions, except within your own mind. As…

So as we can, so as we can have the, sort of the, wisdom to transform those thoughts into the energy of love, and the energy of forgiveness, and the energy of gratitude, is that how we’re here, that’s what we’re experiencing… ?

I think so. I think so, yes.

Hmmmm hmm

I think that, you know, life, when life is easy, when life is joyful. And we’ve had those times. We’re in love, or we’re at a good point in our life, and things just are going for us, and it just, you know, Springtime is in our souls, and we’re just happy. And this is great.

But, it’s difficult, I think, when hard things happen to you. When somebody dies that you love. When you lose a job. When, you know, fill in the blank. There are so many ways that we can be challenged. And we look ahead, and we don’t see what we want to see. And we, “How can I go on?”

And you see the challenge is to bring your focus in, bring it in, bring it in. Present moment. Don’t think ahead. Don’t think behind. This is a unique moment in our lives, right now. And it is in this moment that we have power. In this moment that we’re real. And when we can respond to this moment, with as much love as possible, and act as conscious beings, we are rocking! You know? [laughs]

Hmmmm hmm. Right! Right. But it is a challenge, and I mean, the more we, you know, experience the polarity and the pressures of the negative forces, you know the harder we get pushed, I think, for me, it makes, it makes it all seem very real. And that we, you know, we clearly have to make a choice and take a stand. And it’s probably going to get more intense as we move forward for those of us that remain here on the surface for any length of time as we sort of go through the labor of rebirthing Gaia. I think we’re just going to experience more and more of that.

And what we’re feeling right now as, as pressure probably isn’t even close to what we’re gonna have to go through on, during the rest of the birthing process. So as, I think, I think waking up to the fact that these choices, the choice seems clear until you’re kind of, you know, pushed to your limit. And that’s when you’re really going to be faced with, you know, how do you, how do you reach the place of love and stay there?

So, in your book, in your book which really I think helps people get there, and helps people stay there, “Living the Law of One,” you talk a lot about the different energy centers, and how to keep those balanced. So, do the energy centers on the body, do they have any relationship to the densities of the planets, or is it a completely separate energy thing?

Well, they do have relationships to the energy of the planets.

They have relationships to the densities. They have a lot of correspondences. But I think that it’s easy, it’s probably more helpful, I won’t just say easy, I think it’s more helpful to focus on the simple relationship of the parts of the body to each other. And the way they stack up with the spine.

If you look at the various energies of your energy centers, you are looking at beginning at the very simple, but very basic, in going up, up, up the scale. First of all, up the human scale, and then living up beyond the human scale to the spiritual scale, and then up above that, to that higher realm that is completely out of our density.

So within our density, say that there are 7 parts of our body and 7 types of things that we’re working with energy…

So, do you call those, do you call those the chakras?

I call them the chakras.


You have red, you have the red chakra, or energy ray, which deals with sexuality and survival. And then you have the orange ray which deals with personal relationships, relationship with yourself, relations with others. And then you have yellow ray, which deals with legal relationships, marriage and family and work.

OK, that’s the human scale. Those are the energies we’re working with. And then, when you come to the green ray, it’s the very center of the body, the heart. And it’s also the center of things. It’s where the body and the spirit comes together. It’s in the heart chakra is where the creator resides with us. It’s where consciousness resides. It’s, if you will, the stable where, where the Christ is always being born. And if we can get into our own hearts, and let our hearts open, we are back in that stable and we are, we are with the infinite creator. That is our place of power, our place of truth.

And when you move upwards from the heart chakra, then you begin to move into the powers of the spirit. The blue ray, the throat chakra, is the chakra of truth. You know, speaking, communication and honesty.

And you move up from that communication chakra to the brow chakra, in the center of the forehead. And that is the chakra where you work with meditation, and basically passive radiation of being, you know, where you’re simply allowing the love and light of the infinite creator to go through you and out into the universe. And you’re just letting it flow. And being, you know, that wonderful being. Holding, holding the light, that we can do, even if we’re, as I am right now, flat on your back in bed [laughs], recovering from a surgical wound in my back. And I am limited, but I can do this work, and you know.

And then, of course, after the brow chakra, you are moving up out into the realms where time/space take place, where other beings in the universe, like those entities that come to us, like the Ra group and Confederation and so forth are from. It’s that realm of “up,” that is above that described by our energy centers.

