Carla and Don were interviewed in 1977 for WKQQ's "UFO Awareness Week."

Stereo 98 WKQQ Lexington, and welcome to night two of WKQQ’s “UFO Awareness Week.” For the next two hours we have some things that we think you’re going to find very very interesting if you have even a semblance of what people call “an open mind.” All right, try to open your mind up and not think in the normal orthodox fashion, but think as somebody who has a lot of scientific information at hand might think and maybe you’ll learn a lot. At the very least, you’re going to be entertained tonight, and that starts in a minute.

… at WKQQ and we are kind of privileged to have with us today Don Elkins and Carla Rueckert and we’re going to talk a little bit about UFOs—do they exist, how do we know they exist, and hopefully those sort of preliminary questions will lead into a broader discussion of UFOs in general of all kinds of different contact with aliens. It could get into a pretty long-winded but I think interesting discussion.

Let me say this at the outset: regardless of how you feel about UFOs, whether they exist or not, whether you’re on the fence, please listen to the entire program before you make up your mind. I think it would be helpful if you would approach this thing with kind of a clean slate, especially in the beginning of this show, because some of the facts that we bring out will probably do a lot to affect your opinion.

Okay, Don, why don’t you begin by telling us a little bit about your background?

I started investigating UFOs around 1948. I was a student at the Elkins/Mantell Flying School in Louisville at Bowman Field. Capt. Mantell was the Air National Guard pilot that was killed while chasing a giant UFO that was seen over Fort Knox, Kentucky first. He was returning with a flight of three F-51’s from the south when that UFO was spotted. He was able to gain visual contact with it and the last they heard from him was that he stated that it was a very large, silver disk-shaped craft. The last words, in fact, were “It’s huge,” and at that point they lost radio contact and later they found the wreckage of the airplane.

It’s theorized that he ran out of oxygen since he didn’t have his mask on. In fact the airplane didn’t have oxygen aboard, and he chased the UFO through 20,000 feet. Above 20,000 feet you don’t live very long without oxygen. It’s theorized that he became so intent that he ran through it. I was a student at the school at that time this happened and I became interested at that time. Since that time I’ve spent a very large percentage of my time investigating UFO phenomena.

Okay, and Don’s assistant is Carla Rueckert and Carla, why don’t you go through your background for a second.

Okay, I was a student at The University of Louisville when Don Elkins, who is a physics professor there, started an experiment. He asked various people if they wanted to take part in it and I was one of them. It was a very interesting experiment. It was an experiment that was designed to duplicate certain conditions that—in another city and another group1—had generated UFO contactees and UFO contactee information. He wanted to see if he could duplicate this in Louisville, so I began the experiment with perhaps 100 other people, and in the next couple of years almost all of the original subjects had been able to receive something that you could say was from an alleged UFO source. You can never prove the source of a telepathic communication, but we were getting something, and whatever we were getting was matching up perfectly with other UFO type information from other groups that were like ours.

I went on to take degrees in Philosophy and Library Science, 2 and my continued interest in the UFO research is really due to the fact that, philosophically, the content of the UFO information is very satisfying to a philosopher.

You used the word “contactee” just then. Probably before we go any further we’ve got to define that term.

We use “contactee” pretty loosely. As I said, you can’t prove who a contactee has contacted. You cannot prove any type of telepathic source. People don’t know how to do it. They don’t know what physically takes place in telepathic communication, so they can’t prove it. But I use “contactee” simply to mean the recipient of certain information, that the subject is fairly certain he did not generate himself, therefore, he has been contacted by something/someone.

Now as I understand it, the contact may be in ways other than mental telepathy.

That is certainly correct. Our particular group got contact by mental telepathy but there are many other ways, aren’t there, Don?

We’ll hold that for a little bit later on because that really is not at the crux of what we want to talk about, but it is important. Don, let’s start off with a basic question. How do we know that UFOs exist?

There is absolutely no doubt about the existence of UFOs in the minds of those who have investigating them for any length of time at all. In 1968 a House Subcommittee met, the purpose of which was to receive numerous scientists from around the United States who would then convince them that the UFO phenomena was worth a very thorough investigation. The scientists included Dr. Leo Sprinkle, from the University of Wyoming; Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Northwestern University; Dr. James Harder, Berkeley; numerous, numerous people. These people are very serious, they’re well known in their fields. Their fields range from astronomy to engineering and psychology. There are approximately 200 full-time scientists who are consultants to various UFO investigating organizations in the United States alone. This doesn’t even consider the other countries which are all interested in a like manner.

Now, J. L. Hynek—who is the granddaddy, you might say, of Ufology, in that he was Chief Surveying Consultant to the Air Force from 1948 until 1968—estimates that there are 100 valid UFO sightings every 24 hour period around the world. There are well over 2,000 well documented face-to-face contact cases with UFO occupants—that is, the ship has landed and over 2,000 people have confronted the occupants face to face. Now, there is really no doubt at all in the minds of the people who have the information. Unfortunately, the general public doesn’t have this information—it’s available only to those interested researchers who know where to get it.

So it’s not covered up, is it?

It’s not covered up, it just isn’t disseminated. Now, the reason for the lack of dissemination goes back to the Robertson Panel, which suggested to the United States government in 1953 that the best way to handle the UFO phenomena was to downgrade it, in effect, ridicule it.

Now, because of the state of man with respect to the Russians at that time, it was considered that there was a definite threat, nuclear attack or invasion by the Russians, even though this threat was possibly not as great as the public thought it was; the public was jittery and a lot of people were building backyard bomb shelters and that sort of thing, and the last thing that the government or the Air Force wanted to do was to alarm people by saying there was something up there they didn’t know about and couldn’t control. So they established a policy of ridicule which, due to its momentum, is still in effect. The reason that you are not reading about the boy who was picked up outside of Louisville in January 1977, the reason you’re not reading about that around here is that the ridicule is still in effect and you had to get it on a news service wire from Tucson, Arizona.

If I can interrupt for a second it might be helpful to read this news release from a news service which caters to progressive radio stations and other people with an interest in this sort of off-beat and bizarre. Here we go: “Zodiac News Service, April 13, 1977: A Tucson-based UFO research group says its investigators have interviewed a 19-year-old Kentucky man under hypnosis who claims to have been taken aboard a space ship last January. According to the Arial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO), Lee Parish of Prospect, Kentucky seems to be telling the truth.”

Okay, this man reportedly recounted how he was taken aboard a large, glowing rectangular craft for about 35 minutes last January 27, then he told hypnotists and other investigators that his jeep was stopped along an isolated Kentucky road by this strange craft. After that he reports being “transformed to a room containing what the Kentucky man says were three machines which he believes were somehow alive,” and that is a quote. According to the man’s account the machines were each different in shape and color, but each had an arm or appendage which reached out and touched or examined him. Some of the touches were very painful.

He recalls that one of the machines appeared to be “the leader” (that’s two words in quotes). A second smaller red one appeared to be “scared.” The man was reported later released with no ill side effects except for very painful, bloodshot eyes and that seems to be kind of a recurring symptom since I’ve read quite a few of these. The UFO research group says that it has since located three other independent witnesses in the area of Prospect who claim to have seen a UFO on the night of the incident—a craft described by them as “twice as large as a house.” So that gives a background into the incident you just touched on.

Right, It’s interesting to note that the same day 12 hours later, near Cookeville, Tennessee, a man was taken on board and had quite a conversation with the occupants and it shook him up so much that he went over to Washington and was grilled by the CIA for two days. He, since then, has contacted NASA, and NASA’s Assistant Administrator for Special Projects called me on the phone two weeks ago and we had about a 45 minute conversation about both these instances. Then last week, about three miles from the area where the Kentucky youth was picked up, a UFO was photographed. A photographer whose specialty is night photographs was out making pictures at the time—

That’s infrared film?

