Carla was interviewed by telephone on Wynn Free’s Monday Night Conference Call program on BBS Radio on Monday, November 15, 2010.

All right, we’re now on the air. Everything is working except Carla’s not here. So while we’re waiting for Carla, we’re going to have Chris sing, “Come On Baby Light My Fire.”

I don’t think so, Mister Wynn.


I could though …


I know that it would be untrue, I know that I would be a liar …

Okay, I see now. I do, man! I do have a connection with them.

Chris sent me an email that he liked Jim Morrison, so beware of the emails you send me, guys, because you never know what’s going to happen. Anyone else besides Chris have a favorite song?

Well, I think I’m finally here.

Oh, Carla!

Yes. Really! This is the third phone [I have tried to use!] I tell you, all my phones are suddenly toast. But at any rate, we have persevered, and I’m with you.

Well, you know what, because you were late, Chris Blair in Tennessee … Tennessee, right?


I’m in Kentucky.

Chris did his debut of Come on Baby Light My Fire.

Oh wow! I can remember walking down the streets of Cambridge in 1968 and listening to that for the first time.

Did you? All right!

[Sigh] Yes, long time ago! We’re talking oldies, Wynn.

Chris, are you that old?

I am. You’re just a youngster and you heard it from your parents, right?

Who, me?

Hey, Wynn, there are a lot of similarities. You know, obviously I’m not famous, but there are a lot of similarities if you look into it.

Well, let me ask you something: Do you have a lot of girlfriends?

Yes, well … you know … I have.

Well, it’s a good step in the right direction. Okay, well we’re going to mute everybody.

I had one [girlfriend] that actually looked just like Pam Morrison …

Jim Morrison’s wife?

Yeah. Her name is Rebecca.

Listen—you have to clear yourself of the decadent side of Jim Morrison. Okay?


You’re doing a good job though, right?

Yeah, things are going good.

Okay, we have Carla here and Wynn here and Terry.

Just for a little backup information: the general theme of our call is what I call interdimensional communication: communication of intelligence in other realms or voices that identify themselves as intelligence in other realms. Those of you who have been regular listeners on the call know that Terry channels a voice that has identified itself as the Council of Elohim, and Carla currently channels a voice that identifies itself as Q’uo. [How do I pronounce that?]


Q’uo, Q’uo, how do I remember that? Coo, coo like a bird—Q’uo.

There’s a phenomenon of having voices come through—but I think far greater than the phenomenon is the kind of information that comes through in these sessions.

Carla is most well known for a series of sessions she did in the period of 1981 to 1983, I believe—one hundred and something sessions.


106. Okay. She was in a channeling group, and she had a partner that was asking her questions named Don Elkins, who happened to be a very smart, Ph.D., University Professor. He asked a question that was very deep one time, and unexpectedly a voice came through and said, “I am Ra.” Carla went unconscious, never remembered what she said, and this voice spoke through her, and for the next few years there was a series of very profound questions and answers—that many people [have] read. It’s probably one of the most influential channeled sources on the planet.

Carla maintains a very high degree of discipline in terms of how she sets up for the tuning, the purity and the intent. And, she’s influenced tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of people with her work. I’m always honored to have her once a month on our Monday calls.

Terry and I are kind of newbies. We probably make all kinds of mistakes by Carla’s criteria. But we have a voice that comes through that says they are the Elohim, The Council of Elohim. It’s interesting, because in both of these cases, the voices identify themselves as group souls—huge group souls—and in one case the Ra Group are explaining themselves to be graduates of this realm, that they had physical embodiments, not on Planet Earth, but on another planet, and they went through a series of embodiments, and finally graduated.

And, when they graduate, they continued their evolution and eventually they ended up as a group soul, those that choose to, because there is free will.

The Ra group claims itself to be very closely involved with the evolution of Planet Earth and what they call a dimensional shift, graduation or harvest—different names indicating that we’re in this very special period right now, and that there’s something happening in this period that never happened before in the recorded history, and even the non-recorded history, of mankind, at least for 75,000 years.