So, what we have to work with in terms of our soul, in terms of our spirit, and how it interconnects with our body, if you just think along the spine, you realize that we are creatures of our minds. And very, very often it’s our minds that interact with our bodies to create illness, for instance, not just random problems with the body. So you realize that when you can calm yourself through using the silence in some way, you know, walking in nature, or sitting in meditation, or journaling, or reading inspiring things, you are giving yourself time in silence. So where you’re not focused on a video game, or your work, or your kids or whatever… [unclear]

I can connect to that universal, that universal love energy that you can, anybody can easily connect to, if you sit in silence, you can connect out to that universal force of energy of light and love that can rejuvenate yourself spiritually and physically.

Well, yeah. I think that once you catch on to it, you can express love and light in your life, regardless of what you are doing, everything becomes sacred, everything is a ritual of joy. And I have felt such power and such joy just doing the dishes, and have the dishes say, “You’re really doing me.” [laughs] The feeling, you know, that everything is interacting and we’re all dancing together and…

Well, you’ve had, you’ve had just an amazing experience here in this incarnation, and we’re gonna have another quick break in a minute. But I want to, I want to end with, is I want to get sort of your viewpoint, your overview of sort of what this incarnation has been like for you so far, and what your experience has been on Earth. And do you have, you know, memories of other incarnations and other experiences in other lifetimes within your soul’s evolution, and what that, what you sort of see from that personal perspective as you sort of look, you know, both backwards and forewards in your lifetimes.

So I don’t know if you’ve done, Michael’s done a lot of regression work, he’s done a lot of past life work with different people. I don’t know, if you ever, have you’ve ever done, like a past life…

The only regression session that I had, my regression, the one that I remember was off-planet. It was from elsewhere. I haven’t done a lot of that. I mean, I think it’s very valuable for people. And I have just never been called to it. I have had such a wealth of reasons for being just in the things that have happened to me. I guess I have had a lot things happen to me. I’ve had a lot of twists and turns in my life. And sudden, sudden turns away from things that I had thought was going to be my life path, and “No, that wasn’t it,” you know [laughs]. And I’ve had a lot of illnesses.

I think I’ve read somewhere that you experienced psychic surgery, which is pretty cool.

Say again.

I think I read somewhere in your book that you had experienced at one point some psychic surgery.

I did. Twice. I experienced it once in the Philippines with 5 different psychic surgeons. And then I went to Mexico and experienced psychic surgery with a rusty knife, with a much more physical, with Batitha, and had my kidneys healed there. Yeah, I, I’ve had, talked to people who saw all kinds of UFOs and exciting things. I’ve talked to, seances. I’ve talked to spirits. And I’ve, I’ve even died. And I don’t say near death experience, it was a death experience. And come back from that with my life changed forever. So I’ve had a lot of adventure in my life. And I love every bit of it. I eat it up with a spoon.

[group laughter]

[unclear] near death experience.

[unclear] to happen tomorrow. And my connection with spirit is so incredibly helpful to me. So that I’m always feeding from the well, going back to that and drinking that energy which will give me inspiration for the day. So, I, my life has been just so incredibly satisfying and fascinating and “Whoa, what’s happening now,” [laughs] it’s certainly that, that it’s sometimes true on the outer planes, sometimes my experiences are inner, but it’s always been one of…

Well, we’ll take some time to hear more about that, so when we come back from the break, we’re gonna hear all about these many experiences over your fascinating life, lifetime.

All right!

We’ll be back.

It’s fun.

It’s very good.

[Commercial break.]

So we’re here on “Lost Knowledge,” our final segment of the day, with exciting guest, Carla Rueckert, and Carla, one of the best parts about the first book, The Law of One, Book One, is the pictures, they’re old black and white photos of you and Don, and your, and the cats, one of the old cats named Gandalf, in some of the pictures. And you as a very young girl doing the channeling work with your altar set up and everything. And quite fascinating what, what was going on in that part of your life was so fascinating. I guess at that time, you probably didn’t have any realization that it would have such a impact on society today.