No, it was regular film.

All right, I see.

And three CB radio operators started talking about this UFO and he saw the UFO and took a good picture of it, and Dr. Berg Monroe at the University of Louisville has the negative and has prints. He’s sending them to Ground Saucer Watch in Phoenix to have computer analysis done, computer enhancement of the images done. The UFO was bright enough so that it back-lighted the trees, and low enough so that you can see the relative size of the UFO with respect to the trees that it’s hovering over. All of this lends an air of credence to the initial contact that occurred January 27.

Now there was no doubt in my mind when I first interviewed the boy that he was telling the truth because, one, he had bloodshot eyes, very very bloodshot eyes when he came home, so we knew that he’d had a real contact—that’s normal, the bloodshot eyes.

What causes that?

I don’t know. We can only speculate that it has something to do with the radiation from the UFO.

Two, his jeep wouldn’t run the next day. He had to have most of the electrical parts replaced—points, condensers, spark plugs. I believe he had to replace the generator too. He had lost time, that is, he left his girlfriend’s house at 1:00 a.m. as soon as the television went off and got home at a quarter to two. It should have taken him seven minutes. He lost 38 minutes. Since he lost 38 minutes we assumed, because of our experience, that he’d been taken on board the craft and didn’t remember it. That’s normal. We used time regression hypnosis to take him back to the time of the contact, and under hypnosis he was able to tell us being taken on board the craft and what happened, what he saw, that’s what you just talked about.

I would like to say here there’s a question in a lot of people’s minds about hypnosis, that perhaps the person who is doing the hypnotism will put something in the mind of the person whom he is questioning—

Yeah, really.

—so that you ask questions and the hypnotic subject just gives you any answer to please you.

Well, there’s a stigma attached to hypnosis for sure.

But we simply discussed with Mr. Parish what he wanted to do, which was to find out what had happened to him. We regressed him in a good state back to the point where he started this experience, and then Don and Larry Allison, who did the hypnosis, simply allowed him to speak, and never asked him a single question, they just said “tell us what happened,” and for the next hour he simply talked to us about what happened. We never asked him a question so you couldn’t possibly have led him.

Now what has happened to the man since your contact with him, since the hypnosis?

He’s continuing on his normal duties. He’s an employee in a store.

Do these people with contact with UFOs, generally go on to lead happy and productive lives, or are they totally blown away by it?

Some change very little, some change an extreme amount. A good friend of mine who had a fantastic contact, he’s a medical doctor, has 56 patents in medical electronics, independently wealthy from his inventions, he’s a brilliant man, got one of the best UFO contacts to date. He got electronic communication from the UFO on his cassette tape recorder, of all things, message after message after message. And after this he devoted full time, his entire life to an attempt to disseminate what is going on to the people on planet Earth.

He’s written two books; the first one was published about three years ago, the name of it is Uri. The doctor’s name is Andrija Puharich, the name of the book is Uri, and it’s about Uri Geller, and the contact started with this Geller phenomena. It’s a fascinating book and it’s true. As I say, it changed his life quite a bit because he has devoted every minute of his time since then to the dissemination of this information to the people of Planet Earth because he believes that it is of utmost importance that everyone find out what’s going on.

Other people just want to forget about it. I’ve known numerous contactees who don’t want to talk about it, they don’t want to have anything more to do with it, and they’d like to forget about it and continue on like it never happened. So you have the full range of types, and they vary between the two ends of the spectrum.

Now that we’re in a period of more or less détente with the Soviet Union and Red China, is the federal government withholding UFO information, or is there failure to come out and say, “Hey, look, we realize that there’s something to all these sightings”? Is that by design or are they too busy with other things or what?

The basic problem is that the UFO question is so beyond our present understanding that the government really doesn’t know what to do about it. They believe that not rocking the boat is probably the best policy. Now there are a lot of people who are complaining because Carter said he would release UFO information if he were elected.

That’s the last I heard.

Now US News and World Report about a month and a half ago stated that they expected the release of this information and CIA information later this year. I don’t know if that’s going to happen or not, but it might. Generally speaking, the government knows, definitely knows that there is something there. By the government that means there are certain people in the government who know more than others simply because they’ve put more time in on it. For instance, the section of the CIA that has UFOs under its wing, we are certain that there are people in that section who think that there is something to it because they have the information available. Everyone who has the statistical information available on UFOs knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that there’s something there, that it is a real phenomenon, and that it is quite possibly an extra-terrestrial contact. The problem is that it is of such an unexpected and unexplainable nature that they’re afraid to do anything with the information.

Are they afraid that dissemination of what little information they have would lead to a lot of unanswerable questions and possible government embarrassment?

Absolutely. They wouldn’t be able to answer 10% of the questions—

And they like to be in total control.


We all know that. Okay. Well, is there any particular place, are there any particular places around the world where more UFOs are sighted?

There are some high-density spots, but in general UFOs are seen everywhere, absolutely everywhere. If you look at a map of UFO sightings or UFO landings, or UFO occupant contacts, they’re pretty well sprinkled. It just so happens that the Ohio River Valley is a little higher density area than some other areas, but there are high dense areas all over the place.

What accounts for the higher density?

I don’t know.

I’ve heard the term “window area” used before. Would you care to talk about that?

No, because I haven’t any idea why one area should be a higher density area than another.

I see.

No data on it. All I know is that there are some spots.

Do you think that we’re dealing with one kind of alien spacecraft—


—from different planets?

No, I don’t. What I’d like to say now in order to answer this question, I’d like to have everyone stop and think for a minute that they’re living in 1877, just 100 years ago. Consider me telling you that I’m talking to you from a studio in northeast Lexington. Perhaps you’re riding along in a carriage with no horse, no steam, and I’m speaking to you from this remote distance. That would be incomprehensible. In fact, most of the things that we do, a scant 100 years in the future from 1877, are totally incomprehensible in 1877.

You go back another 100 years you wouldn’t be able to even understand the possibility of motion without a horse or someone pulling the carriage. Now we tend to extrapolate into the future from our present experience and it is impossible to use present experience and arrive at the UFO phenomena. That is, we tend, in our present condition, to think immediately that if this ship lands and an entity gets out and he looks like he has a spacesuit on, then he must be an astronaut type being and he could be from another planet. What I’m going to tell you now will sound possibly crazy, possibly too far out, too science fiction, but what I’m going to tell you is the result of the best thinking, to my way of looking at it anyway—

And as a partial defense we’ll interject here again you’re reminded that Don Elkins is a physicist by training. Go ahead.

The best thinking, and this is shared by numerous people who’ve been studying the UFO phenomena for 30 years, is that these craft that we are experiencing now, are not only extraterrestrial, or from other planets, but they’re also extra-dimensional. There is a mountain of evidence that indicates that these ships are not within our normal reality most of the time, and that immediately explains why we have such a difficult time describing where they come from or what they are doing.

Now, this in no way makes the ship unreal, in no way makes the occupant unreal. We tend to think of reality as being what we experience on the surface of this planet, but from the point of an atomic physicist’s view, from his point of view, reality is made up of minute particles which are displaced in space monstrous distances from each other. In other words, if you were to take all of the material in your body, all of the atoms, all of the subatomic particles in your body and compressed them so that they all touched one another, after that compression took place so that there was no more empty space in your body, you would not be able to see the 150 pounds or 200 pounds that makes you up, it would be that small. In fact, you wouldn’t be able to see it using a microscope. There is literally no volume used in the particles that make up your body.

