Hello everyone. This is Gary Bean welcoming you to the L/L Research Podcast, In the Now, Episode #49. L/L Research is a nonprofit organization dedicated to freely sharing spiritually-oriented information and fostering community. Towards this end, we have two websites: LLResearch.org and Bring4th.org.

During each episode, those of us at L/L form a panel to consider questions from spiritual seekers. That panel consists of Jim McCarty, Austin Bridges, and myself. We intend this podcast to be a platform of discussion as we consider questions from spiritual seekers that often challenge us to articulate our own perspective. The replies that we offer are not final or authoritative. Instead, they’re subjective interpretations stemming from our own studies and life experiences. We always ask each who listens to exercise their own discernment and listen for their own resonance in determining what is true for them.

If you would like to submit a question for the show, please do so. Our humble podcast relies on your questions. You may either send an email to or go to LLResearch.org/podcast. for further instructions.

Again, I’m Gary and we are embarking on a new episode of L/L Research’s weekly podcast, In the Now. Austin and Jim and Jim and Austin, are you there?

We are.

I am here. I guess we should preface the show by saying that we’re trying some new recording technology today. So, pardon our audio dust if anything seems off.

That, through the quirks of the space/time continuum, will only appear in Episode 49 and not in 50 because 50 was recorded on the other stuff, but then may reappear on 51. [Laughs]

There’s some really strange time travel stuff going on at L/L Research. [Laughs]

We can’t disclose it all, [Laughs] but just trust us, it’s happening.

Our first question comes from an old friend and listener of ours. If you are familiar with the previous incarnations of this show, there was a caller in Utah who would call in when we did live shows and ask questions and have a conversation with us. His name is JP and he’s still with us. He wrote us via email the following question:

“Many thanks to Jim to exposing us to Dr. Michael Newton. I recently heard an old interview with him where he mentioned that he thought the ‘Powers that Be,’ that is the benevolent metaphysical hierarchy, have started to loosen the grip on the veil, allowing for easier and deeper access to the unconscious mind.”

JP is quoting Michael Newton here.

“My question is, under Ra’s teachings, is this possible or what might account for the freeing up of more flow that seems to be happening. I would love to hear what you guys think about this idea of his.”

Well, Jim, since you’re responsible for seeding Michael Newton in JP’s mind, how about we start with you?

Okay. Let me start with just as a little side note. Dr. Newton himself has passed into larger life about a month ago. Now he knows a whole more than he ever did when he was talking to his clients. He could probably answer this question much better than we could.

But I’ve thought about this some before. I thought about how it’s probably not the case that the veil itself is thinning, but it’s that there are more seekers that are more able to penetrate it through various means of meditation, dreams, contemplation, or other special exercises for going deeper into the subconscious mind. But I’ve also noticed that he’s not the only one of the regression hypnotists that think that.

I’ve started reading Delores Cannon recently. She has another approach to the topic of entities that she calls ‘volunteers’ that Ra refers to as Wanderers, which neither Dr. Newton or Dr. Weiss or Rob Short seem to deal with specifically. I was interested in what she had to say. In her work she says that she talks mostly to the higher self or the subconscious mind of her clients and she attempts to get them into the very deepest state possible. She feels that she gets them into deeper states than anybody else. I guess there’s a sweepstakes going on, whose clients are in the deepest state, but she feels like she gets hers in a very deep state.

She’s passed on too, by the way. But she was doing this for forty years before she passed away. She had a lot of experience and said that both the higher selves and the subconscious of every client she talked to said that the veil indeed was thinning toward the end of the cycle now. She didn’t really say why it was thinning. But I would like to believe that it is.

I would like to see more people be able to penetrate the veil of forgetting and become more aware of the concepts of unity. We need some more understanding in this world these days. We’re thinking too much like separate beings and acting too much that way. I would hope that it is true. But, I’m not really sure. Those are my thoughts though.

Helpful. Austin, what do you think?

I think there are several ways to look at JP’s question. The first aspect I’d examine is the idea that he puts forth of the ‘Powers that Be’ or the hierarchy, as JP calls it. I think that that’s correlated to what Ra would call the Council of Saturn and whether or not they have direct control over something like this.

From the Ra material, Ra tells us that the Council of Saturn makes decisions about how the Confederation may interact with Earth. But, to my knowledge, Ra never really indicates that they have a direct influence over our lives in the sense that they can control the parameters of our reality or our consciousness. I won’t go so far as to say it’s not possible, but I don’t think that there’s any evidence for such in what Ra describes.

