“They Call Us Channelers” will take viewers on a journey into the phenomenon known as “Channeling”. Our goal is to bring a new understanding and awareness to channeling by looking within ourselves and asking “Is it truly possible to use this so called innate ability?” And “How do I use it or when and what should I use it for?”'

[Intro] Have you ever wondered, can you communicate directly with spirit guides, teachers or nonphysical consciousness or even our higher selves? What would they tell us? My name is Kevin Moore, and since 2015 I started to practice a form of communication which is termed channeling. I have been interviewing experts on my talk show to find out, does life continue after we die? And can we communicate with those that have crossed over? With each expert I spoke to, they all had different ideas. Is their knowledge from the past, which could be shared with the present moment? So I thought, “Why not just speak to the nonphysical world directly through channelers around the world?” And that’s what I set out to do. They Call Us Channelers will take the viewers on a journey into the phenomena known as channeling. And my main goal with this docuseries is to bring a new understanding and awareness to channeling by looking within ourselves and asking, “Is it truly possible that we can all use this innate ability?”

[Giving Kevin a tour of his home and the L/L Research office.] Kevin! Welcome to L/L Research! Come right in. Good to have you here. We’ve come a long way to see us. We appreciate that. We’ve got a lot to show you. Hope you have a good time looking around here. You know this is our office. Gary over here is manning the computer. Austin’s off for the day, but he’ll be here tomorrow. And this is where so much of the work is done for L/L Research. These guys are amazing. They keep the ship afloat, even moving forward and spreading the world…worldwide news of love and light all around the world.

And in here is where we have our meditation meetings. We’ve got plenty of comfortable chairs around for people to sit in. We’ll usually have about 10 or 12 for our channelings—tomorrow evening as a matter of a fact. So I hope you can just enjoy walking around the house, taking a look at everything.

This is our first section on channeling. The top two thirds down the bottom is “The Harvest.” L/L Research all together has about 5,000 books. Carla and Don collected them over about 20 or 30 years. And then after Don died, we kept getting more books from people who would leave us books in their will, and leave us their collection. So Gary’s wife, Trish, started cataloging them about three years ago. And she got half of them done and then she got another job. And then she taught me how to do the other half. So I did half and she did half.

We’ve got more books in here. Sorry, I’ve got better light, but our power’s out here. So we’re reworking the house. You’ve got… Oh, I think all together Carla said we’d had probably about a hundred different categories of books. And this area’s on healing and diseases, work in consciousness, magical places, imagery, and Christian study up at the top.

Then, in here, we’ve got more new age and paranormal types of things, some paranormal studies and regressive hypnosis, crystals and pendulums, divination, science, white magic. And got some pictures here of Don and Carla and I during the Ra contact. That’s one of only two pictures that was taken of us as a group.

And there’s Carla and me at our wedding. And this one here is Carla on our 25th wedding anniversary. She had had back surgery by that point and got around pretty much in a wheelchair. But at that particular point, she’s feeling very praise worthy—giving praise and thanksgiving.

Oh, wait. We can’t forget this. We still have more downstairs here. As you come in the door, meditation, incarnation, prayer, mysticism, feminine thought, sexuality, angels. Over on this wall, we’ve got psychology and philosophy and theosophy, archeology, religion, Middle Eastern thought, Hinduism, Native Americans, and Far Eastern thought. That’s pretty good coverage of the various thoughts. And theosophy at the very top. Okay, now up the stairs.

And more books. This is all the various types of literature. And this is Dan D. Lion, our grey tabby with no tail. We’ve got books on fantasy, Edgar Cayce, UFOs, UFO contact. Over here, nature, gardening, survival. Over here geography and history.

And then this is Carla’s office. She wrote “Living The Law of One 101” in here. We have a nice view of the outdoors. She could see the trees and light in summer and spring. That was her chair—she did her writing in the chair. And right now we use it for our weekly or bi weekly podcast. Gary comes up here, and Austin stays in the office downstairs, and I’m in my room. And we talk about various questions that people send us. And just trade back and forth ideas. It’s really a lot of fun, because we have pretty much agreement on points. But then you know we have a certain way we take an angle. And it kind of feeds like a yeast back and forth - we… we get to a place that we haven’t met before.

And let’s see. There’s one more room that has books in it. This is Carla’s former bedroom. The uh… Her mother got her interested in romance and mystery. So all of the books in here a romance and mystery.

[Interview begins.]

I’m Jim McCarty. I was the scribe for the Ra contact which produced The Law of One. And now I also channel for L/L Research, and we channel entities by the name of Q’uo.

There was no channeling in my childhood or no inclination towards spiritual leanings, no real religious experiences. I went to church; it didn’t really seem to make any sense, but I went because everybody else did. But I have always had a memory from the time of being a child. And I guess it must be a memory from when I was being born into this world. And I must have been a little concerned because the memory I have is, “It’s okay. You won’t get lost. You can come back.” I’ve never really mentioned it anybody else. There might be two or three people that have heard that. But it’s something that has stuck with me all this time. And I think that was supposed to happen, that I was given this type of an insurance that all is well, go forward, do what you came to do, good luck, see you later.

And just going back to the family as well in childhood, there was no one else in the family with any other gifts?

