Hello everybody. This is Gary Bean welcoming you to the L/L Research Podcast, In the Now Episode Number 52. L/L Research is a nonprofit organization dedicated to freely sharing spiritually oriented information and fostering community. Towards this end, we have a couple of websites: the archive website llresearch.org and the community website Bring4th.org.

During each episode, those of L/L Research form a panel to consider questions from spiritual seekers. That panel consists of Jim McCarty, who was husband to the late Carla Rueckert, scribe for The Ra Contact, and President of L/L Research, along with myself and Austin Bridges who are working hard to keep the mission of L/L Research alive and well.

All of us are devoted seekers and students of the Law of One. This podcast is designed to be a platform of discussion. We consider questions from spiritual seekers that really challenge us to determine our own thoughts. Please know that our replies to these questions are not final or authoritative. They’re subjective interpretations and we ask each who listens to exercise their own discernment and listen for their own residents in determining what is true for them.

If you’d like to send us a question for the show, please do so. Our humble podcast relies on your questions. You can either send an email to or go to llresearch.org/podcast for further instructions.

Again, I’m Gary and we are embarking on a new episode of L/L Research’s weekly podcast, In the Now Austin and Jim, are you also embarking on a new episode?


Yes, so is Pickwick. [the cat]

Pleasure to have you along, Pickwick. You may hear our friend Pickwick in the show. We’ll try to edit him out, but he is Jim and Carla’s cat of how many years old?

Almost 21.

21. He may be in his final stages of incarnation and is having a bit of a tough time, meowing quite vocally.

So, we will get right into our questions. The first one comes from Arnold who asked a really solid question last episode, too. Arnold says:

“Why disclose to third and fourth density entities on this planet information about the various densities and the thickness of illusion, which is designed to foster self-awareness, while simultaneously disclosing that it is the Infinite Creator’s intent to keep the veil over our eyes from understanding third densities intended illusion.

In other words, why review what is intended to be hidden?“

Start with Austin. Do you have any insights into this question?

Yeah, I think it’s a pretty good question. I feel that the crux of Arnold’s question lies in the actual function of the veil. It seems to me that the intent of the veil isn’t simply to hide these things for the sake of them being hidden, but to create a process of seeking that is a natural result of the veiling.

So, without the veil, knowledge of the Creator and communication between the conscious and unconscious mind is automatic. Ra talks about how before the veil under these conditions, there was basically no impetus to seek, no polarization. And I take that to mean that there was a lack of significant experience for the Creator. Ra speaks about this in #82.22 when they say:

“Consider, if you will, the tendency of those who are divinely happy, as you call this distortion, to have little urge to alter, or better, their condition. Such is the result of the mind/body/spirit which is not complex.

There is the possibility of love of other-selves and service to other-selves, but there is the overwhelming awareness of the Creator in the self. The connection with the Creator is that of the umbilical cord. The security is total. Therefore, no love is terribly important; no pain terribly frightening; no effort, therefore, is made to serve for love or to benefit from fear.“

So, the first argument I would make is simply learning about these concepts typically doesn’t instill a permanent overriding sense of divine happiness, as Ra put it. At least it doesn’t for me. And I don’t think it has for anybody that I know personally. I certainly get a taste of that divine happiness and get a peek at it when learning or contemplating these concepts that are given to us by the Confederation. But it isn’t like the reattachment of that umbilical cord.

So, in that sense, I’d say that the ultimate purpose and benefit of the veil is not eliminated or lessened by them sharing this knowledge with us. Along those same lines, I would argue that this sort of information has to be consciously sought when under the veil. It’s not an innate thing. It’s not innate in our being as it was before the veil. Even then, a person must be on the right path in order for this information to strike them as true. The majority of people on Earth right now will probably never be exposed to this specific information, and there are plenty of people who do find it but then dismiss it. That’s the nature of the veil. This truth, if it is indeed true, can easily be dismissed or rejected because of the free will of the individual.

