Our question today deals with the idea of pre-incarnative planning and people experiencing the catalyst they need to learn their personal lessons. How can we reconcile the idea that people experience what they need for their personal growth with our desire to serve and relieve other souls of their suffering? Is there a line between allowing people to learn their lessons versus attempting to relieve a person of their suffering?

(Jim channeling)

I am Hatonn and come in the name of Jesus, the Christ, to speak through this instrument and we are most grateful to be invited by your group this afternoon.

We have been chosen to respond to this query, for it is one which deals with our specialty, which is the quality that you call love—unconditional and all compassionate love. We feel that this is a most salient query, for it is one which each of you deals in a daily fashion with all those about you; for, my friends, each of you is one which has pre-incarnative choices, and which has made these choices in order to learn certain lessons within the life experience.

There are, for all entities, confusions that occur during the life experience that make the perception of the pre-incarnative choices a difficult feat, for there is much that distracts even the serious seeker from the seeking, much which seems at odds with previous experience, much which needs to be processed in a conscious fashion and then taken to the meditative state in order that it might be seated there as an experience which has been learned and is now available for future use.

Many entities have programed situations which are most difficult to consider experiencing in a conscious fashion in the third-density illusion. There are various reasons why entities may choose to suffer, as you would say, to place themselves in a situation which seems to cause excessive pain physically, emotionally, mentally, and perhaps even spiritually.

Why would entities do such a thing as this—to bring upon themselves that which one would wish to avoid? Is not happiness the goal of your illusion? No, my friends, happiness is not the goal of your illusion. Learning to love under all possible circumstances is indeed the goal which each of you seeks. This is not to say that one cannot feel happy, or joy, and still be upon the spiritual path. It is that the happiness is not that which you seek primarily. Happiness may be an outgrowth of your seeking.

So when you look upon those entities about you who experience what you would call the suffering, you know, within your own being (if you are conscious of the process of pre-incarnative choices) that there is a reason for such suffering. Perhaps the entity wishes to learn endurance. Perhaps the entity wishes to learn strength. Perhaps the entity wishes to empathize with others about it who suffer that it might partake in the strengthening of the inner resolve to continue forward into the light in spite of the suffering, the pain, the discomfort, the confusion. Thus, when you look at an entity that is suffering and you see yourself desiring to be of service to it, it is most appropriate to add that which you can to the relieving of the suffering, for that is your part in this situation. Your part is not to try to figure out why the entity suffers, what the lessons could be. Your part is to look upon this entity as one which you may be able to aid, that may play a part in your own growth in providing the service that you feel is potentially helpful in relieving the suffering.

There are many, many entities upon your planet who suffer. It was mentioned that many groups suffer, that many of the, as you say, immigrants to the western worlds now are suffering on a level that is almost unimaginable to any individual who would carefully consider their plight.

At this time we would transfer this contact to the one known as Steve for further elaboration upon this point. We are those of Hatonn.

(Steve channeling)

I am Hatonn, and am with this instrument. We would begin by thanking this instrument for first of all challenging us as is its wont, and secondly for being receptive to our energies which are, to this instrument, something unexpected and, we might say, not entirely comfortable, as this instrument has in the past struggled somewhat to find a level of comfort in bringing forth our words, and bringing forth the energy that resides within these words, for we are of a vibratory signature, shall we say, which is challenging for this instrument to carry. The ability, however, to open the heart to an energy which is not of a great deal of comfort is, in fact, a part of the process of learning to be a channel to sources of information, and sources of love offering that are a portion of the vast and diverse creation.

We come, therefore, unexpectedly to this channel, as indeed there are many events, many experiences which come to you unexpectedly and, we might say, in a fashion that is less than entirely welcome. When this kind of experience is at hand, it can be the source of what you call suffering.

Each here has learned over the course of a lifetime to deal with personal suffering, and to find a place within the system of processing of personal experience to deal with that suffering which is of a personal nature. However, it can be also a part of the life experience and, we would say, the life programming, to be confronted with a form of suffering which is not one’s own; and one can find oneself in relation to this suffering to be quite without the sort of resources that one has learned to develop in dealing with the suffering that is one’s own.