Interestingly enough, of course, I wrote the book about The Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce and the source that spoke through David Wilcock, described the same episode happening right now—this graduation. While I was writing that book I had a woman by the name of Daphne spontaneously start communicating with me [by channeling], and this voice said, “Please ask us questions,” and that was my first encounter with the Elohim.

I asked all these questions about the book I was writing, and about the graduation and she didn’t know the answers. I got the same story through Daphne, and then through Terry. It’s a really interesting phenomenon that four different people that have been involved in my life—Carla, not directly of course. She did all this in the 1980’s—but four different people have all come up with the same story through channeling that says we’re in a dimensional shift, a 75,000 cycle end.

In Terry’s case, the voice that spoke—I say “the voice that identifies itself” because, you know, when you’re channeling, if a voice comes in and says it’s Joe or John or Ra or the Elohim, those are not easy things to validate. How do you know it’s a group soul?

So the only way I can figure those things out is by watching the impact over time and seeing if it’s congruent. Of course, in Carla’s case, over thirty some-odd years now, the information of all her channelings has been 100% congruent, I think. I’m not a complete scholar of your material. Is there 100% congruency, or are there any times where they’ve contracted [themselves]?

About 99%.

99%, thank you. In my channelings there’s probably a pretty high congruency … and so if this is true, it’s a rather important period, because unbeknownst to us we’re here on Earth and we’re dealing with our day-to-day issues being alive on Earth and our physical embodiments.

Most people don’t think of themselves as coming back many, many times—thousands of times—because [they are] so hooked to the experience of this realm. Even [when] people that have adopted the idea of reincarnation, most people are not aware that right now, in this lifetime, they are making a decision as to the dispensation of their future lifetimes and that there’s going to be an unusual event where, instead of Earth going on as normal, Earth itself is going through a graduation to what’s called “fourth density.” The way I describe it, the Earth is moving into the fourth chakra, and people know that, understand that it’s the heart chakra. In order for humans to continue on the upgraded Earth, their heart chakra has to be open; otherwise, their energy field no longer fits into the field of the [fourth-density] Earth and they become a cycle-repeater. They have to start and repeat the lessons of the third chakra on another planet in another star system.

As I was studying Carla’s material, one thing that kind of blew me away, that struck me [was] the magnitude of the impact and the power of these group souls, [which] is hard to fathom from the human level. In the Rueckert/Ra channelings, the thing that bowled me over was that [Ra reported that] there were two planets in our solar system that lost life—all life was destroyed. One was Mars, and one was Maldek. In Mars’ case, the planet continued, but in Maldek’s case, the planet exploded and turned into asteroids.

The Ra Group moved souls from those planets to Earth to continue their incarnations. Well, if you have a group soul that moves entities, beings, like you and I, from one planet to another, that is someone to get to know. That’s someone [where it would help] to understand how they operate. You want to be on their good side! And you want to know the rules of the game. I believe your material says that in this separation of souls, the Ra Group is a major “administrator” of this event. Now I’ve said all that and I better make sure I didn’t make any mistakes, so let me turn it over to Carla to correct me.

Well, thank you, Wynn. You’re basically correct in everything, and you’re not the first person today that’s commented on how Jim and I and L/L Research are too polished. We’re working on a download project for our store of the original Ra sessions, and in the request from the guy that is the web-guy at, he said, “Could you ask Jim and Carla not to make it too polished, just leave it imperfect because people like the feeling that they’re really there.” I told him, “That’s a heck of a left-handed compliment, to say that we’re just not imperfect enough.”

That’s why you like my show.

Right, well, I like your show because you’re one of the good guys, Wynn.

Well, thank you.

You’re doing the very best you can to serve others and to put some new ideas out there, or actually old ideas that keep coming around again, and trying to help people wake up and experience what’s happening right now. So I’m all for helping you out. In fact, I hope I can.