No. I was an only child. My mom and dad were very poor, raised during the Great Depression. And so they decided to have one child and to give him everything that they never had. So I was very spoiled, very loved, very supported. Even though they didn’t know anything about what I was doing or why, they gave me their total support.

Now prior to coming into contact with Carla and Don, had you…or what experience had you had with channeling? Did you even know what the term meant?

I didn’t know what it meant. Back in 1972, I came in contact with the Seth material, where Jane Roberts was channeling Seth. And I was very interested in that. I thought that was very good material. So I looked into that. Now, I read just about everything that she channeled. Adventures in Consciousness was my favorite of her books. So when I met Don and Carla, I was well aware of channeling. I was also on a mailing list of a group of folks in Washington State who were channeling supposedly the same source Edgar Cayce channeled, which would be the Akashic Record of the planet. So for about five years, I took their weekly mailings, and was very interested in what they had to say.

What was the interest, do you think? Well, I mean, was it still even back then, was it looked upon as kind of on the fringe of spirituality?

Well, back then, I think it was even more on the fringe of spirituality because it wasn’t so popular. There weren’t so many people channeling. It was more unusual. For me it…it told me things about myself in general, as a person, a human being on planet Earth, that my purpose here was to love and to open my heart to love. And that just rang true for me. So that’s when I first became interested in channeling. It opened my eyes and opened my heart.

Was there any other…anything else apart from channeling? Any other forms of any psychic sort of investigations that you did? Anything else? Was it channeling that was your main thing?

Well, before I moved to Central Kentucky in 1974, I had attended to what was called the Adventure Trail Survival School, which was right outside of Blackhawk, Colorado, in the Rocky Mountains, west of Denver. And this was a process of self therapy that was learned in the primal nature environment. But it also had a spiritual aspect to it. They said if we could use the process of dreams, of essaying, writing about our dreams, we could learn that there are certain blockages that we can remove from our consciousness, our brain actually, that would allow the brain to naturally circuit forward the consciousness into the frontal lobes, which is a part of the brain that usually isn’t used by people.

So that was probably my first time of being interested in the spiritual aspect of my life. That was the time of the hippie revolution. I was a proud member of the hippie revolution. And when I attended the survival school in Colorado, it gave me some tools to use that were very successful for me, that I began to help other people with when I moved to Kentucky and started my own school there, which I named The Rock Creek Survival School.

So move us forward then. What happened? How did you get in contact with Carla and Don? What occurred there?

Well when I moved to Kentucky, I moved to the woods of Central Kentucky, built a log cabin, and lived off the grid for six and one-half years. So I had a battery powered transistor radio. And on the night of May 30th, 1979, I was listening to that radio. And I was tuned into WKQQ radio station in Lexington, Kentucky. And it just so happened, they were doing a special program on UFOs. So I tuned in, and they were investigating and interviewing Don Elkins and Carla Rueckert. And that’s when I first heard about them.

And they talked about the philosophy of the UFOs—not what the craft looked like or what the occupants looked like. But their philosophy that the One Infinite Creator had made us all—that we’re all part of a unity, and that we could all discover the Creator that existed within us through meditation. So that was very interesting to me. I decided to try to meet them. And it took about six or eight months. But I was able to find some folks on the other side of the same county that I lived in that belonged to the same food co-op I did. And at one of the meetings, we were just talking about spiritual matters, and I happened to mention the interview with Don and Carla. And they said, “Oh, we’re members of their meditation group.” So they introduced me, and I started attending every week on Sunday nights for the next year.

What was Carla channeling at that time of the radio broadcast?

At that time, she had just begun to learn how to channel. The experiment that Don set up in 1961 was when she first met Don. And everybody else in that group, all 12 of the guys, learned how to channel. Carla didn’t—she wasn’t interested. She liked the messages. She loved meditation. But when she got together with Don in 1968, they still had that group going, and there were plenty of channels.

But as the years went on, these were fellows who were part of Don’s Introduction to Physics class when he was a professor at the University of Louisville. And they eventually got married or got jobs and moved away, and there was nobody left but Don to channel, so he asked Carla, “Would you be willing to learn how to channel?” So that was 1974. So about the time that I heard them on the radio, she was just beginning to learn how to channel.

And she would have been in her late 20s, early, early 30s?

31 years old then.

31. Okay, so she was getting into it yet, at that age. And so Don and Carla were together.

Then, so there’s a a point where you were contacted them, and you met for the first time. What was that first meeting like?

Well, I remember walking into their apartment, and Don was there to greet me. And he was the same height that you are, which meant that I had to look up about a foot to see him. And I shook his hands, and I looked into his eyes. And I remember they were such a deep blue. I thought, “Those are just beautiful eyes. I could get lost in those eyes.” And that was a very unusual first thought to have meeting a person. So he was warm in his greeting.

I met Carla. And I was very impressed with the type of information that they were channeling—of how open they were of allowing people to ask questions. There wasn’t just sermonettes—you had a chance to ask questions, and I asked him questions that were important to me. So after that first meeting, it just felt like the place for me to be. So I came every week for the next year, every Sunday night.

What’s the backstory then between you guys getting together to bring Ra through? How did Ra first appear? And what initiated that to get to that point?