It is quite similar to the picture on a television set. We just happen to be tuned in, you might say, to a certain frequency of reality. Now if we’re on Channel 3, you might say that some of the UFOs are operating on Channel 4, and what happens is that when they come into our volume of space, in order to make contact, to make visual or tangible contact, with the people of this planet, it’s necessary for them to change what you might call their frequency, and become real in our reality. At that time they are just as real as we are—they’re the same as us.

Now that’s by intent on their part. They have the ability to jump from one reality…

This is the theory at this time—that it is by intent in a large percentage of the cases. There may be some intentional materializations.

Now there has been considerable experimental work done in the field of paranormal research on materializations. I have witnessed personally some very interesting materializations.

We’re all familiar with the concept of the ghost, and it’s so familiar that no one has to explain what a ghost is, but yet ask most anyone you meet, and they say they don’t believe in ghosts. Well, everybody knows what one is though.

Well ghosts are something that we have investigated quite carefully experimentally, and I and Carla have observed numerous ghosts, real ghosts, materialize out of nothing—become perfectly solid and tangible in front of us so that we could carry on a conversation with them. One very evidential ghost was able to slap us both on the arm like that, good and hard to show us that he was solid. After doing that, he said: “Well now that I’ve shown you that I’m solid, I want to walk through you, just stand still,” and he walked through us showing both the properties of total solidity and the ability to pass through solid matter in the space of a second or two.

Let’s pause for a second here and I’ll play the devil’s advocate, and pretend I’m your Mr. Listener out there in the audience thinking “these people are crazy!” Why did that happen and how were you able to have a ghost approach you, walk through you?

Well, it’s done all the time. Professor John Taylor, who is head of the Department of Mathematics at Kings College, London, has written a book called Superminds. The book is primarily about children who have the ability to bend metal mentally. But, he devotes some chapters to other phenomena. One of the chapters is devoted to this materialization phenomena, and it is devoted to the experimental work of materializing ghosts.

Now, if you want to materialize a ghost what you have to do is the same thing as if you want to measure the trajectory of an electron in a magnetic field you have to have the right equipment available. Now the right equipment available in this case is not some piece of electronic gadgetry, but it happens to be a certain type of person, and they’re very rare. Everybody has heard of the trance medium and, of course, when you say that a lot of people say: “Oh, that’s a lot of malarkey, charlatans are up to bilking people who want to contact their deceased.”

Now is that ESP?

ESP is a blanket term having to do with a lot of things. It’s not basically ESP, it’s simply an individual who has an ability to exude a material called “ectoplasm.” This material looks like thick white cigar smoke and it is used to build the ghostly body. This has been done time and time again under controlled conditions, and if you’ll bother to look up Taylor’s book Superminds, which was just published two years ago, you’ll see some good pictures of these materializations and the ghosts manifesting so that you can talk to them and they can touch you under the right conditions.

And there is a secret to investigating these things. Many, many people have attempted to investigate various paranormal phenomena such as ghosts or UFOs or psychic surgery or psychokinesis. All these things do very well for the person who has a belief or faith, and do not do very well at all for a person who is skeptical.

Therefore, when you are investigating these things, you have to do two things. First of all, be perfectly objective in your discriminatory mind, and be absolutely gullible in your attitude towards the possibility of it happening. It’s a very difficult combination to hit just right unless you have some experience in it. The gullibility does not mean that you cannot then recognize a hoax. When Don and I were working on the ghosts (because we felt that if this was true of UFOs then we needed to find other phenomena that was like that), we retained our researchers’ objectivity, but at the same time we were absolutely willing for this to occur, and had faith that if we could find a medium that was good, and we found a séance that was full of good people that all had the same desire to see these things appear, that we would get a psychic demonstration. And this is what happened: we found a good medium, we found a good bunch, and we saw a lot of ghosts. It doesn’t happen to everybody who sits down in their living room. Not everyone is a good natural medium and not everyone is a good natural sitter. There are an awful lot of sceptics.

When you start talking about having faith and finding, striking the right happy medium between objectivity and faith and so forth, when speaking publicly doesn’t that cause you a real loss of credibility? How do you surmount that?

This is the problem in the investigation, and this is the problem in investigating the UFO phenomena. The phenomena is designed to negate credibility. This is the crux of the entire investigation. This is the reason that the UFO phenomena has remained for 30 years now, in a state of pure confusion as far as the general investigator is concerned; only the, shall we say, most dedicated investigators have penetrated what is behind the big problem in this investigation. What’s simply behind it is that the phenomena itself is designed to be in-credible.

How do you mean that? You’re saying it is inherently incredible or are you saying that there’s some—

By purpose and by design. The people who operate both phenomena, the materialized ghosts or the UFOs, the phenomena itself is so designed so that it cannot be proven. They want it that way.

You’re saying the aliens—

The aliens or whatever you want to call them, they want it to be of such a nature that—

So they’ll say: “Man, you are out of your tree!”

That is precisely what they want, they want it to be controversial.

Or they can say if they’re ready for it, “There’s something here I don’t understand, I am going to be seeking the answer to this now.” See, it’s like an advertising campaign—it gets your attention, if you’re ready for it. If you’re not ready for it you can go about your normal business.

Let me make a little analogy here. Let’s say we are a very intelligent race—I’m not saying we are—but let’s say we’re a very intelligent race [laughter].

They’re probably up there laughing at us right now.

That reminds me of the old joke, the question is not is there intelligent life in space, the question is, is there intelligent life on earth.

Yeah, right.

But, say that we’re a very intelligent race and we have mastered space travel and we’ve been doing it for centuries, and we know about inhabited planets all over the galaxy and other galaxies, and we’re carrying on trade and communications with them, but here and there are isolated planets, and they’re isolated because the population is just not intelligent enough to be contacted, there’s no way we can communicate. If we land, they make gods out of us, or they try to kill us, so we just leave them alone and wait until they develop to the point where we can begin to contact them. Now, how are we going to make that contact?

Just say that we’re just sitting here, that I’m the president of the galactic federation, and you’re the chief executive officer and I’m saying, “Look, look George, the best way to do this, I think, is to wake them up a little bit at a time, do some fly-bys, possibly orbit the planet with a few 100,000 ships, keep them invisible to them, and, oh, what did you say their year is? Oh, that short, huh. Well, how about 30 or 50 of their years? We’ll use that for the first indoctrination period, and we’ll orbit their planet for a while, and we’ll use some of the old tried and true techniques for getting through to them. Don’t make many landings, you know, make a few here and there—get them interested. But keep them off balance, don’t really let them know who we are, and possibly in a few years they’ll begin to understand what we’re all about. I think that’s the only way we’re going to be able to handle them yet, because they can’t even teleport yet. They don’t have, they can’t communicate with each other telepathically. They can’t even—they have to use their hands to lift things. They’re way back there, you know, we’re going to have to make this very careful or they will either make gods out of us, or we already know they’ll try to kill us because we sent a little probe down there awhile go and the first things they did was shoot at it.”

Well, it may be a very intelligent thing to do, to advertise your position, advertise that there is the possibility that you’re there, and do it in such a way that only the interested people on the planet begin to really investigate. And when they start to really investigate maybe they then begin to understand you, and then maybe those interested people can really begin to understand where you’re coming from and start to write books about you, and maybe then they’ll start making movies about you. And then, possibly, you’ll get from the stage where we were, say, at the turn of the century where nobody knew anything, to the place where we are now, where we say there could be people on other planets.

