Brian Scott interviews Jim on various topics and his experience as the scribe for the Law of One.

Welcome to The Reality Revolution. I’m so incredibly excited. Today, we have Jim McCarty. Jim McCarty was the original scribe for The Law of One material and has been a wonderful shepherd of all of The Law of One material, also contributing much with additional channelings, is an expert on a variety of different topics. And I was incredibly excited that he agreed to come on. And we’re going to talk about The Law of One, the origins, and the philosophy behind it. And I’m just going to try to squeeze as much information as I can in the time we have. So welcome to The Reality Revolution, Jim. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you for having me. I’m very honored to be here.

Well, thank you. For people that don’t know, and I have several videos on my channel discussing it, and I might mis-explain this -Jim can certainly correct me - The Law of One material is material of channeled works, I believe from 1981 to 1984, that was channeled through three people: Don Elkins, Jim McCarty, and Carla Rueckert. Carla Rueckert was the channel. And there’s some history behind it. And we can certainly talk about that. But once they started to channel this information, it was so mind-blowing and the origins of it were so interesting, that when you read this material, it really unlocks the secrets of the universe and the soul and the way that the universe works.

And the best thing I can tell you to do is to go to to get as much information. All of the transcripts of the channelings are available there.

But it’s… it’s like I’m talking to somebody in a famous movie or something. I’m super nervous and excited to talk to somebody who was actually there - that was a part of this incredible channeling that has changed so many people’s lives and really altered the way we look at the universe. So thank you so much, Jim.

There’s a lot of… there’s some interviews that you have on online, and people may already know about you, but tell us a little bit more of how you got into channeling and met Carla and Don and how this process kind of started.

Well, I don’t know where exactly to start, because you know, every step along the way is an important step on anybody’s path.


So right before I met Don and Carla, I was part of what was called the Back to the Land Movement in the seventies where college educated hippies were going back to the land to try to live what David Thoreau… Henry David Thoreau said the simple life.


Simplify, simplify. So I was back there. I built a log cabin in the woods of Central Kentucky. And I didn’t have any power or water - you know, it’s off the grid. But I had a little battery powered radio.

One night in May of 1979, I was listening to a radio station in Lexington, Kentucky - WKQQ. And they were interviewing Don Elkins and Carla Rueckert on the topic of UFOs. And they were talking not about what the ships look like or the occupants, but their philosophy. And they said that these entities have been channeling through Carla for a number of years and through Don as well from the early 60s, and said we are all part of The One Infinite Creator. And The Creator made us all as a way of getting to know Itself better - that this process of evolution that we are in goes through various stages, and each stage is moving us closer and closer to The Creator. And that now we were getting close to going into the fourth density of love and understanding.

And so when I heard all of that, that just made sense to me. And I was trying to figure out how to meet Don and Carla because I was about seventy or eighty miles away from Louisville where they were located. But I was lucky. About four or five months later, we all had co-ops, we ordered food we couldn’t grow ourselves. And I found that there’s people from the other side of the same county I lived in, who remembered my co-op. And I was talking to him about this interview I heard of Don and Carla. And they said, “Well, we’re members of their meditation group. We can introduce you.” So I say, “Great!”

So for the next year, I drove up to Louisville every Sunday night for their meditations and got to be good friends with them, and even helped them move from the apartment they lived in in downtown… close to downtown Louisville to a nice one-story house out on the edge of Louisville with a few acres of land. And so I helped them move, and they invited me to join them. So I joined them in December of 1980. And we got along just great. And three weeks later, the Ra contact began.

Wow. And it very much sounds like it was meant to be - the timing of it and everything, doesn’t it?

It does, it does.

So, I want to go to that. And first, my first question is: have you had people from Hollywood contact you? Because the story… the information is interesting. But the story of it coming about is a story in itself beyond just the information. And so I’ve always, stepping back from what Ra is saying, wanted to know behind the scenes, once you started accessing this material, how it affected you.

I mean, you’re the one transcribing it. And Don is starting to get these questions. And the whole time, they’re really… the thing that adds to the credibility of it is that Carla didn’t even know. You guys kept it purposely quiet. You did not tell her what was going on for scientific purposes, which is amazing. And so for like, say, like three weeks or something, she didn’t know what was being said.

Because people always question channeling. People always question from their own perspective. “Oh, they’re not really saying anything” or “It’s just a part of themselves or an aspect of themselves.” “We see people channeling on TV. They’re doing it with their eyes open without any preparation.” So we all, I guess, have to kind of evaluate any channeling individually with our own… How does it feel to our own hearts and what we think.

But the way that you guys did it, the scientific manner of it, was so credible. What was going through your mind when you started getting this information and how mind-blowing it was?

Well, it was truly mind-blowing. Don had been in the field of channeling for nineteen years previous to this. And he had been building up and getting better and better information as time went on. And so for him, this was the culmination - he recognized this as about as good as it gets.


For me, this is really my first experience with channeling. So I was involved in something that was all new. And it was so incredible, as I was there in the sessions and then transcribing it later, that it just made sense. It… Well, I think it’s the same thing for so many people who read it. They say it’s like a letter from home. That it’s not something that’s totally new…

It feels like something I already knew, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, that it’s in you. It’s in… It’s all…


There’s a lot of people here that have come to Earth to be of service, and this is a letter from home. So that’s basically what we felt - that we were being very, very privileged, that this was such an honor.


…Hardly believe [that it happened], you know, because we were… we were trying to be serious seekers and trying to be careful and assiduous and dedicated and sincere. But you know, everybody falls short.

Of course.

And we felt very human to, and we’ve felt so lucky to be there. So that was basically it. Carla was not there… She was in… she was not in her body while this was going on. She was with those of Ra, supposedly at what’s called the fifth density - the density of light. And she was not aware of what was going on there either. For Carla, the Ra contact was like going to sleep and then waking up really tired and worn out.

It took her energy. So…

Yeah. We had to had to discover ways of revitalizing her and giving her more energy as time went on. This contact was a product of our free will. Ra said that they couldn’t tell us something straight out. They just had to wind our way through various mysteries, because it was a free-will action that we were involved in.

And so when Carla finally said to Don, “You know, you just got to ask Ra if I can read this. You know, it’s been twenty-one sessions now. You guys keep talking to me about ‘mind/body/spirit complex’ and am I ‘distorted towards hunger or sleep.’ Come on.”