Well, after going to the meditations for a year, I helped them move from their apartment, which was close to downtown Louisville, to a nice, single story four-bedroom house on the outskirts of Louisville. And during that time, we got to know each other very well, and they invited me to join them. So that was the fall of 1980. And December 23rd, 1980, I moved in. And it was three weeks later that the Ra contact started. But I missed the first Ra contact because I was out shopping for groceries. And Don and Carla were teaching a Sunday night meditation member how to channel. And instead of the normal contact coming through from either Hatonn or Laitos, Carla went into a trance.

And how she went into trance we never knew—we never knew how she left her body. But during that first session is when Ra first began to speak. And I had the honor of walking through the door interrupting the first session with Ra because I had my arms full of groceries—two sacks, one in each arm. And if you look on the first session there, it’s when Don’s asking about planetary changes, Ra says, “We must pause and deepen this instrument’s state.” That’s because I walked in the door and interrupted the first Ra contact.

Did Carla have any inkling of the energy of Ra? Had Ra made himself known to Carla before in this lifetime?

Not at all. We had no idea this was even possible. We had hoped through our association together to continue doing what they were doing, which was Sunday night meditations, investigating UFOs and paranormal phenomena, and trying to present information that would be helpful to people’s growth. We were absolutely floored, astounded, and thrilled to have this contact. It was Don’s fondest dream. I personally could not have even dreamed of such a thing happening

Between any of you, was there any doubt of what was coming through?

Oh, well, no, not really. Like I said, I missed the first contact. And when the session was over, Don gave me the cassette tape. He said, “Could you transcribe this as soon as possible?” And I said, “Right away?” He said, “Yeah, this is really good information.” I said, “Are you sure?” Because he wasn’t usually a person who was ebullient or happy or smiling, but he was all about those things after this contact. And so when I started transcribing the session, I discovered why. Because for us, it just seemed to make all the sense in the world. It was like a message from home.

Going forward on that point then, knowing that there was a special connection here, when was it decided to start transcribing the chapters for what would be The Ra Material? When was that decision made that there was a book that was going to, you know, come forth? Or was it the case that, you know, you just kept bringing the information through, and you found better ways of doing that? And if I’m skipping anything, just back up.

The decision was made right away. It was pretty obvious that this was material that could and should be shared with others. So right away, Don started thinking about how to frame the questions, how to organize the questions in a way that would make sense. Although it was hard for him not to get into these various areas of the paranormal investigations he’d been at for 25 years. So there is a lot of jumping around in the first book. But the whole idea of the first book was that it would hopefully be published.

Let’s just, you know, go over just very briefly Ra and who is Ra?

Well, Ra told us that they were a member of a planetary consciousness or group consciousness. That they had evolved on the planet that we called Venus. And that it took 75,000 years for them to make their graduation into what we would call the fourth density of love and understanding. They had a total population on the planet at that time of thirty-eight million people, but only six and one-half million were able to make the graduation. So apparently Ra is composed of six and one-half million souls, each of which share a group mind or group consciousness—which would be like if any of us could be aware of every thought, of every incarnation, of every entity on planet Earth, then we would know what it is like to be a part of a social memory complex or a group consciousness.

Okay, and when Ra was coming through, let’s just get to the point of what was Ra’s main, most important message as well for the material?

Well, the main message was that we each have the means by which we can enhance our own evolution by discovering the power of love within our own hearts. That we are living in an illusion that has the purpose of teaching us how to do that—that this isn’t the way things really are. We’re not really separate as entities that have been created by the One Creator. We are all indeed one. The law is one. And we are here to discover more of that law and a specific facet of that law called the Law of Love.

Now, when this information was coming through, everything was recorded?

Oh, yes. We had three tape recorders going because Carla had a bad effect on tape recorders. If she ever touched them, they were likely not to work for a while.

And all of that material is available now as well?

Right, right. It’s all been published. And there are five books of The Law of One right now.

When that was coming through, how was this shifting yourself, Don, and Carla? Were you living the teachings kind of from day one when they were coming through?

We were studying the teachings very carefully. After each session was transcribed…Don was pacing outside of the office where I was transcribing the sessions, waiting for the next page to come out of the typewriter. So he was reading it right away. And I was reading it right away and studying it too. But, being the scientist, Don didn’t allow Carla to read it until the twenty-first session. He finally acceded to her request because we were mercilessly teasing her with some of the terminology, like, “Is your mind body spirit complex distorted towards hunger/fullness?” And after a while, she said, “Now look, you’ve got to ask Ra if I can read the material.”

So Don was afraid that if she knew what the material was, that would affect future transmissions, being the scientist. So he asked Ra if it would be okay. And Ra said, “It’s perfectly fine. We don’t use this instrument’s mind. We use our words and. we don’t have any problem with her reading the material.” So after that point, Carla got to read the material and study it as well.

So one of the first things that she and I would do after a session, we would take a walk so she could get her exercise. She had to stay in good shape to be a channel for the Ra contact. So we would talk about the session. So we would talk about it after the session, before a session. The night before, we would all get together and talk about the material we’d just gotten. Talk about the next questions coming up. So we were studying it right along. We were trying to absorb it.

It was material the like of which we’ve never seen before. The types of concepts that were used, the types of verbs and nouns and words were…they seemed to be chosen for the perfection of the moment—like a mathematical equation. So it took some untangling of some of the information. And we were happy to do that because once you started doing that, we discovered that it unfolded like a flower for you.

