Hi everyone, this is Austin welcoming you to the L/L Research Podcast, In the Now, Episode #45. L/L Research is a nonprofit organization dedicated to freely sharing spiritually-oriented information and fostering community. Towards this end we have two websites: the archive website, llresearch.org and the community website, Bring4th.org.

During each episode, those of us here at L/L Research form a panel to consider questions from spiritual seekers. Our panel consists of Jim McCarty, husband to the late Carla Rueckert, scribe for the Ra contact, and president of L/L Research, along with Gary Bean and myself, who are working hard to keep the mission of L/L Research alive and well. Each of us is a devoted seeker and student of the Law of One.

We intend this podcast to be a platform of discussion as we consider questions from spiritual seekers that often challenge us to articulate our own perspective. Our replies to these questions are not final nor authoritative. Instead, they are generally subjective interpretations stemming from our own studies and life experiences. We always ask each who listens to exercise their own discernment and listen for their own resonance in determining what is true for them.

If you would like to submit a question for the show, please do so. Our humble podcast relies on your questions. You may either send an email to or go to www.llresearch.org/podcast for further instructions.

Again, I’m Austin and we are getting ready for a new episode of L/L Research’s weekly podcast, In the Now. Gary and Jim, are you guys here and ready to go?

Both of those things.

This is true.

All righty. We start our show today with a question from Billy, who submitted it via Bring4th. Billy asks:

“How do you see the Creator in another self? Ra gives this as an exercise for spiritual evolution, but it always felt kind of vague to me. I have tried in the past saying in mind, ‘See the Creator’ when looking at another self, but it has not been something I’ve been able to make a consistent practice out of. It gets repetitious, feels insincere and like a mindless mantra.

Maybe it is my approach to the exercise that is in need of a fine-tuning, or maybe it is simply not for me. What do you guys think? Do you apply this exercise in your life and if so, how? Are there any other practices you use to see the Creator in all other selves.?“

So, it’s a great question from Billy and I think we can start it off with Gary.

Like Billy, I do not do this a fraction as much as I should, but unlike Billy, I have had success with it when I have placed my mind here. On the question of “is this exercise for me?”, I think this is a very universal exercise and should in general apply to anybody upon the positive path that wants to see the Creator in self and other self. Those to whom I would not recommend this exercise are those polarizing negatively. If you are on the STS path, this exercise is not for you because you don’t want to see the other self as the Creator.

In terms of how to potentially deepen this practice, I’ve got a few thoughts to offer. Then I’m going to walk you and myself through. I would start with this question: Where are you placing your attention? Are you seeing the person’s appearance or gender or behavior? These, as with all things are certainly expressions of the One Creator, but seen at their own level, such things tend to obscure the Creator underneath—the Creator behind the face. This is the level of name and form, whereas the Creator is yet beyond and deeper.

So, what are you seeing when you look at the other self? You could try taking your seeing deeper. See a soul who is exercising their free will on a course of evolution like your own, stumbling, bumbling, and trying to find their way. See a soul that carries within it confusion and pain, memory, anticipation, hope, and so forth. See a soul that is in your same basic boat, behind a veil of forgetting in third density. See a soul to whom you are connected in ways more profound than you could possibly imagine. Spend some time turning these thoughts over as you look at somebody and letting these thoughts sink in.

So, what then are you seeing when you look at the other self? There is yet deeper you can go. Place your attention on seeing the other self as perfect, just as they are, whether seemingly evil or saintly, ignorant or illuminated. Refrain from assigning any value to their decisions. See them simply as making choices, as the Creator designed that they should do. Remove all judgment from for their choices. Then, see everything they do as happening in an environment of perfection. Place your attention on seeing the other self as whole and complete. Bring your awareness into a knowing that however distorted or limited they seem on the surface, they, in actuality, contain all that there is. They are all that there is and eventually they will discover this within themselves.

So, Billy, what are you seeing when you look at the other self? Are you seeing another or are you seeing yourself? And this exercise can go deeper yet, but I think that as it goes deeper, the mind plays less of a guiding role because it surrenders to silence and spirit. As one penetrates more deeply, one rests and abides. The more one releases effort at this level and rests in silence, the more that eventually, in so far as I understand, even the primal split of subject and object that causes you to see you and you to see another self begins to dissolve such that all is revealed as one, as the Creator.

