Hi, everyone. This is Jim McCarty welcoming you to the L/L Research Podcast, In the Now, Episode #38. L/L Research is a nonprofit organization dedicated to freely sharing spiritually-oriented information and fostering community, and towards this end has two websites: the archive website, LLResearch.org and the community website, Bring4th.org. During each episode, those of us at L/L Research form a panel to consider questions from spiritual seekers. Our panel consists of Gary Bean, director of L/L Research, and Austin Bridges, assistant director of L/L Research, along with myself, husband to the late Carla L. Rueckert, scribe for the Ra contact and president of L/L Research; each of us a devoted seeker and student of the Law of One. We will be discussing questions that are sent to us from spiritual seekers around the globe. Our replies to these questions are not final or authoritative; instead, they are generally subjective interpretations stemming from our own studies and life experiences. We intend this podcast to be a platform of discussion as we consider questions that often challenge us to articulate our own perspective. We always ask each who listens to exercise his own discernment and listen for her own resonance in determining what is true. If you would like to submit a question for this show, please do so; our humble podcast relies on your questions. You may either send an email to or go to www.LLResearch.org/podcast for further instructions. Again, I’m Jim McCarty and we are embarking on a new episode of L/L Research’s weekly podcast, In the Now. Is everybody here and ready to roll?

I’m here and ready to roll.

And so am I.

All right. Well, our first question comes from Lily via email and the short version is, ’How do battles in the fourth density affect us? And the background for that are two quotes from the Ra contact. [The] first one for reference comes from 25.6. In this one, Ra describes a battle between the Confederation and the Orion group; in Question #3, Ra has this to say about the battle:

It has not been fruitful for either side. The only consequence which has been helpful is a balancing of the energies available to this planet so that these energies have less necessity to be balanced in this space/time, thus lessening the chances of planetary annihilation.

In 35.8, Ra describes how a fourth-density entity decided to exchange with the one known as Abraham Lincoln as a walk-in:

This being was concerned with the battle between the forces of light and the forces of darkness which have been waged in fourth density for many of your years ... . The planetary energies at this time were at what seemed to this entity to be at a critical point ... . This entity ... went forward into ... the battle for the light ... . [in my thoughts, to avert a danger to the development of democracy, and] for healing of a rupture in the concept of freedom.

These descriptions indicate a direct relationship of what’s going on in the fourth density and in our third density. Ra seems to allude to the possibility that before the inpouring, spiral planetary energies enter our density. They have been “processed” in the fourth density in some fashion. Then they carry the results (at least in terms of ‘balancing of the energies’) and come to us. Now it’s our turn to continue the process. Thus, if the energies are more balanced in the fourth density, we would have less of a chance to make a fatal disaster. Conceivably, the reverse is also true. Could you comment on this topic?’ Austin?

Okay. Well, I can try to comment. I can’t say too much, but this would be a great question to ask during a channeling, I think, is the implications of how we are affected by these external energies. [It] seems to be pretty important, and Lily seems to be working with the idea that these energies that Ra is talking about are affected before they get to us, and then we are in turn affected by them. And I can only offer sort of an alternative perspective, but I can’t really say which one is more correct. Perhaps the energies available to this planet are directly affected by the entities that are on this planet. In other words, we humans, through our actions, mentalities, and thoughts, have an effect on what energy is “made available” to us. In this sense, the energies instreaming from the Logos aren’t automatically distorted and in need of balancing, but rather are made available in a fashion that each entity unconsciously sort of draws into our planet. We could say that higher-density beings have an effect on this in a sense, as Ra talks about the attempted influence of Orion and the Confederation. They sort of plant seeds that may sprout into imbalanced or confused mentalities, and particularly the Orion seeds of separation. And then the battle in time/space Ra talks about might then help our planet to “process” these energies that we, as humans, are sort of directly influencing already. Energies which, if not helped to be balanced by this battle, may manifest in greater expressions of confusion or separation. I do think that we, as humans, are one with our planet in more ways than we realize, and how we use our free will has an effect on society as a whole. And then society has an effect on the planet, in not just physical ways, but also metaphysical ways. And I have a sense that the planet, completely free of humans on its surface with our free will, would have perfectly balanced energies. I don’t see how a planet could just have innately imbalanced energies that need to be played out in this fourth-density battle before they get to us. So in that sense, maybe it’s more of a reciprocal relationship than simply us being offered the energy by the Logos, and perhaps it’s more of a cycle than just a one-way system. But I’m really just working with my own intuition here, sort of informed by the Law of One and other esoteric texts. But it’s not something I can say with any real authority—just kind of sharing my thoughts. But I do think that Lily’s conclusion on direct relationship with higher densities is sort of perceptive, and it’s likely part of the cycle in total. But I see more of a back and forth rather than a one-way relationship. How about you, Gary?