Now just going back to Carla as well. Now her background…what was Carla’s religion?

Episcopal. She was a cradle Episcopalian, and she met Jesus when she was two years old in her magic garden.

So how did these teachings…did this work affect her religious side as well?

It supported what she had felt all her life. She was a Christian Mystic. The Episcopal Church itself, the Church of England, has been very supportive of what you might see the eccentrics in their particular distortion of Christianity, as Ra would say. And so eccentric individuals have always been welcome there. And Carla didn’t have any problem sharing this information with any priest that she had at that time, or the bishop. She always made sure that the bishop and the priest were accepting of the information - that they were not bothered by it or cautionary in any way. So her first bishop, Bishop Marmion, said, “You are working with people who are not members of the Church. The people who read this material are not in any church very likely. So you are Christ to them. So you must do your best to share this with them in as clear a way as possible.” And that was very encouraging to Carla.

Now when Carla brought the information through, she was what was called a trance channeler? So what was the benefits of the trance channeling for Carla and the information?

Well, unlike most trance channels, Carla was not in her body, and neither was Ra in her body. She would leave her body by a means which we never understood. She was never trained for it, never thought about doing it. It just seemed to be a gift. So since she wasn’t in her body, and Ra was not in her body, then Ra was using her body from where they were, which was apparently the inner planes of Planet Earth. And this allowed them to use the vocal cords, the lips, and so forth, to make the responses to Don’s questions. But they were not good at using the body for any other purpose. If Carla had a pain flare due to arthritis, she wasn’t aware of it, but it could cause a problem with the transmission in that it would cause a momentarily…a flare, a distortion. So Ra would have to take a minute or two to reposition whatever arm or wrist that was experiencing the pain flare so that it would go away and not cause a problem with the transmission.

Absolutely. And with Don: What did his colleagues think of the material coming through at the time, his scientific colleagues?

At that time, there were a few folks he was talking to, and they were of a scientific nature. Dr. Puharich was one. Most of them are very open to what Don had to say because he’s always had been, even though he was into paranormal research, which many thought was kind of unusual and a little strange. Don himself was also very credible. He was a natural teacher. And he had a way of presenting information that, as he said, he would maintain the baby step—he would take a person where they were in their understanding and just give enough information to move them forward a small amount and support that movement by other information. Not try to go too fast and overwhelm them with too much information.

What was Don’s interest in all this? Why was someone in his kind of establishment and an airline pilot as well…why would he be interested in channeled material for himself? Was it the same reasons as he was interested in the material?

Well, when he was 17 years old and a junior in high school, he was taking flying lessons from Captain Tom Mantell, who was a member also the Kentucky Air National Guard besides having his own flying school. Captain Mantell was involved in one of the first famous UFO cases in the United States on January 7th, 1948. He and two wing men were actually trying to get close enough to a UFO to see what it was like. This UFO had been spotted around the area of Mayfield, Kentucky, and the Kentucky Air National Guard had been called by the Kentucky Highway Patrol to see if they could figure out what this thing was. So what eventually happened or the outgrowth of it was that Captain Mantell crashed. His plane, while trying to catch the UFO, he went through the oxygen ceiling, his brain suffered hypoxia, and he passed out. So his death caused the possibility of UFOs being real to be considered as a possibility in the United States, because at that time UFOs were mostly ignored or laughed at by the general public or the government. But also, Dons’ curiosity in UFOs was also piqued by the fact that his friend and instructor was killed. Captain Mantell was only twenty-five years old. And Don was seventeen. So they were friends as well.

So this experience caused him to start asking the big questions in life: What’s life all about? How big is the universe? How’s it work? Who made it? So all he could do at that age was to take the hard sciences—biology, chemistry, physics, and so forth—in high school later in college. So he got a master’s degree, eventually, in mechanical engineering. But this whole time of taking all these classes told him that he wasn’t going to find the answers to the big questions in life in science. So he started looking in paranormal phenomena. He began with regressive hypnosis to just prove to himself that reincarnation was the way that we really progress spiritually. And he went on from there to other areas.

Yes, because he produced some really defining UFO books as well, I believe, on the phenomena. And what was that? Was some of his books on that phenomenon? Was that The Ra Material? Or was that actually books that he had channeled through Carla, through some other entities or?

Well, the first book that Don and Carla produced in regards to UFOs was Secrets of the UFO. Came out in 1976. And that was pretty much a documentation of his twenty-five years of investigation in the UFO phenomena. So later on, they produced a manuscript from Carla’s being taught how to channel in 1974, which we’ve just published in the last couple of years. They never got it published themselves.

Right. Okay. So with The Ra Material then, it could only happen with all three of you present. Is that right?

Right. Yes, The Ra Material did come through with three of us present. Three was the minimum number Ra said that was necessary for a contact to be made. This was in order to provide a certain kind of protection psychically for the one serving as an instrument. There could have been more people. We did have three other folks that came to a session—one person each session—but none of them was available for being a part of the group on a long term basis. So the sessions were basically Don, Carla, and myself.

And how long did Ra stay there for? Was it for as long as you guys were together channeling? Or was it for a set amount of time that Ra had a connection with you guys?