It is particularly heartbreaking to gaze upon the suffering of another when one feels that one cannot do anything in relation to that suffering; when one cannot take upon one’s self the full burden of the suffering as one might be inclined to do. All that one can do is to look on in sympathy and compassion, and to open one’s heart in such a way that if an opportunity to serve should afford itself, one is at the ready.

Now, this can be a tricky matter because the ability to discern when it is appropriate to come forth with an offer that one perceives might help to alleviate the suffering of another can be deceptive; it can be deceptive to feel one is called to serve where no actual service can be meaningfully offered. One can attempt to serve in such a way that it seems to the other that one is forcing the self upon them.

Now, in many of your religious systems there is an acknowledgement of the centrality of suffering to the human condition, and in these systems there can be behaviors or activities or patterns of assistance that are taught as a portion of the dogma, shall we say, which the religion has embraced; and it can seem—even to a matter of great certainty to the one who attempts to aid—that the solution to suffering is quite clear and merely requires the application of known remedies. A similar circumstance not in your religious teachings but in the allopathic healing professions can be found when a doctor, a nurse, a pharmacist knows just the right specific to apply to just the right ailment.

These applications are recommended without full awareness of the spiritual circumstances of the one to be aided. That is to say, these healing protocols or sources of alleviation or sources of comfort can very easily reflect more the expectations of the one who desires to serve than the one in need of service.

Now it can also can happen that the one in need of service can be so much at their wit’s end, shall we say, that any port in the storm seems to be welcome, or, to invoke another metaphor, the apparently helpless suffering self can be prepared to grasp at straws.

So, straws are indeed offered and prove again and again to be of little avail, at which point one might ask, “What is it all about? Has it all been worth the effort?” How is one ever to know what service befits a circumstance which very likely is so complicated, which very likely is so deeply resonant at levels unseen, that no remedy one has ready can suffice in supplying what is needed. Under these conditions it is very easy to step back and to say, “Well, perhaps after all, the suffering is needed; perhaps after all, the suffering is precisely what the doctor ordered,” so to speak, and that the one who suffers must have done something or been something such that the suffering befits the personal circumstance.

That, too, however, might well be an over-reaction, and so one finds that one is torn between the perpetual give-and-take between the too much of what one already knows, and the too little of one cannot possibly know.

And, my friends, we would say that this is the dilemma of all those who have sought to help those who call for help throughout the whole length and breadth of the creation from time immemorial. We, too, find that when we are called to help that it is most difficult to discern exactly where the help might be most optimally offered. It is difficult to discern exactly what the nature of the help needs to be. Is it help which would alleviate the difficulties of an immediate circumstance? If the circumstance is sufficiently obvious in the character of its need, we would suggest that the answer must be yes. To the hungry it is appropriate to offer food; to the cold it is appropriate to offer shelter; to the agonizing one who finds no spiritual sustenance on hand, it is appropriate to offer what spiritual substance one finds available to be offered. And yet, one never really knows what the one who needs, the one who reaches out, is in need of, or is reaching for.

At this point, it is useful for the one who would offer aid to take a small step back, shall we say, and to ask whether in the innermost heart of the one proposing to aid, there are resources previously unknown but which, in the circumstance at hand, seem to bubble up to the surface, seem to announce themselves in those tender places of the heart where the heartstrings may be tugged; where there is an actual experience of the creation in its creative moment of reaching out in love to one who asks simply for love. For in truth it has been our experience that love is the greatest gift that one may give, and that love is the most healing energy abroad in this universe, and that where love abounds, no error truly can be made.

Now, having said that, we will say also, that the mere act of opening the heart in love to another will not automatically override all suffering. What it does do, however, is to allow one who wishes to offer service to share in that suffering, to let a little bit of that suffering to be one’s own; to feel within one’s own person the drawing inward of these energies of the other self that are distraught, that are in a disorganized condition; and to feel within one’s own heart the ability to absorb this tidbit of chaos, if you will, to absorb this pain, to let the pain have its sway in an alternate frame of reference [which is], if you will, capable of absorbing it, capable of drawing it inward, capable of digesting it, capable of transmuting it to that which is no longer pain, that which is no longer distraught, that which is no longer chaotic but rather is of the order of love.