I don’t think that seeing the self, the other self, as the Creator is an intellectual process per se. I feel that by intentionally placing the attention on the Creator-nature of the other self—removing judgment, seeing their perfection and beauty, and feeling the love that already exists in your heart for them and so forth—the mind can certainly help explore and enlarge this experience. The mind can help stimulate states of contemplation that feed and cultivate this awareness because the mind plays a part in gathering one’s attention and placing it where it is desired.

But ultimately, the merging of self with self and with other self happens through the doorway of disciplined silence, I believe. And that wraps up my reply. Good luck to you, Billy.

Thank you for that beautiful response. Jim, what sort of encouragement do you have for Billy?

I’d also like to congratulate Gary. That was a very good answer. Well, I would agree with quite a bit of what Billy said. As an exercise used without any depth or feeling, there isn’t a lot of depth to it there if you’re just trying to look at the other person and see the Creator as you’re driving down the street or walking down the street. You can kind of do that, but there isn’t any depth to it that way. I use this mostly when I have some sort of difficulty with someone. In my meditations I see the person—well, basically I combine it also with balancing. I see the situation in which I’m having the difficulty with the other person, and then I allow that difficulty to get larger and larger and larger, and for its opposite to be called to me, and then for harmony to be brought together. Then after accepting myself for having both of these ways, you know, anger and just then harmony, in a relationship for the Creator to know Itself, I see the other person as a Creator.

When it’s done at that level, especially if you use meditation, I think it carries a whole lot more weight in your total beingness because there is something about the meditative state that makes things a whole lot more real than just the contemplative state. Contemplation, I believe is very helpful as well. It’s kind of one stage between our normal waking consciousness and meditation, but I think the meditative state has kind of magical quality. It exists more in time/space than in space/time. It’s more spiritual than mundane.

So, I think that in that type of a situation, that type of your consciousness, in that state, you have a lot more luck in seeing another person as the Creator. Then maybe you could use it not just when you have a difficulty that you’d like to resolve internally with another person, but you could look around at the people you have contact with on a daily basis with whom you don’t have difficulties with at the moment, but maybe you have in the past. You just see them on a regular basis and if you wanted to deepen your appreciation of them, I think that this would be the way to do it, in the meditative state, to see them as the Creator, to look at the qualities that they have that you appreciate and the ones that you don’t appreciate and see how this is the Creator knowing Itself.

By using the meditative state I think that it will carry a lot more weight in your total meaningness and give you real feeling for the fact that the other self really is the Creator and that so are you. Austin, how about you?

That’s another great answer. Billy asks how often that we do it ourselves and I have to say that this is probably my most practiced exercise. I engage in this more than even just silent meditation. I think that it’s a habit that you form. If you do it enough, you form the habit of every time you see somebody you dive into this contemplation in sort of a natural way. So, I agree with both of you in that it goes way beyond just sort of saying “see the Creator” when you look at somebody else. That’s a very strictly intellectual way to go about it. Like Jim and Gary, I do think it’s more of a contemplation and a meditation.

So, in this passage, Ra prefaces this exercise with the phrase, “the Universe is one being” and then they go on to say “when you view another self, see the Creator.” In contemplating this, I start with asking myself what that word means: being. The Universe is one being. The only context I have for the possible depth of that word is myself and my own experiences. What makes me a being? Is it that I am alive, or is it that I experience things, or that I simply exist? That I’m self-aware? I think all of these things and more seem like likely criteria for being a being. Beyond that there is a depth to my beingness that is not only impossible to put into words, but it’s impossible to really grasp with my mind. It remains beyond this boundary of conceptualization.

But whatever it means to be a being, I only have the context for my own personal experience with that. But, as Ra says, the Universe is one being. So, you can ask yourself, “Is that only me?” or is it limited to my own experiences, perceptions, feelings, and depth of this mystery. It seems obvious to me that this is not the case and that the other entities around me—though I have no proof that they have a similar depth—also have this experience of beingness.

So, to see the Creator in my other selves starts at this simple point of acknowledgement that each individual has its own beingness. As complex and winding as our own experiences are, each person has a similarly vast beingness that reaches to boggling depths. And after acknowledging this, it’s simply a matter of contemplating the rest of Ra’s statement: “The Universe is one being.” Somehow in some way, this beingness that I experience, and the beingness that you experience is the same beingness.

Many spiritual teachings, including the Law of One, claim that the perception that these are separate beingnesses – if that’s a word – is simply an illusion. But it is one that we are confronted with strongly so we have to work within it. We have to grasp for ways to acknowledge this unified beingness from within this illusion. In my eyes, it must be within the depths of my own beingness that are beyond the conceptualization.