The act of seeking, finding this information, resonating with it, and then utilizing it to further one’s personal transformation and seeking, is a powerful act that is possible only because of the veil. I think that is the primary purpose of the veil, in that it creates that significant experience that the Creator is seeking in creation.

That brings me to why I think that these concepts are revealed to us, and why the Confederation shares these concepts. Because when it’s presented in this way, with the veil fully intact, it aids in the polarization and the evolution of our souls. Learning the information, it gives us a bit of a peek of what is hidden by the veil. But, it is more of a guiding star. It doesn’t illuminate the darkness of the night completely. We still have to traverse the darkness. But it gives us a hint of direction or a hint of the way that we have to travel. And it may eventually lead to us piercing the veil and seeing all is one once again, but only if we make the choice to follow that path and dedicate ourselves to it. In that case, the purpose of the veil is fulfilled and aided by the Confederation sharing this information.

So that’s why I think that they do give us this information. Back to you, Gary.

Fantastic answer. Thank you. Jim, what do you think?

I think Austin said everything I was going to say. Did you peek at my notes? [Laughs]

Yes, I stole them. [Laughs]

I could say ditto. Well, he mentioned fourth density, too. Fourth density entities pretty much have the veil removed. So, Ra wasn’t telling them anything they don’t already know a whole lot more about than what Ra says. But for the third density, as Austin says, I think that it’s something that gives us some hope. We’re wandering around in an illusion that is very dense and difficult to penetrate any sense from it. The reason, of course, as Austin said, is the veil separates the conscious and subconscious minds. It mantles over everything that has any value as far as the spiritual journey is concerned: The nature of the creation being unified, creation being made by the power of love and being made out of light. All those things are totally revealed when there’s no veil.

So, with the veil, we were just kind of stuck here in the darkness. The darkness and the forgetting. To hear from Ra or anybody that there is hope, that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and that it’s not a train coming at us, is very inspiring.

I think that the basic reason the Ra gave the information was to help inspire us. It doesn’t do any work for us. Like Austin said, you still have to do the work. Just because you know a little bit about how the car runs doesn’t mean you know how to drive it if you’ve never driven a car before. So, for me, it just gives me a lot of hope and something to work on. When you start getting those little tidbits of information back from your own subconscious, you start saying, “All right, yeah, okay, let’s keep on going.”

Gary, how about you?

Yeah, likewise. I’m pretty sure Austin stole my notes as well. [Laughs] I think that happens when you’re forming a social memory complex.

You guys need to pay more attention to your notes. [Laughs]

My answer is highly congruent with Austin’s, but I think I’ve got enough unique pieces to hopefully make it worth uttering. Here’s my attempt to answer Arnold’s question of why does a Confederation reveal what is intended to be hidden?

For me, the foundational premise to understand is that the positive service to other sources can serve those on this planet only insofar as it is requested. Both their presence and the information they offer are a direct function of the request that we on Earth issue in one form or another. That is to say that the Confederation sources select what they are able to share in accordance with our free will, and they hope to share information that empowers and informs us upon our journey. It doesn’t, of course, abridge our free will.

So much as Jim and Austin said, I would slot information about the veil and the densities of this octave into that category. Such information doesn’t violate our free will but empowers us to understand ourselves and to seek the Creator. Why do I say that? In designing and implementing the veil of forgetting, the Logos did not intend, so far as I can speculate about these things, to keep knowledge of the veil itself hidden. Rather, it intended that the veil itself would keep certain information hidden to various degrees.

For instance, the veil hides “the subconscious portion of the mind,” memory of past lives, memory of the pre-incarnational plan, immediate awareness of love, light, and unity. But the Logos did, however, design that that veil could be penetrated. And, with sufficient work, will, and faith over time, become dismantled altogether.