So Don finally did ask in session 21 if it would be okay for Carla to read the material. And Ra said, “Yes, it’s no problem at all because we have her with us. She is not there to distort it in any way whatsoever. So it’s fine for her to read it.” And so she…

She ever tried to unlock what happened in between those times? Did she ever, like go into hypnosis or try to get a glimpse of that fifth density that she went to while she was channeling? Did you ever see it maybe in dreams or have a taste of it or have a way of describing it to you?

Somewhere along about halfway through the sessions, she mentioned to Don that there was something like a bleed-through that was happening - that she was barely aware of a communication taking place.

And she wondered, you know, what exactly that was. So Don asked Ra. And Ra said, “Well, just like your baby in a crib when it hears the words of the adults around it, it is aware there’s words being spoken, but it doesn’t speak that language yet. So this is something that can be… It probably will continue.” But it never got any more than that. She never was aware of the communication there, just aware that something was going on.

So I want to talk about the… how you guys started each of these sessions. You would conduct the LBRP, the… to cleanse the room. And there was something more happening when three of you are doing it. You’re all kind of lending your light as a level of protection, as we later learn on in later… there was negative or entity serving of service to self that we’re trying to intrude and get their word or stop it or… Am I correct in that description?

Right. Ra suggested that anytime anybody channels information - anybody…


…And it has a possibility of helping create changes in consciousness in a positive sense, the negative entities have the right to tempt you away from what you’re doing and have their point of view presented.


So that’s why a lot of channels start off positive. And then they don’t know exactly how to keep that positive contact. Carla discovered, in her conscious channeling, that not only do you have to tune yourself to be the highest vibration possible, which almost every channel knows. But you also have to challenge any contact, every time you channel, in the name of whatever it is that’s at the heart of your being, what you live for, but you would gladly die for. You have to challenge them in that name. She challenged in the name of Jesus the Christ because, from the age of two, Jesus was her Lord and Savior.


So, in that way, you have the ability to challenge such entities because you will be tempted. That’s just part of it. That’s a natural part of the evolutionary process. There are negative entities, and they deserve to be heard too. Because all of we what we do here in this third density is a free will choice.


We have to use our own discrimination at all times with all material, including the Ra contact and The Law of One. We have to use our own discrimination. And so these negative entities have the right to be heard. That’s basically it.


And people… And so channels need to know that they need to challenge any entity at every time to know whether or not they really want to hear from that entity. Because it’s a crowded… As Carla said, it’s a crowded universe. There are all kinds of entities out there.

So these entities can come through saying that they were Ra and not be Ra. Could that have happened during any of the sessions?

Now, we took precautions…


…To ensure that did not happen. Not only did we purify the room with the banishing ritual, but also Ra gave us a ritual specifically to use for the Ra contact called The Circle of One - walking The Circle of One. And it was Don and I walking around Carla as she was lying on the bed ready to go into trance.

And it began with, “Why are we here?” Don would say that, and then I would say, “We seek The Law of One.” Then Don would say, “Why do we seek Ra?” “Ra is a humble messenger of The Law of One.” And then together, we would say…. both together, “We purify this place in The Law of One. Let no entity enter the circle who is not a member of The Law of One.” And then that basically was the way we purified the circle every time. If we made any kind of mistake in that ritual - if one of us tripped, for example, physically, which happened once, or we said a word incorrectly - that provided an opening for a negative entity to come through. So we had to immediately to repeat the walking of the Circle.


So that was how we protected Carla and the purity of the information. Because that was just the way it was. We knew that those entities of negative nature would always be looking for a way to come in.

So it looked… You guys had to even align her body and the Bible at a certain angle. It was that specific, which is fascinating to me.

Right. Yeah.

So before… You had at least an inkling from the other entities you had channeled that this was possible. You were channeling some of The Confederation before you channeled Ra. And it just happened accidentally? In the first channeling, Ra is kind of exploring the different mediums to channel. Am I right? He goes through Don and then someone… you?


It was someone else?

I was out buying groceries at this time.


The way the Ra contact began was Don and Carla were teaching one of the Sunday night meditation students how to channel.


So he was there. And that was the time that Ra picked come out. Carla had had two… She had never been in trance before except for two occasions the previous November. A member of our meditation group’s wife passed away. And she told him that she would contact him through Carla, to let him know that she was okay, and there was certain information that they had between them that she would give him through Carla, to let him know that it was her.


Those two sessions that Carla had were the first sessions in trance. So Ra said later that those were the preparatory sessions - those were meant to be. And a part of the whole puzzle was being put together for the Ra contact to occur.


So that was how Carla got experience with the channeling through trance.

Fascinating. So of course, it’s a big world. And everybody wants to say they’re channeling Ra. You go on YouTube and, “Yeah, I channeled Ra just sitting here at my desk. Just started channeling.” And I find that interesting. I’d like to ask you: what do you think when you hear that people are channeling Ra after everything that you went through - the specificity of it - that people are just casually just sitting there channeling Ra. What do you think is happening?

Well, I cannot say for sure. I can say that it’s probably not likely, because there were preconditions for the Ra contact. First, there had to be at least three people in the circle. There had to be the question and answer type of format, because Ra only used that because they thought that was way to ensure our free will - so that they didn’t give these what sometimes have been called “cosmic sermonettes.” Brad Steiger called them “cosmic sermonettes.”


They didn’t do that because they felt that would be abridgement of our free will - maybe that’s not what we’re looking for.


So it had to be question and answer. And it had to be the type of channeling where the instrument leaves its body. So if somebody can meet all those three priorities, you know, you really are channeling Ra. But I haven’t heard anybody else doing that. 1


But I would say to anybody who’s wondering, “Well, is that worthwhile information?” Again, you have to use your own discrimination.

Your own.

Maybe they’re… Maybe it’s Ra. Maybe it’s not. But listen to it. Take it in.


See what you think about it.

So the first realization when I’m reading The Law of One - and it’s all fascinating - is that the science fiction fan in me is so excited. “Oh, wow, Venus had a bunch of people on it.” So I want to talk about that from your perspective. You learned that Venus, three billion years ago, had… what was it? Six million or twelve… How many people were… it was a pretty small number for that planet.

Yeah, the total was thirty-eight million…

Thirty-eight million.

…But only six and a half million graduated and became what we call Ra.