I think the closest we can actually come to conceptualizing it is through the expression of “I am.” Every individual can say that “I am (blank)” and fill in the blank with any number of examples of how they identify. I am man, I am woman, I am happy, I am sad, I am a banker, I’m a mountain climber, I am pleased to meet you, etc. But the root of all this identification every individual has starts with “I am.” And before we extend identity into any aspect of our manifestation, we start at that baseline: the “I”. Every person has this within them. They may choose to define themselves in any number of various ways that they wish, but it all starts from that same exact location, “I am.” This is where seeing the Creator in other selves lands for me, at least in this level of my journey of seeking. I can dive into the depths and recognize the unadultered, undiluted, undistorted “I am” and recognize that this is the same “I am” as each other individual. When someone else says, “I am” it is the same voice that speaks when I say, “I am”. It is the voice of the Creator and we are only that which comes after. Actually I don’t know what that next sentence was supposed to mean, so I’ll cut that off.

That’s essentially what it means for me, that each person is the Creator, starting from that standpoint of “I am”. When I say, “I am” it’s the same voice speaking when another person says, “I am”. So, those were my thoughts. Anything else from you guys?

Not from me.

No, I wish I could have heard your answer. The listener may not know that we had some technical difficulties and I couldn’t hear Austin’s answer, so I will have to go back and play that. But, no, sorry for the irrelevant note.

You’ll just have to trust that it’s good. All righty. So, we can move on to our next question, which comes from another user on Bring4th, whose name I cannot pronounce, but it looks like Gel, S-J-E-L…

That’s the J that’s like a Y in some cultures, so it’s Cee-yel.

Cee-yel. Either way, apologies.


Sjel submitted this question:

“What is the purpose of trying to understand anything spiritually related when, according to Ra, this is not a dimension of knowing, even subjectively? When we feel like we have gotten somewhere in our understanding, what is it that we have understood?

Since this is not the density of understanding, what have we gained when we feel we have figured something out?“

For context, I’d like to read the entire question and answer that this user is referring to, which is #61.9. Don asks,

“This brings out the point of the purpose for the physical incarnation, I believe and that is to reach a conviction of our own thought processes as to a solution to problems and understandings in a totally unbiased or totally free situation with no proof at all or anything that you would consider proof—proof being a very poor word in itself. Can you expand on my concept?”

And Ra responds:

“I am Ra. Your opinion is an eloquent one, although somewhat confused in its connections between the freedom expressed by subjective knowing and the freedom expressed by subjective acceptance. There is a significant distinction between the two.

This is not a dimension of knowing, even subjectively, due to the lack of overview of cosmic and other inpourings which affect each and every situation which produces catalyst. The subjective acceptance of that which is at the moment and the finding of love within that moment is the greater freedom.

That known as the subjective knowing without proof is, in some degree, a poor friend, for there will be anomalies no matter how much information is garnered due to the distortions which form third density.

So, with all of that in mind, Jim, what do you think about that?

Well, I think that what we’re doing here is we’re searching around with a small candle in the darkness, which is an analogy Ra used in another question. The truth is all about us, but with this little bitty candle of our consciousness, we’re looking for whatever we can find that gives us an idea of how to progress along our spiritual journey, that tells us how to find more love and light, and how to give more love and light, whatever our polarity might be. The subjective acceptance that Ra is talking about, I believe, is our ability to realize that we can’t see the overall picture, but there’s still great value in trying to grasp whatever we can of the nature of the truth and the illusion that is around us.

As we go through our daily round of activities, we have catalyst of all different kinds. We need to try to see that this is all working for us. It’s a plan and a purpose that is working out as it should in our lives. We’ve taken part in making pre-incarnative choices that brought us to where we are and that there is a Creator. Now a lot of this is the acceptance through us I was talking about. I think another word for acceptance might be faith—faith that there is a Creator that created everything that is everywhere. We’re part of the Creator and we’re trying to find our way back to the Creator on a long journey through the octave of densities.

So, as we do this bit of journey here in third density in this darkness that has a veil of forgetting, we find a little hint here and there of how things really are. We find that when we give out a certain sort of energy, we tend to get it back. We also see that when we can get more love out, we tend to get that back, and that if we treat people with love and light, they treat us the same way. We learn that there are larger principles at play. If we could accept that and have faith that those things are true—that we’re seeing just a part of the picture, just the bare outline of this wholeness that is all around us—then we can exercise our will and continue to go forward and continue to give love and light, continue to receive it, continue to see the Creator everywhere, and continue to move ourselves into union with the Creator.