I had no idea. And I think that it’s been such fun to watch it bloom and blossom. And find people coming to me now and saying, “Well, my mother gave me this book when I was old enough and I started asking questions.” You know, and having it passed down in the generations. I mean that’s just wonderful to see it become, it in its own tiny way, a classic. And it’s been helpful to a whole bunch of people. It’s wonderful to see it blossom and bloom. But I needn’t…

It is exciting. You know, when, and I, one of the, you know, the Edgar Cayce, sort of, material is coming of age now at the same time. And one of the concepts that comes out of the Ra group is that, is that they incarnated during the Atlantean period and several times on Earth, trying to, trying to sort of give us information about the Law of One, you know, earthlings, trying to tell earthlings about Law of One. And that Cayce actually talks about it, that in some of his readings. So it’s all sort of starting to tie together a little bit about, you know, more pieces of Earth’s history are sort of coming together now. And that’s where people, I think, are exploring these, these interesting topics.

Well that’s quite true, and I think that many people, through the ages, have gotten pieces of it. It’s an eternal wisdom, and it’s always been there if you, you know, are at a certain level and are open to the information. I think you can pick up bits of it, depending on your own faith and your own way of working, what Ra would call it, with your own distortions.

But I wanted to say that, in answer to your previous question, I hadn’t quite finished and I think it’s important to say I did know how important it was in my life. I knew because Don was excited and I had never seen him excited before, ever. He was pleased, or not pleased, but never excited, never happy. I’d never seen him happy. And he was only happy when he knew he was going to get to talk to those of Ra. He was a happy man. And he told me, before he died, he said, “This is my life’s work, and I’m very satisfied with it.” And he said…

Didn’t he die, he died right after the last channeling session?

Yes, he did. And I have never gone back. People say, well why didn’t you continue. Well, it wasn’t a question of continuing. I never even thought of it. Because Ra had themselves had told us, “Don’t try this unless you have both Don and Jim. You will not have the protection. You will not have the battery power to hold this, this tuning.” And I believed them because it was hard on me, even so, with both of them. It still took everything out of me. And I was exhausted after a session.

Well, it was amazing that you continued the work, because at some point you got down to like 70 pounds. And like you said, you’d gone through your own difficulties in your [unclear] body…

I was at 70 pounds for almost 3 years. And I ate like a fool, but I could not get, I couldn’t get bigger than that. Because I lost 2 to 3 pounds everytime I went under. I wasn’t doing it properly, obviously, and I, you know, I was integrating my own life force instead of producing ectoplasm. Now somehow, if you’re a taught spiritualist, you learn to do these things, and I never learned. But I didn’t care. If I could see Don happy one more time, I would gladly die. That’s the way I felt about it. It was the…

What do you think, Michael? Do you think maybe she had like a soul purpose, a soul contract that she was fulfilling?

Yes, I certainly did. I had that feeling. I was absolutely clear. And I have never doubted it in the years since. I had an immediate reaction to that material. It was self-consistent. And if you read enough philosophy, you get to know every single doggone philosophy has a problem that cannot be solved. It creates a paradox. And it’s there. And you finally go, “Well, shucks. [laughs] Here I was so hopeful.” You know?

No, they’re all [unclear] hopeful, but the way they think, it has holes in it. It won’t hold. But the Ra material would hold. It’s a self-consistent cosmology that absolutely holds. And so it’s a very comfortable thing. Because, when you read it, I mean, I think a lot of people that read it, they read it for the first time, they’re crying with joy. To discover how beautiful the truth is, and how, how much better things are than they thought. You know?

It’s just so, it’s a very powerful piece of literature. And I am so glad that we have been able to keep it. And I’m very excited about a project that we’re doing right now. We have a gentleman who’s been in charge of listening again to the tapes, the original tapes. And getting every word absolutely verified. And he’s found some phrases and some words that weren’t in the original because of typos, you know, missed them the first time through. And so now, all of the book 5 fragments are back in place. And it’s the scholar’s edition that’s going to come out sometime this year.

That’s exciting. That’s really exciting. And so tell us, tell us real quick where is the best place to order the book, because I know it’s on Amazon, and also can we order directly through your website?