This is where I really dovetail with what Austin and Jim were saying. The Confederation’s message doesn’t penetrate the veil for us. It helps us to do the work of penetrating on our own. So, with their information as a resource, we’re potentially more empowered to understand our situation and ourselves, and to understand the power we each possess in will and faith to author our own journey, and to affect our own transformation, and serve others.

In fact, the Confederation’s information about the veil—and I think Austin was getting on this topic, too, for this thought—is part of our process of penetrating the veil. We only arrive at such information as the Confederation offers because we are in a position to begin or to accelerate the journey of seeking. The Confederation’s information would have no place in someone who is not ready for or interested in seeking and penetrating the veil.

My final thought is that I definitely do not completely understand the parameters of free will, and what does or does not abridge free will, as entities of a higher density share information with entities of a lower density. But if the Confederation sources could tell us nothing about the actual creation, then there would be no channeling and no inspired visions or dreams or other methods of contact and communication. We would be completely in the dark and left to our own devices to find our way.

And who knows, perhaps another Logoi in our infinite creation did design their third density experiences to be totally self-contained, and free from outside information and influence as physically possible. Ra actually did mention that there was some permeability designed between the boundaries of densities in this octave, and I think that is particular to this Logos. I’m not sure. But anyways, there are many permutations to this great experiment.

Do you guys have any further thoughts for Arnold on that one?

Not I.

No. I think when he mentioned fourth density entities, he’s probably referring to the dual-activated entities who are fourth density in nature, but are incarnate in third-density bodies that are still subject to the veil. Thinner ones still have a veil. I assume that’s what he was talking about. That’s all.

Yeah, I think you’re right. All right. Arnold’s got one more to challenge us with here.

One more for this week. He’s got some more lined up.

Oh, okay. One more for this week. Arnold says:

“Does being aware of the third-density illusion create fear? I ask this because an entity like myself may fear that it may not make it to fourth-density Earth after the harvest.”

We’ll switch it up this time. What do you think, Jim?

How a person will respond to the information that there is a harvest to make, and that we need to be able to harness our energies in a certain way in order to make that harvest could cause fear. It depends on how they approach their life. I don’t think there’s any reason to fear it objectively. It can actually be something that can give us a lot of inspiration. Knowing that there is a path that we can travel that will take us to a more full expression—not only of ourselves, but a closer approximation to the one creator—can be inspirational.

To think that if I can learn how to love everyone and everything around me at least 51% of the time, which doesn’t seem too difficult, is something that really excites me. I don’t think there is a lot to fear there. Choosing to be of service to others for 51% of the time means that I can make harvest and go on to the fourth density where there is no veil. There, I’m going to see how the creation is made as all one thing out of the Creator. I’ll be able to travel further along this path and see that the path provides a lot of different adventures, a lot of different things to learn, services to offer, and just an incredible array of opportunity to expand one’s consciousness and one’s heart and one’s total beingness. To me, it’s totally exciting.

Now, I don’t know, maybe some people would be afraid of not making the harvest, but I think rather than placing your consciousness on any kind of a fear there, put it on the positive side and say, “Look at this opportunity that’s available to me. This is something that’s just amazing. How about that? Let’s do this.”

So that’s the way I feel about it. What do you think, Austin?

Yeah, that’s a good answer. I think first I would point out a distinction that I see in Arnold’s words where he sort of conflates the concept of reality as an illusion and the harvest itself. I just want to make this distinction because it certainly makes sense that a person would become aware of the harvest if they are made fully aware of the illusion. But I see the concept of illusion as a much broader concept than the specific mechanism of harvest that I think he’s talking about. I want to point out that there might be spiritual systems of belief that speak about our reality as an illusion, but do not speak specifically about harvest. I think the concept of the illusion is a much more central and useful concept than an event like the harvest.