So, I think that’s basically what Ra’s talking about. That we can’t understand at all here, we can only begin to grasp a bit of what’s happening. But that’s enough to draw us on in our journey, and oddly enough, that is really what makes the polarization process here work faster than it does in those entities that existed before there was a veil. They all knew without a doubt the truth that we were all one. They knew that the Creator was everywhere and that no one was more the Creator than another. And you know what? It took them a whole lot longer to graduate from third density than it takes us. That’s the paradox that has always intrigued me.

So, don’t know worry so much about you not seeing the whole picture, or even very much of it. Just keep on moving forward because there is reward for it. You will find what you’re seeking for and you’ll become what you’re seeking.

Thank you so much, Jim. Gary, how do you feel about that?

Yeah, dang, that was outstanding. I think I’m just going to say much of the same in a different way.

So, I don’t quite understand what Ra means by stating that this is not a density of “understanding”. I wish Don would have explored that further in light of how frequently Ra put the word and the concept “understanding” in figurative quotes. What is it to understand? I take that to mean, as Jim was conveying, that we cannot ultimately understand our situation. As Jim said, we can’t see the whole picture. It’s helpful to zoom out to the cosmic scale of things. We deal in an infinite universe. We are infinite beings. There is always only ever infinity—no here, no there, only here. There is only eternity, no past or present, only now. There is only the one.

Yet, here we are in a seemingly finite world living finite lives. We see not unity, but separation. We see not the One, but manyness. Thinking strictly and exclusively in terms of space and time, we feel so very real and solid. But against the backdrop of infinity, we are illusions interacting with illusions. So, what do we or can we really understand from that vantage point? Well, we can understand that all begins and ends in mystery. But even then, what are we really understanding? Are we saying that we don’t or can’t know? Are we saying that our understanding only reaches so far and from that point forward extends only in infinite abyss of darkness into which we do not peer? For that matter, what about the question why do we exist?

We have a reply to that question from Confederation sources who assert that we and the universe itself exist because infinity became aware, and the Creator desired to know Itself. What does that mean? This is not a question that a third density entity can answer satisfactorily. Perhaps because this truth does not split into subject and object and a third density entity believes itself a subject interacting with, seeking and avoiding many other objects. These are questions and thoughts for the ages surely, but in the meantime, as Jim was saying, while there is value in this experience, while we live and breathe as third-density beings behind the veil, while we cycle through incarnations seeking healing and transformation and polarization and service to the Creator and so forth, we can incrementally become more and more conscious. We can bring more material from the unknown into the somewhat known. We can discover more and more who we are, who others are, and what our true desires are. We can balance our energies, raise the locus of our awareness, purify ourselves, even go so far as to achieve, as it were, union with the One Infinite Creator. That is to say, union with whom we always have been all along.

In other words, the system can and does function at this level, even if we don’t ultimately understand. The Logos designed a density where total understanding would be all but impossible, according to Ra, and for reasons Jim mentioned. Those before the veil had a wonderful experience and could understand, I presume, as Ra means the term “understand”, yet they weren’t doing their work and they weren’t moving through the densities. So, this situation was invented whereby entities could not know. And in this state of “knowing” there is nevertheless still work to do and still illumination to seek. If there weren’t, Ra wouldn’t have even bothered to send their narrow band transmission nor, for that matter, would any teacher attempt to teach.

So, you ask, well what can we gain then? What have we gained if we can’t understand? Spiritual evolution shows that we can still nevertheless—even without understanding—polarize. We can learn to more and more serve others. We can even that quote that Ra – or that – the quote that Austin read from Ra at the beginning…I often confuse Austin and Ra…


Such wise beings. [Laughter]

It’s understandable. [Laughter]

The quote that he read at the beginning that also S-J-E-L refers to, speaks of how subjective acceptance is the greater freedom. Jim linked that to faith. Maybe learning to subjectively accept is an understanding of its own, you might say. If you learn to subjectively accept when everything in this particular system tells you not to accept, or to find judgment or to resist in some way, then that itself is a growing, is a learning, is an understanding, I would say. But in the final analysis there is still value even if we can’t understand.

I would still love to know exactly what Ra meant by understanding. I wish Don would have asked for a definition and explored that one further. Back to you, Austin.