Yes, we have a website. If you go to bring4th,, with a Roman numeral 4 instead of spelling it out, there is a store there, and you just click on what you want. And it’s a safe site, protected and everything. And very easy to order, very easy to donate. And it’s also on, for free. Everything that’s ordered, most people want the books. They want to hold them in their hands. But if you want to read the stuff online, one of Don’s goals in life was to make this information available to the people globally for free. And thanks to the internet, we’ve been able to do that. And I think we’ve gotten it out in like, the original Ra material, in like13 different languages that are available. Because volunteers have simply translated it, we’ve put it up on our site.

So, what I’ve heard too is that there’s Law of One study groups all over, all over the world.

There are indeed. And we try to keep track of them so that, when people, you know, come, write and ask, I live in, you know, Tuscon, what are my hopes of finding some people in my area, well we’ll be able to tell them that. But of course, there are groups all the time that are starting out that they haven’t gotten in touch with us yet to let us know. So we’re always asking people to do that.

But if you, you can subscribe to a gatherings newsletter on our site or on bring4th, and it’s free, you can do that. And we also have, if you are a prisoner and you can’t afford the stuff, we give it to you for free. People can order one book at time. And they can get everything eventually, you know, as they can read it, they get it. “I’m done with book 1, give me book 2” and so forth. And a lot of prisoners have taken advantage of that. And we also have a newsletter for prisoners that they write themselves. So, I think it’s exciting to be able to reach out to those who have no money, and certainly prisoners are right there.

Right. So, so you did feel, then, that this Law, the Law of One material, and conveying the message of Ra was part of your soul mission in this lifetime, definitely?

Definitely. I think that, and then seeing it through. I think I have lived two incarnations for [laughs] in one. “Two, two, two incarnations in one.” [laughs] [unclear]

Carla, who do you currently work with? Who do you currently work with from the other side?

Well, right now, I am inbetween channelings because of taking pain medication because of this wound in my back. I don’t trust my ability to stay tuned. And so I will not, you know, I will not go into channeling.

So, my guidance at this time is the Holy Spirit. And I just talked with her yesterday in journaling, and, oh my goodness, the most amazing energy, and the most beautiful thoughts from, from that source. Of course, it’s organized along my lines of the Christian distortion, and it’s so comforting. But that’s my inner guidance, and that’s what I’m going on now.

Hey, hey Carla, tell me for a minute about Q’uo, Q apostrophe U O, because I think that was a group that you channeled subsequent to the Ra material, right?

Well, you know, it’s funny. I had settled on a way of tuning where I set my intention, and I would always say it the same way. I would say, “My intention, dear creator, is to offer the highest and best channeling that I can carry in a stable and conscious manner, in the vibration of the love of Jesus the Christ.” And, so, shortly after the finish of the Ra material and Don’s death, and I was, I was praying this over and over and over. That would always be my intention.

And I started those of Q’uo. And after a few months of no, not really thinking about it, somebody asked, “Well, Q’uo, who are you?” And they said, “Well, you see, Carla tunes in a certain way, and she asks for the highest and best channeling she can carry in a conscious and stable manner of the vibration of Jesus the Christ. And so we combine 3 memory, social memory complexes, to do that.”

Q’uo, they said, is made up of Hatton, of the vibration of love, density of love, Latwii, of the density of wisdom, and Latwii’s the actual voice of Q’uo, and the Ra group in the density of unity. So, it’s, you see, it’s stepped down from 6th density to the 5th, 5th density to the 4th, and then 4th density to the 3rd. It’s a lot easier to understand. And that’s who Q’uo is. [laughs] It’s a principal made up of 3 social memory complexes, or 3 bunches of the sisters and brothers of sorrow.

Now doesn’t it get confusing channeling 3 different entities in one?

Yes. They work together in order to step the vibration down so I can carry the highest vibration possible. In a timed manner. You see, it has to be stepped down. It’s just like, you can’t go directly from a real high energy in a transformer, say, you know, down to the house current. You’d blow the system.

Hmmmm hmm

And the, that was the problem. Without the incredible power of Jim and Don, and the way we 3 came into incarnations strictly for this purpose, and they were very powerful and loved me so much, I didn’t have that protection to go right from the 6th density to 3rd.