But that said, I look at Arnold’s question the same way as Jim. He’s asking about fear being generated by the concept of harvest itself. And in that case, I have seen it. I do think that there could be a consequence of the Confederation seeming to focus so centrally on harvest. And like Jim was pointing out, this is a sort of catalyst like anything else. It could generate fear, it could generate hope, and it could generate a whole range of other emotions. I don’t know exactly why the choice was made by the Confederation to have such a focus on an event like that. Not only is it mentioned as a major reason for the incarnation of Wanderers, but it was also one of the few topics that Ra would proactively offer information about without directly being asked. It was also a very central topic in the earlier conscious channelings.

So, with that much focus being placed on it in the channelings, I think the concept itself does have the potential for causing fear. I think it’s because many people view third density, especially our own third density experience, as a hellscape almost. Having to experience more third density almost seems like a punishment to some. I think this perspective may be exaggerated by our particular third density on Earth, which Ra seems to indicate is an unusually confused experience. This level of confusion can cause a lot of inner turmoil.

But the general idea of harvest, I think, also implies the sentiment, better hurry up or else you’re not going to make it. And maybe that’s part of the reason why the Confederation chose to focus so heavily on it. Perhaps they wanted to help instill a sense of urgency simply as a catalyst for polarization. But I believe that when this focus is put on some sort of arbitrary cutoff date or some arbitrary finish line or goal, it might lessen the integrity of the seeking that it creates. Instead of a person seeking to serve others because they have a genuine realization of love and the Creator and all things, they might seek to serve others simply to avoid a future discomfort, or to avoid having to repeat their density again.

I don’t know if the Confederation’s heavy focus has been helpful, but I will share an observation of my own for Arnold. Most people that I’ve seen who are scared and worried about making the harvest are really genuinely good people. Like Jim was saying, Ra talks about 51% being a difficult number to achieve. But I think that difficulty was in the many many lifetimes that we have lived before this lifetime. Here, we are at a culmination point. I think if you are seeking love in this lifetime, you have made that choice, and there’s really no reason to fear any repeat third density.

I would say to Arnold, or to anyone else who has fear, don’t worry so much about the harvest. Don’t worry about having to continue third density or graduating to another level. If you’re like me, the choice to seek love within this lifetime reaps its own rewards, which is the joy that is experienced from that seeking. Or, at the very least, if it hasn’t been a joyful experience, hopefully the reward is in the truth that has been recognized from that seeking, which is also very liberating for me.

Maybe the Confederation would be mad at me for suggesting that you not worry about harvest, but that’s kind of how I feel.

How about you, Gary?

Beautiful answers from both of you. As usual, there’ll be some overlap in my answer.

I will start tackling Arnold’s questions by asking some questions of my own. Starting with, does being aware of spiders create fear? Does being aware of germs create fear? Does being aware of one’s own mortality create fear? As with these questions, I don’t think there’s a one size fits all answer to your question.

Like Jim was saying, he doesn’t think knowledge of the harvest or the illusion, or really any topic in the world, including knowledge of fear itself, objectively produces fear in a person. It all depends on your own perspective. Where some people may feel liberated upon learning that this experience is an illusion, others may indeed become afraid.

Like Austin was saying, I can empathize with the concern about not making harvest, especially from the standpoint of this particular third density experience. Whatever your situation or station in life, each day presents a lot of opportunity for pain, confusion, and suffering. From this perspective, the concept of harvest can seem like an exit, an escape pod, or a transition to a long-sought heavenly oasis where you’re free of the suffering. To think that one may seemingly miss that boat and be, you might say, stuck in this mud pool of violence and ignorance and brutality for another 25,000 years or so, could cause some consternation.

We’ve discussed the vibratory rate that is necessary for graduation into fourth density, as Ra defines it, on this program before. Ra says that the entity must be at a 51% service-to-others. Jim translated that into time: 51% of your time being devoted to serving others. But ultimately, we’re not entirely sure how informative such a number is when we have no means of performing any reasonable measurements ourselves.