Well, the actual contact with Ra lasted for three years and three months. It began on January 15th, 1981. It was completed on March 15, 1984, when we had the last session, number 106. After that, Don had a lot of difficulties with his physical body and with mentally becoming able to continue his work. The Ra contact attracted the attention of negatively oriented entities who did their very best to end the contact. The principle behind this is that when there is positive information offered on Planet Earth, there must be equal opportunity for negatively oriented information. The negative entities can either attempt to make their information available to you if you’re willing to change your tuning, change your polarity. Or if you won’t do that, then they attempt to put out the light.

So at the end of the Ra contact, for the last year, 1983, there were very many difficulties that both Carla and Don experienced—Carla on the physical sense, because she had arthritis which could be accentuated and intensified by the negative entities. Don was having problems mentally thinking about is Eastern Air Lines going to survive? He flew for Eastern, and it was having problems. Could he continue to support our work? Was Carla going to be okay, because there were other problems that came with the Ra contact that were a very big threat to her well-being. So eventually, Don died on November 7th, 1984. And that brought the Ra contact to an end.

Because it had to be all three of you.

It had to be three of us.

And no one else has been able to replicate Ra coming through in that same principle.

As far as we can tell, that’s true. There have been a number of people who say that they do have contact with Ra. And you just have to read the material for yourself to make your own decision. It’s been our thought that…we’d love to see that material channel again. We’d love to see somebody else make that contact. But as far as we know, it hasn’t been done yet.

Is it a continuous evolutionary process with the material where, you know, you could pick up a book, one of the books, you know, open up a particular paragraph, and it’ll be just what you need to hear just then?

It does seem to work that way. You can I Ching it. We used to do that. Carla and I would just see what the day held for us and then to try that. Yeah.

So let’s just move the story forward, then we’re going to go a bit back. So moving forward then, L/L Research was already formed. And the work was then to transcribe the material into books.


So how many years did it take to get all the material into the books that they are now, into the book form?

The first book was a product of a suggestion by Jane Roberts. When I lived in the country, I had started communicating with her telling her how much I appreciated her work. So when I joined Don and Carla, and the Ra contact started, we had about ten sessions gathered. And I sent those off to Jane Roberts, and I asked her if she had any idea as to a possible publisher for the material. And she sent back the first publisher—which actually did publish it—which was the The Donning Company, which was located in Virginia Beach at that time. So the first book was published in 1983, I believe. Don’t hold me to that. It was somewhere around there. And the other books were successfully published afterwards, after The Donning Company sold the rights to The Ra Material to The Schiffer Publications in Atglen, Pennsylvania. So they published those books, I believe, in 1992 was the first…two, three, and four. And then 1998 was book five.

So you knew Jane Roberts?

Well, I didn’t know her. I was corresponding with her. She was very kind. She had the same basic philosophy that Carla did, and that is no letter that ever came to her would go unanswered. If people cared enough to write to her, she would write back

Do you still have those letters?

I’m afraid I don’t. I wish I did.

That’s incredible that you were communicating with her. I did not know that. That’s… that’s amazing. And so you had a blessing, in a sense?

Yes, she was impressed with the material. She thought that it had a future on the mass market.

That’s beautiful. So in 1998, the final book, did you ever believe it would take that long to get all of the material out?

Well, we didn’t really think the book in 1998 was going to be published because what that book is, is the personal material that was removed from the first four books. Don and Carla and I would each occasionally ask a personal question about ourselves, our own journey. And we took that material out of the first four books because we thought that it would be too easy for readers to focus on us as personalities, and not to look at the really heart of the material, and the fact that we were just like everybody else. As Carla said, we were all bozos on this bus. But Carla and I changed our minds in 1998. We thought, as we were looking through the personal material ourselves, that there was a lot of really good material there that seekers of truth could use in their own journeys. And by that point, we felt that people were sophisticated enough to put personality aside—don’t worry about the personality, look at the material. So we decided to publish it. But since it was fragments taken from all of the 106 sessions, we wrote a little commentary to try to tie it together to give people an idea of what was being discussed. So that was book five of The Law of One.

But who’s got the rights to the book now, then?

Schiffer Publications in Atglen, Pennsylvania.

Right, okay. Okay. And is the newer material even now that’s coming out, is there any other material that’s still left to be released, do you feel?

No. All the material that can be published has been published.

Your relationship with Carla, when did that start?

Our relationship started when I was helping her and Don move to the place where we eventually had the Ra contact together. Since Don was a pilot flying for Eastern, he was gone a lot. So a lot of the moving was Carla and me. And there was one particular hug that we shared in the kitchen at the Watterson Trail house where we had the Ra contact, that neither of us wanted to see it end. And we knew at that point that there was some real love between us. And that was really good news for everybody, including Don because Don was a monk. Don was celibate. He didn’t really like participating in the normal, earthly mated relationships. So his relationship with Carla was one of a very high level, where mentally and emotionally they were one. But he didn’t have any ability or desire to partake in a real mated relationship. So that’s where Carla and I fulfilled that role for both of us. And it was from that point on that we were lovers and mates. And after Don’s death in 1984, we were married on May 30th 1987. And we’re married for twenty-eight years and together for thirty-four.

Okay, with The Ra Material then, are there some aspects of the material that really surprise you sometimes, even now?