So my first question… I know that… I’m sure that Don wanted to. Did you choose? You could have gone into more questions about Venus. Like, “We would love to know about your history. Did you have… Did you have space vehicles? Did you watch TV? Was there an internet?” You know? Didn’t you kind of have a part of you that wanted to know more, just to share a little bit more about Venus? Did you choose not to do that because there’s so many other questions? What was your… What was your… Did you choose not to? Or do you wish you had?

We asked some questions about Ra…


…And about Venus and how they progressed in their evolution there. And they said that they were a very, I guess you’d say, harmonious civilization…


…With very little tendency towards the adverse relationships, any types of wars. So they progress themselves through what they called sexual energy exchanges and relationships with each other and high sexual magic. We are discovering…

…This is a planet of orgies that were going on. 2 Right? Of course, that may not be, but I’m thinking, “Wow, it’s completely different than what we imagined.” People are exchanging sexual energies on a…

Well, they also discovered that the monogamous relationship - the one to one relationship - was the most effective…


…To progress in evolution, but that there were different ways of using the energy exchanges. There’s mental exchanges, physical exchanges, sexual exchanges. And the sexual exchange was something that they used to what they said, “penetrate the veil of forgetting,” and discovered more of the tarot, which describes… This is advanced information here though.


Describes the archetypical mind.


How we have evolved in our process of evolution.


The archetypical mind from the… you know, from the tarot, is twenty-two cards.


And seven are for the mind, seven for the body, seven for the spirit, and then there’s The Choice. So what they were just doing was describing the nature of evolution, and how we can accelerate it. And they discovered that through these exchanges - this high sexual magic is what they call it. And they saw it as being very helpful as a means of evolving, and it gave them a perspective that continued to expand. And we now have what’s called the tarot on this planet, and the archetypical mind that can accelerate evolution. Now, as I said, though, that’s in book four, and that’s the more advanced type of information.


And people who’ve studied that say that it is very helpful, but it also is the most difficult information to understand that came through.

It really is. It’s the part where I’m going, “I don’t…” Some of it gets lost. I have to…. some of that have to reread. And it’s definitely the part where we’re going up another level when we start talking about the tarot…


…And the matrix of the mind and all that stuff. It’s still very fascinating. It feels credible to me. And it’s wonderful that we have that information. It’s also fascinating to think that we have the tarot because of them - that they originally had brought it… that information here. At least that was implied. Am I correct?



Right. Right.

So they’re not necessarily saying that you use the tarot to predict your future, but to understand your mind. Is that a better question?

Right. Right.


Right. They felt that predicting the future was not one of the reasons they came up with the tarot. There were later entities, after they left the tarot with the Egyptians, from Sumeria and Chaldea, who are into astrology and predictions.


So they mixed the tarot and astrology together. And as Ra said, there were uneven results from that. So when we would question them about the various concepts of each of the tarot cards, each of the images, some of them are astrological, and were put there by the Egyptians, because they got that information from the Sumerians and the Chaldeans. And so Ra would say, “Well, that is astrological. You should remove that.” And, “We’ll give you better information here in place of that.”

Love it.

So that was the way that they did it. They did not see divination as being particularly helpful. Although, if you do take the tarot cards, and you mix in the Major Arcana with the rest of the Minor Arcana and the Court Arcana, that people can make credible predictions into the future - into what we call the future - by using them. But that’s not what they devised it for.

Right. So what does your instinct tell you that they looked like? They don’t really say. But we didn’t know they didn’t have opposable thumbs, right?

Well, they didn’t tell us that.

They didn’t tell us. They just said that we had opposable thumbs.


Right. And Mars had opposable thumbs. Right.

They apparently walked among the Egyptians eleven thousand years ago in answer to a call for The Law of One information. And at that time, they attempted to appear as they did when they were on Venus. They said they were tall and slender, and their skin had a golden luster to it.


They were enough different from the Egyptians in their appearance, and in what they had to say and how they said it that the Egyptians began worshipping them as gods…


…Which was not their intent at all. They were very discouraged that that was happening…


…Because the Egyptians were distorting their words, saying… and their meanings. They said that for every word or concept they shared, there were thirty different misperceptions of that concept. So they cut their visits short, and left the Egyptians and looked for ways to… They felt it was their responsibility. These distortions that had been given to The Law of One by the Egyptians, it was Ra’s responsibility to try to correct those at a later time.

Almost like they had created karma in doing what they had done.

Right. That’s exactly it. [inaudible] with the best of intentions.

With the best of intentions.

They tried, but they discovered that the information they gave the Egyptians was reserved for the rich and powerful.


And they said that was not at all the way they intended it because we are all one. We are all the same.


Nobody’s better than anybody else. So that was another reason why they had to leave and try to find a way to correct the distortions, as they call them, that had been given to The Law of One. So that was one of the two reasons that they contacted our group was to try to correct those distortions.


And also because we’re so close to entering the fourth density. We’d basically begun entering the fourth density of love and understanding. And that was the second and major reason for contacting us - to give us information about that if we asked about it, at a certain degree.

Right. So I want to talk about moving to the fourth density. My friend Aaron asked me to ask you… It says that there’s a seventy-five thousand year period in the third density, and then we move to the fourth density. And it wasn’t clear… He wanted to ask, “Is it a five hundred thousand year period in the fourth density? Is it a longer period once we’re in that love and understanding density? Or is it another seventy-five years?” I didn’t quite… He wanted to know more clarification of that.

Yeah. Yeah, well, it’s much longer in the fourth density.


It’s thirty million years long.

Thirty million years, okay.

Incarnations are ninety thousand years long.


And the reason it’s so short here in the third density is that the catalyst - the things that help us to grow Ra called catalyst - misperceptions with people, arguments, or any difficulties and jealousy. All of that is catalyst. We can use it to grow.


It’s grist for the mill. And is so much more intense here - one hundred times more intense here than anywhere else. But it results in The Choice - our choice of being positive or negative, to go forward in our evolution. And this choice is what is so important. And it is, as Ra said, “is the work of but a moment, but the axis upon which the rest of the creation turns.” So the rest of the creation is merely a refinement of the choice we make here.

So the fourth density is thirty million years long. The fifth density is fifty million years long. Sixth density - seventy-five million years long. And so all of the choice that we make here, and all the things that bring us to that choice are… takes a great deal of effort. But because we have this condensed time here, we have this veil of forgetting where we don’t remember previous incarnations, we have to start over, it seems, and learn what we preincarnatively chose to learn here.

