The exact date of this interview is unknown.

Host: Suzanne Ross

…around the turn of the century. I took 15 or so years since email began—I’d been on the web and people had been writing me emails which I’d saved, asking me questions, and I got the questions over and over. I started thinking I should write a book of responses to these questions because then I could just refer people to the book when they asked me, and I wouldn’t have to repeat again, iterate, reiterate, re-reiterate. So, I went through all of my email very carefully, and I analyzed every question, and it boiled down to about 105 questions, 107, something like that, that repeated, over and over, and so then I organized them. I’m a researcher; I’m a librarian, and I organized them, and I created the book from those topics. I organized the book so that every topic was an essay that you could read by itself. But it also blended in with the others in a flow so that you could read the thing as a book, cover to cover, and it wouldn’t jar you—it would flow, and called it “The Wanderer’s Handbook. “ My idea was to create a user’s manual for the human being.

Oh, I got it [inaudible]

I think that once we wake up we become wanderers. We can’t go back to sleep. We can’t go back. We’ve got to move forward. We’ve got to seek. So, I figured this book was basically for everybody, but it was mostly for wanderers, and the majority of the people that respond to the Law of One are wanderers. So, I think you’d enjoy the book, and you might find it helpful. You’re certainly welcome to dive into it and use it if you can find use for it in your book.

Oh, thank you, Carla. Yeah, I’ll definitely order that. I was actually introduced to your series of books by David Wilcock.

Yeah, David has probably sent more people to us than anybody else on the planet. He’s always talking about the Law of One, and everything that he writes has got the Law of One in it. Usually if I say “Well, where did you find out about us? “ two times out of three it will be from David’s site, or from one of his books, or from his books on him being Edgar Cayce.

Yeah, that book would too, right? It’s so fascinating to me how all of these people, Edgar Cayce, David Wilcock, yourself, have just unfolded. Every book that comes into my presence is divinely guided. And then, I was on a nature walk, which to me is more like a walking meditation, because out in nature I feel so open to the universal energy, and I’m always in such awe and wonder of the creation. I was looking in my phone for another book to download, and David Wilcock’ book just popped up right on my screen, and I thought, okay, The Source Field, and what an incredible book. One thing that really attracted me to it was the bridge between science and spirituality. I had a sense that everything is one—science, spirituality, religion. You name it, it’s all one, and that book really brought that message home for me.

Yeah, I think that is so true. When you finally put things down to what do you know about this, let’s look at this, how much do you know about this really, you discover that science sounds like we have it all figured out. Funny, I was just reading that this morning. I wrote the introduction to the first volume of the Law of One in ‘83, something like that, and it’s as true today as it was then. I was writing that when you start to think about science, you think, “Well, they have it all figured out.” But then you discover the distortions, like what’s electricity? What makes things attracted to each other? What’s the basis of physics, and so forth, you discover that they can work with the data. They can connect the data. They can connect the dots to use it, and you don’t know why it works. Science does not know what causes particles to attract. They don’t know what makes a magnetic field; they don’t know what light is; they don’t know what gravity is. They can use them, but they don’t know what they are. So, when you come down to the first thing, they’re mysteries, whether you want to say that that’s mysteries of the spirit or mysteries of science, it doesn’t matter. They’re mysteries of consciousness, and that’s both science and religion, and neither. It goes far back beyond what we name things. That’s the beauty of the Law of One, is that it penetrates all of the thought, and takes us back to the very first things. That is what I was saying to you yesterday. It takes us back to what is the kingpin upon which everything turns. Well, you wouldn’t think that it would be free will, but it is. My free will to talk to you, and your free will to listen, or visa versa, and the Creator’s free will to decide to know more about who it is, who am I, that original curiosity. We have a curious Creator, whose name is love.

Whose name is love, right. And as such created some curious children, right?

Yes, because that’s who we are. We’re all little bits of the Creator, and we’re out here gathering information in the field, and we’re going to eventually cycle back through the densities when we’re all done. And we’re tired. We’re completely tired of getting experience. We’re ready to report back home. We’ll go home and everything we have will be downloaded into the Creator, and the Creator will be that much more. But it’s already infinite, so, anyway, that’s the story. And I love that picture of the universe, of the curious Creator, and all of us being just as curious, and yet we’re bounded by the nature of creation, which is love. We can’t get away from it. Either we serve ourselves with it, or we serve others with it.Of course, we do both.If you serve others, you cannot help but serve yourself because bread cast upon the water comes back a thousand fold. If you serve yourself you can’t help serving others because you’re part of the creation, and everything is serving the Creator. No matter what a huge villain you are, you’re still explaining to the Creator, just how villainy is, how that works.

And then the polarity—can you explain that a bit more, speaking of the villain and then speaking of love.Can you talk a bit more about that?