So, given the idea that the veil is thinning in a sense, which I suppose is probably true, there might be a couple of factors involved if it isn’t necessarily at the behest of the “Powers that Be.” My first inclination is to think it’s simply a natural process for the times that we are in. We’re approaching—or maybe already are in time/space—fourth density, which necessitates a shift in our individual and collective consciousness.

Ra describes fourth density as a density where there is no veil and “the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles: all these may be seen.” They also describe our planet as being in fourth density time/space right now, but having difficulty manifesting this within our space/time. There could be sort of a bleed-through from time/space, sort of like a pulling of our space/time towards the fourth density. This might manifest as the thinner veil that JP’s talking about, making it easier for us to access the unconscious mind, like through the works of Michael Newton.

Another aspect of this that I think could be correlated to the first is a cultural shift. Perhaps our culture itself is becoming more conducive to the very idea of exploring the unconscious mind, the soil becoming more fertile for that sort of seeking. That cultural soil itself might be all it takes to make access to the unconscious mind thinner. An example of this is the very idea of the mind having a polarity of conscious and unconscious. That wasn’t really a part of the understanding of consciousness in the Western world until the work of Freud, and even more of Carl Jung. At least it wasn’t really accepted in a wide-spread sense.

But after reading Jung’s autobiography recently, I was really just blown away by how dedicated and masterful he was in attempting to explore and define the unconscious mind. In fact, the concept of the unconscious mind, as it’s discussed within the Confederation materials, was developed within our culture mostly by Carl Jung throughout this lifetime. I think that the Confederation relies very heavily on the influence that Jung had on our understanding of consciousness. If he had not introduced these concepts and this language, then it might make discussing such things much more difficult—especially things like hypnotic regression, which Dr. Newton uses. That was pioneered and refined by Freud and Jung in their own practices.

So, the point being here is that Jung had a great cultural influence on the very concept of the unconscious mind and our ability to explore and access it. He died in 1961. This wasn’t really that long ago. His influence could be sort of seen as a seed, I guess, which takes a little bit of time to fully flourish and could be coming into a new type of expression with the modern New Age movements that I think Dr. Newton is sort of a part of.

So, to bring it back around the JP’s mention of the hierarchy, this cultural aspect is something that maybe could be influenced by the so-called Powers that Be. If we’re to accept the idea that they have some sort of say over the Wanderers who incarnate on earth and the way that the Confederation interacts with earth, which Ra seems to indicate that they do, then they might be allowing Wanderers to come through for specific types of purposes, such as a revolution of consciousness as offered by Jung, and other pioneers in this area. In my mind, that’s probably the way that this could correlate most to the Ra material is that if the Confederation is sort of indirectly influencing our culture by planting certain types of Wanderers with certain ideas and objectives in our culture in order to make this exploration of the unconscious mind a more acceptable and wide-spread thing, and thus simply making the unconscious mind more available in general.

That’s what I think about JP’s question. How about you, Gary?

Boy, I’m glad you guys went first on this one. I agree completely and really appreciated your thoughts, Austin, about the way in which the Confederation may try to influence the situation on the ground or bring light to it or open up certain avenues of inquiry and so forth through the function of Wanderers incarnating here and hopefully, fingers crossed, remembering their mission and performing a particular service first and foremost, of course, radiating love and light through being alone.

It seems highly unlikely per the Law of One material that beings at stages of evolution above our own can tweak the system. I don’t think there are any figurative or literal metaphysical knobs that one turns to adjust the opacity of the veil, or to increase daylight or decrease darkness, or to slow the rotation of the earth, and so forth. I think these are structural and part of the parameters that are architecturally designed and put in place by the Logos itself, including the veil.

I can’t recall specific quotes, but now that I think about it, I do remember Ra describing the Logos and the Logo’s ability to choose the vividness of the illusion that would relate directly to how thick and strong the veil is. However, like Jim and Austin were saying, I would think that the approach of fourth density may have an effect on the veil, which may cause effects within the society itself.

It’s really interesting when you look at the very rapid and complex and disorienting changes that society is going through, and how much those changes more and more resemble the baby steps, you might say, of fourth density. For instance, the way we’re becoming, in some respects, more known to one another through internet action, through digital space, and online profiles, and the way that information that was previously hidden or out of sight is now becoming more known whether through leaks or through just the abundance and availability of information and the way we’re able to communicate with one another so rapidly and so forth.

One can ask, is that a function, a natural, organic growth of the society, and a function of the mix of technology and beliefs and innovations, and so forth. Does fourth density have a part in that? We actually explored similar questions I think in Episode 9 and 39, in terms of what effect fourth density might have on third.