Thank you. I wish that I had an answer prepared that was a quarter or a fraction as thought-out and inspiring as both you and Jim have shared.

So, you can ride on our energy this time.

I don’t think I even have it in me. You guys both did a great job. I would only add a few thoughts that are more hair-splitting to the actual Ra material than would actually be inspiring as you guys have offered. Perhaps the quote that I read from Ra that S-J-E-L was referring to seemed to me to be talking about specifically knowing circumstances behind catalyst, and specifically knowing how to respond. I think it was from that perspective that Ra was talking about this being a dimension of not knowing.

The situations we find ourselves in are so infinitely complex and we can never know the sort of impact that we’ll have by acting or reacting. Nor can we ever know exactly how we ended up in that situation to such a perfect degree where we’ll know exactly how we can respond. And so, in the answer that Ra gave, the sense that I got is very similar to what you and Jim were talking about—in that faith aspect when you accept that you are here, that there is a purpose for being here, and that everything is ultimately okay. Everything will ultimately be okay and everything is ultimately the Creator. Find faith and acceptance in those truths.

And the other comment I would have is perhaps, as SJel asks about what happens, what is it when we feel we’ve gotten somewhere, or what is it that we feel like we understood something? I don’t think that when Ra gave this answer they were discouraging the attempts to understand something or discouraging the attempts to broaden our perceptions and broaden our ability to grasp the reality around us. I think that they were just reminding us that is not the ultimate goal here. If we are broadening our perception, it is so we can find more acceptance of what we’re experiencing. If we’re attempting to understand something, it’s so we can bring more acceptance to that situation. And so, perhaps the feeling of spiritual progress when we feel like we’ve gotten somewhere is simply finding an ability within ourselves to expand our acceptance of certain situations or certain circumstances within the universe, at least that’s how I feel when I feel like I’ve gotten somewhere. It is simply finding a new level of acceptance to be found in this crazy density. That’s about all that I have to offer. Any further thoughts from either of you?

Not from I.

I thought your answer was wonderful. You sold yourself short. I think that was a really interesting point how you said that we can’t know all the repercussions and consequences of our actions and how that will ripple out and affect the next person and the next, or affect even our own evolutions. We can’t know, as you said, how we arrived at this point. Like Ra describes, that made me think just this moment about Ra’s description of the nature of catalyst and they say something like even the most seemingly conscious and apparent of catalyst has most of its on an unconscious level. This means that by the time we see the catalyst and become aware of it, it has filtered through who knows how many layers of the subconscious experience and mind. So, we don’t even see most of our own catalyst.

It just really helps to clarify in what ways we are in a sort of a metaphysical darkness. Ra also described how we’re not aware of all the cosmic inpourings and all the other influences that converge on this particular nexus to make this particular moment ever. How many moments are there in any one life? We’re really out to sea.

So, accepting and having faith are really our North Star. That’s how we guide this journey through the unknown. But that’s it for me.

Yeah. I’ll read that quote that you’re referencing really quickly because I think it’s relevant and it’s a good quote. It’s at #93.20. Part of Ra’s answer is:

“All that you perceive seems to be consciously perceived. This is not the correct supposition. All that you perceive is perceived as catalyst unconsciously. By the, shall we say, time that the mind begins its appreciation of catalyst, that catalyst has been filtered through the veil, and in some cases much is veiled in the most apparently clear perception.”


Yeah, so that’s very relevant to the idea of not knowing, especially in the context that I was thinking.

Yeah, how personal to one’s self is one’s catalyst?

Right, yeah. Everything is going to be filtered through our own distortions and everybody’s going to see the world differently. Two people could be in one exact same situation and have completely different ideas about what is happening to them and how they got there. So, I think that has to do with what Ra’s talking about.

I think that brings us up to our time. Any final words for our listeners, Jim?

Yes. We thank you all so much for listening. We really appreciate your attention. We appreciate your questions, we appreciate your love. Know that you’re loved right back. When you’re walking down the street tomorrow, give a little love in the form of a smile and look what comes back. We’ll see you all next time.

You’ve been listening to L/L Research’s weekly podcast, In the Now. If you have enjoyed the show, please visit our websites: llresearch.org and Bring4th.org. Thanks so much for listening and a special thanks to those who submitted questions.

If you would like to submit a question for us before the next show, please read our instructions on our page at llresearch.org/podcast. New episodes are published to the archive website every other week, Wednesday afternoons. Have a wonderful couple of weeks and we will talk with you then.