I think that whether the Confederation entities that I channel are those of Ra, or those of Q’uo, or some of the early ones that I channeled, [who] are also Confederation entities, the stories are always and ever the same. The themes are the same: we are all one; what we do affects everybody; what everybody does affects us; we’re all part of the same dance. That dance is a dance of love. This density, the third density, is the Density of Choice. We’re basically trying to decide—as Bob Dylan said, “You gotta serve somebody”—shall we serve others or shall we serve ourselves? That’s the basic choice. That’s what the last 75,000 years has all been about.

Shall we serve others? In serving others you can’t help but serve yourself because what you put out comes back around a thousand-fold. And all of a sudden, when you serve others, you’re drowning in a sea of love that’s returning to you.

Or shall you try to arrange your universe to serve yourself, so that everybody around you is sort of a “pawn” and you use them and manipulate them for your use? You have influence, you have power. This is the kind of thinking would go to service to self.

Notice that the Confederation never says “good guys, bad guys, positive, negative,” they just say service to others, service to self—make your choice. Well, service to others happens to be the choice that I’ve made and the choice about which those of Ra and those of Q’uo and all the other Confederation entities like Hatonn and Oxal and so forth, are talking. If you want to find out about service-to- self information, it’s out there—look for something that is an “oid”—you know, the insectoids or whatever-“oids”—and start reading what they suggest, and it may well be service-to -self information. Information on both sides of this is available.

The Confederation entities are attempting to help those with their spiritual journeys who have decided that they want to serve others and that they want to keep their hearts open and move through the densities in a positive sense and in the sense of service to others.

I personally think it’s a dandy choice, because it is the one that opens up all of the choices to you. The most choices that you can have of what to do next are found in positive, service-to- others, fourth density. That’s what I’m hoping for. I’m hoping that when I walk those steps of light and stop when the sunlight is just bright enough, that I’ll be in fourth density and I’ll get to see that drop-down menu of enhanced choices.

There’s so much more information in fourth-density light, and that’s really what’s happening now. We’re so close to the dawn of fourth density that the sun’s really up, and we’re getting interpenetrated in third-density Earth with fourth-density light. And fourth-density light carries a ton of additional information. It carries the truth. It moves you beyond the veil.

So we are, at this late date, dealing with everything we didn’t want to deal with up until now. Everything that is in our shadow side we are looking at now, and we’re having to acknowledge our full self and to redeem that self, and ask it to serve the light. That’s what’s happening right now. It’s very difficult, because third-density light is waning, and there isn’t a whole lot of time left to make this choice. And it’s a simple choice. You can do it in a heartbeat and you can change your vibration, your frequency, to the point where you’re a whole new you. I think you got it Wynn, you got it.

I want to say something there. I am sure everyone on this line says, “All right, I want to be service to others.” Everyone wants to be. You know in the service-to-self [polarity], if you’ve had a number of lifetimes of service to self, it’s not such an easy choice to switch; because when you attempt to switch, you still have the habit patterns of all your lifetimes, and in fact, they come up even stronger when you try to switch. So I wanted to add that caveat, because for some people—there’s no judgment here—there’s no judgment—theoretically they can graduate either way. I’m not sure how that works, but theoretically a service-to-self person gets to go, also. I’ve tried to understand this in a way that I could conceptualize it, and the way that I have come to conceptualize it myself, is that every being in the universe is positioned somewhere in this huge matrix, and service-to-self can go up as high as fifth density—isn’t that correct, Carla?

Oh, that’s correct—the problem they have is not in the Density of Love or the Density of Wisdom, they don’t run into problems [there]. The negative entities do not run into problems until they hit the Density of Unity. Because in the Density of Unity, all the positive and negative dynamics become unified and harmonized, and all of a sudden they have to face the fact, for the first time, that the heart is real, love is real and they’re going to have to acknowledge it.

It’s a crushing blow to a negatively oriented soul, but, it’s what is, and if they want to progress—and, of course, everybody wants to progress—they have to swallow it. So, you get a lot of people jumping ship from negative polarity to positive polarity in sixth density; and of course they become the strongest service- to-others advocates out there, because of the psychology of making that flip.

