Hello and welcome. I am Austin Bridges, welcoming you to the L/L Research Podcast, In the Now, Episode Number 57. Yes, 57. That’s right. L/L Research is a nonprofit organization dedicated to freely sharing spiritually oriented information and fostering community. Towards this end, we have two websites: the archive website, www.llresearch.org and the community website, Bring4th.org.
During each episode we respond to questions sent to L/L Research from spiritual seekers like you. Our panel consists of Gary Bean, Jim McCarthy, and myself. Each of us is a devoted seeker and student of the Law of One. Your questions allow us to explore the Law of One and related matters of metaphysical interest.
We hope only to offer a resource that enhances your own seeking process. Please know that our replies are not final word on these subjects. We ask each who listens to exercise their discernment and be sensitive to their resonance in determining what is true for them.
If you would like to submit a question for this show, please do so. Our humble podcast relies on your questions. You may either send an email to gro.hcraeserll/@tcatnoc or go to www.llresearch.org/podcast for further instructions.
Again, I am Austin, and we are embarking on a new episode of L/L Research’s Podcast, In the Now.
Jim and Gary, you guys here and ready to go?
I’m ready. And Chloe is too, if you hear any purring in the background.
Yeah, that’s what I heard.
All righty. Well, our first question today comes from Mr. JP from Utah, a friend of ours and frequent questioner and listener of the show. JP writes:
“I heard on Coast to Coast AM, a national late night radio talk show that deals with the paranormal, about some new fascinating stories of children remembering past life information. It seems the veil is getting more and more thin, and these past life memories are getting more common and detailed. They are very hard to ignore. And at the same time, science is getting better and better and way deeper. And someday soon, one might ask, what is the world going to do when the veil is broken, and real science can prove without a doubt that life after death is real? What will the world be like? Well, what timing?
Netflix is soon going to premiere a new movie starring Robert Redford as a scientist who discloses his real undeniable proof that it is true. As you can imagine, all hell breaks out and there goes catalyst in the 75,000 year cycle for harvest. This could happen in our lifetimes for sure. Maybe you guys could speculate just for fun what this would mean for the average human and planet if science discovers the existence of reincarnation. Something to think about. Is it scary? We are over halfway there right now.“
Gary, what do you have to say about that?
I’d like to hear what JP has in mind because it sounds like he’s given this subject some thought and allowed his mind to daydream into wondrous areas.
There are competing truths in the world, and the scientific institution seems to be the dominant arbiter of collective reality in the reigning global paradigm.
That is to say, science offers the most persuasive and convincing of the available voices, generally speaking. So, say then, that the existence of the afterlife is scientifically validated and endorsed by the scientific community, which means then that the world at large accepts that finding. It might be a paradigm revolution that would shake foundations comparable to the imagined iconic moment of the UFO landing on the White House lawn, or the cultural cataclysm of an asteroid heading towards Earth.
Then again, a lot of people around the world already believe in reincarnation. I did some Internet browsing, surely a reliable way of gathering data, and came across people indicating that maybe up to a quarter of the world’s population already subscribed to some system of reincarnation or transmigration of the soul, including Taoist, Sikhs, maybe some Aboriginal understandings, an unknown number of New Age adherents, and approximately 1.5 billion Hindu and Buddhist. But the Western world seems founded upon principles that limit the scope of the self’s journey to one lifetime in the scientific view, or perhaps an eternal afterlife to follow in the religious view.
So, what impact would an understanding of reincarnation have? I think that simply accepting reincarnation would be the first and largest hurdle to overcome. I think no matter what kind of evidence might be procured, humanity is nothing if not adept at burying the head in the sand. We don’t want to see what we don’t want to see, especially if it conflicts with dearly held belief—especially if that belief is embedded in a sense of self and one’s tribal affiliation. Yet despite this propensity, worldview has somehow evolved over the centuries, and more recently, decades.
I don’t know that reincarnation would offer clarity, per se. I think there would be a lot of confusion and turmoil in society as it attempted to reconcile reincarnation with the historical worldview. But if a consensus, or a majority or critical mass of people do come around and start to say that reincarnation makes a lot of sense, then there would be a redefining or refining of many, if not most, areas of human development and activity.
I will speculate about three relationships. Our understanding at L/L Research is that most on this particular planet have been around the block a lot. It is statistically likely then, that in past lives we have worked with the people in our present lives. So, relationships then could take on a whole new lens that understands current dynamics in terms of energies that were set into motion long ago. Especially illuminating for those who can’t understand why they have the relationship that they do with somebody, whether there is a complicated attachment or aversion, or why they hate this person or why they like this person.