And this is something that because we have that veil of forgetting, it happens much more quickly here. At an earlier point in the creation of this universe, there was no veil of forgetting. And this third density illusion took much longer because there was no veil. And the various entities - what we would call our sun body, Ra would call a Logos or a love, the creative principle that created the universe after The Creator created it.

All these entities, then, have this way of giving entities in the third density a chance to grow and help The Creator know Itself. The Creator knowing Itself is the basic reason why all of the creation was made - The Creator wanted to know Itself by creating this vast infinite creation with entities like us who had free will. You could use that free will to make choices. And every choice we make gives The Creator more knowledge of Itself.

The choice we make has the potential for taking us closer to The Creator. So at some point, there was no veil of forgetting, and the third density took a long time. So the various Logoi said, “Well, we’d like to speed it up a bit if we could, and help The Creator to know Itself more intensely. Because these entities in the third density don’t have that veil. They know they’re The Creator, so they don’t have a whole lot of reason to change their position or their status. We’re The Creator. Everybody’s The Creator. Why change that? So…

Makes sense.

…the veil, then, between the conscious and the unconscious mind kept us from knowing all of that - all of the truth. That this is a creation of light made out of love. It is a creation of unity and we’re all part of The Creator. So we have to work real hard here to get to that point where we think that might be true. And we have the faith that is true and the will to pursue that ability. But it’s because of that veil of forgetting, that was discovered later on in the evolutionary process, that made the evolution that much more effective.

We don’t live in a creation where everything’s already known, and all we have to do is find out what’s already known. It’s the creation of continuous evolving of knowing - there is a great deal of knowledge to know. And we do think we know quite a bit, but it’s just a little bit.

It’s just a little bit.

There’s a whole lot more. You know, the mystics of all ages have discovered we live in a Creation of unity. The Creator is within each one of us waiting to be discovered - showing little parts of Itself now and then to help us out. So that’s why it took a little longer earlier, and why it doesn’t take so long now. But after this third density, and we’ve made the graduation, then we’ll refine this choice. Those refinements take a long time. It’s a very slow process. So…

That helps me to understand much more. So when I read about Ra moving to fourth density, were only six million out of thirty-six million or whatever… Thirty-two million, I think you said. That means on our planet… So what happened on Venus? Did all those that didn’t move to fourth density, did they move on? Did they incarnate somewhere else? Did they die? As the process of moving to fourth density? Is there some radical change?

A lot of people right now are talking about a new Earth which have reflections, a little bit, of this movement to fourth density. Other channeled beings have talked about the same things that have mentioned in The Law of One, such as the ninety thousand year timespan and moving to new bodies. And so my first thought is, “Okay, are we going to go through this radical upheaval if a large group of people on the planet moved to fourth density, or am I misunderstanding?

There’s always… There’s usually - I won’t say always - there’s very seldom always is. There’s some anomalies. But when there is a graduation into the fourth density, those who are able to make it then remain on this planet - on Earth. This will be their home planet for the fourth density.

Those entities who do not make it… And this planet, by the way, is inhabited by many entities who’ve already been through the third density and didn’t make it. We have a lot of repeaters here. So when you don’t make it, you go to another third density planet and try again.

Everybody will eventually make it. Nobody gets left behind. There is an infinity of time for this to happen. So if there is a certain number of the population or percentage doesn’t make it, they will choose another planet like they’ve already done probably once coming to Earth.

That’s what happened to the entities on Venus that didn’t make it into the fourth density there. But some of them were able to stay and make it… Ra was apparently graduated after the second cycle of twenty-five thousand years. There are three different twenty-five thousand year cycles to add up to the seventy-five thousand years.

Each one has its own harvest. And entities can individually harvest themselves during the cycle without having to, you know, to get, you know… The mystics of all ages have basically done that. 3

Ra said that there have been various entities who were able to make it on their own. And most of them go in the positive sense. If they make the harvest before the rest of the planet has a chance to be harvested, they don’t go on. They come back. They help out because their service to others. That’s the whole idea. Positively oriented entities want to be of service to others, to their brothers and sisters who haven’t made it.

In fact, Ra belongs to what is called The Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow.

Of Sorrow, which is…

Well, a planet like Earth right now, for such a long time, there’s been so many wars throughout the history here that… And people don’t know that The Creator is in them, you know? There’s sorrow. And they have arguments, adversary relationships, and bellicosity everywhere. That is basically one way of calling. The Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow answer calls for their assistance. And it doesn’t have to be, “We need you to come here and help us out.” It can be, “We are in agony. We are feeling so badly. There is so much dissension, so much a lack of hope. You know, what can we do?” That is a call.


And just their behavior, it can be a call for assistance. So they answer. They come. And sometimes, they come in the form of what’s called wanderers. Part of their social memory complex. And that’s… A social memory complex is a planetary complex that all… they all have decided to be of service to others, and they are of one being.

They pointed the needle in one direction. And so that’s what Ra was when they graduated from Venus. And some of their entities come here to Earth and go through the same forgetting that everybody else goes through. But there’s something in them that says, “I’m here for a reason. I’m here to help out.” And that becomes their reason for existence. And they hopefully, then, have brought certain talents that they could use. And a lot of the people you see channeling are probably wanderers. A lot of people in the so-called New Age Movement are probably wanderers.

And obviously meditation groups. And you’re trying to figure out the reason for their existence and how to move spiritually [inaudible], they’re probably wanderers. Or you’re going to become a wanderer when they make it, you know?

Right. So this… Did the percentage with the service to self and service to others… when you see the five percent service to others, the radical path to service to self, and never moving beyond six and a half density. But then when you… it kind of unveils a lot of what has gone on on the planet. There are competing forces on this planet that are advocating service to self at the same time. And we’re battling with that. Do you think those service to self others have hurt our chances of graduation? Or has it become a catalyst to graduate?

What is your… Having lived with this knowledge for so long, and seeing evidence of the service-to-self distortions that are around, how… What’s your impression? How do we… Because they’re still a part of us, as you… It’s The Law of One. There, that’s just another self.

Yeah, yeah.

It’s… So how do we… how do we… As a somebody that, personally, is of service to others… I don’t… And… How do I… how do I manage that knowledge and information when I see it in the world? Do you understand my question? I’m trying to put it in the best way that…

Well, I think I do. Let me know if I don’t answer your question.