At the turn of the century not even one percent of the people knew that other planets were possible. The night sky was a bunch of little silver dots in black, and now everybody, everybody on the planet knows that there is a possibility of extraterrestrial life, that contact could be made in the future, and that contact might not be like we thought it would always be, up through the time Orson Welles’ radio broadcast in the 1930s when we were sure that if anybody came here that it would be in attack ships with ray guns. 3 Possibly—

One thing we can be sure of is that they aren’t here to harm us because in 30 years I think they probably would have gotten to it by now.

Yeah, In fact, most of the—there have been a lot of physical repercussions, you might say, from UFO contact. There have been people who have been hurt a little bit because they were too close to the ship and, in some case, received slight burns and had other problems. But more than have been inadvertently hurt by close contact to the landed craft, there have been many many more healed of all sorts of ailments from bad cuts, a medical doctor had a very very bad cut on his leg that would have left a permanent scar, he cut it with an axe, and the UFO showed a bright, white beam on him and the leg healed instantly and left no scar.

And that is supposedly a sign of their friendship or their good intent?

Well, let’s say in 30 years there have been more good things coming out of it than bad things.

Yeah. Now why are they coming here? For the same reason that we would send a probe to Mars?

All right, now in order to say why they’re coming here, we have to build up an entire extraterrestrial philosophy. Now, you say “How in the world can you build an extraterrestrial philosophy?” The way you do it is you do it with communications with extraterrestrials. Now that’s been my major area of interest since 1962. I’ll give you a brief run down on how this came about.

In the early 1950’s quite a few people reported contact with a landed spacecraft—quite a few. They reported what they were told by the aliens who got out and talked to them. Now, the form of communication took the form of either perfect fluent English, broken English, or in most of the cases, direct mental communication, mind-to-mind communication, or telepathy.

You’re saying the communication between the aliens and the contacts or whatever—

Was telepathic. One of the best documented and provable cases is the case of Betty and Barney Hill, [their story was featured on] a television program last year, was shown twice as I remember it, two-hour television dramatic film.

Betty and Barney had a UFO close encounter, and afterwards for a period of several months, they had nightmares. They went to a psychiatrist about this. The psychiatrist hypnotized each of them and regressed them to the time of the incident. Now, he kept them separate and he never let one know what the other was saying under hypnosis and they told identical stories. They told stories of being taken on board a UFO—being given physical examinations and communicating telepathically directly, mind to mind, with the occupants.

Now this has been going on since the early 50s. George Van Tassel report this, George Adamski reported it, George Hunt Williamson; there are numerous people—I could go on to a long list like Howard Menger, Wayne [Sulo] Aho, too long to get into—who reported the same type of contact, primarily telepathic communication.

In 1962 I decided that—if this was reported by so many people, and they seemed to be reporting the same type of communication, and in general the same type of philosophic contact—that to see if I could duplicate the alleged telepathic communication using a control situation, and then you might say a semi-laboratory type situation, using people who had no UFO experience at all and who had read nothing at all about UFOs. We did this with over 100 people. I’ve carried on the experiment ever since. It’s 15 years now since I started the experiment. It’s still continuing and we’re still building what I consider to be “the extraterrestrial philosophy.”

Actually, what they’re here for and why they’re doing it this way—we have at this time answers to almost every question you can ask with respect to purpose of the contact, regarding at least a large percentage of the UFO contacts.

Now, all the UFOs aren’t coming from the same place. They’re coming from many, many different places.

About how many?

Vastly more than 600 different places.

Okay. What gives you that ballpark figure?

George Hunt Williamson’s contact back in 1955 when he was told how many different places they were coming from. We’ve been trying to validate that ever since and—

So there’s reason to believe that one alien realizes he’s one of 599, he’s one of 600 other groups of aliens—

That’s right.

They’re all in on this together.

Now, let me say this, that we were able in this 15 year period to, out of actually millions of words—

[End of Side One]

[Side Two picks up in the middle of a sentence]

… first communications occurred in Israel in 1972. When I read his communications, they were so parallel to the material we’d been getting in Louisville, Kentucky, that there was no doubt that he was contacting a group that was affiliated with the same group that we were contacting.

We have distilled out of all these millions of words of communications, that I can now say are from the UFOs, I can’t prove it to you, I can prove it to you possibly in a year, if you come work with me for a year I’ll prove it to you, but if you want me to do it in the next 15 minutes, I can’t prove it to you because it’s very like me trying to prove to you the latest theory in atomic physics. How a quark operates, you have to take the course first, right? Then we get on equal ground and then you can say, “Oh, yes, I see that.” Now I show you a photographic plate and I say “here’s a trace of what’s happening here. You see this brown, now look at the radius. The magnetic field was this and that,” and you say, “Oh, fine, great.” If you’ve taken the course then we can do it.

Well, what I was saying was I can’t prove to you this, but I can provide a complete understanding of their philosophy as we have distilled it. It’s a relatively simple philosophy.

This is on the basis of what?

Of the communications. Millions of words. All using all types of techniques for communicating.

And over a period of—

Well, I’ve been at it for 15 years, but it started back around 1950.

So this is based on a compilation of all contact throughout most of recorded history?

Yes. Carla and I have written a book about this. Actually, the earliest contacts we have in the book are done in 1884, and there are a lot of communications that are made in 1884 that correlate precisely with communications we’re getting daily.

Now, we’ve written a book about it called Secrets of the UFO and it’s available at the following address: 2120 Douglas Boulevard, Louisville, Kentucky 40205.* It’s difficult to state very quickly what the philosophy is. It takes a little building up, but I can say in general, I can generally state the philosophy that we’ve distilled from these millions of words, and it simply is this: that there are people scattered throughout the entire universe, and the universe is a very very big thing. There are One Hundred Thousand Million stars like our sun in this galactic system alone. Each one could have a planetary system like ours, and our galactic system is only one of billions. It would take 100,000 years for light to travel across our galactic system, and light has a speed of 186,000 miles per second.

[Editor’s note: Don and Carla’s apartment at the time. The book is now available for free from, and in print from L/L’s online store.]

To interrupt for one second, anyone who, looking at this thing logically, believes that we are one of a kind, or that we are in this universe by ourselves. It’s a very illogical person, would you agree with that?

I would agree with that, yes.

The simple laws of probability rule that out.

Right. Well, what they say, is that there are so many people throughout the part of the universe that they know about, and they haven’t been able to penetrate the entire universe yet, but there are so many that the number on earth is almost insignificant. They say that it’s monstrous beyond our wildest imagination. Now, since they’ve been able to roam around the galaxy—

You say “they”—

Yes, since they’ve been able to roam around the galaxy for eons of time, actually, they have become aware of certain principles, and one of the principles they’ve become aware of is that something created the entire thing because there’s too much duplication across the universe. There are people that look just like us on the other side of the galaxy.

How do you know that?

That’s what they say plus the fact that a lot of the people who get out of UFOs look just like us. In fact—

I have read that too, as a matter of fact.

In fact, we strongly suspect there were some in the restaurant here in Lexington just a couple of months ago.

I’m still trying to play the devil’s advocate and be the receiver out there in radioland. So I’ll tell you what, on that note we’ll let the audience rest for a minute. Folks, don’t go away, we’ll be right back to explore a little more deeply what Dr. Elkins and his assistant Carla just said.

… in Lexington we have a contactee we’ve been working with lately say that she has seen extraterrestrials, if you want to call them that, and that off of the UFO that she was taken on board in a Lexington restaurant. On several occasions they’ve come in and ordered food and just stared at her. In fact, the other waitress said, “That man is staring at you,” and she said “yeah, I know,” and she didn’t know what to say about it because he was one of the ones she’d seen on board the UFO.