Oh, yeah. That was one thing that really impressed both Carla and me that…we would include The Ra Material every day in our readings. We would do a morning offering—she started that when she was twelve years old—readings from the Bible, hymn, prayer, meditation, and then we included The Law of One. And we read through it a number of times. But each time we would go through it, we would discover there were some portions that seemed to reveal themselves—open up to us—in ways in which we had never been able to feel or notice before. And I noticed that now, to this day. I’ve read the materials…well, since Carla’s passing two and a half years ago, I’ve probably read it fifteen, twenty times. I don’t know. I haven’t counted. And it still happens for me. There are portions of that material that you can look at and discover layers of meaning. And I think that’s why it’s becoming more and more popular with people, because seekers of truth today are more sophisticated. They’ve read a lot of material. And they seem to be able to tune in or zone into material that has a real zing for them - that has this layers of meaning. So I think other people are discovering that too.

Yeah, because it’s quite high level information, some of it?

Well, that’s what we feel. I think the information is of a high level or pertinent to people as it reaches their heart. And there’s lots of different information around that can do that for people. And hopefully ours is a part of that.

And just moving on with Carla as well, and yourself. So, Carla’s health started to deteriorate at what sort of stage in your relationship?

Actually it started deteriorating when she was two years old. She had rheumatic fever, which the doctor said had injured every organ in her body, and she would die by the age of five. When she was thirteen, she had kidney failure, and she had a near death experience. So throughout her life, she had rheumatoid arthritis and lupus erythematosus. And these combined diseases wrecked her body greatly.

She apparently had chosen these diseases preincarnatively because they would cause her to have to focus inwardly and not be outwardly active in the world. Inwardly in contemplation, in prayer, in meditation, and in channeling—to do exactly what she did. But if she tried to exceed her boundaries and her limits, which she did all the time because she was a Tigger in Winnie the Pooh…Tigger wants to do everything. Carla wanted to do everything. It took her a while to learn that there’s going to be a painful result if she tried to do everything, that she needed to heed the reason she’d chosen those lessons.

So her body continued to deteriorate as she got older and older. And in the last years of her life, she underwent two surgeries, on both the upper back and the lower back, to try to regain function of her use of her arms—with the upper back surgery, so she could use a computer again. And the lower back surgery was for increasing the mobility of her legs. The thoracic surgery—the upper back—worked very well. And the lower back surgery was much more challenging. And that was what finally did her in. She was confined to a hospital bed for the last four years of her life. And eventually, infection overtook the wound and was the end of her incarnation.

So, just stepping back a bit here as well. When The Ra Material finished, but her channeling did not finish though.

Oh no. Neither Carla nor I felt that anything should stop as far as the programs of L/L Research, and the basic program had always been channeling. So we continued right on. That was the foundation stone of L/L Research. We continue with those and gave workshops and taught channeling, and she would make appearances around the country and speaking. And so yeah, everything continued as much as we could possibly do. Whenever we were invited to speak or to give a workshop, we were happy to do so.

And what was Carla bringing out of that? Was there a particular theme of an entity that was coming through? Was she a bit more of a multi-dimensional channeler at the time?

Well, over the years, she had been channeling probably three or four different entities from what was called The Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator. And this continued after Don’s death. She continued channeling, for a while Latwii, which was the contact that we had before the Ra contact started. But then after about two years, in 1986, we began channeling a source called Q’uo. And this source turned out to be not just one planetary consciousness, but three—a principle that involved three different planetary consciousnesses. Hatonn was the first contact made back in 1961 from the fourth density of love, which was one of the principles. And then Latwii, as I said, fifth density from before the Ra contact. And then Ra was also a portion of this Q’uo principal in a step-down fashion, so that it was not necessary to use trance.

But we also didn’t get the precision or the type of information stated in such a way as Ra did. Latwii was usually the one that was the spokesperson or spokesplanet for this the contact. And the information…it turned out to be very interesting as well. Many people feel it’s more helpful to them than the Ra contact and The Law of One information because it’s much easier to read but alludes to the same principles. It’s also usually more poetically stated, so it has a certain rhythm and rhyme to it that is unique to the Q’uo material. So we are still channeling Q’uo to this day.

Yes, because you’re channeling Q’uo

Right. Yes, I have a friend that has also helped me on the channeling Saturdays. And we share the channeling of Q’uo.

What is your main emphasis for L/L right now? What is your main goal for the… for the research?

Well it is to let Gary and Austin do everything they can to continue doing what they’ve been doing, which is keeping the ship afloat, and going forward with all kinds of programs that are actually beyond me, because I don’t understand everything that’s possible to do. Right now, they’re in the process of creating yet another book that we’ll add to the L/L library. There’s a lot more material that Carla had channeled over the years that needs to be looked at as possible books. I know that Gary and Austin have a lot up their sleeves, and you’ll have to ask Gary. I have been in the Emeritus role, as had Carla, for the last four or five years. And basically what I tell Austin and Gary is, “Yeah, whatever you’re doing, keep doing it because you’re doing great.”

Let’s just go back to The Ra Material itself then. Okay. So, the principle—we are all one; what we do to another, we do to ourselves.


What are some of the founding principles, then, apart from the Law of One of The Ra Material?