I’ll try again. Anybody who wants to be of service to others and sees the world around them in disarray - whether it’s individuals or groups or whatever - what you can do is send them love and light. You see all as The Creator.


And you send everybody love and light. And maybe there’s something in a practical way that you can do in your own community - to help feed the poor…


…Or to help establish meditation groups so that people can come and meditate and learn more. I say meditation is the most important tool that anybody can use to determine what they can do to be of service to others. Because each of us has made preincarnative choices before we got here. That if we’re able to realize those and to learn what we wish to learn, will move us along the path of service to others in the way that we had hoped.

So in meditation: you can go into your meditations and ask, “Why am I here? What can I do?” And then wait. There is very likely going to be something either in the meditation that gives you an indication, or there’s some way that your guides will contact you through a book at the proper time, meeting a certain person at the proper time, being in the right place at the proper time. Something will happen synchronistically. You’ll say, “Oh, my goodness, how did that happen? It looks like it was an accident.” But there aren’t any accidents.

But you can ask, and you have the will to serve and the desire and the faith that it is possible. Those two things - the will and the faith - are your most important ingredients for moving along the path of finding out what your service is, what you can do, what your next step is. Those… I’d say meditation, will and faith. Those are the ways that you could deal with whatever is happening in the world.

Fantastic. So if I… I have meditations on my channel quite a bit. And if I wanted to create a meditation, I would just ask those questions, right? Just basing it around the idea of inviting and openly inviting answers to these questions? Is that the best way for me to summarize that?



It’s usually more helpful to ask one question for meditation.


And maybe keep asking it in meditations until you get an answer that you feel is really nice.

Oh, okay.

Now, you can also do this with your dreams. Yeah, well, this is a little more advanced technique, though. You can ask those same questions before you go to bed and ask your… either your higher self or your unconscious mind or your guides to give you some sort of an indication in a dream. And the same thing can happen. But like I say, that’s a little bit more advanced than meditation.


Meditation is available to anybody.


Anybody can do that.

One of the really fascinating and incredible concepts that comes from The Law of One for me, personally, is the idea of the higher self, which I still, with the way that Ra describes it at some points, don’t understand it completely. But the idea that there’s this version of me that has experienced what I’m going through already and has an understanding of all these different incarnations. And that I can access, that is there, this higher self.

Once I read The Law of One material, I started, you know, openly asking my higher self on a regular basis. And it felt like I was… That my higher self is willing and ready to help me - very much like Ra, he doesn’t want to violate my free will. Am I right in understanding that? Is there ways that we can access our higher self? Does that make sense?

Oh, yeah, sure. Our higher self is supposedly located in the middle of the sixth density - halfway through seventy-five million years of experience. And they have all the knowledge of the path that we’ve traveled and could travel - not necessarily what we will exactly travel, because free will is paramount in this infinite creation.


So if we ask with sincerity, with again, the faith that there is a higher self and the will to know - to live by what we get - the information that is inspirational in nature, we can ask for assistance, and the higher self will find some way to guide us. Some people are open to various ways - maybe images or actual words or opportunities, like I said, the right person, the right book, the right place at the right time. There are all kinds of ways for the higher self to help us. Sometimes in dreams, as well. So there will be some kind of response if we are sincerely looking for it and we want it. The higher self is there for us, to guide us, and in some instances to protect us.


So but we need to ask. We need to ask to get that type of assistance.

You’ve explored The Law of One further beyond these in your channelings with Q’uo. And so you have… My first question I was going to ask you was: “Was there any questions that you wish that you would have asked Ra that you didn’t get a chance to ask?” But you… I thought maybe you kind of asked those questions to Q’uo a little bit, but… What questions would you like to ask?

Oh, over the years, you know, we thought of different things that we could ask.

Of course.

Of course, like you said, we’d always like to know more about Ra. But they seemed to be rather… They said that they were humble messengers of The Law of One. And when we did ask, we got some of the information I shared with you earlier.


But basically, we just got, “Well, we went through these densities. And you know, we’re…”


“…Trying to get into the seventh density.” And they didn’t give us a lot of information.


I guess we’d like to know more. And we only got through the mind portion of the archetypical mind in specific questions. We’d love to have more on the body and the spirit. On… We did pretty well, I think, on the history of Earth and the other planets in our solar system. I think Don had this one way of looking at the way we were able to ask questions. He said, “As your circle of knowledge grows, it touches more that you don’t know.”


So there are various avenues. In every avenue we took, we could have gone further.


So there’s… Everything you see in there, we would like to have amplification [inaudible]

Of course. So we were honored to have Don asking a lot of these questions because some of them are mind-blowing. You can see that his knowledge is behind a lot of it. And I really love his expansion of the idea of the Logos. And of course, after I read this material, you know, I’m never going to look at the sun the same way again when I’m… when I’m sitting out in the sun. It’s not just me sitting out in the sun. It’s me talking to the sun, me trying to form of communication. Do you think that we could channel the sun? Do you think it’s channelable? Or no?

I really don’t know. That’s a good question. Ra suggested that the sun bodies… Any Logos or sun body does not go through the evolutionary process like we do.


They are all densities at once. They created everything in our particular either solar system or galaxy.


They form this pattern, which we call the archetypical mind, that is the nature of our evolutionary process. So there is actually a council on Saturn.

It’s called The Council of Nine or The Guardians - that are just about as close to Logos entities I think as you could get. I think they are, you know, sixth and seventh density. And there have been two sources, I guess, in our world that channeled The Nine.

The Nine, right.

Dr. Puharich and Mark Probert back in the 50s in the 60s.

I will definitely check them out.

Yeah, as far as I know, though, there haven’t been any contacts with a Logos entity.


Although, if you are successful in making contact with your higher self and then can make it all the way through the… from the red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo and violet energy centers… Like the mystics of old, and current days as well have done, you can actually channel The Creator.

You make contact, as Ra said, with intelligent infinity, which is The Creator, or God or the spirit or oneness - there’s lots of names for it.

But that was possible as well.

So the intelligent infinity stuff, I’m fascinated… I dedicated a whole episode on it. I took all of the times that Ra mentions intelligent infinity…


…Just to break it down and kind of read them all in one thing. And so, my question… There’s an implication that on different planets in the universe, there’s a point where a civilization reaches where they can realize they can communicate with intelligent infinity on a larger scale. And there’s a huge advancement that occurs. And my question was… I mean, how can… What can I do to access intelligent infinity?