You said they looked the same in the restaurant as they did on board?


Exactly like us?

Yes. Well, they walked in the restaurant and nobody noticed them as being very unusual.

Now would it be your guess that they have the ability to make themselves look like us, or are they one group of people that just happens to look like us?

I believe that quite probably throughout space there are a lot of people that look enough like us to walk our streets and never be noticed. We have enough information now from contactees—people who’ve been taken on board then taken to another planet and back, which seems like it is an impossibility but we have ways of investigating now that we didn’t have back in the early fifties. In the early fifties you got a story from somebody; you didn’t have much to go on. It was just a story, you didn’t know what to do with it. Now, we’ve got so much information, such a mountain of information that we can say, “Well, what about this?” Or “What did that look like?” Or “What was the light like inside?” And ask them all sorts of questions that are very evidential. And we can say, “Ah ha, this guy is telling a standard story, he knows what he’s talking about,” and yet the information is not easily available for an inexperienced investigator to get.

Now, as I was saying, from the distillation of the millions of words of the philosophy, you might say, of these people—that we’ve gotten through various techniques, a very large portion of it through this telepathic experiment—we have been able to build an idea or an understanding of where they’re coming from, that is, not physically coming from but where they are in their minds.

Where they are seems to be a very beautiful place to be, that is for a very large percentage of them anyway. It seems their evolution has not only been technological but it has been what we would call “spiritual,” and it seems that quite possibly a lot of the religious type of impulses that have been felt on planet Earth have come from extraterrestrial sources.

Now interpreting exactly what this means is quite a problem. I’ll try to distill it into a few simple statements: Their basic philosophy is based on total equality throughout the universe of everything that lives, and this equality is so total that they are totally careful with respect to free will in their contacts, and that is the reason behind their very careful contact with planet Earth. They respect earthman, and they respect his right to take any approach to life that he wants to take.

Now the ones that we have been most often communicating with are not warlike at all—they have no wars. But, they respect, strangely enough, the right of a population to have war if they want to. For this reason, they are very limited in their ability to contact Earth because of their respect for the right of earthman to do anything he wants to. They’re also limited for a number of other reasons, some of which I went into a little earlier.

Now, this type of philosophy started cropping up in the early 50s, first with a man called George Adamski, who was on the west coast and said he had face-to-face meeting with UFO occupants. In fact they met him at a hotel, downtown Los Angeles, and they went into a restaurant with him and had a meal. He said he was taken out to a landing site that was in the desert, was taken on board the craft, and taken for several rides.

Now, very, very few people believed him at the time. The basic philosophy that was given to him by the extraterrestrials was in general the same philosophy that we’ve been extracting experimentally over a fifteen year period. After Adamski there were numerous other contactees and it began rapidly to spread around the entire world.

In each case, if the contactee was given any information at all about what the aliens were like or what their philosophy was, the information had something to do with what you might call their spiritual attitude and the fact that they saw the universe as a thing of unity and that they were very, very in awe of the force behind the creation.

It’s difficult, in an analysis like this, to use the word “God” because we’re dealing with a totally alien society that has numerous other viewpoints. However, if you want to use the word “Creator,” they were in awe of a universal creator who created them and us as equal parts, and they were here at this time to bring to earthman, some information that he desperately needed at this time in order to allow him to evolve in a normal manner, if he wished to.

And this was when?

Well, this started, this became big business in the early 50s you might say. It’s been going on for years and years. For instance there’s a book called Oahspe that was telepathically communicated to a doctor in 1884. 4 It’s a very large book with over 1,000 pages of fine print, and it has to do with UFO contact then. It’s aimed along the same lines as the material I’m giving you now.

Well, one of the reasons that the scientific community didn’t look at these alleged communications in the early 50s very carefully was simply that they felt they were some type of religious cultist activity and the crackpots were disseminating this. It just sounded too pat, 5 it sounded like they were making up some story about gods coming from outer space.

Well, to boil the thing down, that’s roughly what seems to be happening except they aren’t gods, they’re people like us, who are very, very careful to state that they are no better than us, just in a little different place along the chain of evolution of thought. Now, a very large percentage of the material that is accumulated, whether it be by radio, by impression on cassette tape recorder, or by telepathic impression, or by direct verbal communication between the alien and the individual—a very large percentage of it has to do with this philosophy, which is a philosophy of unity over the entire universe, having to do with the unity of all living things.

Now, in addition to that there is a smaller percentage of technical information having to do with quite a few other things from how their craft operate to how they build them.

Now, one question that you might want to ask is about the big buildup of UFO sightings at this time.

Well, since 1950. I have my own theory, which is based on nothing, but I recall reading the newspaper account of a man who was driving along one night and then hours later found himself in another town or something. He woke up and he was clutching a note, written in his own handwriting, which said [paraphrasing]: “Atomic testing for warlike purposes will definitely be stopped. You are threatening the equilibrium of the universe.” And my own theory as a novice in this whole thing but someone with a strong interest admittedly, is that since the explosion of the atomic bomb, I’m talking about Hiroshima, and other above ground testings, they have taken a particular interest in what’s going on here. Is there any evidence that backs that up?

Now there are a couple of reasons, and that’s one of them. The UFOs have been around long before the atom bomb was detonated and before we even thought of it, but a lot showed up very shortly after the bomb.

And I’m asking is that why there’s been a rash since the end of World War II?

Some of them had the definite mission of telling us to cut it out with the bomb. There’s no doubt about that. There have been a lot of reports of UFO occupants saying to man on Earth, “Don’t explode atomic bombs.” However, there were a lot of “foo fighters,” which are small UFOs during World War II before the bomb was exploded. The foo fighter was called a foo fighter by the American Air Force.

It’s French for fire. 6

Yes, and the French were seeing them, the Germans were seeing them. It’s a small UFO, maybe a foot in diameter, so a disc shape and it would fly in formation with the bombers or fighters, and nobody knew what they were. Now, the United States Air Force thought they were a German secret weapon, the Germans thought they were a U.S. secret weapon, and after the war was over they found out that neither one of them knew what they were. Well, there was a reason for coming to Earth, and a reason for making contact over and above the atomic bombs and the atomic testing. However, this did create considerable concern among the UFO people and—

And all of this is based upon the contacts across the globe with various UFOs?

Yes. A lot of it has been to do with the atomic bombs, but this isn’t the primary reason. This is a secondary area, just a branch, you might say.

I’m just reminding the audience that this is based on fact.

Yeah. Well, the reason that has been communicated through numerous sources— And this started back in 1884 with the doctor’s telepathic contact with the occupants that continued with one of the contactees, or more than one actually, in the Mohave Desert in the 50s by George Van Tassel and George Hunt Williamson.

George Hunt Williamson, by the way, was an anthropologist. He was in Who’s Who, and wrote numerous books about the UFO contact. They were very, very penetrating books, and he was talking about things in the early 50s that I’m talking about now. The University of Arizona got a little excited about one of their professors of anthropology going crackers so you can see that he had some trouble in the 50s with material like this. We don’t have quite as much trouble now; it’s becoming almost approved to be an investigator of the UFO phenomena.

Anyway, what these people said, the information that they got, had to do with what is called “a termination of a cycle,” and that’s what’s happening to our planetary system at this time according to the contactees, numerous of the contactees. It seems that there are natural cycles which just like the Earth moves round the Sun once every 365 days to make a year, that’s a natural cycle. There’s a natural 3,000 year cycle, and every 3,000 years, something happens to Earth, and we’re terminating a 3,000 year cycle at this time that will be over by the year 2000. And the UFOs show up in great numbers just before the termination of each 3,000 year cycle.