Otherwise, I think that wraps it up for me. Do you guys have any other further thoughts?

I have one other thought. Back in 1981, Ra mentioned that there had been, I believe it was about 15,000, entities allowed to incarnate here early who would be making this their fourth density planet and that they had doubly-activated bodies, which meant that they had both third and fourth density bodies activated. I’m thinking that in the succeeding years, the 36 years that have passed since that time, that that figure has probably grown a great deal. I would imagine that they are also able to access their subconscious mind and penetrate the veil more effectively than the normal third-density entity. A number of people in the field of the New Age, I guess, are talking about—and have been for years—about how we ourselves are changing our DNA. Everybody is changing DNA because of the increased vibratory energy coming our way from the cosmos. Just like the striking of the clock upon the hour, there’s a certain time that we’re now in where the energies are more available for the planet.

So, if that’s true, then there might be some more ability on the part of each individual to penetrate the veil of forgetting. I even read in Charles Eisenstein’s book recently that the various sorts of life forms on the planet are also able to change their DNA structure and behave in a slightly different fashion. I’m thinking that maybe this is something that’s going on all over the planet with all life forms, and even things that we don’t usually think of as being alive.

So, that’s just another little angle that popped in my mind while you were talking, Gary.

You know, it’s interesting you referenced the dual-activated bodies because that then brought to my mind where Ra says specifically about that group that one advantage of them being able to be here at this time is that they may begin fourth density work while here, while incarnate, while at the end of third density.

So, that may be yet another way in which fourth density is having an effect upon our present experience, and maybe even leading to the thinning of the veil in some ways. Is that it for all of us?

I think that’s all for me.

All right. Our next question comes from Karan with two A’s. Karan via Bring4th writes:

“I want to know if I’m wasting my time trying to create an environment in my mind/body/spirit complex where my ‘negative friends’ are being assisted to ascend if they insist on offering their assistance when requesting that negative friends be bathed in light and helped to ascend to a more unified perspective.

Does that have the effect of influencing their conscious progression in the same way that their offers influence ours? Another way of asking the question would be, is it possible to bring them along for the ride by gifting a more unified perspective to them against their will, without it being a loss in polarization for one’s self, given that it is their choice to be there, offering their ‘service’?

So can the Higher Self be summoned and embodied at a time that the other side are making an offer in an attempt to influence the distorted aspects of self to re-align with oneness through conveying unwanted glimpses at unity?“

Austin, what have you got?

Well, I think that one of the primary things to consider with a question like this is the idea of intention of your actions. I think that there is a significant, yet subtle, difference between the concept of offering love and acceptance to those who greet us from the negative path because you actually love and accept them, versus offering them love and acceptance with some sort of additional motive.

Karan used the term ‘against their will’ and asked if attempting to offer an experience of love to these entities against their will would be a loss of polarization. I think that in most cases like this, if you are knowingly attempting to change someone or force them to experience something against their will, then it would result in a loss of polarization. The idea of loving and accepting the other entity is that you love and accept them as they are and not because you think you have a chance to change who they are by loving and accepting them.

I think it’s similar in the concept of things like thanking the entity for the experience. There’s a difference from simply being genuinely grateful for an experience that offers opportunity for more self-knowledge, than offering your thanks to an entity in a sort of sarcastic way that intentionally subverts their intentions. Sort of like saying, “Ha-ha, you tried to knock me down, but you only made me more loving you, dummy.” The intentions play a subtle role in this dynamic.

Now, say that you were genuinely offering love and acceptance without this ulterior motive of hoping to change them. Could this experience help them to realign their own perspective? I think that’s a good question. In the Law of One when Ra talks about a negative entity greeting the group that was channeling Ra, Ra says that as the group offered it love and light that it loses polarity and needs to regroup. So it seems that the known possible consequence is that in offering this love, you are actually hindering the entity on its chosen path and again, there’s no intention of hindering the entity. It’s simply a natural result of you keeping an open heart towards the entity. You don’t wish for it to be hindered, you just accept it as it is, which, in itself is damaging.