And they kind of give it some explanation. We… It’s through meditation and accessing these different rays. But just to refine it a little bit through your understanding, having all these years since, you’ve kind of had a time to really think about intelligent… It’s not really channeled, is it? It’s just a force like electricity. Or is it… is it a living communicative being that has a back and forth? What is your impression of intelligent infinity? Because that blew me in my mind. A very fascinating part of The Law of One material.

People do channel intelligent infinity in a variety of ways. People who have psychic abilities, they’ve been through different types of initiation, or they have spiritual awakenings, and they’ve been able to use their catalysts and grow through the various energy centers, can channel intelligent infinity in healing, teaching, or in prophesizing, or in speaking of greater ways of being of service. I guess you’d say that’d be something similar to predicting the future. There’s all kinds of ways of channeling that. And various psychics, whether… you know, there’s various ways of healing, various ways of teaching. All of these have either intelligent energy or intelligent infinity being channeled.

Intelligent energy is usually associated with the indigo ray between the eyes, the brow. Intelligent infinity is usually associated with the crown chakra. So, depending upon what people have access… in one of those two or both, they can be channeling various types of information or experience or healing. And that’s the way it basically works. It’s a type of initiation when you make contact with either of those centers.


And then you bring through the energy that is your particular talent, shall we say. Again, one of the things I think that is really important to realize… that we are all one, but we are also unique. Each one of us has a unique path. No two paths or people are the same. No two channelings with intelligent infinity are the same.

There is… But there are similarities. Like we all have two hands, two legs, and so forth. We’re similar, but we’re different. We look different when we have two hands, two legs, arms, legs - you know, whatever. So we’re unique, and we are one at the same time.

So do you ponder… There’s a little comment that Ra makes about the archetypal mind, and how some of Ra’s brothers and sisters had accessed or seen these other archetypal minds in other solar systems. And that thought, just [mind-blowing sound effect] Okay, you start to imagine… It’s almost like it’s a playground for the Logos in each of these solar systems.


We’re kind of experimenting also with the archetypal mind by adding different facets and factors. So the variability of it, when I look up in the stars, is truly mind boggling. Have you ever tried to fathom what… what if they were to change the archetypal mind? Or how… Has that… have you ever gone through and played around with those concepts?

Well, Ra suggested that in the beginning, there was one Primal Logos or Great Central Sun. And it had one archetypical mind that each succeeding Logos – sub-Logos - would refine. It wouldn’t add to it or subtract from it. It would refine it in a way it would see like adding to. So that, as Ra said, they had far wanderers, it went to other distant Logoi. And they met these archetypical minds. It staggered their intellect. It staggered their imagination.

I love that.

It’s baffling, you know? They… It was just a totally different world, although they were just refinements upon the original primal Logos’ archetypical mind, but refinements in such a degree that they were… they had a lot to learn, you know.

Right. Yeah. So I also want… For people watching this interview, it’s… You’ve done a lot more than just The Law of One. Your channelings with Q’uo and… some of your other writings, and also Carla’s other writings - there’s so much…

People always come to you about The Law of One, but there’s so much more that you’ve done. You’ve shepherded this information, and so I want to thank you for that. You’ve had some other experiences with channelings.

So first, let me ask you: when you start your channel… when you start your channel, do you know it? Do you have a feeling there’s something in your body that you know? Or do you remember it? Like, was it like Carla when you’re channeling? Or are you halfway there? What is your experience when you channel?

Well, I go through the same tuning process that Carla did. And I always ask that the words be given to me one at a time slowly, so that I can perceive them clearly. And we’ve been channeling Q’uo since 1986.

We’ve got over, I think, fifteen hundred different channelings of Q’uo. And some of them, especially the ones that Carla did, are absolutely beautiful.

Yes, they’re amazing,

They’re just amazing. They really, really are. They go into more detail about some of the concepts that Ra was more general about.


We didn’t go into detail, like you said. We didn’t go as far with it as we maybe would have wanted to [inaudible] ask about too. But Q’uo would go into the details that were so inspiring and…

So I asked for that to be as specific as possible, a word at a time, because I would like to do it clearly, and to not imagine or add my own… type of feeling to it or thoughts about it. I want it to be Q’uo. Although, The Confederation’s always said in their conscious channeling, they feel that it is a good balance to have some of what the channel’s experience and knowledge is to call upon, to verify each of our spiritual paths - it’s not just a channel.

Each entity on the planet… that a channel might represent some of what is being learned by everybody on the planet. So they use some of the information that correlates with what they’re giving, as examples, for example.

To show how what you are all learning is a basis for what is the truth of your existence, and how you’re moving through your spiritual process. So, I see, sometimes, a thought will come into my mind that Q’uo gives me that is something that is familiar to me already.

But I always feel more comfortable when I don’t know anything about what I’m channeling. So that, you know, “I didn’t know that! That had to come from somebody else!”

But I go through the same tuning and challenging that Carla always recommended. So… And I do the banishing ritual every day in this room - this is a room where we meditate in.



Right. Okay. S… And I also recommend anybody get a chance that wants to know how to channel… channel… Carla wrote a fantastic book that is a guidebook on how to channel. The… Am I correct? I mean, if you read that book, it’s her experience with channeling, but she describes all of the different doubts, and the process…


…And what you go through in channeling. And I thought it was wonderful. Yes, very much so.

It’s… Yeah, it’s to help people… basically people who are already channeling to refine the process. It’s always best to learn from an experienced channel because there is so much to know before you actually get channeling. How to tune yourself. What, you know, what is the heart of your spiritual journey?

Who am I? How can I challenge? You know. How can I access my guides to help me in the process of tuning? And there’s just… When we’ve done it in the past… We have a channeling group going on now - practice channeling. And it’s been going for three years. And we are still learning, but they’re getting, you know, very good at it. And you need at least three people in a group to be able to channel. Carla always said that three was the minimum because that somehow universalizes the message that you get. Channeling by yourself or with just two people… Usually people… If people do that, it’s only wise to do that with your own guides. It’s personal to you.

But if you channel other sources outside yourself, you really do need at least three people in the group to make it universal and to protect the one doing the channeling.

What information have you found from these newer channelings since ’86, like you said? I think there was somebody else that you channeled that was from The Confederation… Was it… It starts with a “T”?