The newbie is always the most enthusiastic member. So you get people that are absolutely chock-full of love, because they’ve stored up all this energy and then they’ve released it in the switch. The conversion is very powerful. I think you can see that right here on Earth when someone who has not believed in anything all of a sudden has a moment of epiphany and takes on Christianity or Judaism or Islam or Buddhism or something; one of the religious systems, and all of a sudden they’re converted, and nobody is more enthusiastic than a new convert.

That’s what happens in the Density of Unity. But for the Density of Love, and the Density of Wisdom, which really takes in a whole lot of time as we would understand time, we go our separate ways. Positive polarity and negative polarity have separate lessons. That’s the Confederation cosmology of it, anyway.

One way that I look at service to self is, a being’s positioned somewhere in the matrix that doesn’t know how to get energy from the things that are behind it, Divine source. So it believes it has to get energy from things below it. Do you follow? So it may not even be aware that it’s making that choice, because it’s gone through so many lifetimes and the chances are it has so many lifetimes, where all it’s known was, “I’ve got to get energy from something below me.” Then that works all the way down the line from a simple human on this planet [to] very exalted beings, I say the word “exalted,” but exalted in the negative, exalted in the high negative, because it’s focused on what’s below them.

In the Ra channelings, it spoke about the Logos, and I was wondering, do you think the Logos is Ra’s term for the Elohim? Because supposedly the Elohim are the original break-off, and we’ve had many conversations with them how they created this realm.

No, actually I don’t. I think the Logos is before manifestation. I think that in the cosmology of the Confederation, the first thing, the only thing that’s not distorted from ultimate reality, is the un-manifest mystery of the one infinite Creator, which the Ra Group has sometimes called “intelligent infinity.”

After that, you have the first distortions of the Law of One, which are free will—and by this first distortion the Creator chooses to know itself, and so it projects itself into the world of ideas, let us say, the metaphysical, or time/space continuum. That is not manifest; that is an idea.

The Gospel of John begins, “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the word was God.” And, that Word, in Greek, which is the original language of the Apostle John, is “Logos.” I believe it was in that precise way that Ra used the word Logos as the idea of unconditional love.

Now, where the Elohim come in is after the second distortion, which is the Logos, and the third distortion, which is light. Light is that manifester. Light creates the illusions, the nested illusions of all the densities. I believe it is at that point that those entities—which are sometimes called angels, archangels, seraphim, cherubim, all of that—come in and form councils to create, and each sun has it’s Council of Creators. I believe that is where the Elohim and the angels come in. It’s pretty close to the original Logos, but it isn’t the Creator and it isn’t the Logos—it is several distortions removed from the original Mystery, which I think will always be a mystery. Even to those of Ra it’s a mystery.

Right, that would be what we refer to as the one infinite Creator, yes?

Right. Or, the one great original Thought. They used the word “Thought,” the word “Logos.” [Both are] determinedly abstract. I would probably link it, in terms of what we’ve run into before in the furnishings of our mind, with Plato’s “World of Ideals.”

Okay. Terry, are you there?

I’m here.

You better not be so quiet, okay? Do you have any thoughts on all of this? I shouldn’t say that, that’s taking your free will away. You can be quiet if you want to, but I want to give you the opportunity to throw in your, I won’t say two cents, because it’s worth more than two cents. Never mind. Just, go ahead.

I appreciated hearing the information about the Logos and the sun and as these are some of the things that we had touched upon, but not very deeply.

Is that it?


Okay. Thank you.

You’ve got to appreciate brevity when you find it, especially after a “blah, blah, blah” like me.

I took something out of The Ra Material, and I thought I was just going to read this. Those of you who have never heard The Ra Material, you can hear how they describe [angelic beings] and a little bit about the structural way that they expression information. I think this is from Book Three:

The first level of planetary is that which may be called “angelic.” This type of guardian includes the mind/body/spirit complex totality or higher self of an entity, and those inner-plane entities which then have attracted this entity with inner seeking.