Well, the basic principles have to do with how the creation was made and how we are all here. Apparently at one point, before there was a creation, there was just unity—nothing but unity, nothing but what Ra called intelligent infinity. At some point, that intelligent infinity became aware and made a decision—a freewill decision to know itself. And the way it decided to know itself was to create what we call Love.

Or you can look in the sky and see the stars and the sun. These Logos entities or Love entities are also known as intelligent energy. So, when the Creator decided to know itself, it potentiated that intelligent infinity and created this Love that we see as stars and suns in the sky. And each of those stars and suns has created either a solar system or a galaxy with an infinite number of entities that give the Creator an infinite number of ways to know itself by every freewill choice that we ever make.

So our path back to unity with the One Creator goes through a succession of densities—eight densities just like “do, re, mi, fa, so, la, ti,” and then “do” one octave higher at the end. Where the spiritual mass of all these choices we’ve made in our spiritual journeys to know the Creator, to know ourself, and to help The Creator to know Itself coalesce, and once again become this infinity—this intelligent infinity—which then begins again another octave on the other side. So this is an infinite process, both before this creation we now exist in and after this creation. It is infinite in both directions. So as Ra says, “It all begins and ends in mystery.”

How many times has this universe or this reality been birthed and breathed in and breathed out again?

Well, that’s what Ra says: it’s infinite. There is no counting. As far as they know, it is infinite in both directions of experiences that have come before us and experiences that will come after us.

What about the multi-dimensional aspect to this reality as well? Did he did he talk about the parallel universe?

True. Apparently, there are parallel universes where as a soul, before we incarnate in any particular density or planet, that we have the choice, if we wish to, to incarnate on more than one. Ra suggested, however, that it’s usually the newer soul that attempts to do parallel existences so they can gain more experience more quickly. The older souls who already have this experiences aren’t so likely to use the parallel experiences. But Ra also said that each density—like, we’re in third density here—has sub-densities within it. And each sub-density has other sub-densities. So that anything that you can think will take place in one of these sub-densities as a reality, there.

So maybe when we’re picking up on deja vu…are we picking up from something on one of those other realities, maybe? Or…

That’s possible. It could be in another reality. It could be another incarnation. Believe it or not, it could be a future incarnation.

Yes, of course, of course. And what’s the sort of seismic information that came through on The Ra Material that really blew your mind as well apart from what we’ve discussed?

Well, most of the material blew my mind. And I think that each of the three of us had that feeling because it was such a step up in the breadth and scope, the depth, the profundity of the concepts described, that it just made us feel what was being said—not just think about what was being said, but to feel it.

The fact that you could move through your energy centers, and begin to open each one in succession, and have an ascending experience of The One Creator with each movement upward. So that if we were able to open our hearts widely enough in this illusion, to have love be our response to any situation—any situation—at least 51% of the time, we could be graduated into the fourth density. And then to feel what it is like to open the heart, where you actually love everything and everyone. And it’s as easy as breathing. In fact, it’s exactly like breathing because you don’t do it by choice you do it because the other person is standing in front of you.

But then Ra would say that we are…everything is one. So therefore, he is us—we are Ra.

That’s true.

But if that is the case, is he…could he even be termed as a future aspect of us?

That’s possible as well. Ra, in the very first session, said that they did not see the difference between what we projected as our own personality and what we projected as somebody else’s personality. In fact, they use the term “other-self” so that you are my other-self, I am your other self, everyone on earth is both of our other-selves. We are all one. We are truly one. So we are one with Ra. We are one with everyone and everything.

We just don’t see that right here, because if we saw that right here in this illusion, there’d be no reason for us to continue trying to learn what we’ve come to learn. We learn a lot from the fact that it seems like separation is the only available reality. Because of that, we have to struggle fairly hard on our spiritual path to be able to make sense out of how we can be one, how love can be the force that binds us all and creates everything there is. And by making that effort, as much of an effort as we can, we polarize our consciousness in the positive sense. And this allows us to move forward into the fourth density of love and understanding.

Do you think Ra was aware of other channels at the time, like the Seth material?

Oh, of course. Ra amazed us with what they were aware of. They were aware of people and their experiences throughout history, and who did what to whom and why. If we had asked too many of those types of questions…we got some questions like that, sort of as an aside to other information that we’re seeking. But if we tried to focus too much on the history of things, or the phenomenon of what Ra knew about other people, or transient information that didn’t make much sense ten thousand years from now, we would have lost the contact. That would be detuning the contact. We needed to stay focused on the evolution of mind, body, and spirit. But yes, Ra was aware of a great deal of things that you wouldn’t think they would.

So was Ra’s evolution in all this also our evolution? And was our evolution Ra’s evolution?

Well in the way of saying that they were a wayshower or a model, they are providing a way for us to look upon our own evolution. They described the process of evolution very clearly in the fourth book and the archetypical mind. The archetypical mind is kind of a blueprint of the nature of creation that the Creator first had as a result of everything that went before this octave, then became part of this archetypical mind that the Creator gave to each Logos entity, or Love entity. And they also added their own little influences and created the path or the nature of the creation that we go through.