One finds at that moment that love itself is not what one thought it was, but more. That within the heart of love there is to be found a resource resonant with the deepest sorrow, a resource in relation to which the deepest sorrow may find its joy.

Now, one does well, my friends, to be open to the sorrows of others to the extent that one is able to absorb these sorrows without being overwhelmed. One does well to know the limits of one’s capacity to absorb the pain of another. Secondly, we would say that one does well to acknowledge that the freewill of the other is never something to be abrogated, and thus, if the other does not wish to share that suffering—which you, in your love, would so gladly absorb—that this too must be respected, that it must be allowed to follow its own course, its own destiny to that conclusion which feels right to the one whose suffering it is.

We find that many times in your life experience and in the history of the interactions among your peoples that there have been well meaning souls who earnestly and honestly have devised systems of remediation for the suffering of others, and made these available to others only to discover that these gifts are not welcome. All too often it has occurred that those who have sincerely made great efforts on behalf of their fellow human beings only to discover that these efforts are not welcome, have therefore recoiled in hurt, recoiled in anger, recoiled in despair, and have felt that if their gifts are thus to be despised, that they will simply withhold their gifts altogether and withdraw and allow the suffering, allow the weeping, the wailing, and the gnashing of teeth to be the order of the day. “They must then deserve their fate,” it is said in the heart, “since they have not been able to recognize the great gift of the love which I have made available for them.”

This, my friends, if it should come to pass, should be an indication to you that it is you that has overstepped the mark. Very often the mark is overstepped with the greatest of intention, but that intention, my friends, is something that is not set once and for all time, but must be continually revisited with respect to its efficacy, with respect to the core resonance of its meaning, with respect to the bridge that it sets up with regard to the other to whom one is reaching out.

That is a most precarious bridge, my friends. It is a bridge that is here today and gone tomorrow, and so one finds that the patterns of aid one has put on offer for the young is no longer welcome for the old, that what one has discovered works for some, does not work for others. Sometimes one is asked for something today that tomorrow will be thrown back in anger in one’s face. The challenge under these circumstances is to find a place within the desire to be of service that is sufficient unto itself to the point that one does not take a rejection too much to heart, but in all humility allows one’s service to adapt to the changing circumstances that call it forth from one.

Sometimes one is outgoing, other times one does well to withdraw; the forthcoming; the withdrawing; the forthcoming again, are part of a rhythm in which one who seeks to help is at the ready to be of help, and in the next moment finds perhaps one’s self to be the one in need of help. To have the humility to allow one’s self to be the one who is helped is the other side of the coin, so to speak, of the same energy exchange protocol that is in play when one reaches out to others to be helpful to them. Just as one does not wish to be seen as one utterly needy, one can well suppose that the one perceived to be in need also does not wish to be perceived as utterly needy. There needs to be a kind of equivalence in the service on offer, and so, when one reaches out the hand in generous offering of one’s own energy, one does well to understand that the outreached hand is also there to receive. To give, to receive, are two sides of the same gesture, and the more that the one to whom proposes to give is given to understand that, and can see the reciprocity of the giving, the more likely it is that the gift will be gladly received.

We thank those here for the opportunity you have afforded us to give you this gift and to give us the gift of that service of your seeking which we find greatly inspirational. We are those of Hatonn, and would, at this time leave this instrument and return to the one known as Jim to find if there are further questions upon the minds of those here present. We leave you in love and light. Adonai, my friends, Adonai.

(Jim channeling)

I am Hatonn and greet each again in love and light through this instrument. At this time we would ask if there might be any further queries to which we may speak.

I have a question about the healing of the physical body. I’m wondering if it is one of the following options, or a combination of these options. Does the healing of the physical body take place primarily on a metaphysical level after the catalyst that we are processing has been dealt with? Or do the medicines and other physical interventions that we use help heal the physical body, help heal the body physically? Or are these physical interventions symbols of our desire to heal? Or is it perhaps a combination of these processes?