What they are saying there is that a human has a higher self, and that their inner-plane entities or other beings are attracted to your higher self because of your inner seeking. In other words, as you start to look, reach and try to find truth, or whatever word you would choose, truth or higher planes of existence, that idea automatically starts to attract entities to support you—invisible entities, spirit entities, because of your seeking. Remember that one Carla?

Yes, I do and I can attest to it from real life experience as well. Usually I couldn’t; I’m not psychic at all, but in 1971 I was at a very successful materialization séance held by Reverend James Tingley at Anderson, Indiana. I had been to probably a dozen séances that were bogus, and this one was quite real. I collected a couple of angels at that séance who just said they were drawn to me and they just asked permission, “Could I be with you? Could I find lost things for you? Could I love you and help you feel safe?” So I said yes, please do come with me.

A lot of times if someone writes for healing, I’ll ask them if they want an angel. If they say yes, I’ll ask one of my angels to go, and ask, “What’s your name?” so that I can tell the person. I’ll get the impression of a name, so I’ll write and say, “By the way I’m sending you an angel whose name is George, and he won’t be able to help you unless you ask for him. So please ask for George and thank George for his help. He wants to love you and make you feel safe.”

So many people write me back and talk about the healings that they’ve experienced, and the experiences that they’ve had with their angels, I know for sure that it works, because I’ve experienced it myself and other people have experienced it at my suggestion. Terry, did you have some kind of experience, also?

No, but she’s going to, I think. Terry, isn’t that a great idea?

I don’t know because when I’m talking to the Elohim they tell me that they’re non-linear, and they can work with many people at one time, and they can be with a person and have a repertoire of healing frequencies, and tools that they can bring the individual.

So that’s similar to the angelic thing; however, [in] the Elohim there’s multiple of them, multiple energies—they have a division of Grace, and so it’s not just one singular angelic being that comes. So that’s what I’m used to.

Yeah. I think it would be the difference between dealing with the angelic energy at the beginning of the vine, not the root necessarily, but as it comes out of the ground where all the branches are coming off of it, and there’s consciousness there that is of a higher order than say, the energy at the end of one of those branches which would be the kind of angel that I was talking about when I said I send people angels. It’s not the same order. There are many orders of angels and there is a hierarchy there. It’s not, “Oh, well I’m better than you are,” it’s, “I come from the Creator with fewer steps; with fewer distortions. There’s less distortion in the angelic energy that you can channel, Terry, than there would be any particular angelic consciousness of which I would be aware; say the angels that flock around me in my home.

When I first came here, to this home, in 1984, the first thing that astounded me was, I went upstairs and the sunlight coming in from the back yard into the big windows across the back of the hall was full of angels, and I was just stunned. I sat there on a piece of furniture that was plopped in the hall, you know, I was so glad I just sat there and I drank it in. I think that when we’re saying the word “angel” it’s sort of like saying the word … anything that has orders of magnitude. I know, a person in incarnation is like one of my angels. We are at the end of the vine of our soul stream. If you go back to the soul stream it’s a much bigger self than we in incarnation could possibly be, because it involves all of our experiences through all of our incarnations, in all densities.

Yeah, Terry, your angelic energy that you’re able to channel is much less distorted than any particular angel that you would talk to because it’s a group energy as opposed to a singular energy. Make sense?

Yes. You described it exactly the way I see it.

Now for you guys that are listening tonight, there are some real keys here. Inner seeking and asking for angels; asking for help—inner-plane, positive help, because these are two women that are directly experienced in how that works, and sharing it. It works if you do it. Now, in the next paragraph—in the same Ra reading it says:

The second class of angels who ward this process are those of the Confederation.

Carla, to ward means to monitor, correct?

Monitor and guard.

Monitor and guard, okay. Now the first level, remember, is the inner-plane entity. The second class is those of the Confederation who “have the honor/duty of standing in the small places of the edges of the steps of love light, so that those entities being harvested—I like to use the word graduated—will not, no matter how confused or unable to make contact with their higher selves, stumble and fall away for any reason other than the strength of the light. These Confederation entities catch those who stumble, set them aright, so that they may continue into the light.”

Now I think that’s amazing. How would you interpret that in really simple language?