Does anything in recorded history substantiate that?

You mean of anything that happened 3,000 years ago?

The cycle itself substantiated by a good deal of ancient accounts of a flood, or a devastation, or something that almost obliterated life on Earth about 3,000 years ago.

Anyway, these occur in multiples of 3,000 years and it seems that according to the contactees, that we’re ending a 75,000 year cycle made up of numerous 3,000 year cycles, and this is a big one, so to speak.

Now, Andrija Puharich whom I spoke of earlier, was getting all these communications on these cassette tape recorder, and one of the communications stated “We landed in South America 3,000 years ago, and now we must land again. We want you to prepare Earth for our landing,” a mass landing on Earth—that’s what they told Puharich. He’s been working to try to get some information out. It’s slow, difficult, because it’s information that a lot of people don’t believe, and he can’t prove it. And as I say, the reason for no proof is spelled out in our book. But this cyclical—

Let me ask you this: don’t they have a lot to do with how easy UFOs are to prove? If they wanted to be easy to prove, if they really wanted to prepare us for the mass landing, as they say, couldn’t they make it a lot easier on ol’ Puharich?

They could very. They could make their mass landing, but they—

Couldn’t they make more individual landings here and there and let governors and presidents—

They could. Now this is the problem. You have to understand their philosophy—this is a very fine point—the philosophy of these people. That is, I’ll try to explain it with this analogy. Let’s say that you were driving down the street and you heard a commotion coming from a house and you saw some fire coming out the windows and a few bullets flying out, and heard an awful argument going on in the house and one person stuck their head out the window and said “Oh boy, can’t you come in here and give me a hand? These people are really going crazy in here, they’re having a small war in this house,” and maybe it wasn’t quite that bad, maybe they were just having a great big argument. And you’d say, “Well, I don’t know, it’s not my place to go in there, that’s their house and that’s their property, and should I run in there and tell them where to get off? Should I tell them to be quiet, I’m not a policeman.” You wouldn’t really feel like going in there unless there was a very, very violent thing going on.

Such as an atomic bomb perhaps?

Yeah. Now if they had an atomic bomb in there you might feel threatened out on the street, right? Well, this is sort of an analogy to what’s happening—not quite an exact analogy because what they are doing is that they are respecting the free will of the numerous people here on Earth who do not want contact with them. There are lots of people here on Earth who do not contact with any extraterrestrial, any alien, any UFO source absolutely.

Let’s put it another way. They may be interested or intrigued by the thought of UFO contact, but they don’t want to change their lifestyle, they don’t want to rethink their basic philosophy of life. They’re not ready to get out of this vibration that we’re now living in, which is what—

What do you mean, “vibration?” Can you define that?

The 9-to-5 house and two kids—all the good things of life; all the things that make this life great. All the things you live with gusto.

We’ll all have a Schlitz after the show [laughter].

There are a certain amount of people that, although they enjoy this life, they do feel that there is something more. But there are quite a few people who enjoy this life and that’s fine, that’s enough.


“We only go around once in life,” right? And that is their whole philosophy, so they don’t want to bother these people. And they cannot even go into a house as easily as we can because we’re just neighbors, and the people in there arguing could turn to us and say “Get out of here.”

What about those people like myself, I’ll tell ya, who would love to see a UFO?

Well, then you have a pretty good chance of seeing one.

Tell me how it works.

Well, if you have a great enough desire to see a UFO, and really follow it up, then maybe in the next few years you’ll see one of them at the most unexpected time. But one thing that we’ve discovered is that the people that we’ve worked with training to be what we call “telepathic receivers of UFO messages,” have quite often seen a UFO shortly after they became interested enough to go through the training program. They then see a UFO and quite often they see the UFO at relatively close range. We’ve even had a UFO land and the occupants get out and come within a short distance of some of the people involved with us.

Tell us about the training program.

The training program is very simple. You have to learn telepathy.

Oh, that’s something that can be learned?

Yeah, sure.

Okay, I think it’s basically held that gifted people know the art of telepathy.

This is true of anything. Gifted people are excellent natural pitchers but you can train just about anybody to do a passable job.

Now let’s assume I want to do a passable job here. Go ahead.

Okay, people who are investigating telepathy like to have real good evidential proof that it works. If I can sit over here and draw a picture of something, and if you don’t look at it, and you can draw the same picture, then that’s perfect telepathy. Well, I can do that with one person every time and that is Uri Geller. He is totally a real telepath. The reason I can do that with him every time is that he has a terrific mental tuning—it’s a natural mental tuning.

Now are you saying he draws what you first draw?

Either way, we do it both ways. He draws it or I draw it.

Now does his… you have that mental tuning yourself?

Only with Geller.

So he gives you something.

He… let me say this. Now if I’m—this is an FM station, right?


If I’m outside in my car driving down the express way and I have an FM station tuned that’s different than this one, and I drive past your antenna, there’s a very good chance that I’m going to get some of your station, right?


Now why? The reason is that I’ve got a very strong transmitter very close. Same thing with telepathy. If you have a very strong transmitter very close, even if you’re not tuned to the right channel, or right frequency, you’re going to get some.

Now, if you can tune your radio to a blank spot where you’ve got no radiation at all—you’re not receiving any program, all right, you just have a total blank. Now, if you can tune your radio to that and drive by this antenna, you’re going to get only your radio station.

Now that’s how it works. First you have to have a good sender. Now that’s the UFO source or Uri Geller or one of the little Gellers. By “little Gellers” I mean there are thousands of children around the world now that can do with Geller does—thousands of them and they are increasing every day.

I don’t want to lose the question which is “What do I do?”

Okay, here’s what you do.

But I would like to ask you one thing first. I’m sorry—

All right.

What makes Uri Geller so special?

Well, all I can say about Geller is when Puharich used time regression hypnosis on him and ran him back to his early childhood, Geller remembered that at age three [under hypnosis], that a UFO came down and shown a bright white light on him, and after that, he found that he could just look at clock hands or watch hands and they would instantly move to the time that he wished them to move to. Of course he can bend and break metal mentally and he’s a perfect telepath.

And you’ve seen him do some of these things?

Oh, here are a couple of our drawings right here. You can describe those if you want. Then this is me to Geller, and that’s Geller to me.

Have you seen him bend metal?

Oh, yeah, sure, I’ve got lots of pieces of things that he’s bent while I was holding them.

Okay, so apparently Uri Geller is some sort of an extra, ah, extra tuned-in person by virtue of a contact with a UFO at age three?

Oh yeah, it seems so, yes.

All right and very few people can do what he does, I presume?

Yeah, except for these thousands of children that are showing up now. They seem to have developed the ability around age seven, and they get better at it as they get older. They are all over the place.

And it’s just now that they—

The children have been showing up for a couple of years.

Any theories as to why?

Yeah, we’ve… but that’s an entire subject in itself and goes even deeper into the mystery.

Now that we’ve established Uri Geller, we’ll go back to—

How you train yourself.


Well, now, as I was saying, if I wanted to get this station and I didn’t know how to set my dial on my radio, I didn’t know what frequency we were on, I could set it to a blank place where I was getting nothing on the radio and then drive close to your transmitter.