I am Hatonn and am aware of your query, my sister. We find that in the healing process we look upon the body as the creature of the mind that has expressed symptoms that you may call disease or distortions that exist because the mind itself has not been able to successfully process catalyst. When the mind has not achieved this processing of catalyst, then it is that the catalyst is given to the body complex in a symbolic form with the hope that this form of dis-ease, as you would call it, may attract the attention of the mind to notice this catalyst in another form because it was missed the first time around, shall we say.

Thus, when there is the attempt at the healing that is, what you would call, successful, it may be seen that this is a metaphysical phenomenon in which the one offering the healing service aids the one to be healed by interrupting what you would call the red-violet ray of the combination of these energy centers which holds in place whatever degree of disease or health is extant for this entity.

When this red/violet ray is interrupted, then the entity itself, in cooperation with its higher self, provides the healing so that this new configuration of mind, body and spirit may then be reflected in the reinsertion, shall we say, of the red/violet ray which holds the new configuration as firmly in place as was the old one held. Thus, when the one known as Jesus would accomplish the healing of those brought before it, he would say that they had been healed by their faith. This is another way of saying the same thing. 1

Is there another query, my sister?

Well I’d like to follow up on that. As an example in a situation where there is not a healer and a person needing healing, but just, for instance, myself, if I’m feeling a need for healing and I take vitamins, or I do something on the physical level that results in healing, has that happened on a physical level and a metaphysical level, or did that happen in the physical part of my body?

I am Hatonn, and am aware of your query, my sister. The healing in all cases occurs first within the metaphysical realms, for these have, shall we say, influence over the lower representations of the entity, that being the physical body. So when there is a healing to be experienced, it would then first occur upon the metaphysical level, then would be reflected upon the physical level so that one could accurately say that the healing had occurred upon both levels.

Is there a further query, my sister?

So do the things that a person would do such as taking a medicine or some sort of action on the physical level—are those symbolic to that person that then is reflected in the metaphysical healing?

I am Hatonn and am aware of your query, my sister. There is a symbolism involved, however, we must also clarify by suggesting that there are various substances that can be used in the healing of the physical body that would work on the physical body, whereas other substances would not work, even if there was the metaphysical healing first. However, the metaphysical healing is that which must come first. It is most helpful to use substances that when this metaphysical healing has occurred are also helpful to the physical body.

Is there another query, my sister?

I think I’m just going to have to think on that. Thank you for your help.

I am Hatonn. We thank you, my sister. Is there another query at this time?

We had a query sent in from a good friend, Misha. She was reading a novel and in this novel there was a person on his way to being tortured to death, but his life was spared by a merciful co-entity who killed him on his way to being tortured to death, thus sparing him that undesirable fate. So a question sprung from that: What effect does it have upon the polarity of an entity to euthanize another? Presuming that the other self has willingly and clear-headedly requested this service?

I am Hatonn, and am aware of your query my brother. The intention of the action is that which is of most importance with any action. When there is the attempt to serve, as you have mentioned, in a manner which removes the life force from the entity who is about to be tortured and suffer a great deal until it meets its own end, shall we say, that is a service to provide as requested the euthanization of the entity; for there is more to such an experience than is easily observed within the incarnational experience, for most entities have programmed before the incarnation the exact means by which the passing through the doors of death shall be experienced. There are agreements made with those who may be the torturers, with those who may be the euthanizers, with those who may be, shall we say, standing in the shadows observing. There are lessons to be learned in each instance so that it is almost impossible to say without knowledge of pre-incarnative choices what exactly is occurring when one observes an entity helping another entity by actually killing that entity. The actual act of the killing is not what is of most importance—it is the intention and the cooperation upon a subconscious level with those choices made pre-incarnatively.

Is there another query, my brother?

I have one, if I may. I wonder if you could speak to most effective way of dealing with the frustration or the sense of helplessness that comes when confronted with the suffering of another whom one cannot help?