Health care and healing is a second example. Imagine the impact in the realm of medicine if we understood that present difficulties may have origins in a past life, or may even have been chosen on a pre-incarnative level. Imagine both the positive and the negative outcomes that could result. On the positive side, one might be able to heal that which seems intractable. They could even gain the peace of understanding the reasons behind their suffering, and thus be able to use and learn from the carefully designed catalyst.
On the negative side, one might be denied medical attention or just even empathy because their present condition is viewed as a result of past karma or misdeed, or it’s just their responsibility because they, quote “chose their condition before being born.” For great examples, see the dark side of reincarnation teaching in the Indian caste system.
And as a final speculation or area to speculate about: crime and punishment. Imagine a defense being mounted for the accused that moves past the origins of their behavior in a troubled childhood and finds even deeper causes in past lives. Imagine discovery that what we call a crime was in a particular case, at least, actually agreed upon between the two souls prior to incarnation. There would be as many different interpretations for what reincarnation is and how it works as there are people in the world.
Don’t quote me on this, but the Hindus, for instance, see reincarnation as a sort of prison sentence, I believe, or perhaps some onerous obligation to endure until one has achieved freedom from the cycles of rebirth through enlightenment. Whereas New Age or Western understanding of reincarnation tends to see it as an opportunity to further develop the soul through successive rounds of learning.
To conclude, attempting to speculate about the impact that reincarnation would have upon our particular global society just really beggars the imagination. It would ripple out in a million unpredictable ways, producing both wonderfully positive and devastatingly negative results.
That’s my speculation. I hope that’s giving you something to chew on, JP. Back to you host.
Thank you for that. Jim, what are your thoughts?
Great job, Gary. Well, he asks, what would it mean for the average human on the planet? We’ll take the average human first. I think that’s mostly what Gary was talking about, too. For the average human on the planet, I don’t know if it would be very important at all because we live in an age where everything we see on television and in the movies and the books we read is fantastic. It’s just out of this world and that’s what really draws people’s attention. Plus, I don’t think science has as large a role to play in how people think and how they behave as we’ve been led to believe.
I remember back when we landed on the moon in 1969 that there was a survey done of people right after that and a large percentage did not believe it actually happened. They thought it was staged and that it was a hoax that happened somewhere in the Arizona desert.
There are still a lot of people who think that.
Yeah. And in the modern day, there was just recently a March of scientists in Washington, DC supporting science as though the concept of global warming haven’t already been proved by science. But, our present powers that be, and those that support our present powers that be, don’t seem to believe in global warming. It doesn’t seem to matter how much information that science puts forth to support that even though there’s been all kinds of information. I mean, if you travel to the various poles, you can see how the ice is melting.
The thing is, if you don’t want to believe something, you’re probably not going to. And I think that most of us, most average human beings, have developed a system of beliefs from an emotional basis. It’s a system of beliefs that they want to believe or something that they were raised to believe–not because their beliefs are rational, provable, or scientific.
So, I think for the average human, it’s probably not going to have a whole lot of effect. It will just be one more card in the deck of fantastic events that happen every day on my television or on the big screen. But, for people like us on the other end who are in the supposed New Age movement—people who have been considering these concepts for a long time—it will be basically a verification of what we’ve been believing.
I think the people that will be moved the most will be those who are undecided, really open minded, and open hearted, and who are looking for something better in the world. They just really want there to be something to believe in, something that’s giving more direction. Proof of reincarnation might be a turning point for them. As to what percentage of people in the world are in that category? I really don’t know. But I think that they could be really impacted in a favorable way and could begin their own spiritual journey in a conscious fashion.
We’re looking for that 100th monkey effect. Charles Eisenstein speaks about how everything we do as a person on the path of seeking unity, fellowship, and brotherhood and sisterhood with all those around us affects everybody else. So maybe scientifically-approved reincarnation will help to get a few more people who can help increase the percentage of people who are in favor of unity and inclusion—people who will love thy neighbor wherever they’re from.
So, for those folks it’ll maybe have a big impact. I’m hoping so. What do you think, Austin?