I hope it’s safe to say that anyone who’s oriented towards basic human loving kindness is at this level already. Anyone who recognizes, as Austin was describing, the ideals of the positive polarity and pursues them—including the respecting of free will of self and others, practicing love and acceptance over control and manipulation, et cetera—has already made this choice.

We also hear from people who think that they are taking an honest assessment of themselves and see that they have hate within them, or have a desire to control, and other seemingly non-positive aspects of the self. To make the choice to be service to others doesn’t mean to become perfect, or to rid oneself of every ounce of darkness and negativity and selfishness and so forth. It’s only to tilt yourself in the direction of positive service-to-others oriented work, and then to do that work. Chances are, if you are walking a spiritual path yourself, you are well over that mark.

And if that’s helpful to hear at all, I will second what Austin said.

I of course cannot know that definitively, but what I can say is that I understand and suggest that as the spiritual vision matures, it becomes less about reaching a particular place or goal or event or condition. Rather, it becomes more about being here and now. It becomes more about accepting this moment as it is, accepting the self as it is, and being where you are.

Your entire outlook and your sense of your environment can become exactly as Jim described, where you look at the road ahead and see adventure. Not a road free of pain or pitfalls or even terrors in the night. But ultimately, you have zoomed out sufficiently enough that you can see that you’re on a course and that the universe is assisting you. You see that the material that life gives you can be used for your own growth and that it is going to be an adventure for you because you’ll have support along the way.

To conclude, I personally find knowledge about the illusion to be liberating. If I was completely asleep—and wasn’t aware that we lived in a multi-dimensional universe, or that there was more to the universe, to life, and to this world than what we see in consensus reality or the world you see on the media—then I’d be pretty freaking bummed. I think I’d have a really hard time coping in this world. I wouldn’t know how well I would even mentally survive to be able to navigate my way through.

It is liberating to know that the world as we perceive it is not final. Which isn’t to say that I relate to it by negating it or saying, “oh, this isn’t real, so I don’t need to feel it, or I don’t need to face it, I don’t need to deal with it.” It’s just that it’s liberating knowing that this is just one thin slice of reality and that there’s so much more—and that more includes connection and love and safety, you might say, and ultimately eternity and infinity. So, I find it, as I was saying, liberating.

So, what say you, Austin or Jim?

A couple of items. I agree with you. If this really were the crown of creation, it would be a very disturbing thought. But you know, according to Charles Eisenstein, that’s the worldview for most people in the world—that this is the best as it gets and that science and religion together are going to get us where we’re going.

I want to clarify one other thing on the 51% number. I think it is hard to figure out exactly what the 51% means. But for me, I am considering all of our thoughts, all of our words, and all of our actions. In other words, all of our energy expenditures. If they could be quantified in some way and that if 51% of your energy went toward the service-to-others or loving positive polarity, then that would probably constitute harvest.

Ra mentions that it’s the overall balance of our energy centers that’s really going to be the thing that determines whether or not we make the harvest. And of course, each of the energy centers has a certain function. The red ray goes with sexual experiences and survival, and the orange ray is independent experience with the one other entity, as well as the emotional responses. And the yellow ray goes with group entities. And the green ray, where we need to get to, is of universal love.

So, as it ascends, perhaps so does our ability to touch other people and to have our energy expenditures have an effect upon others. If our energy centers are in a balanced fashion, we can withstand the impact of the light that we’d be walking into after the graduation is underway for us. This light has apparently been underway for quite some time. I think Ra said the first beginnings were somewhere around 1945 or so. So, the graduation has been going on for a while.

Another thing I wanted to say to Arnold to kind of give him a little hope here, is that there’s the quality of the seniority vibration. Everybody here is here because he or she has a pretty good chance of making the harvest because of efforts made in previous incarnations. So the only people that are here are the ones who have a chance—seven billion of them. Can you imagine what the gene pool was? If that’s the seniority, what the others, how many could be here? Anyway, that is something to take into account. Because you are here, you have a chance to make it. And since you’re asking questions like this, you’re also a conscious seeker, which really speaks highly of the likelihood that you’ll figure out a way of making the harvest.