I am Hatonn, and am aware of your query, my brother. In this situation we must again suggest that the choices are not made just within the incarnation, and are not made usually upon the conscious level, but are those which echo from before the incarnation and have their effect at the time of the experience as was hoped before the incarnation.

Perhaps the entity seeing such suffering without the ability to affect it wished to empathize with one who suffered, as this is yet an unexperienced phenomenon to the one who witnessed the suffering. Perhaps the desire is to so feel the pain of another—that there is a greater degree of love for that other and perhaps for all others in general—generated within the heart, the mind, and the spirit of the one witnessing the suffering. Perhaps there is for the one suffering a certain kind of relief or sense of being appreciated and loved when it knows that another loves it enough to witness the suffering and to be with it in the suffering and to provide companionship.

Though the suffering cannot be ameliorated, the companionship can be offered, the love can be given, and the experience of a comradeship which has known great trials is shared; and upon the deeper level of both entities there is the satisfaction of knowing that there was a united effort put forward in that experience which had no hope of physical third-dimensional resolution in any convenient sense, shall we say, in any final triumph of suffering being vanquished.

Is there another query, my brother?

No, thank you. That was really helpful.

I am Hatonn, and we thank you, my brother.

Is there another query at this time?

A question comes in from a fellow named S who writes: “My question is about the practice of sun gazing and the way I feel inspired to practice this for longer periods. What is the mechanism of sun gazing and why or how does sun gazing help us to become more open as a channel for universal love?”

I am Hatonn and we must admit that we do not know the answer to this question, for we are unaware of the benefit of such an experience. We apologize for our lack of information but we would not suggest such a practice.

Is there a further query, my brother?

No, thank you.

I am Hatonn and we thank you. Is there a further query at this time?

I wouldn’t mind asking one more question as a follow-up to my earlier question. Is physical healing sometimes a delay to the metaphysical healing, and is that maybe where the physical interventions come in to manifest the metaphysical healing?

I am Hatonn, and we believe that we understand your query. If we are incorrect, please inform us of such. The physical healing not occurring when there is a metaphysical healing seems to us to be that which would suggest the metaphysical healing was not completely successful, for when there is the healing upon the higher levels of the entity’s being, the lower levels of the entity are usually quite readily able to respond in kind and reflect that healing. When there is no physical healing, and the one observing the healing or the one experiencing the hoped-for healing still exhibits the diseased or deformation, one may consider the possibilities of further lessons to be learned, for all movement away from total healing and total health are examples or symbols of the healing which yet remains to be accomplished.

Is there a further query that you would care to offer us upon this topic.

I guess I’m wondering what the physical interventions that we might have the medicines or food, exercise, things like that, for our healing, what purpose that serves if the healing takes place both on physical and metaphysical levels at the same time.

I am Hatonn and we believe that we have a better grasp of your query and we shall attempt again to respond. The physical medicines or foods or applications of remedies may be seen as symbolic for the metaphysical healing, however, the choice of the medicines or foods is one which must be made with the knowledge of how the body may be aided by these applications of physical materials when there is a healing that is desired. For example, one would not give water, shall we say, to a body which needed physical foodstuffs as a portion of the healing. There is the choice of the physical materials, the medicines or the foods that is also helpful to promote the representation of the healing in the body that has occurred upon the metaphysical level. Is there a further query, my sister?

No, no, thank you very much.

I am Hatonn, and we thank you once again, my sister.

Is there another query at this time?

Yes, Hatonn. The instrument, the one known as Austin, and myself convene on a bi-weekly basis to offer a podcast we call In the Now. We do our best to consider questions from spiritual seekers, questions that might appear in a venue such as the one we now experience. We [dig in], organize and synthesize our thoughts, and probably rely a bit on intuition as well. The answers, or rather, replies we generate sometimes surprise us. We, of course, run up against our own limitations but we do our best to share the fruit of our personal study and our journey. What is the difference, in terms of content, between what we do in the podcast and this channeling that we undertake now?

I am Hatonn and am aware of your query, my brother. The difference is that though you are channeling yourself in that situation, it is a portion of your subconscious mind which gives you information of which you were previously not aware and felt that you had made a discovery as you were responding to a query which was the, shall we say, initiator of the search into both the conscious and the subconscious levels of your own mind. In these channelings in which we now partake, we are not portions of your subconscious mind, but may be considered external to it through we are all one in truth.