I really appreciate that answer, especially the beginning because that’s the angle that I evaluated JP’s question from. What it really got me asking was what effect does any scientific discovery have on our lives currently? And sure, there are plenty of people who attach their identity to science and will basically throw down any scientific evidence as the ultimate truth that cannot be questioned. But by and large, I think that if science were to discover the reality of an afterlife or reincarnation that it will probably be dismissed or ignored even by a lot of people in the scientific community.
So, that’s the question I ask myself: what would this look like within the scientific community if this was discovered? There are plenty of scientific studies and experiments that exist now that prove things—not necessarily an afterlife, but more what you would call paranormal. There’s plenty of scientific evidence, but people in the scientific community explicitly claim that they don’t want to integrate these things in with their current scientific paradigm.
I heard Ken Wilbur talking about the paranormal in a major scientific journal once. I wish I could cite the specific study that I’m talking about, but I can’t remember. He was basically asked if there was a scientific study that proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that something paranormal existed, would it be believed? Apparently, a majority of scientists said no because it would go against their world view that has been built up by science so far.
And so essentially, in a sense, science has become a self-perpetuating paradigm that can’t really grow. It might take something beyond the realm of science to really bring this knowledge into the forefront of our culture and society.
Something like reincarnation is approached from several different angles. Gary touched on the fact that there are plenty of people who believe in reincarnation now. Beyond that, many more people believe in an afterlife. Scientific knowledge has no influence on their beliefs. These are matters of spirituality and faith for them so they do truly believe. I don’t think that the fact that science hasn’t proven it causes them to not believe any stronger.
Do people who believe in reincarnation or an afterlife behave or act differently than those who do not? I really don’t think that anybody does act differently if they believe in an afterlife or not. You can probably find a full range of people including those who are incredibly pure, wonderful, and positive, and others who are confused, mean, or angry who all likewise fully believe that heaven exists and that they are doing what is right to get there.
JP references this movie has Robert Redford coming out. In case you’re curious, it’s called, The Discovery. It’s actually out on Netflix now. I looked it up and read a little bit about what it was about. But don’t worry, I don’t think what I’m about to say is spoiling anything. The essential theme of the movie is increase in suicide rates due to the knowledge that the afterlife might be real. People feel like death is no longer a final end, but rather an opportunity to start over. I don’t think it’s necessarily interesting, but I guess from a story perspective and it sounds like a pretty cool movie. But I don’t think the actual impact is very realistic because I doubt that suicide rates are higher among people who believe in an afterlife than people who don’t.
Gary brought up the idea of a potential lack of empathy as a result of scientifically knowing that we’ll be extending beyond this life. An instance from the movie is when somebody said that they “relocated” somebody to another life. In reality, they actually killed them. And so that’s another interesting theory to think about. Would we approach relationships with people differently if reincarnation was proven? After all, we could say that we can’t really harm them in a significant way because this life is temporary and a minuscule amount of lifetime that we will live in the eternity of lifetimes.
This is kind of a scattered reaction, but I didn’t have a lot of organized thoughts to share. Despite what I said about the scientific community, I do have one final thing to share. Somebody posted something on Bring4th about a division at the University of Virginia School of Medicine called the Division of Perceptual where they research exactly what JP is talking about, which is the existence of reincarnation and past lives—primarily through children who remember memories from past lives.
I’m going to read a little excerpt from their website because I thought it was really fascinating that this existed at a typical University and that there were scientists engaged in this as their life purpose. It says:
“founded in 1967, Dr. Ian Stevenson, the Division of Perceptual Studies, is the oldest and most productive University based research group in the world devoted exclusively to the investigation of phenomena that challenged the current physicalist brain-mind orthodoxy, including investigation of phenomena directly suggestive of postmortem survival of consciousness.
Through its research, DOPS drives to challenge this entrenched mainstream view by rigorously evaluating empirical evidence suggesting that consciousness survives death and that mind and brain are distinct and separable. As we expand our leading edge research, we believe mainstream academia will become more accepting of survival science, and that science will enlarge to take on new challenges in studying the nature of consciousness and its interaction with the physical world.
Simply put, our goal is to expand the current paradigm, because we believe that recognition of consciousness is something greater than a physically produced phenomenon is both more optimistic and more accurate than the prevailing materialist worldview.“
I was very inspired to see this. I have a rather cynical view of the University system, science, and the scientific community, but that gave me some hope. And hopefully maybe the paradigm will expand to go beyond the materialist scientific understanding. And I hope that it doesn’t necessarily have to be science. Maybe this Division of Perceptual Studies can help build a bridge between science and what we understand as spirituality for the purpose of making this information more accessible, clear, and available to people.