Latwii. Right.


Have you found any information from these sources that have added to your knowledge that we can… that you can share with us for people that maybe haven’t gone through all of that treasure trove of different channelings, that maybe can enhance our knowledge or understanding of The Law of One?

Well like I said, Q’uo and Latwii both… Well actually, to let you know who Q’uo is: It took us a while to ask them who they were because “quo” in Latin, if you’ve had Latin, means “who” or “what.” So that by the very name, they were suggesting maybe we should ask who they were. And they’re actually a principle.

The first channel we ever had was Hatonn at the fourth density.

It was part of Q’uo. Latwii from the fifth density is part of Q’uo.

And in a step-down fashion, Ra from the sixth density is also part of Q’uo.

So Q’uo is a principle, a combination of fourth, fifth, and sixth densities. So they have been able to elaborate a lot of the material we got in The Law of One. Just about anything you can mention in The Law of One, at some point, somebody in our meditation group has asked about that. Whatever you can find in there has been asked about.

So it’d be hard for me to say… Everything that you’ve read has been elaborated on in some fashion by our channelings here - most especially of Q’uo.

My imagination loves to run wild when they mention The Confederation. I see like a Justice League - this big beautiful building on some planet with a… You know, is… And their people are meeting in a big circle. How do you… Is there a physical place where The Confederation…? Or is it just… Is it just in a spiritual…? Do you think there’s a physical place where they… there’s an actual headquarters? I mean, we have a… We have Saturn as like a headquarters, kind of, of this density.


Right? You think there’s a… Is there a place where The Confederation meets? We fly a space ship…

I don’t know. I honestly don’t know. We never asked. I would be kind of surprised if there were…


Because they tend to be universal in their experience of each other. They are aware in this Confederation… Also there are infinite confederations throughout the universe.

So our particular Confederation is… Our local Confederation tends to operate according to whoever has the skills that’s being asked for or called for by anybody in this general area - various solar systems. There is somebody usually in The Confederation that can answer the call. Sometimes they’re simply… They send love and light to a planet.

And that is available for the planetary population to access, perhaps in their dreams, or their meditations, or in their “aha” moments as they’re moving through their life and there’s a coincidence that, you know, sparks interest in one direction or another. Or maybe they will send various entities, like those of Ra, to a planet like Earth, to help make amends for the distortions in The Law of One that happened because of a previous experience with various portions of the planetary population. All kinds of reasons are available for why and how various portions of The Confederation go out in service to others or send some portion of themselves as wanderers, or as love, as light, as healing, as many things as you can imagine, that would draw people to a planet, are available as a means by which The Confederation finds Itself in contact with various portions or populations on the planet.

So when you… It’s nice to have an expert. So when I want to send love and light, how do I do it? If I want to send love and light to my girlfriend or to a group or even the planet or something… I can just… I can imagine them in a meditation. But the expert who has been sending love and light regularly: how do you do it?

Well, I try to use visualization. I think the most important thing, though, is the intention to do that.

Whatever your intention is in your meditative state… And I think meditation is the very best way to do it.

But you can do it consciously in contemplation, if you wish. If you’re driving in a car, you can just… You can do it the best you can. You can’t meditate in the car. But in your meditations, intend to send the love and light to a certain person or group. Attempt to visualize that person or group. Then see the love and the light imbuing them with its presence, so that it can almost be breathed in, shall we say, through their lungs and their nostrils or through every pore in their being, or in their very being which surrounds them - see it being imbued with the love and light you send.

Maybe you want to give a certain color or form or shape. Usually I just send what would look like a cloud or a rain that would soak the entities in love and in light, in healing, in unity. And then at some point, you see it, and you say, “It is done.” And it’s like a magical practice [inaudible] hands or snapping your fingers or saying, “may it be so,” or “so be it.” Then that does it - that fixes it there so it’s available to them.

Okay. And we have unlimited love and light that we can give. There’s no… there’s… It’s unlimited.

Right. Right. Yeah.

So I only wish, and I speak I know for many people, that I could thank you for the way you shepherded this information. It’s one thing to have all this information. It’s another on how to produce it to the world. And you’ve presented a website that’s freely accessible to anybody. You have… you’ve done your best not to create any distortions or cults or anything out of this. It’s pure. You can tell the intention is purely out of love. And that is why it has such credibility with me: is the intention behind it. You can feel the love behind it.

There is a genuine desire on your part to help this planet with this knowledge that you’ve had, and you’ve shared it in a positive way. And I want to thank you for teaching me. I’m still learning, I’m still a student. If there… Other than meditation, is there any other things that you can think of that I can do to help myself and this planet to move beyond that 51%, to help others? Can… I want to help as many people as possible, but I’m in a pandemic. I’m sitting in my house alone. So what can I do to help as many people as possible? What can I do?

Well, each morning, in my first meditation of the day, I make a visualization of Planet Earth. And I see our mother Gaia moving through space, spinning on her axis, with almost eight billion souls, moving towards the fourth density of love and understanding. And yet these eight billion souls are scattered throughout the spectrum of disappointment, of anger, of confusion, of hopelessness, of separation. So I ask the infinite love and light of The One Creator to move through my violet ray energy center, the crown chakra. But I can then send it out through my heart chakra to each of the eight billion souls on Planet Earth that it might set up an harmonic resonance with the love and light that is in them that they may not be aware of, because they are also The Creator, and The Creator’s love and light is in them.

So if this harmonic resonance can be set up and increase in vibration and frequency, then perhaps a light can come on within their being, and they can begin to see a reason for hope, a reason to continue doing the will of The Creator, to discover the pre-incarnative choices they’ve made, that they can begin serving each other and finding The Creator in each other.


That is light resonance that could become brighter and brighter, and the planet itself become brightly shining almost as if a star. And then the Mother Earth can be moving more and more firmly and fast into the fourth density of love and understanding. So that this is a social memory complex now, and not just separate individuals in various states of disarray, but a social memory complex seeking unity, seeking service to others. And then I end it be, “May it be so.” So that’s my own personal visualization. I think anybody can make up their own or use that one.

That can have an effect. I believe it can.

I absolutely love that. Thank you. Some other nerdy questions that come up when we talk about The Law of One… This I… Beyond the Logos, we know that the sun is… Also all of the planets are sub-logi of the Logos, right?


So each of the planets are a living conscious entity - which is hard for me to grasp. The earth is a body for a living conscious entity - Mother Gaia, as you said.