So the first thing you have to do is get your mind into a blank place, and then you have to get close to a transmitter. So the way you get your mind tuned to that blank place is that you learn to think of nothing—it’s quite a trick for some people. Some people aren’t thinking of much anyway so it isn’t so much trouble. But, what you do is you sit in a chair and you either stare at something or close your eyes. You get in a place where there are no distractions and you let your mind run down, literally, until it’s thinking of nothing.

Now, you won’t get a UFO contact unless a contactee gives you what air traffic control might call a “handoff.” You have to have a UFO source, and once you’ve learned to tune your mind, then it’s best to come in contact with a contactee. He doesn’t have to tell you anything about what you’re going to get, he just has to say “Ok, now are you ready for a UFO contact?”

When you do that, with just a little—a minor amount of training, and a few instructions that I can’t go into now because they’re a little complex, you can get the UFO contact. But the training, the entire training phase has to do with nothing but the ability to blank your mind, that is, to think of nothing, to give yourself an open, clear channel for reception.

Once you’ve got your open receiver ready, then we can teach you how to get the program, 7 and then as soon as you get it, you can say it out loud and repeat it just like you’re listening to it on the radio. And instead of getting the entire thing continuously, though, you’ll get a part of a sentence at a time. Your radio station, your mental radio station will come in something like this: “We are now…” and you’ll say “We are now…” And then you’ll get “with you,”—“with you.” “We’re at present in… “ and you’ll say “We’re at present in… ,” “a craft… “—“a craft,” “eight of your miles above the surface directly above your present position…”

You’ll say it in pieces like that. And I’ve done this with over 100 people and it works. And in many cases I’ve used people who had no previous experience with the phenomena and who really didn’t believe in it, in fact—

Are these people who professed a willingness to have contact with UFOs. In other words, did they remove the mental blocks to becoming a receiver?

… that they come in contact with the source.

Oh, yeah.

They said, “I don’t believe in it, but I’m going to sit in the room and blank my mind,” right?

You don’t—the stuff of faith is not necessarily a blind crazy belief. The stuff of faith is that you create a universe in your mind in which this is a possibility, so you’re not being foolish, you’re simply being honestly and completely open. It’s a genuinely hard thing for some skeptics to do, but that’s all that’s necessary.

I would like to say one thing about meditating, or letting your mind go blank and trying to get contact. It’s much better to do it in a group for the simple reason that the UFOs are not the only ones that are sending messages, and tuning is definitely important. You don’t want to get hold of the wrong entity and waste time or be bothered. So if you are deliberately opening yourself to contact, let it be in a group that knows enough about tuning so that you, as a group and as an individual, are protected.

What kind of tuning now. Is this analogous to a séance or something?

No, it isn’t. Let me say this. You know that you can turn a radio set on and you can get all kinds of stuff. If you have a good receiver you can get Europe. Now if you’ve got a good receiver you’d learn to blank your mind and tune real well—there’s all kinds of stuff that you can pick up. You might—no telling what you’ll pick up.

So what you have to do is you have to be with someone or a group with experience in doing this. You shouldn’t go off and do it by yourself, because no telling what sort of garbage you’ll start picking up. You have to be with somebody who knows something about the process, it’s not simple enough for you to go out and get a do-it-yourself kit and do it. So we don’t recommend that at all. 8

Although 20 or 30 minutes of meditation, or blanking your mind a day is perfectly acceptable for anyone and probably will help, no matter what reason you’re doing it for.

Does that account for the fact that a lot of people who are in to meditation report these incredible visions, this incredible awareness of the infinite universe and all the things that you’ve heard and read about—


—and that accounts for part of the stigma attached to things like TM, and other disciplines.

It’s possible. Inside our minds in the inner planes we’re in contact with the entire universe which goes on for ever and ever and has many many panoramas of wonderful things to see and hear. The only reason that we don’t see them all the time is because we’re looking through our physical eyes, hearing through our physical ears, and we’re limiting ourselves in order to gain experience in a physical way in this life. Through meditation, through prayer, through any kind of discipline of this nature you are opening up the gates into the infinite within your own mind.

So this receivership or whatever—

And you’ll see wonderful things.

Yeah. Is this another sense? Is this a “sixth sense”?

Well, no, it’s the original sense.

Used a different way.

It’s the original perception that we were born with that most people don’t use at all. It’s an interesting thing to note that we use only about eight to ten percent of our brains.


We have a lot of things we don’t use. We have a lot of perceptions that we are not consciously aware of.

All right, now why don’t we use them? Have we not taught ourselves to use them? Or is there more than that?

I don’t know why we don’t use them. I think we—

Let me rephrase that. Why do all those seven or nine-year-old kids use them?

Well, this, as I say, if I’d talked about this, 20 years ago, it would have been a little too crackpot to talk about it; and if I’d talked about it 100 years ago, I would have been run out of town on a rail; if I’d talked about it 500 years ago, like Giordano Bruno who was burned at the stake for suggesting that the earth revolved around the sun, I probably would have been burned at the stake. But what we’re finding out is that the kids who are able to do this remember living on other planets.

Ah boy. I can just see the audience. A brief explanation and then we’ll get back to UFOs.

Well, in 1955 as I was experimenting in paranormal phenomena, I started doing Morey Bernstein’s experiment. Morey Bernstein was responsible for the famous Bridey Murphy experiment which was made into a movie in the late 50s having to do with a hypnotic regression of an American woman that passed birth. When he did this she had an awareness of living in Ireland, spoke the language and relived an entire former life in Ireland. I’ve carried on a similar experiment now for 22 years, and a friend of mine has also that I work with together. We’ve done—he’s done many more than I have—but combined we’ve done over 2,000 experiments in regressive hypnosis having to do with regressions past birth. This is Larry Allison of Louisville, Kentucky. He’s had several articles written about him in the Louisville newspaper. A lot of material that we’ve gotten is very evidential, we have people who remember numerous previous lives and they’re able to speak languages fluently that they spoke in the previous life.

Under hypnotic regression?

Under hypnotic regression. Yes. They’re able to describe perfectly where they lived and the environment and just this past summer we had a man go to England and check out his regression to see if he actually had lived at that place in England and he found 100 points that correlated precisely with his hypnotic regression.

You’re saying there is documented evidence available to the layman—

A ton of it.

Perhaps the best known book documenting a specific case is Jess Stearn’s book The Search for the Girl with Blue Eyes, a very good popularly written book that I think is available in paperback. The 100 points that this particular guy was able to check off his particular list included not only the description of a certain habit that monks wore then, but never again; in a certain place, of course, the name of the place—Holy Island—which I had never heard of; other things like that, but such strange little items as during his regression he saw seals playing in the ocean off the shore and yet he said it was Holy Island which was right off the coast of Britain. Seals off the coast of Britain? 9 But when he went to Holy Island there was a breeding ground where seal pups were playing right off the coast.

So we’re speaking of reincarnation?

Oh, yeah. Well, I’ve done this so—

Just trying to make sure—

Well, I’ve done this so many times that the first few dozen or hundred times you do it, the first bits of data you get on it and you might say “Well, you know, what does this mean, is this really what’s happening or is this due to something else.” When you get as many cases as are available now—and there are literally tens of thousands of these regressions that have been performed—you get as much correlation as there is now, there is really no other way to explain all the information that’s available. It has to happen, and this is the current theory for those of us who are in the area of UFO research that I’m in, as to where the children come from that can do all these weird things. It sounds like I’m talking about the plot for a nice science fiction movie you may see next year, but that’s where a lot of the plots come from.