Those are my thoughts. Anything else from you, two?
No, nothing from me.
I have a little anecdote from one of the fellows in our meditation group. He has a ten-year-old great granddaughter who was having a conversation with his wife, her great grandmother. And they were talking about past lives.
His wife asked their granddaughter, “Well, where do you think you were, honey, before you were in this life?”
And the girl said, “Well, Mamma, I was a tree.”
His wife then said, “You were a tree? Wow, that sounds kind of fun! Maybe I was a gardener taking care of you.”
And the little girl replied, “No, Mamma, you were a tree, too.”
Yeah. The remembrance of past life memories of children, especially young children, are what this division at the University of Virginia studies. They don’t delve too much into past life hypnotic regression. I think that they actually explicitly avoid that because of the stigma it has in the scientific community. So they stick to studying children who simply remember past lives of their own volition, especially ones that remember very specific memories of who they were and their relationships with other people and how they died. There have been some really groundbreaking cases where a child knows something that they absolutely should not know, but somehow remember it in the context of them being alive and experiencing it first hand. It’s a really cool area of study, and I think that’s probably where this scientific proof might come from.
All right, let’s move on to the next question, which is meant primarily for Jim. It’s a pretty interesting one, I think. It’s sent in from Anthony via email, who writes:
“in a previous episode, Jim referred to it being a good practice to channel in the name of Jesus. He said that previously he would channel in the name of the Christ Consciousness, but later changed that to Jesus because of some experience he had.
Is Jesus not the Christ Consciousness? Why would he feel he would need to make this distinction? What was the experience he had?
Jim, take it away.
Well, first of all, we need to change the channel to challenge. I don’t channel in the name of any entity, but I do challenge any entity who wants to speak through me in the name of Jesus Christ, because we need to be able to differentiate who we’ve got on the line. A lot of people that do channel think that they can tell who they got on the line just by their vibrations. But that’s not true because there are negatively oriented entities that can mimic your positive contact and you can’t tell it. I’m sorry, you’re not that good. We have to have some way of differentiating, and that’s the way I differentiate.
I used to challenge the name of the Christ Consciousness because I really wasn’t too much of a Jesus person or a Christian at all. I was raised in the Presbyterian Church—regular type of Christianity—and it didn’t take or resonate with me very much. It was kind of like water off the duck’s back for most of my life. That changed on August 31 of 2015, which is just about three or four months after Carla made her transition.
I had been in the yard about a month earlier wondering how I could get the mumbo jumbo nonsense out of my mind. As I was working in the yard, there were these phrases or sounds or music or something going through my mind. It was just bothering me. I thought that there has got to be something better I can do with my mind. So I said, well, maybe there’s a phrase or a mantra or something that I could just chant. And all of a sudden into my mind came “Alleluia.” I have a hunch Carla may have given this to me, but I don’t know. She was classically trained as a musician and singer.
So, I just began saying “All-e-luia, All-e-luia” over and over in the yard. About 20 minutes later I had tears coming down my eyes, and I really couldn’t explain it. So I started to incorporate the Alleluia chant anytime I was not doing something I needed to use my mind for—something mindless like driving, or doing some work in the yard. I would just sing that course.
Then while I was singing “Alleluia” on the morning of the 31st of August during my morning meditation, I felt particularly inspired and I didn’t know why. So, I thought, well, let’s ask the Creator to come into our heart to see if we can have an experience of unity with a Creator. But nothing happened. So, I thought, well, let’s ask Jesus to come into our heart. All of a sudden, my chest started beating, my heart started opening, and my tears started flowing down my cheeks. And for the next ten minutes I was totally absorbed in the feeling of the love of Jesus Christ.
I told a friend of mine, Morris, who has a couple of siblings, one brother and one sister, who are both very fundamental Christians. He said, “Well, you know, my brother and sister, and most fundamental Christians, would say that you were born again.”
I said, “Well, you know, that’s what it feels like. It feels like I’ve been born again because I don’t look at things as the way I used to. I love everybody. I love everything. I talk to everything because it’s the Creator.”
From that point on, I decided that it would make sense for me to challenge any entity who wished to speak through me in a channeling session in the name of Jesus, who is the Christ. And that’s been the way I’ve done it since. I got that from Carla who did it for her whole life. She was a Christian from the age of two on.