Likewise, I would have to venture into the realm of speculation, spring-boarding off of intuition—hopefully informed intuition, rather. And so I am not aware of anywhere, in particular, where Ra describes energy moving from higher densities to lower densities per se. Certainly, higher-density entities interact with lower-density entities, and maybe energy moves via those conduits. But otherwise, they do describe a situation of cosmic inpourings coming into the planet’s energetic web, and then into individual mind/body/spirit complexes. But they don’t describe precisely through what channels, what processes, that cosmic energy comes. Does it come from seventh, to sixth, to fifth, to fourth, to third density? Does this come directly from the Logos? Is this just coming from elsewhere in the creation on the third-density level? I’m not sure. One idea I had for why the thought-forms, time/space, war, or battle in fourth density may help balance the energies here in third density and may make planetary annihilation less likely in third density is due simply to the fact that the fourth-density entities may be occupied—specifically, the service-to-self entities—instead of being completely free to wreak their havoc (from my perspective) on planet earth, and as Austin was saying, sow the seeds of separation and fan the flames of fear and hatred and so forth and exacerbate bellicosity. Instead of being free to do that, they are sort of tied down with this battle where positive entities are defending the planet and serving as a sort of guardian thereby blunting the full impact of the service-to-self entities’ energies that would otherwise be given or offered to this planet. It seems logical, but at the same time, it seems there is something more to the metaphysics of what they’re doing in fourth density and how it affects us, and I don’t quite understand that. So, Jim, how about you?

Yeah, this is an area that’s going to be pretty speculative, I think, for all of us. In general, I think Ra has said in the past that there are seven earths. There are four in activation now, including the fourth density. Ra said that the planet itself is in fourth density, but that the material of the planet itself is quite confused due to the variety of social memory complexes embedded in its consciousness. Therefore, it shall be fetched at some inconvenience. Now, that suggests that there is some significant outside influence willing to work with the planet and the population of the planet in order to help it be a more harmonious harvest, which conflicts a little bit with what has been said before about each of the densities’ planet is discrete from each other density. But when you consider the battle of Armageddon (I believe is what this battle between the fourth-density positive and negative is called), it started I think about 3,300 years ago. So that does have an effect upon planetary possibilities. Ra said there’d more likely be guerilla-type warfare rather than the planetary annihilation, which sounds like a real good thing to me.

But it also suggests that there is some outside influence from the Confederation that is here, not only to (as Ra did during the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki) keep the mind/body/spirits intact, but they also, at that time, allowed the bombing to occur. And, in general, Don asked another question: “So, then, you would allow such to occur but these spirits remained intact?” and Ra said, “Yes, that’s correct.” But it seems like this battle of the fourth-density entities is being fought for one purpose, at least, that is to reduce that likelihood of annihilation. As far as the effect or the likelihood of the walk-in that took Abraham Lincoln’s body, or other walk-ins, Ra said that was extremely rare. I doubt if that is some phenomenon that’s going to have a large impact on the planet. Although, as the president, this walk-in was able to successfully bring the civil war to a close and attempted to heal the wounds of the battle with some wonderful gestures and the freeing of slaves and the Emancipation Proclamation, the attempt to heal the wounds between the North and the South. I believe historians have noticed a significant difference in Abraham Lincoln’s speeches around 1850 or ‘53 when his body was occupied by the walk-in and those after. So there could well be large effects upon the planet because of walk-ins, but since it’s such a rare phenomenon, I would guess that most of the effect will come from the supposed battle of Armageddon, and I can’t quite imagine what it would be like to be ‘fetched with some inconvenience’. Any of you guys have an idea about fetching earth? Gary?

‘Fetched with some inconvenience’: is that pertaining to harvest?


The harvest will be fetched with some inconvenience—

No. The planet.

The planet.

Yeah, I wish I had the quote right here. I’m taking this out of my lecture that I’m going to be giving in two weeks here in Louisville, and the exact quote is:

This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration. Its material is quite confused due to the society memory complexes embedded in its consciousness. It has not made an easy transition to the vibrations which beckon. Therefore, it will be fetched with some inconvenience.