So Ra is on that same path. All of the entities of The Confederation of Planets are traveling the same path that we’re on. They’ve gone just a little bit further. And they continue to proceed or advance in their own evolution by reaching a hand backwards, you might say, to help us along in our evolution by making contact and channeling through various entities. There is a call on planet earth that has been going out for hundreds and thousands of years for assistance, because we’ve had a problem on this planet figuring out how to open our hearts in love. So when this call goes out, it is answered by perhaps dreams, inspirations, mental or telepathic contacts with channels, or in our case, it was a trance contact.

And with the times that we live in now, is this where The Ra Material comes into his past as well?

Well, that’s my opinion. I think that in the times of great need is a time where this kind of material, and many other types of channeled material as well, are of most help, because people are crying out for help. The illusion of separation has never been stronger, as far as I can tell, on this planet. There’s so much division with people against people that whatever type of difference there is used as a reason to keep them from coming into your country.

Absolutely, absolutely. And do you feel as well that one of Ra’s messages was that we are not alone in this universe? And that by coming from the space that we are not alone, that is a spiritual evolution for us? As in we’re more spiritual evolved, the more that we create the reality that there is life out there?

The more that we can realize that, the more likely we are to be able to realize the spiritual principles that will help us all to love each other and to graduate into the fourth density. Ra suggested that one of the reasons that UFOs have been used over the years by The Confederation—to appear in the skies and disappear, and they have certain types of experiences—is that it presents the concept of mystery and the concept of infinity. And when can people begin to entertain those concepts in their minds and to think about them seriously, then they are on the spiritual path in a conscious way.

Yeah, so if we don’t embrace the…okay, well, then we’ll get back to what you just said. We’re almost at the end here. But let me just turn that around, then. Do you feel that we create our reality?

I do believe we create our reality in the way we respond to the catalysts that we see around us. Catalyst is what happens to you every day—the experiences you go through in your daily round of activities. Different people have different lessons to learn. So they can look at the same situation that you’re experiencing and have a totally different response to it. So we create our reality in conjunction or in parallel existence with the choices we made before this reality. We have certain lessons to learn. And we do create a reality by how we look at what happens to us.

So then, when we hear people say, “Well, there’s never going to be disclosure, not in our lifetime,” is that because we’re creating that reality that disclosure is never going to happen?

Some of the realities we attempt to create don’t last because there’s not enough, say, substance to them. We have some indications from friends of ours that have contacts that suggest there will be a disclosure and that this information is going to be made available. That there is simply a way trying…they’re trying to determine a way to do it that won’t upset people too much because back apparently in 1954, President Eisenhower met with those of The Confederation who offered him a chance to cooperate in a fashion that would help people to open their minds and open their hearts. But he politely declined the offer because he didn’t think that the mass mind or the public could accept the possibility of other entities and other philosophies. But perhaps now we’re more sophisticated. More people are aware that well, the general polls show that at least half the people believe that there are other planets with life on them. I’ve seen a number of articles in the paper recently saying, “Well, we discovered a certain planet that has the Goldilocks factor: everything’s just right for life as we know it to exist.”

Do you feel, though, that maybe we are shifting realities as we change our reality on a subject? So for example, disclosure will happen. Now I’m now saying in my reality, that’s going to be true. Do you think that consciousness shifts to different realities as we choose different versions of our reality? So if we were to stay in one reality where it’s not happening, it’s because in that reality, it’s not going to happen. But as you shift your truth, you somehow shift to other realities.

I believe that’s basically true. One of the reasons Ra could not give us an exact date about when the transition into the fourth density would occur is because our people are too volatile—what we believe changes too radically from day to day, year to year, so that it’s hard to predict what’s going to happen and where. So they gave us a general range between one hundred and seven hundred years for this shift to take place and to be completed.

One hundred to seven hundred.

And to add to that, we are already eighty-two years into it because they said the fourth is to actually began about five years before World War II. So we’re eighty-two years into it. However, there was a wildcard feature here. Ra also said, “Considering all these possibilities of what might or might not happen in your reality, according to your beliefs, there is still one, one jar in that container, one container in that store that contains love and harmony, peace and joy. Could your planet polarize in one fine, strong moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable, but it is ever possible.” 1

As L/L Research, where would you like to see this go? Would you like to continue the way it is? Or are you open to the progress of this research?

Well, it was Don’s dream that all of the information that was collected by L/L Research could be made available worldwide for free. Gary and Austin and the internet have made that possible. I would like to see that continue. I would like to see more people have the opportunity to become aware of The Law of One. Now, The Law of One isn’t the only way to progress here. There are lots of other ways—lots of other channels, lots of other information. And I would like to see everybody’s information that regards to the evolution to the Planet Earth in the fourth density be made available on a widest scale as possible. I would just like to tell everybody that everybody is the same as far as being able to contribute to the evolution of Planet Earth. It doesn’t really matter what you’re doing, it matters how you’re doing it. If you do it with love, then the love you create in the moment is just as valuable as anybody else’s love. It affects everybody planet-wide because we are all one. And because we are all one, we can all help to bring each other home. I believe that is why we are here today.

Thank you very much for this recording. Thank you.

My pleasure. Thank you very much for being here and asking the great questions.

  1. “We may note at this point while you ponder the possibility/probability vortices, that although you have many, many items which cause distress and thus offer seeking and service opportunities, there is always one container in that store of peace, love, light, and joy. This vortex may be very small, but to turn one’s back upon it is to forget the infinite possibilities of the present moment. Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible.” #65.12