Hmmmm hmm

And Q’uo managed, by combining these, these densities of energies, to step the energy down to where what I was receiving I could carry and I could still live. And in fact, I did not suffer now from channeling at all. All the through the years since then I, I’ve never lost any weight, I’ve never had any problems from it. In fact, I often feel a lot more jinned up after a session then I did before because everybody that’s in the group is adding their energy. And every person doubles the energy of the group. So when you get…

Now I think you, you also have a book of channelings with Q’uo, that kind of talks about some of the same things, but in that, in that voice.

Yes. We have, well actually, we have all of our sessions, if you want to buy all 18 volumes of them. [laughs] I’ve channeled for a lot of years.

Hmmmm hmm

I do have them available, if you want to buy the 18 volumes. Everything I’ve channeled. But Jim put together all of the newsletters, when we got to the hundredth issue of Light/Lines newsletter, it comes our quarterly, so that’s 25 years. We decided to put that out, and that’s the voice of Q’uo. In print. You can order that at our site.

That’s available on the site. That’s awesome.

Available on the site.

So you just kept going and just going, keep going and going, right? [laughs]

Absolutely. [laughs]

Don’t stop. [laughs]

No, never! I mean, it’s always new. I mean, it, if, if you’re using the information, if you’re walking your talk, something is always new. Something is always news. There is never any, “Well, we’ve heard it all, let’s quit.” You know, that’s, that’s totally irrelevant to the spiritual search. It’s never over, it’s an infinite road.

I heard your voice change. That’s what I listen for when someone switches dimensions. And I heard it a couple of times during this interview. When you would actually reach out and, through your belief system, download some of the answers.

I’m sorry. I’m not making sense of your question. Can you say that again?

Oh, well. I was just enjoying listening to your voice change a little bit. In other words, the pattern, the speech pattern changed as you were receiving information this afternoon.

Oh, thank you so much! That is wonderful. Oh, golly, that really lifts me up! I’m soaring like a hawk! I’m so glad you hear that! Oh yes. To me, there is such a joy in this work. And such joy just in living. And it’s an exploration to me. Don’t you think it’s an adventure?

Yes, it is!


[laughing] I can never wait for what’s coming next!


I’m still [unclear]

I’m sorry, Michael, go ahead.

No, I’m just saying, I’m still a kid. And everyday, there is something new to discover.

Yes, absolutely!

So, you continue, so you continue to work, and are you planning on doing the, are you planning on doing more volumes of the Living the Law of One series?

Oh, that’s, that’s my job. That’s, that’s what I get to. I need to do, I need to start working on Book 2. I mean, I had one chapter of it written when I got waylaid by a problem with my back.

Right, right.

I stopped being able to walk at this point, so, you know, that’s, I’m learning to be a wheelchair gal. But…

Oh, my goodness.

But, the problems now with my back and having to get metal in there, and my wound not healing. It’s 29 months and my wound hasn’t healed.

Oh, my goodness.

That’s a long song, man! [laughs]

That is! That… oh, boy!

But I’m singing it! [laughs]

Right, right! I know! My goodness. So . .


The first book, the first book, 101, is “The Choice.” Do you have a title for the second one, 102?

102 is about the 3 lower chakras.

Hmmmmm hmm

I’m not sure, I mean it’s, it’s living the Law of One in your life. It’s basically, it’s a book about emotions. That’s what feelings [unclear] in the first 3 chakras.

Hmmmmm hmm

It’s whether it’s challenges to your survival, or sexuality, or whether it’s personal problems, or whether it’s problems in your family or your work. Dealing with…

Controlling your ego-mind from, from, you know, kind of getting all [unclear] yeah, I mean, a lot…

The way people talk about your emotions, you just don’t want them, “Oh, let’s throw those away, that’s not…” But that’s true. I mean, you know, the truth of you is expressed in how refined your emotions have been able to become. How your responses have changed through the years from those first ignorant random reactions to the reactions of someone who’s had life experiences. And is beginning to see the big picture more and not having to trip over the details. So, the emotions are very important. They need to be valued, they need to be loved and understood and gotten, you know, you need to “get” yourself, you need to follow the love of yourself.

Hmmmmm hmm

And that’s what I’ll be talking about in volume 2.

And those are difficult. Those are challenges. I mean, those are really challenges that we face here in the 3D Earth on the surface, you know. And we deal with that every single day.

Every single day. Yeah. And it will be “Love, 1, 102,” and I will have to think of what the title to that will be. It will come to me as, as I write.

That’s right.