Yeah, why the verb “fetched” there? That’s really unusual.

Fetched sort of implies like it’s brought forth, and it’s something that will need to be brought forth, but the inconveniences I can’t imagine. I hope it’s not too inconvenient.

Well, the inconveniences have already started as far as Ra said.


By whom?

How much more inconvenient it will be, well, who knows?

By whom, though? The fetching implies that there’s some act or some subject there.

Who else could it be but the Confederation?

Yeah and you know, they (Ra) calls them the harvesters. So they’re the ones doing the fetching then?

The entities from the octave beyond ours are the ones that provide the light and those exquisite disseminations of form. So I don’t know if they would have anything to do with it. I mean, it’s a fascinating possibility to think about.

Yes, it certainly is. Not one whose mystery I plumb.

I think that it might be a hint in here. Ra says it’s not made an easy transition to the vibrations which beckon. So maybe they kind of mean that it’s the vibrations that are beckoning it that will fetch it. Like the vibrations are sort of what are bringing it forth and it will be fetched by those vibrations with inconvenience.


Or, maybe the release of the heat from the earth is apparently what’s causing the great inconveniences as far as geophysical weather. Thousands of years of warfare and the anger, and the heat of the anger, and destruction and hostility has actually seeped into the mantle—the surface of the planet—and that heat has to be released in order for the planet to be in harmony with the fourth density. So it may have more to do with the heat being released and how it will be released and maybe some outside help helping the heat to be released in a way that is less annihilatory, as far as geophysical as well as nuclear warfare.

Yeah, it may be.

I believe Ra also included, in the inconveniences, the likelihood of some crazy presidential elections coming in our future.

Oh, really?

As one manifestation.


I don’t remember that, but I believe.

Another thought occurred to me. I was listening to Jim that (and this is probably a really bad analogy), but maybe if it’s like some of humanity’s aggressive tendencies are kind of funneled into and syphoned off by team sports: they have sort of a proxy to do, in a safe way, to perform some theatrical play of bellicosity. And maybe, likewise, the fourth-density battle serves in a similar regard—that fourth density battle syphons off energies that, were they not syphoned off, would probably manifest into a larger scale war on this planet. I don’t know.

It’s a thought.

It is a thought.

So they’re really just playing basketball in time/space.

That’s basically what I’m saying, yes.

And they’re really emphasizing the handshake line after the game’s over.



Okay. Any further thoughts on Lily’s first question there?

I don’t think so.

No, not from me.

Well, I think we were valiant in our attempt to [answer Lily’s question]. The impossible dream is what we were doing here, but we do thank you, Lily, for your question. It certainly was a thoughtful one. Okay, I think we’ve got just about enough time to consider Billy via Bring4th. He has a very short question; it’s a very poignant one: ‘How do you get through a period of emotional agony and stagnation that doesn’t seem to end even though years have passed?’ Gary, do you have any thoughts there?

Thoughts, definitely; no answers. I don’t think there’s a good answer from one human to another, but the thought that was foremost in my mind when considering your question, Billy, was the concept of faith. And then I got into a contemplation on the nature of faith and its function and how it works out in human life. And it seems that faith is a faculty; it is a something that you almost might say it gets you around your catalyst, or it punches a hole through the catalyst. When you seem to be in a sealed, airtight container from which no amount of effort or force or explosives can free you—even if that drags on for what you say years, and even if all seems final and over in a particular moment—faith is always there. It’s never not there, no matter how dire the circumstances. And it’s always an ace up your sleeve that can never be exhausted. You can use it and reuse it and use it again. And faith seems to open that tight-fitting container of emotional stagnancy to allow some breathing air to come in, to allow some of that stuck energy to process, to re-open the cut-off self to the greater self. And it may or may not create a change in the outer circumstance, whatever was initially or has been bothering you, but it does strengthen your own heart.