Well, I think that that is the thorniest of all of the problems, is why did the Creator allow us to suffer so much. Well, this is the density of polarity.This is the density of the great choice. How shall we serve? We’re here.We have power.How will we use the power? Whether it’s power over one other person, like for a mother or father, or husband and wife, or power in a relationship, or whether it is power over a nation, it is the same thing. The issues are the same. The ethics are the same. Will we try to cooperator and work together, or will I decide to use you, and then cast you away if I don’t need you, and manipulate you for my own use if I do need you? So that’s the basic nature of polarity, as I see it, is how we choose to use power.

Those who use power to serve others are generally those that fly under the radar. They’re not famous, for the most part. Now you get somebody like Martin Luther King, or Mahatma Ghandi, and they have risen to the level of flying above the radar. They’ve affected the fate of nations. But for the most part, good people don’t get a lot of power on that level because they’re not interested. They have no hunger for the games that people generally play in order to amass power. They’re not interested in more and more power, so they’re not famous.They don’t get well-known, and they’re, for the most part, they’re everybody we know, who’ll give you the shirt off their back, who bake cookies for bake sales, and kiss their kids goodbye in the morning, and they’re glad to see them when they come home. You know, just regular people. And for the most part, they might not be smart; they might not have gone to college; they might not have benefits. They might be disadvantaged; they might be terribly poor. But, they love people; they love their family; they love their nation; they love—they’re loyal; they have ethics; they know what is right and wrong, or they want to. They want to do the right thing, and that kind of person is making it into the next density. In the kingdom of the heart, it’s not what you know—it’s who you are.


No matter how much you know, if you haven’t opened your heart and started serving other people and getting your kicks from making other people happy and seeing good things happen for others—donating to the Red Cross. It’s not hard to be a server. Every city in the world has soup kitchens. You can go and fix soup for people, whoever you are, wherever you are. You can always help. There is always an old folks’ home to go and sit and talk to the people who don’t have anybody. There is always something you can do. You know, being of service is very basic—we really understand what it is to be of service, whether we intellectually say, “Well, I don’t know exactly what right and wrong is,” we know it when we see it. We can smell it, and we can smell the things that are not of service—corporations where you kill very competitively to get at that next rung. You know about that.You were in that very competitive, busy, busy, New York stuff for fifteen years. That’s tough stuff.


And people are slaughtering each other to get the next rung on the ladder.

In spirit and the politics.

Yeah, and there are politics everywhere. You go to church and there are politics—you can’t get away from it, so no sense being disillusioned by that.It’s just human nature, but you don’t have to be a part of it.

Right. I was inspired to be of service after I read a book by Ram Das called “Path of Service,” and after hearing his work with hospice patients. I was inspired to join a hospice group at Keiser Hospital, and it was quite remarkable the events that unfolded after that. I took the hospice course, and about four weeks into it I came home and my husband asked if it would be okay if his dying mother move in with us.So the hospice group leader said that I wouldn’t be able to take on a hospice patient through Kaiser as long as I had someone in my home who needed my hospice care.So I dedicated my energy to being there for his mother and father while she was dying from cancer, and just two weeks after she passed in our home, my father moved in because he had just finished chemotherapy treatment and was very, very ill from the chemo.Then he stayed in our home and was eventually moved—he moved back up to Canada to be with my mother.They’re Canadians, and after a year of fighting cancer, he just passed away maybe ten days ago.

My sympathies.

Oh, thank you. I was able to sit by his bedside, Carla, and help to surround him with light, and it was just so remarkable after being inspired to serve, all of these opportunities, tremendous opportunities to serve unfolded. The moment I made the decision to serve, to open myself to service…

To do it, yes. You want to be careful what you ask for, huh?

Exactly, isn’t that the truth. And another thing that occurred was that my father, who has always claimed to be a scientist, in fact, he, if asked what his religion was would say, “Science.” So, after he almost died from the chemo treatments and moved into my home, he was aware that I was spiritually seeking, and he came down to the breakfast table one morning, and said, “Bring it on. I just faced my mortality and I’m ready. It’s time for me to open to spirituality.” And I gave him David Wilcock book, and he listened to that on audiotape, and I think that’s about a 14 hour audiotape, and he listened to it intensely and was incredibly moved by it, and that led me to introducing him to the Law of One books, which he read, and then the Urantia book.In the Urantia book he read just the part about the life and times of Jesus, and so this was right before he entered into his last couple of months.He told my sister that he saw Jesus, and he was surrounded by angels, and this was about a week before he passed.So I just felt like that was an incredible opportunity for me to present him with that material, so the synchronistic unfolding of events is just….

That is beautiful; that’s incredible. Thank you for sharing that. Oh.

I like to share those kind of stories, Carla, because your influence is very important in that story, your Law of One books.