Well, I think the problem is, again playing the ol’ devil’s advocate, is that it sounds like the kind of thing that you’d read on the cover of National Enquirer, and they’ve been caught too often making up this stuff. For example, they said that Walter Cronkite saw a UFO. Cronkite got back on the phone, I don’t know whether truthfully or not, and said “You made that whole thing up—I demand a retraction.” And that’s where that stigma that I keep referring to comes into play and it really does a lot to make this whole argument lose credibility. Go ahead, I’m sorry—

Fortunately, I’m not in the business of trying to prove this to anybody, and I never have made a dime off of it, and I doubt that I’ll really make any money off this book. I don’t really need the money that I’d make off of this book anyway.

Except it would pay for the cost of making the book—

The book is just a way of giving interested people an idea of what’s been going on in this research.

But our data is researched by people who are telling us things who, far from wanting to make any money off of it, are usually simply frightened and wanting to find out what’s happening to them before sinking back into absolute obscurity. They don’t want their names known, they don’t anything to happen about it, so that what Don’s talking about comes from time after time that we’ve been given a whole bunch of data by somebody. So our data doesn’t come from the National Enquirer. Our data comes from folks. And folks, unless you check them out and discover that their personalities are not quite all there, not playing with all their marbles, folks will tell you the truth.

In what percentage of the cases do you discover that they had some psychological problems?

Very few.

I would suspect very few cases.

Most of the—as a matter of fact I would say 95% of all of the witnesses are normal, normal intelligence, maybe even a little below average intelligence, sensible, shrewd, good folks, country people quite often, because this is where things usually happen is out in the country. People that are not sophisticated and don’t have any angle, and just saw something; it scared them or it alarmed them and they want to know what happened.

And people are very good observers and remembers by and large, aren’t they?

No, they are not. Most people are lousy witnesses, but under hypnotic regression there is a much better concentration and they can tell you more of what they actually saw.

I was thinking more in terms of ability to remember pictures and so forth. If someone flashes 500 pictures in front of you and then adds another picture at the end of that 500 you will probably be able to tell him that that is in addition to the 500. I believe that that’s accurate.

Well, it’s far past the analysis of witnesses now since there is so much evidence. There is a monstrous amount of evidence. If I piled the evidence we have in front of you right now you couldn’t read it in the next year. [laughing] It would take me an hour just to carry the paper in here. It’s coming from all over the world. Every major country has a UFO Investigating organization. Most of the UFO investigating organizations are not governmental—some are—most are civilian. We have numerous organizations here in the United States. I’ll just name them off. There’s the Center for UFO studies at Northwestern University and it’s staffed primarily by university professors. There is the Arial Phenomena Research Organization in Tucson, Arizona. They’ve got about 75 university professors as consultants and they’ve got investigators in 50 foreign countries, approximately—

The WKQQ program opened with a campy song by Thed Byrds called “Hey, Mr. Space Man”


Woke up this morning, I was feeling quite weird Had flies in my beard, my toothpaste was smeared Over my window, they’d written my name Said, “So long, we’ll see you again”


Hey, Mr. Spaceman Won’t you please take me along I won’t do anything wrong Hey, Mr. Spaceman Won’t you please take me along for a ride

Woke up this morning with light in my eyes And then realized it was still dark outside It was a light coming down from the sky I don’t know who or why

[Editor’s note: The remainder of the lyrics weren’t played.]

Must be those strangers that come every night Those saucer shaped lights put people uptight Leave blue green footprints that glow in the dark I hope they get home alright


  1. The other city was Detroit, Michigan, and the other group was the Detroit Group. Whether the group called themselves that or not is unknown. Don and Carla referred to them as such.

    Don learned about their experience in contacting alleged UFO beings through telepathy (a.k.a.: channeling) by way of a transplant to Louisville from Detroit named Hal Price. Don was given the group’s material which he described as the “glue that brought [his investigation] together.” He subsequently learned the Detroit Group’s rudimentary protocols and brought them to Louisville to begin his own experiment in channeling in January, 1962. 

  2. Carla earned her Bachelors in English Literature in 1966, and her Masters in Library Service in 1971. She took and excelled in multiple philosophy courses, but did not earn a degree in philosophy. 

  3. In October, 1938, Orson Welles directed and narrated a radio broadcast titled The War of the Worlds, based on H.G. Wells’ 1898 novel of the same name. The story featured an aggressive alien race from Mars who used ray-beam weaponry from their ships in their single-minded conquest of planet Earth. 

  4. Oahspe: A New Bible is a book published in 1882, purporting to contain ‘new revelations’ from ‘…the Embassadors of the angel hosts of heaven prepared and revealed unto man in the name of Jehovih…’ It was produced by an American dentist, John Ballou Newbrough (1828–1891), who reported it to have been written by automatic writing, making it one of a number of 19th-century spiritualist works attributed to that practice.

    Oahspe comprises a series of related interior books chronicling earth and its heavenly administrations, as well as setting forth teachings for modern times.“

    Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, “Oahspe: A New Bible,” accessed March 2, 2016. 

  5. Pat: adj: Simple and somewhat glib or unconvincing 

  6. Long before Dave Grohl, “The term foo fighter was used by Allied aircraft pilots in World War II to describe various UFOs or mysterious aerial phenomena seen in the skies over both the European and Pacific theaters of operations…. Formally reported from November 1944 onwards, witnesses often assumed that the foo fighters were secret weapons employed by the enemy.

    Etymology: The nonsense word “foo” emerged in popular culture during the early 1930s, first being used by cartoonist Bill Holman who peppered his Smokey Stover fireman cartoon strips with “foo” signs and puns.

    The term foo was borrowed from Bill Holman’s Smokey Stover by a radar operator in the 415th Night Fighter Squadron, Donald J. Meiers, who it is agreed by most 415th members gave the foo fighters their name. Meiers was from Chicago and was an avid reader of Bill Holman’s strip which was run daily in the Chicago Tribune. Smokey Stover’s catch phrase was “where there’s foo, there’s fire”. In a mission debriefing on the evening November 27, 1944, Fritz Ringwald, the unit’s S-2 Intelligence Officer, stated that Meiers and Ed Schleuter had sighted a red ball of fire that appeared to chase them through a variety of high-speed maneuvers. Fritz said that Meiers was extremely agitated and had a copy of the comic strip tucked in his back pocket. He pulled it out and slammed it down on Fritz’s desk and said, “… it was another one of those fuckin’ foo fighters!” and stormed out of the debriefing room.

    According to Fritz Ringwald, because of the lack of a better name, it stuck. And this was originally what the men of the 415th started calling these incidents: “Fuckin’ Foo Fighters.” In December 1944, a press correspondent from the Associated Press in Paris, Bob Wilson, was sent to the 415th at their base outside of Dijon, France to investigate this story. It was at this time that the term was cleaned up to just “foo fighters”. The unit commander, Capt. Harold Augsperger, also decided to shorten the term to foo fighters in the unit’s historical data.“

    Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, “Foo fighter,” accessed March 2, 2016, 

  7. Speaking specifically of the twin protocols of tuning and challenging that Carla developed; practices that qualitatively evolved Don’s experiment in reception of UFO messages. There was a significant enough increase in the quality of the channeling as a result of Carla’s development and refinement of the procedure—coupled with her natural abilities in channeling—that Don began actually preserving the cassette recordings of the channelings from thence onward. The Transcript Library to this day begins more or less at the time that Carla, twelve years after Don’s experiment began, took up channeling at Don’s request. 

  8. Throughout her life Carla emphasized the absolute necessity of working with a group, preferably with an experienced senior channel, and using the protocols of tuning and challenging.

    Carla discusses these practices in the Channeling Intensive Cycle 1 and in her book A Channeling Handbook

  9. Seals are, and historically have been, common in the UK.