The faculty of faith helps you to bear the seeming weight of your experience. And it helps you; even at [a] minimum, it helps you to survive. And sooner or later it will, and [it] will open the door out of your perception of stagnancy. It will create that way. You, Billy, you are so close to truth. You’ve never actually left truth. You are swimming in it every day, but your perception and experience, of course, tells you otherwise. And faith is the bridge, but typically it must be invoked. Some people perhaps are born faithful or they’ve done such work with faith in past incarnations that they don’t have to think too much about it, but for the lot of us, it needs to be consciously invoked. And another thought that came to mind when considering your situation, about which I know very little: In my own sufferings (and I’ve been in some deep holes) I realize that one of suffering’s greatest tricks is to convince us that it is eternal, that whatever the uncomfortable, or even agonizing state, that it will last forever. You know, your vision is really obscured and cut-off when you’re suffering. You don’t see more than a few inches in front of you and you’re in this cocoon of darkness and pain and you don’t see a future where it’s brighter always. But only the eternal is eternal, and against that, suffering is a passing phenomenon that takes many shapes and forms. So one thought that might help you to consider is that the suffering will end. New chapters await you. New challenges await you. You’ll blink, and not only will this stagnancy be gone, but this life itself will be over. You will blink again, and this life will be a distant memory in your endless string of incarnations and experiences of love. In the meantime, in this moment, while you are here, my encouragement is to continue doing the work. Do your work in the darkness. Do the work in emotional stagnancy, and do the work without being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Keep setting your intention and meditating and studying and self-investigating and serving and so forth, and invoke faith during the process. And one day you may look back and realize, suddenly, that you are no longer in this place of agony. Back to the host.

Very good, Gary; that was very good. I appreciate that. Austin, what do you have to say about it?

Yeah, thank you for that beautiful response to that. I’m really glad that you took a very spiritual approach to this question, because I have more of a personal experience and practical advice to offer and nothing near the level of what you just offered him, Gary. But like you said, Gary, we don’t really know a whole lot about Billy’s situation. It could be a number of things, but what came to my mind was the idea of clinical depression which is incredibly difficult. And when I was younger—when I was a kid, basically—I did go through two years of pretty intense clinical depression. So I have at least somewhat of an experience of years’ long depression like that. And it wasn’t diagnosed, but looking back at the experience, it seems clear to me that it was depression and it probably could have been diagnosed. Even the happy times that I experienced were sort of through a lens of dread, and it was impossible to care about much when no matter what I did or tried to care about, nothing seemed to change the way that I felt. And I can’t really fully explain in words how I got past it, but I can say that it was purely an act of will. It was an experience of random, seeming, serendipity where I just discovered this part of myself that had the strength and ability to crawl out of the hole. And it’s not something that I could direct someone else towards, because I just sort of happened upon this part of myself in the bottom of this pit of despair and realized that this was a person that was capable of all things that any person is capable of, including happiness. And my circumstances in my life didn’t change much at that point, and I wouldn’t say that I became a happy person, but I did manage to find a way out of the darkness by randomly stumbling upon this part of myself while I was sort of wallowing in this despair. So perhaps, hopefully, just knowing that there is this part of you that is currently hidden from your perception that has the strength and the will to grasp that light and allow it to guide you from the darkness will help to know what to look for. And maybe (to touch on Gary’s aspect of faith) having the faith that that part of you is ever-present, even if you can’t see it right now, knowing that it is there and it is available to your perception, if you can just find it that might help, too.

But I think attempting the search for professional help probably should be mentioned, too. If it is clinical depression, I know that professional mental health care is a privilege and it’s not really a right in our society (it should be a right, I think), but if you do have access to it and it is available, I do think that it is something worth looking into if this has been a years’ long issue that nothing seems to penetrate. And I do know some people who have had rather bad experiences with therapists and psychiatrists, but I also know plenty of people in the field that are extremely gifted and empathetic, and people who have been helped greatly by therapists and psychiatrists. Treatment-wise everybody is different. Some people might be aided a lot by exercise or diet changes, but usually when people recommend these things they don’t typically understand how difficult it can be to implement these in the midst of a depression. But keep in mind exercise can be simply walking, and it’s even better if you can walk in an environment that’s rich with nature and has fresh air and lots of colorful stimulus life to look at. Other people, they might find benefit in some sort of alternative medicine, but I don’t know much about alternative medicine to suggest anything in particular. And while I know that it’s sort of not necessarily really accepted in alternative new age communities, but the idea of therapeutic or pharmaceutical treatments could be considered, as well, because I have witnessed drug prescriptions have an incredible effect on somebody who is suffering from depression who is very close to me. And it wasn’t a permanent prescription, and she didn’t need any talking therapy. A psychiatrist just identified a chemical imbalance in her brain and offered a prescription and changes were immediately apparent, at least within a month. And then after a year she was back to her normal self and was able to stop taking the prescription. And these things can work to help people heal and are worth looking into if you think this is sort of a brain chemistry issue. But, you know, none of that is necessarily spiritual or based [on the] Law of One, so I really appreciate Gary’s answer; it might be more what Billy was looking for. That’s about all I have to say. How about you, Jim?