Is there another query?

So did you just say that when we generate replies in the podcast venue, that we are limited by the limitations of our own knowledge and understanding, even if that is subconscious knowledge and understanding?

I am Hatonn, and am again willing to respond to this query by suggesting that you have stated a correct perception, however, we would add one portion to it. You are not necessarily limited by your own subconscious mind; you have connections to many sources of information which you have across in your previous experiences which may lay, shall we say, unused or unnoticed until there is a reason for them to have a light shined upon them. That light is your conscious mind seeking within as a means of responding to queries which you have entertained in a conscious fashion. Yet, if you are dedicated to being of service to those who ask the queries, you reach within your own self that which is conscious and that which is subconscious for whatever information might be helpful in response to the queries asked. This level of your own being is, itself, without limit, however, it is a portion of your own self and not a portion of any other entity such as are we.

Is there another query, my brother?

That helps clarify it and makes sense. Thank you very much. The follow-up query is then, does the instrument or the group who undertakes the channeling, experience an equivalent or similar limitation in knowledge, or is the channeling group or instrument able to, and open to, receive a broader scope of information that may be unknown to the instrument or the group by virtue of the channeling?

I am Hatonn and am aware of your query, my brother. The instrument partaking in the channeling process begins at a certain level of experience, shall we say. As the experience is gained, there is more and more of that which comes through the instrument that is unknown in a conscious fashion, in some cases, even the subconscious fashion, to the instrument. It is a matter of the experience plus, shall we say, the foolhardiness or willingness of the instrument to make a fool of itself by opening to information which it is unaware of, and allowing that information to move through it without analysis as to where it came from or whether it makes sense.

Is there a further query, my brother?

So the instrument may receive or channel information which is unknown to it, and that happens as a function of its ability to be foolhardy, as it were, or as Carla would say, “put one’s ass over the line”?

The genesis of this series of questions began because of the question about sun gazing. It confounded me that you, Hatonn, a social memory complex, could not speak on that question, and my supposition was that it was due to the limitations of the instrument and not so much your own limitation of knowledge. If you could speak to that question, please.

I am Hatonn and am aware of your query, my brother. Our reluctance to speak and to suggest that we did not know the answer to the query was because we do not know of any real value to such an experience and would not recommend it.

Is there a final query at this time?

Not from me, thank you so much, Hatonn.

I am Hatonn and as it appears that we have exhausted the queries for this session of working, we would offer our thanks to each entity present for you offer us a great service in asking us to join you in your circle of seeking. We hope that you will look at those words that we have given, consider them, and take those which have value to you, and leave behind those which do not. We do not wish to be a stumbling block to any. We wish to be of service to those who ask our service and we offer it humbly. We know that each present is a serious seeker of truth, and can make evaluations for him or herself as necessary. We rejoice at your own seeking. We appreciate the opportunity to offer ourselves this afternoon in your circle of seeking. We have not spoken to this group for a great period of time. It was our desire to be able to exercise both instruments as a member of the principle of those of Q’uo. We are of the fourth-density vibration of love, and always are present in that vibration and those of Q’uo offer themselves from the fifth density of wisdom. 2 We thank you for your patience with us, for your invitation to us, and at this time we shall leave each in the love and in the light of the One Infinite Creator. Go in peace, my friends, Adonai.

  1. Ra describes this protective “violet/red-ray” vibratory shield or shell in #57.12, and in:

    This entity requesting such healing will then open the armor of the overall violet/red-ray protective vibratory shield. Thus the inner vibratory fields, from center to center in mind, body, and spirit, may be interrupted and adjusted momentarily, thus offering the one to be healed the opportunity to choose a less distorted inner complex of energy fields and vibratory relationships.

  2. Q’uo is a principle which is a blending of the vibrations of Hatonn of the fourth density, Latwii of the fifth, and Ra of the sixth, with Latwii serving as the spokesperson, you might say, for the group.