Well, I was talking about the steps of light earlier and I think it is pretty literal. I think that in the graduation process—of course, this is all in energy-bodies, this is not in the physical body—when we leave the physical body at the time of entering larger life, we leave in the indigo-ray body. For the purposes of graduation, we move into the violet-ray body, which is a read-out of our entire energy system. In that, we walk these steps of light and each step is a specific, accurately monitored frequency of light. It becomes denser with light, denser with information, on every step, by a small increment. So you keep walking these steps of light, into the sunlight, and when the sun gets too strong for you, you stop. If you stopped in third density, by your own preference, by your own needs, you’re going to have to repeat third density again, because you can’t take fourth-density light yet.

Those who have lived in their open hearts even [for] a day are already changed to the point where it’s very possible they could graduate. So I don’t agree totally with you, Wynn. It’s hard to break habits, it’s hard to make new habits, but it’s not impossible at all. A lot of people have done it. So I think it’s good to encourage people to go ahead, break the habits of thinking about yourself first and others second. Make the habit of keeping your heart open and asking yourself, “Where is the love in this moment?” and every time that you fall back, well, pick yourself up and start over again. We have all the time in the world for rehearsal.

Whenever it is that we graduate, we’re walking these steps of light, and if we have been able to hold a frequency in this incarnation which is loving, then we’re going to be able to walk right into fourth-density light.

Under no circumstances is there any judgment. There is no Creator that frowns and says, “Oh well, you’re going to have to go to hell.” There is no hell. It’s a wonderful cosmology in that you’re responsible for yourself, but you have all the time in the world, literally. You have this try at graduating third density, and if you don’t make it you repeat.

It’s like school. We’re in the third grade in the school of souls, and if we get to the end of the year and we haven’t been able to make that choice and we can’t graduate in the positive sense and we can’t graduate in the service-to-self sense, we just can’t graduate. We haven’t made our choice. Okay, well we’ll have 75,000 more years of McDonald’s, that’s alright—and, McJobs and McLives—you know, we’ll get a grip. We have all the time that we need. So I love that. I love the fact that the Confederation entities are standing there to make sure that nobody gets lost.

It seems to me that what they’re saying is, no way do you have to be perfect to graduate.

That’s right.

You need to have enough light that they can grab you, pull you through so to speak and they are guarding and monitoring the whole process so no mistakes happen.

The third group watching over this process is that group that you call the Guardians.

You’ve never channeled the Guardians, did you Carla?

I’m not sure—I don’t believe so; I think that the Guardians are not necessarily Confederation. They might be angels; they might be Confederation; they might be those energies involved with the Logos on this planet, which is actually a sub-Logos. They take their Logos-word from the Creator.

Carla, I’ve always wondered: could you say something about how the densities change as you go from third to fourth and up?

I could; actually I’ve had experience with that that is very eye-opening. The first thing that people think about third density going into fourth is that it’s all going to take place on this one planet. That’s actually not true.

The densities are nested in this planetary influence. The Confederation always speaks of planetary influences rather than planets, because in each density the planet is there, it looks the same. But third density is a density of physicality. It’s a density of chemicals. It’s a density of our bodies as chemical distilleries.

Fourth density is a density that is metaphysical in nature; and it could be compared to the inner planes in terms of its make-up. So, it interpenetrates, just as first and second density interpenetrate third density, so that we see first density. We see the rocks, we see the powers: the air, the fire, the rain, the earth. We see second density’s animals and plants. But we’re actually on a third-density Earth, and so we are seeing that which includes all of it. In fourth density we see third, second and first densities, but we see them from a metaphysical point of view. They’re all energy. It’s energy bodies. It’s an energy planet. It’s not the same planet. Third density doesn’t have to clear out to make room for fourth density.

Carla, we’re running over as usual, so is Carla’s website. Give her a call, she might send an angel your way. Thank you all for listening. I’m going to get you in trouble, you better get some more angels—a battalion. Thank you, Terry. We’ll see you all Wednesday when we answer questions with Terry. Thank you so much.