That was really good, Austin. You two did a great job here. I would echo Gary’s suggestion that you continue to express the concept of faith and will, as well—that you continue on. From Ra we discovered that there are no mistakes, that everything does happen for a reason. Something within you is able to survive right now; I mean, you’ve survived for a number of years. Is there a chance this is happening because you need to have a chance to have endurance, to express perseverance, to continue the faith, exercise the will? I would go along with what Austin said about checking out the clinical depression diagnosis, see if it might be some sort of a prescription that might help you out. But [there is] also another possibility. I’ve read a lot of the life between lives episodes that Dr. Michael Newton and Dr. Brian Weiss have shared with folks, and sometimes when they’re in a situation like this—that they just have no idea what’s going on—if they’re able to be hypnotized, then they can go back to before the incarnation to figure out how it was that the choices that they made were made, and what was likely to result from the choices so that you would have a chance then to see how you participated in creating your own environment, your own reality in this life and see what the purpose was. If you had some kind of an idea of what was going on, I think it might make it easier for you to continue on. I mean, obviously something has carried you this far. You have a very strong will, undoubtedly. You have a desire to be better. You see a better future for yourself; you would just like to get there. So I think there’s a number of things that have been suggested today by Gary and Austin and maybe you could add to, you know, the faith and the will and the therapy and prescriptions, the possibility of a regressive hypnosis to see what’s going on. Any last thoughts from either of you, Gary or Austin?

Just that, as often happens between us, I think we each had a complementary piece that, taken together, synthesized into a greater whole. I appreciate listening to you guys. But no, no further thoughts for Billy other than to wish him well and to know that this does have an end.

The idea of hypnotic regression made me have another thought for a suggestion (that Gary has a little bit of experience with, I think) and that is the Stanislav Grof’s Holotropic Breathing Technique, if you’re looking for something that is sort of cathartic, that might sort of jumpstart you into the realization, or jumpstart you out of the depression. Gary, you saw that have an effect on people in similar situations, right?

Yes; would you like me to describe it a little bit?

Yeah, sure.

It’s just that it gave the conscious self access to otherwise unconscious material, which I think one of the goals of any psychotherapeutic process is to get to hidden or buried or repressed material in order to then integrate it and process it and understand it and heal and forgive and so forth. And Stanislav Grof was a researcher in Prague in the 50’s, 60’s, at the time when LSD was first being synthesized and prior to its being made illegal through the culture’s abuse of the substance. But anyway, he was a pioneer in that field, and using LSD as a psychotherapeutic tool and realizing that, in one LSD session, more could be achieved than could sometimes [in] years of conventional talking associative therapy models. And it was a very powerful and potent thing, because it gave the subject direct access to material that might remain out of sight, all the way to taking them back to their birth, or even in some cases, having past life memories emerge. But, of course, as we all know, that substance was made illegal. So Stanislav Grof, and I believe his wife, developed a safer alternative to LSD called … not safer; a non-chemical alternative.

A more legal alternative.

Yes, that too; it’s quite legal, called Holotropic Breathwork, which involves using breathing—a certain technique of breathing in order to induce a non-ordinary state of consciousness. And in this non-ordinary state of consciousness, the self goes on a, you could say, healing journey. But it’s all in a controlled setting with facilitators and so forth. But to conclude, it does; I have seen that it works for people to help them break through barriers in a safe way.

I just thought that was worth mentioning. Maybe it might be worth it for Billy to look into that and see if he could attend a seminar or something.

Yes, they have trained practitioners all over the country that I’m sure, with a little searching, you could find somebody not too far away.

Cool. Thanks for the information.

Yeah, all kinds of possibilities here. Well, I think that does it for this week. You’ve been listening to the L/L Research’s weekly podcast, In the Now. If you’ve enjoyed the show, please visit our websites: LLResearch.org and Bring4th.org. Thanks so much for listening, and a special thank you to those who submitted questions. If you’d like to send us a question for us for the next show, please read the instructions on our page at www.LLResearch.org/podcast. The episodes are published to the archive website every [other] Wednesday at 1:00 p.m. We want you to know, as always, we love you all. Hope you have a wonderful week and we’ll see you in two weeks.

Thanks to Mary A. for transcribing this episode, and Nancye G. for editing!