But in pure speculation, there’s no real basis in the Law of One for this idea, I don’t think. I suppose that it’s possible that if a less clever entity with less power of will than the one that greeted the Ra group, might be fully swayed by such an acceptance and love from an individual. Maybe it’s possible that the entity will not be wise enough to regroup and instead sit in the influence of that person’s love until they start to get this idea that this whole love thing maybe isn’t such a bad deal after all. I don’t think it’s out of the question. I think that it depends on your intentions, though, and if you have a goal to convert them to your path, then it probably wouldn’t work because it would not be a genuine love and acceptance. In fact, I think that it’s a form of control if you offer the entity love as an attempt to control it on its path, having the desire to have it change its path, and then attempting to manifest that desire. Doing so might actually be losing your own polarity due to the sort of disingenuous nature of your acceptance. Then, that entity might actually gain polarity for having successfully knocked you off the path and sort of corrupted your intentions.

So, in doing it exactly as Karan says with this desire to change them, then it might actually be counter-productive in that sense. Those are my thoughts. Back to you, Gary.

Thank you very much. Jim, what have you got for Karan?

Well, Don spent most of Session 67 trying to do the same basic thing—trying to be of more service to our friend in negative polarity. As long as the friend would not be so liable to cause Carla to be losing her balance or being dizzy or so forth, I don’t know if Don was trying to make a trade or what. So, Ra spent most of the session trying to let Don know that that really wasn’t possible because the negative entity perceived things in a different sense than we did.

And so, after a number of reasonings with Don that were trying to let him know that wasn’t possible, Don then asked in session #67.26:

“Well then there is no other service that we can at this time offer that fifth-density entity of the Orion group who is so constantly with us. As I see it now there is nothing that we can do for him from your point of view? Is this correct? “

Ra answered:

“I am Ra. This is correct. There is great humor in your attempt to be of polarized service to the opposite polarity. There is a natural difficulty in doing so since what you consider service is considered by this entity non-service. As you send this entity love and light and wish it well it loses its polarity and needs to regroup. Thus it would not consider your service as such.

On the other hand, if you allowed it to be of service by removing this instrument from your midst, you might, perhaps, perceive this as not being of service.

You have here a balanced and polarized view of the Creator: two services offered, mutually rejected, and in a state of equilibrium in which free will is preserved and each allowed to go upon its own path of experiencing the One Infinite Creator. “

So, no, it doesn’t seem like it works that way. They don’t look at things the way we do. I don’t think we could really depolarize much from our polarity if we were trying to, like Karan says, to bring them along because there’s really no chance of that. They are way too wise. They have a wider point of view than we do and they have far more power. They just kind of chuckle and leave and think, well, I’ll be back later.

Gary, what do you think?

I think you guys hit all the nails on the heads there. I have little to add to that. I had 67.26 and 67.27 quoted here that I was going to read, but Austin touched on 67.26 and then you read the whole quote, Jim. I think I can add a couple sentences from #67.27. Ra says:

“You need, in our humble opinion, to look at the humor of the situation and relinquish your desire to serve where no service is requested. The magnet will attract or repel. Glory in the strength of your polarization, and allow others of opposite polarity to similarly do so, seeing the great humor of this polarity and its complications in view of the unification in sixth density of these two paths.”

I think it’s the crux of it, just as Austin was saying. It is of a service-to-others nature to offer all other selves love and light because you genuinely feel love and light for them and because you genuinely recognize the underlying unity between you and them, that you are one, and that the other self is the Creator. But if you’re offering love and light in order to convert, then you’re flirting with moving into the realm of control and that is not quite service to self, but it’s not always so black and white. And, as Austin was saying, it comes down to your intentions. I think that’s what’s most important.

In the scenario you described, I would say that though it seems good-hearted because you want to give this other negative fellow a positive experience, I think they may begin to stray into service-to-self territory in wanting some kind of conversion or an experience that they would not wish to give a service which they would consider non-service.

So, you guys have any more thoughts for Karan?

Not I.

Nope, I don’t think so.

Austin, where are we in our time?

We’re a little short, but I think that it is close enough to say this is a full episode.

All right. Yeah, the next one is pretty big. All right. Jim, did you want to say anything to the listeners?

Yeah. We’re in a new year now, so I want to refresh our love offering to you, it may have gotten a little smaller over the holidays. We love you guys a whole lot and we thank you so much for sending your questions in, for listening to the program and for sending love back to us. You are treasures. Thank you so much. Have a great week. We’ll see you in two.

You’ve been listening to L/L Research’s weekly podcast, In the Now. If you’ve enjoyed the show, please visit our websites, LLResearch.org and Bring4th.org. Thanks so much for listening and a special thank you to those who submitted questions. If you’d like to send us a question before the next show, please read the instructions on our page at LLResearch.org/podcast. New episodes are published to the archive website every other Wednesdays around 1:00 p.m. Eastern. Have a wonderful week and we’ll talk with you next time.