I was saying to Michael earlier, you don’t know what it’s gonna be like until you get in the zone and it develops there. And you’re just as surprised as anybody else that comes out. [laughs] And I certainly don’t, you know, foresee that it’ll be short. It’s gonna be a challenge to me, but I’m just going to keep trying to look at what Ra said about these things, and take them further, take them further. Go deeper.


In volume 3, I’m dealing with the upper chakras, and with the ways that we can work with spirit in our lives. Whether it’s healing or teaching or channeling or, or passive radiation of light. Whatever it is, there are so many delightful choices on the menu there, when you get into what Ra called the gateway to intelligent infinity. And you’re working with the part of yourself that’s truly magical.

That’s so exciting! That’s so exciting! Well, I can’t wait! We cannot wait, the public cannot wait! Those of us…


Following you and following your amazing path that you’re taking your journey through life. Can’t wait to see what more you have to offer. It’s hard to believe that you have more to give, but you’re just, you keep giving and giving, so it’s incredible.

And I think one of the things is that you are truly an inspiration to the rest of us who are awakening and, you know, rising to our call. And trying to sort of walk that path. Because, like you said before, it’s not always easy. I mean, sometimes there’s pushback from society, and even from your family members, and others in your soul group as you sort of wake up to some different ideas and concepts of what reality is.

And honestly, people like you are the inspiration and the torch that lights the way for the rest of us to follow.

Oh, Deb. That is, thank you so much. That…

I mean it from my heart! I really do! [crying]

I feel that. I really feel that connection and I so appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Yeah. And so, well, best of luck to you.

I’m sorry to leave this. Michael and Deb, this has just been such a joy. I’m not very good at hearing that little music come in. [laughs] Been playing with that. Haven’t gotten good at it yet, but…

Oh yeah, it just starts up, doesn’t it? But, no, honestly, so I want to thank you. I want to give you one more minute. We do have about a few more minutes, but I want to give you a couple of more minutes just to summarize sort of how you see things right now in the world.

I know that you see everything from a spiritual, from the highest spiritual perspective, and from a love, you know, viewpoint. And I just want to let you give some final words, you know, to the earthlings as we, as we all here on the surface kind of, you know, making our way through the lower chakras, evolving into the 4th heart chakra. Just some final words on, you know, on how we can, you know, manage through this times of sort of turbulence and evolution.

Alright. Well, thank you so much for that. I think that we are often blindsided by thinking we’re not very important. And that the things that we think and the decisions we make are not important. They’re vitally important. They’re, we are the centers of our universe. And I’m sorry if it doesn’t fly above the radar. That’s a silly way of looking at things.

We, as spiritual beings, are in a democracy, and we are equal to anybody else. And if our area, our arena of influence is a small one, it matters not. It does not matter. What matters is the delicacy, the care, the love, the energy that we put into the present moment, into the way we treat people. We are here, and we see so many people who would give you the shirt off their back. And maybe they don’t know anything in terms of “I never went to college,” well, so many did, and exactly, what has that gotten them? It doesn’t matter if you’re educated, it doesn’t matter if you’re smart. We are all souls, and we are all beautiful, and we really need to fall in love with ourselves.

Forgive ourselves for being human, because [laughs] it’s inevitable. We wouldn’t be here if we didn’t need to learn stuff. And just set ourselves to our job, and our, we had two jobs. We’re here to learn, we’re here to serve. We’re definitely here to learn, and we gave ourselves some things to learn.

And if you look at your life and you look at patterns that repeat, you’re gonna see the things that are your incarnational lessons. And when you see them repeating, when you see, you know, difficult times of the same type, repeating again and again. You get to, treat yourself to the ability to know yourself. To know “Oh, there that is again.” It’s going to make it so much easier for you to deal with, if you recognize your lessons. “There it comes again – ok, let’s pay attention.”

But it’s not the same lesson you’ve learned. You’re at a different level, and now you need to work on it again. So there it is.

Well, those are, those are amazing words to close with, and Carla Rueckert, thank you so much. Thank you, Michael Hathaway, my wonderful co-host.


This has been my favorite show ever. And thank you again. I can’t express how wonderful this has been. But thank, thank everybody so much and God bless.

Thank you.

God bless. I love you.


Thank you, Carla.