I’m so glad. I just feel so glad when you take the information and run with it the way you have. You’ve really worked the program, as they say. Congratulations on getting it, and through living it. You can’t just know it.You’ve got to live it. I’ve discovered that living the Law of One is far more important—if I hadn’t—if Jim and I hadn’t lived the Law of One, it wouldn’t be the same to the organization that it is. If we weren’t still the people that we were when we determined that we were here totally to serve–we’ve given our lives to service, and we’ve totally dedicated ourselves—well, we’ve stayed on the path.

And I think that a big part of this organization is that fidelity, and being true to who you are. So, you really just live it, and whether it comes to you in your process, you go within, you pray, you ask, and then you receive guidance, and then you act on the guidance.Then that becomes real for you, and the process jumps ahead into the next step. But ahead of time, you have no idea what that’s going to be. You get to the suffering, and you’re going, “Lord, I’m truly suffering here.This is the dark night of the soul. Please, I’m stuck. What shall I do?” Then the light dawns.The morning breaks, and you have a plan. All of the sudden, you know: stay in the desert, help other people heal and heal yourself. There you go, and that’s the next fifteen years. And then fifteen years later then you have to start asking again, and then you take another leap forward from the suffering, and it seems to be built on suffering.

It seems to be built on these very difficult times when we have choices to make about how best to serve and how best just to go on. And as we seek for how to serve and what to focus on, then I think we do receive the guidance that we need. And it seems to come magically. I think it’s really important, the part of being hollowed out.You have to let yourself be hollowed out by suffering so that you can hold the Creator’s joy, the Creator’s message, whatever is in it, whatever there is, coming up for you. You hollow yourself out, and you create a chalice of yourself that holds the living water, and then you go to the well, and you say, “Feed me, I’m so thirsty, please.” And the more that you’ve suffered, the bigger cup that you have, and the more you can drink.

That’s a beautiful analogy, Carla. I really like that analogy. It makes the suffering worthwhile, right?

I think so. I think that’s what it’s all about. It’s so that we come to—that we are forced almost into a choice, a point of choice, and then we asked, “Help me with this. I am totally bewildered. What shall I do?” And that asking was so important. And you’ve done it; you’ve done the right thing; you’ve asked, and you’ve received. And I think that point of asking, and not just depending on, “Let me figure it out, let me figure it out.” No. Stop and ask, because guidance is right there, but you’ve got to ask. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it shall be opened unto you. It’s right there in the Bible, as clear as any parable ever is. You’ve got to ask. It’s the free will. Free will comes up again. In order to receive from spirit, you have to ask.

Before we go, I want to ask one last question about the Earth’s shift into the fourth density. Now that we’ve gone past the winter solstice of 2012, maybe you can share with me a little bit about the status of the Earth’s energy.

Well, I think Earth is in fourth density now. It has moved on, and we are receiving fourth-density light, and fourth-density light contains a lot more information.It’s a lot denser—that’s why they call them densities. Every density is more dense with information, more dense with the light. So’ we’re receiving more information than we can really process with our poor old third-density bodies. I think that’s why a lot of people are having so much trouble all of the sudden, because life has changed, and we are still third density.

But, fourth density is a state of mind. We have always been able to achieve fourth density within our minds and our hearts. It’s within me; I feel it. Consciousness is a much higher density. We are higher density creatures within ourselves. It’s our bodies with DNA that’s not geared to be so high, and that’s good. For third density, we needed that, and we’re getting to the point we’re older souls; we don’t really need to get anymore; we don’t need to be hit upside the head. We get it before that time. If we are all one, and that means that we’re never going to get rid of the part that’s dark and mysterious. We simply have to ask those parts to come into the light with us, and to work for us, and then love that part, and protect and respect and accept that part, and forgive that part, and take that part in. You’re integrating. You’re bringing all of that into the light. And when you finally can do that, you can fall in love with yourself. You see what a brave soul you are. How wonderful, how great you’ve been. You’ve done tremendous things with what you’ve been given, and you just have to say out loud, “I really love myself.” And you become healed, and your incarnation is healed. And at that point, you can see other people with a lot more forgiveness and acceptance. Oh, it makes a huge difference, but you have to fall in love with yourself first.That’s a real important step.

I made a shift toward that when I had a realization that the Creator was within me, and I was able to look into the mirror and see the Creator looking back at me. I felt a strong love for the Creator, and so that translated into a love for myself.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

And then, of course, you see the Creator in others, and you are having a conversation with somebody and you’re thinking, “I’m having a conversation with the Creator.” [laughs]

[laughing] It’s like OMG.

Yes, I know. How fortunate am I? [laughs] This has been a remarkable exchange of love and light, Carla, I’m so blessed.

Well, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you very much too. And I know your book’s going to be terrific.

Oh, thank you. I’m going to cherish this time together for all time. And bless you and I hope you heal well from your most recent surgery, Carla. I wish you the very best.

Thank you, God bless.

Bye bye.