How… What do you think that their role is? They’re all creating their own forms of life into… for The Creator to better understand Itself? With different densities and different paths? What is… For what… How do you interpret that portion of The Law of One: the sub-logi being the planets and how the planets interact with us?

Well, many of them do exactly what you say - what the earth is doing. They have various sub-sub-Logoi - such as we are as individual human beings that can make free-will choices, interact with each other in the evolutionary process in a unique way. And every choice they ever make in any incarnation becomes more ways for The Creator to know Itself. So they’re all contributing to The Creator knowing Itself.

But they’re also contributing to their own spiritual path and the spiritual path of those around them by how they interact, how they use their catalyst, how they use the… maybe the difficulties that come up between two people, how they resolve them with clear communication and unconditional love. All of these entities on all the planets throughout the universes can do this and do this.

Now some planets do not get into this stage of going through the evolutionary process. They look like a planet to the physical naked eye, but they are as what Ra said, “still a portion of the intelligent infinity.” And they are in, what you might say, a unified state at all times. They don’t make a progression through the various densities. So not all planets do what we’re talking about here then - what the Earth has done and Mars attempted to do and Venus did and Saturn…

And then they say the Uranus on the outside edges of our solar system has the capability of going through all of the cycles, right?

Is at the beginning. Yeah.

So they’re all adding in a unique way to the desire of The Creator to know Itself; because as this cycle of densities - one through seven, and then into the eighth density of unity - continues, there is a fruit or a harvest that all of us bring with all of our choices, all of our free-will choices. It’s like a bounty of festival to The Creator. It is combined at the end of the cycle so that there is what we see as a black hole.

Everything is absorbed into it. But on the other side of that black hole is the beginning of a white dwarf star. That is a beginning again of what has just finished for that particular octave of densities, so that we are in an infinite creation. All of this experience we’re having in this octave has been going on infinitely before us, it would seem. And will go infinitely beyond us. And to bog your mind even more, it’s all happening in the eternal present.

In the right now. In this moment.

Right now. Here in third density, we have a past, a present, and a future.


But outside of that, there is the eternal present, where everything is happening at once. And all of this… That… It’s what the mind, you know, fails to understand.

And actually, that’s the way I would prefer it. If the creation could be understand by my mind is too small.


I like the idea of something that I cannot intellectually understand.


It has to go on beyond any understanding to happen in a fashion that says, “How could that happen? How could that be?”

Carla always said that where you find paradox like that, there you have the chance for real spiritual understanding or grasping a larger principle.


And all of this is happening all at once.

Now, do you think that when we move to a social memory complex, first of all, is it a fusion? Is it… Is the social memory complex a combination of individuals? Or is it… Does it become one, individual consciousness? It’s implied that Ra has different entities that go out and become wanderers and different things.


But it’s still a social memory complex.


So, is there a fusion that occurs?

There is a fusion of experience. If you’re familiar with Carl Jung’s collective unconscious…


…Well, at some point, it becomes conscious.

It becomes conscious.

Ra says that the Akashic Record, which is a record of every entity’s every incarnation and every experience, that is the beginning of our social memory complex right there.

Okay. That makes more sense.

And what will occur hopefully, and Ra said is possible, in one fine, strong moment of inspiration for this planet to choose to be positively oriented. So, if that should happen, all the entities on the planet, then, would mentally be aware of every other entities’ experience - a huge library of information available for how that one social memory complex or however many billions or millions of souls, however decides to be of service and call upon that entire memory library…

It’s amazing!

…As a means by which to conduct their service. And by doing it, they find more information. They’re constantly adding to that.

Yeah! Do you think the social memory complex becomes a planet at some point? Do you think it becomes an actual physical presence that’s like a planet? Or… Or is it not? Have you…

A social memory complex… Like I said, the fourth density graduates of Earth will have this social memory complex mentality, but they’ll be on the Earth.

Okay, on the Earth.

So Ra was on Venus up until the sixth density. So they stayed there fourth, fifth, and sixth. And then, they left Venus to be of service. And so they are now on the sun, where any fourth through sixth density entity can go and be a portion of that experience on the sun body.

Oh wow!

As you may be familiar with the more advanced concept, they said that sixth-density love… The fusion of two entities or more in sixth density love produces what we see as the rays of sun that come to Planet Earth. So I believe that is why they were worshipped as the god of the sun.


Because they’re not the only ones on the sun, though by the way.


There are many, many more on the sun that can go there and produce the light that we see - the light gives life to this planet.

Wow. It’s stuff like this that’s so much fun to sit and think about. And I am so grateful that you’ve spent this much time with me and answering these questions. And I only hope maybe someday in the future, we have some more questions that we could ask you. But I recommend that everybody go to [or L/L Research’s website,]. And you can see a full transcript of The Law of One sessions and to support L/L Research, which is a fantastic organization that has done a great job of shepherding this information.

And I am just honored that I got a chance to meet you and talk with you. And thank you for giving your time in such a wonderful way. And thank you so much. I’ll say it again. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! So I appreciate it.

Well, it has been my great honor to be here to talk about The Law of One. And I thank you for the invitation. And I thank everybody that’s been listening. And go out and share your love and light with everybody around you. Let’s help to bring each other home.

Sounds good. We’ll stop it right there. Welcome to The Reality Revolution. Thank you so much.

  1. Ra highlighted other even more fundamental preconditions, including the harmony of the group and the purity of the instrument’s dedication to service. Moreover, #71.21 indicates that there was a very fine-tuned compatibility between this particular group and those of Ra that enabled the connection:

    “Consider the process of one who sees the spectrograph of some complex of elements. It is a complex paint sample, let us say for ease of description. We of Ra knew the needed elements for communication which had any chance of enduring. We compared our color chip to many individuals and groups over a long span of your time. Your spectrograph matches our sample.” 

  2. The interviewer’s own inference. Ra mentioned nothing about group sexual energy transfers, or any sort of arrangement with more than one partner. Which is not to say that such did not transpire, just that Ra offered zero indication of such. 

  3. Confederation sources have never established that the mystics of all ages have self-harvested. It is certainly possible for one who has, as Ra describes it, “penetrated the eighth level.” (See 11.8.) This would likely be what we on Earth call enlightenment. In 34.2, Ra indicates that such an entity will likely gain a strong “desire to communicate or use this experience to aid others.”