I don’t think a person has to be a conscious seeker. Don mentioned in there that the person could have no knowledge of Law of One whatsoever and not have any understanding. As Ra said, this is not the density of understanding. One may have no real concept of the qualities necessary for harvest and still make the harvest if they are of that grade. Simply expressing, I think everybody knows somebody in his or her life that is just a good person. They may not be particularly articulate or refined in their philosophy, but they’re just a good person and you know they’re going to make it because they love everybody. So, take heart. It’s going to work out.


Just to build off of a couple of things you were just saying, one of them being also the idea of Wanderers, I want to say that if you are a Wanderer that is here, then you made this choice a long time ago. You made the choice to love many, many years ago. And I believe that if you tapped back into that choice here in third density, you really don’t have a whole lot to worry about. You already have a strong polarity.

Ra was never very specific about how the harvest works with Wanderers or whether they have to meet some sort of harvesting point. Qu’o does say a bit about it, but Ra never said anything specific. But I believe that if you’re a Wanderer and you have even gotten a hint of that love and are walking that path, you really have absolutely nothing to worry about. You can either continue wandering or go back to your home density after this incarnation. Once you get to the other side, continuing with third density experience might look like a fun thing if you’re a Wanderer because you made the choice to come here.

Also, to talk about that 51% threshold, I’ve never been a big fan of using those types of numbers because we never understood exactly what that meant. Ra was not specific about 51% of what. Jim talked about balance being a better indication. I would just like to point out that I feel the 51% could be as small as if you make the choice to smile at a stranger—that counts towards your 51% of whatever you need 51% of. If you hold the door for somebody, if you just have a loving thought, or if you get angry at somebody and then choose to look at that anger because you want to love instead, I think that counts for a big portion of that 51%. So, just things like that. We don’t know what the 51% is, so I wouldn’t stress about the number. But if you are walking this path, like we’ve all said, I think that there’s a pretty good chance you’ve made it already. That’s all.

How about you Gary?

Yeah, a couple of quick thoughts. I think as problematic as it can be to work with that 51% number, Jim was right. There are other associated metrics, you might say with harvest, including the openness of the heart and the balance of the system. And Austin, what he was saying about if you smile at somebody, got me thinking. I swear I came across a Martin Luther King Jr. quote sometime years ago and I haven’t been able to find it again. But I feel like he said something about how we’re not judged by individual acts but by the…

…. content of your character.

No, that wasn’t it either. But it gets to the same or similar concept. But by the overall arc of our growth or something along those lines. But I think that’s the case, too. It might be an aggregate, even the way we’re just slightly tilted in one direction or another, even though we may have actions or thoughts within our being that run contrary to the orientation. Ra uses the word bias. Actually, we’re here to bias our consciousness in one direction or the other.

And to conclude, I think that Jim’s thought about seniority of vibration was really astute. That hadn’t occurred to me. Everybody on this planet right now is capable of achieving that just by making the choice in one direction or another. That probably brings us to the end of our show, I’d imagine.

Yes, we are there.

All right. Well, Jim, would you have anything to offer to the listeners?

Well, folks, we just want you to know how much we appreciate you listening to the podcast and we appreciate your questions. We want you to know how much we love you, and we feel the love coming back. So, take that love and multiply it out there. Love it forward. If you’re ever in doubt of what to do when you see another person smile and love them.

You’ve been listening to L/L Research’s weekly podcast, In the Now. If you’ve enjoyed the show, please visit our websites: llresearch.org and Bring4th.org.

Thanks so much for listening and a special thank you to those who submitted questions. If you’d like to send us a question before the next show, please read the instructions on our page at llresearch.org/podcast. New episodes are published to the archived website every other Wednesday afternoon. Have a wonderful couple of weeks and we’ll will talk with you then.