The difference between Jesus and Christ Consciousness is that Jesus is the person who attained Christ Consciousness. Christ Consciousness is more like an office or a level of consciousness. It’s a way that a lot of mystics throughout all time on the planet have been able to experience the unity with all of the Creation. So, before I had the experience with Jesus, I challenged in the name of Christ Consciousness because that was, to me at the time, the most powerful way I could imagine challenging. It was something I could believe in, and strive for. It was something I had not accomplished, but something I valued very much. So that was why I used Christ Consciousness then. But I use Jesus now, Jesus the Christ, because I have had an experience with Jesus that just changed my life.
Do you guys have any comments? Questions?
No. I just appreciated listening to that story. Thank you.
Yes, thank you for sharing that. I have a thought I’d like to share. I don’t know if you’d really have any insight on it, though. Having been raised without spirituality in general, I’ve always been curious about the idea of a guru, Messiah, or an individual who serves as an intermediary or connection to the Creator. This is interesting to me because my spirituality is mostly based upon the Law of One, which is what really got me into spirituality to begin with. Spiritual leaders like gurus are really common in mysticism and spirituality as far as I understand—in the East especially. Many seekers can have a lot of devotion for a specific person or a guru whom they believe will help them to achieve different states of consciousness and awareness after their death.
I’m wondering if you have any insight onto the reason for Jesus making a connection with you, versus the Creator making a connection with you. What is specifically special about the individual Jesus? Do you have any insight at all into that?
Well, I really can’t tell you why it worked when it did, and why it didn’t work for 68 years before that. I have a feeling—just a feeling that could be wrong—that each of us has a path of illumination that we’ve set out for ourselves before the incarnation. We’ve chosen the means by which it will be accomplished—the entities, concepts, and information that will spur us on to seek in such a way that will eventually help us find what we’re looking for—whether it’s Confucianism or Lao Tzu or Buddhism or Islam or Christianity or whatever. It doesn’t really matter which paths we have chosen to take. There have been illuminated mystics and so-called Saviors of the world in all of these religions. Katama, the Buddha, Lao Tzu, and Jesus all had disciples, but only a handful of any of the disciples during their lives were able to achieve what their Masters had achieved, and perhaps not even in the depths or the heights or the breadth that was achieved by the Master. But, they had been able to achieve a union with the Creator and an experience of the Creator.
The source that I look to most frequently for this kind of information is Joel Goldsmith. In his book, The Art of Meditation, he speaks about these great Masters throughout time and how they have not been able to reproduce their learning and their experience with very many of their followers. Frequently though, as you say, after they have passed from this incarnation, they are available to other followers throughout the centuries that follow them and have been able to be of assistance in some measure there. But it has not happened on a planetary scale.
And even back in 1956, when Joe Goldsmith wrote, The Art of Meditation, he was thinking at that time that if there were just a few hundred souls on the planet who could demonstrate the fully experienced presence of the one infinite Creator, that might be enough to save the entire planet. Now, I don’t know if that’s true, but I know that we’ve come a long way and we’re still hoping for something to help turn the tide to help the harvest on planet Earth to be more than the little bit it looks like right now it’ll be.
So that’s all I’ve got to say about that. I’m sorry, it wasn’t too illuminating.
No, I thought that was pretty interesting and relevant. Anything else from you, Gary?
Alright. Well, I think we’re at the end of our show here. Any final words for our listeners, Jim?
Yeah. We really appreciate you listening. I mean, it makes us feel good to know that we might be able to help somebody just by sharing what our thoughts and feelings are. All of you help us just by being out there and drawing these thoughts and feelings out from us. We thank you so much. We especially thank you for questions.
Now, I’ve got some homework for you guys. When you’re out in public the next time, try smiling at everybody that you see and maybe even saying “hi.” Maybe you can even go that extra step and surround them with love, and just see what happens.
We love you guys. Have a great week.
I was not informed there would be homework in this course. [laughs]
You have been listening to L/L Research’s biweekly podcast, In the Now. If you have enjoyed this show, please visit our websites: www.llresearch.org and Bring4th.org. Thank you so much for listening, and for supporting this podcast with your questions. Also, we want to say a special thank you to JP and to Anthony for sending us questions featured in this episode.
If you’d like to hear us ramble on about a particular topic, please read the instructions on our page at www.llresearch.org/podcast. New episodes are published to the archive website every other Wednesday afternoon. Have a wonderful couple of weeks and we will talk with you then.